[00:00:02]
>> WELL, I GUESS, WE'LL JUST DEAL WITH THE MONITORS IF IT BECOMES A PROBLEM.
[1. Call to Order NOTICE OF OPTION TO RECESS INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION Pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.02, notice is hereby given to the members of the Heritage Preservation Commission and to the general public that, at this regular meeting, the Heritage Preservation Commission may vote to go into executive session, which will not be open to the public, for legal advice and discussion with the City’s attorneys for legal advice on any item listed on the following agenda, pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.03(A)(3).]
WELCOME TO THIS MAY 15TH, 2024 MEETING OF THE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION AT 4:00 PM.WE WILL GET STARTED WITH OUR ROLL CALL.
>> WE WILL NOW MOVE ON TO OUR LAND ACKNOWLEDGMENT.
[3. LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT The Heritage Preservation Commission humbly acknowledges the ancestral homelands of this area’s Indigenous nations and original stewards. These lands, still inhabited by Native descendants, border mountains sacred to Indigenous peoples. We honor them, their legacies, their traditions, and their continued contributions. We celebrate their past, present, and future generations who will forever know this place as home.]
DO I HAVE ANY VOLUNTEERS FROM A COMMISSION MEMBER WHO WOULD LIKE TO READ THE LAND ACKNOWLEDGMENT?>> ANYONE NOT READ IT IN A WHILE? COMMISSIONER HORN. THANK YOU.
>> THE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION HUMBLY ACKNOWLEDGES THE ANCESTRAL HOMELANDS OF THE AREA'S INDIGENOUS NATIONS AND ORIGINAL STEWARDS.
THESE LANDS, STILL INHABITED BY NATIVE DESCENDANTS, BORDER MOUNTAIN SACRED TO INDIGENOUS PEOPLES.
WE HONOR THEM, THEIR LEGACIES, THEIR TRADITIONS, AND THEIR CONTINUED CONTRIBUTIONS.
WE CELEBRATE THEIR PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE GENERATIONS WHO WILL FOREVER KNOW THIS PLACE AS HOME.
>> WE WILL NOW MOVE ON TO PUBLIC COMMENT.
ARE THERE ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO HAVE COMMENT ON THAT ITEM NOT ON THE AGENDA? WE WILL MOVE ON TO PUBLIC HEARING.
ITEM 1, THE GIO VALE HOME IMPROVEMENT PROJECT, IF I'M PRONOUNCING THAT CORRECTLY.
DO WE HAVE TO [OVERLAPPING] OH, WAIT. NO. SORRY.
>> I WAS WRONG. WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE APPROVAL OF
[5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Approve the minutes of the April 17, 2024 Heritage Preservation Commission meeting.]
THE MINUTES DEFIBN CORRECTIONS THAT YOU'D LIKE FOR THE RECORD.I'M NOT GOING TO PRETEND THAT I DON'T.
>> SO I THINK IF IT'S BASIC LIKE GRAMMAR AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WE CAN JUST PASS THAT OFF, BUT IF THEY'RE LARGER OR NOT PASS IT OFF, BUT, LIKE, HAND IT OVER TO WHOEVER IS RECORDING THOSE.
AND THEN IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT ANY LARGER PROBLEMS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED, WE CAN DO THAT MAYBE IN PERSON.
>> AND JUST A REMINDER, MEETING MINUTE CLARIFICATIONS NEED TO BE THINGS THAT WERE DISCUSSED.
IT CAN'T BE THAT YOU WANT CLARIFICATION, BASED ON YOUR TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE, IT HAS TO BE BECAUSE IT WAS DISCUSSED AND YOU'RE CLARIFYING THE RECORD.
>> WE'LL START WITH COMMISSIONER WESTHEIMER.
>> MICHELLE, SO, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT, BUT UNDER THE DISCUSSION OF 101 NORTH LAU.
IT SAYS, CERTAINLY IS POST WORLD WAR II, THAT STARLIGHT BOOKS BUILDING, BUT I THINK IT'S PRE WORLD WAR I.
SO I THINK THAT'S A MISTAKE. IS THAT ALLOWED?
>> WHAT WAS SAID IN THE MEETING? IT NEEDS TO BE A REFLECTION OF WHAT WAS DISCUSSED.
>> BUT IF IT'S AN ERROR, LIKE IF WHAT WAS RECORDED AS BEING SAID IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WAS SAID?
I WOULD ACTUALLY WANT TO TALK TO THE CLERK ABOUT WHETHER WE CLARIFY THAT, BUT THAT'S WHAT WAS DISCUSSED SHOULD BE THE REFLECTION OF WHAT'S IN THE MINUTES.
>> SO THEREFORE, IF IT WAS SAID THAT IT WAS WORLD WAR II IN THE MEETING AND STAND BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WAS DISCUSSED.
>> AND IT SHOULD BE CORRECTED IN THAT MEETING.
>> SO WE HAVE TO GO BACK AND WATCH THE MEETING AGAIN AS WE READ THE MINUTES?
>> IF YOU WOULD LIKE US TO CONFIRM WHAT WAS ACTUALLY SAID, WE CAN DO THAT, BUT WE CAN'T JUST MAKE THE CHANGE BECAUSE IF IT WAS SAID, WE'RE HAPPY TO GO BACK AND WATCH IT AND LISTEN TO THE RECORDING AND MAKE SURE THAT'S WHAT WAS SAID.
BUT IT NEEDS TO BE A REFLECTION OF WHAT WAS SAID.
>> SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF IT'S SOMETHING DUFFY SAID AND COMMISSIONER WESTHEIMER SAID AND SHE KNOWS IT'S INCORRECT, THEN THAT WOULD BE A CORRECTION FOR THE MINUTES.
>> CORRECT. YES. AND TYPICALLY, THAT'S WHAT YOU'LL SEE IS IF THE MINUTES SAID COMMISSIONER WESTHEIMER SAID IT WAS POST WORD WAR II HOUSING, BUT SHE KNOWS SHE SAID IT WAS POST WORD WAR I, THEN SHE COULD MAKE THAT.
BUT IF SOMEBODY ELSE SAID IT AND WE'RE CORRECTING THEM, THAT'S NOT A REFLECTION OF THE MINUTES.
THAT'S NOT WHAT WAS DISCUSSED.
AND UNFORTUNATELY, SOMETIMES THE MINUTES AREN'T FACTUALLY ACCURATE BECAUSE SOMETIMES PEOPLE AREN'T CORRECT IN WHAT THEY SAY.
>> COMMISSIONER MASTER TRAVEN. IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THAT IS AN ERROR, WE CAN LOOK INTO IT.
>> I HAVE NO IDEA. I'M NOT GOING TO GO BACK AND LISTEN TO THE MEETING AGAIN.
>> I THINK THEY WERE SAYING THAT THEY WOULD GO LOOK AT THE MEETING AGAIN.
[00:05:03]
>> STAFF IS HAPPY TO. WE WILL DO THAT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] ANOTHER HAVE A QUESTION.
>> SO IF THAT'S THE CASE AND SAY THE DATE IS REALLY OFTEN AND YOU WANT TO REFLECT THAT, CAN THERE BE A NOTE MADE AT THE BOTTOM? NOTE THAT THE ACTUAL DATE OF THE HOUSES ARE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
INSTEAD OF CORRECTION TO WHAT WAS SAID.
>> ALYCIA, I APPRECIATE THE QUESTION.
HOW IS THE BEST TO CLARIFY THAT? WHETHER IT'S CLARIFYING IT IN ANOTHER MEETING IN THE NEXT MEETING, WE COULD CLARIFY IT IN THIS MEETING ONCE WE UNDERSTAND WHETHER THE NOTES WERE WRONG OR IT WAS WHAT WAS SAID WAS FACTUALLY INCORRECT, THEN I BELIEVE THAT THE BEST WAY TO CORRECT THAT WOULD BE TO CLARIFY IT IN THE NEXT MEETING AND PUT THAT ON THE RECORD.
>> YES, BECAUSE ALL OF OUR CORRECTIONS ON THE MINUTES ARE IN THE MINUTES.
SO YOU COULD SAY THIS SAYS WORLD WAR II.
I JUST WANTED ON THE RECORD THAT IT WOULD BE PRE WORLD WAR I, AND THEN THAT WOULD BE REFLECTED IN THIS WEEK'S MINUTES.
BUT IT WOULDN'T BE CORRECTED ON LAST WEEK'S.
AND IS THERE A WAY TO TURN DOWN THE VOLUME ON THAT? IT'S VERY LOUD.
>> I THINK MINE'S A FACTUAL ONE, I THINK IT'S A TYPO THAT I CAN JUST SEND.
AND COMMISSIONER BUCKHAM? [BACKGROUND] [LAUGHTER] SHE'S NOT GLOWING. COMMISSIONER BUCKHAM DID YOU HAVE EDITS FOR THE MINUTES? I DON'T WANT TO MOVE ON BECAUSE SHE SAID THAT SHE DID? [NOISE].
>> IT LOOKS LIKE SHE FELL OFF, SHE'S BEING READMITTED.
>> SORRY, I WENT TO UNMUTE MYSELF AND DID SOMETHING ELSE INSTEAD.
>> MIND ME? JUST A COUPLE OF PHRASES THAT I THINK ARE INCORRECT.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO DISCUSS?
>> MAYBE [OVERLAPPING] AN EXAMPLE.
>> SO LIKE ONE IS I HAVE ON PAGE 6.
IT SAYS, "WE ALSO HAVE THE BEAD ON WHERE TO ACQUIRE MORE OF THE STONE." I THINK IT WAS BEAT. NOT BEAD.
AND ON PAGE 8, IT SAYS THE SUBMISSION HAD BLANKING OUT WINDOWS WITH A FILM.
I BELIEVE IT'S BLACKOUT WINDOWS WITH A FILM.
SO THOSE ARE JUST KIND OF THE TWO THINGS THAT I THINK ARE MISSPELLED OR MISPHRASED THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO CORRECT OR CARE ABOUT.
>> DOES THAT FIT IN THE REALM OF THINGS THAT CAN BE ADJUSTED? OR WOULD YOU NEED CLARIFICATION FROM THE CLERK?
>> I BELIEVE IT IS. I THINK IF I UNDERSTOOD HER CORRECTLY, IT WAS SOMETHING SHE HAD SAID?
>> THE MINUTES WERE GENERATED BY LISTENING TO THE MEETING? WE'VE HAD DIFFERENT STAFF WORKING HARD ON MULTIPLE THINGS.
>> NO, I REALLY APPRECIATE THESE, MINUTES HAVE BECOME A LOT MORE THOROUGH AND INVOLVED THAN IN PREVIOUS YEARS, AND I APPRECIATE THE DEDICATION TO THE RECORD.
BUT COMMISSIONER WESTHEIMER. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR EDITS OR COMMENTS ON THE MEETING MINUTES FROM LAST MONTH? DO WE HAVE ANY MOTIONS?
>> I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM LAST MONTH'S MEETING.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER BUCKHAM.
>> A SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER DALE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR.
>> ANY OPPOSED? MAYBE [INAUDIBLE] ON WHAT EXACTLY GOES INTO THAT AND HOW THEY WOULD BEST LIKE US TO ADDRESS THINGS LIKE TYPOS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT NEEDS TO BE A LONG DRAWN OUT PROCESS.
WILL WE POINT OUT ALL OF THEM HERE?
>> I JUST ADD THAT SOMETIMES THE TYPOS CHANGED THE CONTENT, LIKE WHICH WORLD WAR IT WAS.
[00:10:02]
>> NOW WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE PUBLIC HEARING ITEM.
[A. Giovale Home Improvement Project: Roof, Back-Porch, Yard PROPERTY INFORMATION: Address: 416 W Birch Assessor's Parcel Number: 100-11-015A Property Owner: Pete Giovale Applicant: Kevin Peterson (Contractor) Paul Moore (Architect) City Staff: Mark Reavis HPO REQUESTED ACTION: The applicant had requested a Certificate of No Effect for improvements to the back of the home, additional supplemental information was provided with improvements to the street facing façade required a “Certificate of Appropriateness” for the work is now the appropriate review as determined by the HPO. RECOMMENDED ACTION: Approve a Certificate of Appropriateness for 416 W Birch Ave with the condition to provide a roofing material that meets the US Secretary of the Interior’s Standards for Rehabilitation or alternative material that meets the guidance of NPS Preservation Brief #16 to Heritage Preservation Officer approval. ]
NO, THIS IS LAST MONTH'S MEETING.I'M STILL LOOKING AT THE MINUTES.
MARK, I HEAR YOU AND SARAH HAVE INFO FOR US.
>> YEAH. WE'LL DO A LITTLE TAG TEAM AT THE END.
BUT I WAS HERE I PICKED THIS ONE UP ON THE HOME IMPROVEMENT PROJECT AT 4:16 WEST BIRCH.
THE CONTRACTOR SUBMITTED AN APPLICATION AND THE ARCHITECT IS HERE FOR QUESTIONS.
ORIGINALLY THE APPLICATION WAS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF NO EFFECT, AND THAT WAS JUST WITH THE ORIGINAL SUBMISSION.
THE ARCHITECT WAS ON VACATION.
WE HAVE DIFFERENT SUBMISSIONS ALONG THE WAY.
BUT ULTIMATELY, THERE WAS SOME IMPROVEMENTS TO THE PRIMARY FACADE.
NOW IT BECAME A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS BASED UPON WHAT I CAN DO WHEN WE HAVE A PROPERTY IN TOWN SITE THAT'S POTENTIALLY IMPACTING THE APPEARANCE OF THE HOME.
THE HOME IS ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTING TO THE TOWN SITE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
IT'S A CONTRIBUTING HISTORIC PROPERTY, AND IT'S ALSO IN THE TOWN SITE OVERLAY, SO IT HAS A TOWN SITE DESIGN REVIEW FOR IT.
MY RECOMMENDATION WAS APPROVE A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATE FOR APPROPRIATENESS FOR 416 WEST BIRCH, WITH A CONDITION TO PROVIDE ROOFING MATERIAL THAT MEETS THE US SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS THAT MEETS THE GUIDANCE OF NPS PRESERVATION BRIEF 16 TO THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICERS APPROVAL OF WHATEVER THAT ALTERNATIVE MATERIAL IS.
THE ARCHITECT, I'LL LET HIM TALK, BUT PRESENTED TWO ALTERNATIVES FOR METAL ROOFING MATERIAL, WHICH ARE MORE LINEAL THAN WHAT YOU WOULD TYPICALLY SEE AS FAR AS SOMETHING THAT LOOKS SIMILAR TO ASPHALT OR ASPHALT SHINGLES THEMSELVES, BUT MOST OF THE HOMES IN TOWN SITE ARE ASPHALT SHINGLES.
I HAD A CONCERN ABOUT THE APPEARANCE CHANGE TO THAT PROPERTY TO THAT BUNGALOW.
IT'S A PRETTY CLASSIC BUNGALOW.
IT'S INTERESTING THAT IT ALSO FROM THE INVENTORY, WHAT'S CHANGED ON IT.
THERE'S ACTUALLY SOME PHOTOS IN MY STAFF REPORT.
THE ORIGINAL, PICTURE THAT WAS IN THE INVENTORY ACTUALLY SHOWS THAT THAT BRICK PLANTER WAS ADDED AFTER THE INVENTORY WAS TAKEN.
THEY ACTUALLY DID A GOOD JOB IN DOING THREE WINDOW REPLACEMENT THAT YOU CAN SEE.
THEN THE BRICK CHIMNEYS ARE ACTUALLY NOT ORIGINAL TO THAT HOUSE.
THEY WERE WRAPPED AROUND A STONE, SO IT LOOKS LIKE IT HAD MAL PAL STONE CHIMNEYS THAT WERE PART OF THE PROPERTY.
THEN THE ATTACHED GARAGE ALSO APPEARS IN THAT INVENTORY FORM AS BEING A CARPORT VERSUS GARAGE. THAT WAS AN ADDITION.
THE SUBMISSION HAD A LOT OF STUFF ABOUT FENCES AND CHANGES TO THE BACK.
THOSE ARE SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T REVIEW.
THERE IS A PRETTY BIG ARCHITECTURAL PACKET THAT WAS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.
AGAIN, MY CONCERN IS JUST PROPOSED ROUGHING MATERIALS AND HOW THAT WILL LOOK ON THE HOME.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS, I COULD TURN IT OVER TO THE ARCHITECT FOR QUESTIONS.
>> THAT WOULD BE GREAT. UNLESS ANYONE HAS QUESTIONS. TAKE THE STAGE.
>> HI. DO YOU NEED US TO PULL ANYTHING UP OR.
>> I DIDN'T KNOW. SOMETIMES THEY BRING PRESENTATIONS.
>> YES. PAUL MOORE, I'M THE ARCHITECT ON THE PROJECT.
I HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH THE GO VALLEYS FOR PROBABLY A YEAR, AND THE PROJECT REALLY STARTED WITH THE BACKYARD AND WANTING TO CREATE SOME PRIVACY AND TO REDEVELOP THE FENCING THAT'S THERE.
OVER TIME, THE PROJECT HAS MUSHROOMED AND BECOME MORE AND MORE INVOLVED.
[00:15:03]
AS THINGS BECOME MORE AND MORE INVOLVED, I'M TRYING AS AN ARCHITECT TO INTEGRATE MATERIALS ACROSS THE PROJECT.WITHOUT GOING INTO A LONG STORY ABOUT THE WHOLE THING.
I THINK THE CONCERN FROM MY SIDE AND WHY WE PROPOSE WHAT WE HAVE IS THAT I WAS LOOKING FOR SOME MATERIAL THAT COULD TIE THE PROJECT TOGETHER AS A WHOLE, AS A CRAFTSMAN STYLE PROJECT AND TRYING TO MAINTAIN THAT QUALITY.
AS THE PROJECT WAS MUSHROOMING, WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT MULTIPLE DIFFERENT MATERIALS, AND I WANTED TO MAKE THIS EFFORT TO BRING IT BACK TO A SMALLER PALLET OF MATERIAL SO THAT THE DESIGN COULD BE MORE CONSISTENT THROUGHOUT THE FENCE, THE WALKWAYS, THE PATIO IN THE BACK, THEY'RE GOING TO DO AN OUTDOOR KITCHEN.
THEY'RE DOING ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS, AND I WAS PUSHING TO GET A SMALLER PALLET OF MATERIALS.
THAT'S WHY WE PROPOSED THE METAL ROOF THAT WE DID THAT COULD ALSO BE PART OF THE METAL FENCING.
BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THE OWNERS ORIGINAL THOUGHT WAS TO DO SOMETHING MORE ALONG THE LINES OF A REPLICA OF A MORE HISTORIC ROOFING MATERIAL.
THE ROOF COMING THIS LAST PART OF THE PROJECT, IT'S JUST TRYING TO FIT IT IN MAINTAINING THE STORE QUALITY, BUT ALSO MAINTAINING THE CONTINUITY THROUGHOUT IN A LIMITED PALATE OF MATERIALS.
I THINK WE'RE OPEN TO DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT THAT ROOFING MIGHT BE.
THE OTHER CONCERN I WOULD BRING IS THE TAG LINE OF MY BUSINESS IS AUTHENTIC ARCHITECTURE.
I HAVE A PET PEEVE ABOUT USING MATERIALS THAT LOOK LIKE SOMETHING ELSE, AND I'D RATHER IF I'M GOING TO USE A MATERIAL, HAVE IT BE AUTHENTIC.
BUT I THINK WE ARE OPEN TO DISCUSSION.
I THINK THE LAST THING I WOULD SAY IS I HESITATE TO BRING IN ANOTHER ELEMENT, BUT THE PROJECT IS DEVELOPING.
ONE THING THAT I THINK I WOULD BRING UP WOULD BE THAT WE'VE TALKED SOME ABOUT REPLACING RAILING ON THE EXISTING FRONT PORCH THAT TO ME, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT WAS ORIGINAL.
IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS BUILT LIKE OUT OF TWO BY FOURS AND PAINTED AND WHAT WE'RE WANTING TO DO IS REPLACE THAT WITH POTENTIALLY WROUGHT IRON AND METAL THAT WOULD TIE TOGETHER WITH AGAIN THE WHOLE PROJECT.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT WE CAN DO EXACTLY IN TERMS OF WHAT DIRECTION YOU COULD GIVE ME IN TERMS OF HOW TO COME BACK TO YOU OR WHATEVER IN TERMS OF HOW TO CLARIFY WHAT THAT MATERIAL WOULD BE.
BUT WHILE WE'RE HERE, I THOUGHT WE COULD TALK ABOUT THE PROJECT AS A WHOLE, AS I SEE IT.
I THINK I'LL LET IT GO AT THAT AND OPEN TO DISCUSSION AND QUESTIONS.
>> THANK YOU. MARK, DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD OR BASED ON THAT INFORMATION?
>> AGAIN, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A MOVING TARGET WITH NOT EVERY DECISION MADE.
THERE ARE OPTIONS FOR COMMISSION AND MAKING DECISION, THAT'S AT THE END OF MY STAFF REPORT.
WE COULD MAKE A DETERMINATION NOW ON THE ROOFING MATERIAL, WHICH WAS MY CONCERN.
OR WE COULD ALSO PUT THE RESPONSIBILITY BACK TO ME TO WORK THROUGH IT, OR WE COULD COME BACK NEXT MONTH AND FINALIZE THINGS.
>> JUST AS A POINT OF CLARIFICATION, I DON'T BELIEVE WE ARE MEETING NEXT MONTH.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE NECESSARILY WANT TO DELAY WORK DURING THE BEST PARTS OF THE YEAR TO DO OUTDOOR WORK, BUT AT THE SAME TIME IF THAT'S WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, THEN THAT'S WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.
DID SARAH HAVE ANYTHING SHE NEEDED TO ADD? YOU SAID YOU WERE GOING TO TAKE TEAM?
>> I PICKED THIS ONE. JUST THE SUBMISSION THAT CAME IN.
>> QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSION FOR EITHER MARK OR THE ARCHITECT.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION FOR MARK.
IF WE WANTED TO, COULD WE CONDITIONALLY APPROVE IT, THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO THEN APPROVE THE ROOFING MATERIAL?
[00:20:05]
>> IT'S LIKE A CONDITIONAL APPROVAL FROM THE COMMISSION?
>> BUT I PRETTY MUCH HAVE TO STAND BY ON THE PRESERVATION BRIEF AND THE APPEARANCE AND INTERPRETING TOWNSITE.
>> IS THAT PRETTY MUCH WHAT YOUR RECOMMENDED ACTION IS ASKING US TO DO APPROVE THIS WITH THE ACKNOWLEDGMENT THEN YOU WOULD PROVIDE THE ULTIMATE YES, THIS MATERIAL IS ACCEPTABLE?
>> OKAY. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I WAS READING YOUR ACTION CORRECTLY.
>> WHAT PRECEDENT HAS BEEN SET AND THEN THE OTHER HISTORIC HOMES WITH USING A NEW OR METAL ROOF?
WE DID APPROVE A CRAD FOR A NON CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
THE CMU BUILDING ACTUALLY HAS A STANDING SEAM METAL ROOF ON IT.
IF YOU DROVE BY THAT BUILDING, YOU COULD SEE THE APPEARANCE.
AGAIN, IT WAS NOT A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WHICH ADDS THAT LEVEL OF COMPLEXITY TO HOW WE INTERPRET TOWNSITE WHEN WE MEET BOTH THE TOWNSITE STANDARDS AND THE US SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS.
>> SO NO CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE HAS CHANGED THE ROOF MATERIAL TO METAL? UNFORTUNATELY FOR THE HOMEOWNER AND FOR YOU GUYS, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ONE FOR US TO STICK WITH FOR A BIT AND REALLY HASH OUT BECAUSE THIS WILL BECOME MORE AND MORE OF AN ISSUE.
THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE THE FIRST ONE THAT COMES UP.
PEOPLE WANT ROOFS THAT THEY CAN HARVEST WATER OFF OF AND THESE TYPES OF THINGS.
WE'RE GOING TO WANT TO GIVE THIS SOME THOUGHT.
>> IF I CAN ADD, THERE ARE ALREADY STANDING SEAM METAL ROOFS IN TOWNSITE ON HISTORIC BUILDINGS WHERE THEY LISTED AS CONTRIBUTING IN 1985.
THEY MAY BE HISTORIC NOW, AND I CAN SPEAK TO THE INTENT OF THE OVERLAY SINCE I WROTE IT, AND THE INTENT WAS NEVER TO HAVE CLASSES OF HOMES OR BUILDINGS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
ALL THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, NOT CERTAIN STRUCTURES.
SO THERE ARE ALREADY STANDING SEAM METAL ROOFS ON HISTORIC BUILDINGS.
ONE OF THEM DOES HAVE A NATIONAL REGISTER PLAQUE ON IT, AND IT IS CONTRIBUTING.
THAT ONE HAD A STAMPED OR EMBOSSED METAL ROOF PRIOR, AND THEN THEY PUT ON A STANDING SEAM.
NOW, DO WE LIKE THE LOOK OF IT? THAT'S ANOTHER QUESTION.
IT'S MORE SIMILAR TO A CORRUGATED ROOF THAN NOT, WITH THE LINES GOING FROM THE RIDGE LINE DOWN, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW WE'RE GOING TO DEAL WITH THIS BECAUSE THERE ARE ALREADY SOME THERE.
>> THERE WERE TWO SUBMISSIONS OF MATERIALS.
THERE WAS A STANDING SEAM PICTURE AND ALSO A CORRUGATED PICTURE.
>> THAT CORRUGATED PICTURE HERE.
>> YEAH, THE PREFERENCE OF THE ARCHITECT, I JUST ASKED HIM WAS THE CORRUGATED ONE THAT WOULD BE SIMILAR TO THE FENCING MATERIAL.
>> DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION IF I CAN ASK SOMETHING NOT ROOF RELATED?
>> IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME IF THERE WOULD BE A FENCE IN THE FRONT THAT IS METAL, OR WHATEVER IF YOU'RE GOING TO REPLACE THE EXISTING FENCE IN THE FRONT ALONG THE SIDEWALK, THE HEIGHT OF IT?
THAT'S ALL. IT'S NOT IN TOWNSITE REVIEW.
>> WE'RE AT THREE FRONT FENCES.
>> I THINK SHE'S ASKING WHAT THE ZONING DESIGNATION IS.
>> ALL I'M ASKING IS THE HEIGHT IN THAT ZONING.
IF WE MEET THE ZONING THERE, IS IT THREE FEET OR CAN THEY GO HIGHER?
>> THREE FEET. THOSE DRAWINGS ARE PRETTY EXTENSIVE ABOUT FENCE HEIGHTS AND MEETING FENCE HEIGHTS ALL AROUND THAT ARCHITECT SUBMISSION.
AGAIN, I FOUND EVERYTHING ELSE MEETS REQUIREMENTS.
THERE COULD ALSO BE AN OPTION OF I DON'T KNOW WHEN THE ROOFING HAS TO HAPPEN EITHER.
I DO AGREE THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS TO THINK ABOUT WITH ROOFING MATERIALS, FIRE PROTECTION INSURANCE, ALL THOSE TYPE OF THINGS.
[00:25:01]
YOU'RE RIGHT. IT IS JUST FULLY PRECEDENT SETTING ON WHAT WE DO.>> ROOFING MATERIAL IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE STANDARDS OF TOWNSITE, AND I DON'T THINK I CAN THINK OF ANY OTHER PROJECTS OR HOUSES OR STRUCTURES WITH RIVER ROCK ON THEM.
NOT THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT BECAUSE I DON'T, BUT THAT'S NOT THE NORM.
THE NORM IS MALPIE OR MIXED WITH SANDSTONE.
BUT THE RIVER ROCK IS FINE WITH ME.
>> I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
IF ROOFING MATERIAL IS NOT IN THE OVERLAY GUIDELINES FOR TOWNSITE, ARE THERE GUIDELINES IN THAT TO FOLLOW THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS?
>> YES. THEY ARE REVIEWED AS PART OF THIS. YES.
>> SO THEREFORE, IT DOES APPLY IN THIS CASE THAT CHANGING OF MATERIALS WOULD BE THEN POTENTIALLY AN ADVERSE EFFECT?
>> THE CHANGE OF MATERIALS COULD BE AN ADVERSE EFFECT WHEN YOU INTERPRET BOTH USING THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION, AND THEN I WENT FURTHER IN WITH PRESERVATION BRIEF 16 AS WELL. THERE AGAIN.
>> THAT'S JUST ME PROVIDING THE INTERPRETATION.
AGAIN, COMMISSION CAN MAKE A DETERMINATION THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN MY DETERMINATION.
>> WE'RE HAVING THESE DISCUSSIONS IN MY DAY JOB FOR THE GRAND CANYON VILLAGE, NON CONTRIBUTING BUILDINGS, MAINTENANCE WOULD LIKE TO PUT IN METAL ROOF.
IS IT VIEWABLE FROM THE VILLAGE? IF THE HOME OWNER RECEIVED TAX CREDITS FOR A HISTORIC PROPERTY, WOULD THE TAX CREDIT ADVANTAGE BE AFFECTED IF THEY DID AN ACTION AND WHICH DIDN'T FOLLOW THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS?
>> AGAIN, IT'S NOT AN INCOME PRODUCING PROPERTY, BUT IF THEY WERE AN INCOME PRODUCING PROPERTY, THEY WOULD HAVE TO ADHERE TO THOSE STANDARDS.
>> IF THEY WERE TO SELL THE PROPERTY LATER ON, ANY FUTURE BUYER WOULD MAYBE NOT BE ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT, THEY DID SOMETHING WITH IT BECAUSE THE HOUSE HAD A ROOF MODIFICATION THAT DIDN'T MEET THE STANDARDS?
>> I PROBABLY IMAGINE THAT THAT MINOR OF A MODIFICATION WOULD NOT DELIST THE PROPERTY.
>> IT WOULD BE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER AS WELL.
>> THE ASPECTS OF IT ARE THE FORM, SOME OF THE DETAILS, THE BRACKETS, THE FRONT PORCH, THE CLASSIC BUNGALOW STYLES OF A CRAFTSMAN.
>> I HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS.
I GUESS ONE OF THEM TO CIRCLE BACK AROUND IS JUST THAT I THINK THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS IS WHAT APPLIES TO TOWNSITE'S GUIDELINES AND DOESN'T GO AS SPECIFIC AND THAT'S WHY IT REFERENCES SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHAB AND SO THAT'S I THINK WHAT TO HANG OUR HAT ON.
I FEEL LIKE THE CORRUGATED DOESN'T REALLY FIT IN WITH TOWNSITE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANY OTHER CORRUGATED ROOFS, AND IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE THAT STRUCTURE DID BEFORE.
I FEEL LIKE JUST FROM WHAT YOU PRESENTED, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S A FENCE DESIGN AND YOU'RE TRYING TO REMODEL THE HOUSE TO MATCH THE FENCE INSTEAD OF TRYING TO FIND A FENCE THAT GOES WITH A HISTORIC HOME.
WE DON'T HAVE A RAILING IN FRONT OF US, BUT JUST THE ROOF AND OTHER DETAILS.
IT FEELS LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE THE HOUSE MATCH THE FENCE RATHER THAN VICE VERSA.
>> THERE ARE OTHER CORRUGATED ROOFS, BUT THEY'RE NOT ON PRIMARY DWELLINGS.
SO THE ONE THAT HAD THE EMBOSSED METAL ROOF AND THEY REPLACED IT WITH A STANDING SEAM, WE ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW IF HOUSES EARLY ON HAD METAL ROOFS.
WE DON'T KNOW. MOST OF THEM HAVE ASPHALT NOW.
BUT WAS THAT THE ORIGINAL? DO WE NEED TO GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL? I DON'T KNOW.
I JUST HAD A GENERAL COMMENT TO MAKE THAT IT SEEMS LIKE IF YOU PURCHASE A HOME AND LIVE IN A HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD, THERE IS A BIT OF A RESPONSIBILITY THAT COMES WITH THAT, NOT JUST TO YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT ALSO TO THE CITY AS A WHOLE.
THOSE HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE PART OF FLAGSTAFF AND FLAGSTAFF'S CHARACTER.
>> HELLO, THIS IS THE HOMEOWNER. CAN I [INAUDIBLE]
[00:30:03]
SORRY, I COULDN'T BE THERE IN-PERSON.
I THINK ONE THING I JUST WANT TO BRING IN AND PAUL MOORE HAS TALKED ABOUT THIS IS THAT, I THINK ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS IS THAT WE HAVE A GOOD DESIGN, AND SO THIS COMMENT ABOUT DESIGNING THE FENCE AND HAVING THE HOUSE MATCH THE FENCE, WE DID LOOK AT OTHER MATERIALS LIKE FAKE SHAKES, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH ARE EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE AND DON'T HAVE A LONG LIFE.
THERE'S AN ECONOMIC FORCE PUSHING AWAY FROM THAT.
THE HOUSE HAS BEEN MODIFIED A LOT.
I'VE BEEN IN THIS HOUSE FOR 20 YEARS, BUT THE BRICK, FOR EXAMPLE, IS NOT ORIGINAL, THE GARAGE IS NOT ORIGINAL, SO THERE'S A FAIR AMOUNT OF MODIFICATION.
MY INTENT, HONESTLY, IS TO BRING THIS BACK MORE INTO THE SPIRIT OF THAT CRAFTSMAN STYLE, THAT BUNGALOW STYLE, AND BY USING MATERIALS THAT INVOKE THAT IN A MORE MODERN CONTEXT I THINK IS WHERE WE'RE GOING AND ALSO HAVING GOOD DESIGN AND HAVING IT BE LOW MAINTENANCE FOR DECADES TO COME.
I JUST WANTED TO CHIME IN THERE IS INTENT TO HONOR THE BONES OF THE HOUSE AND THE DESIGN.
I FEEL LIKE A LOT OF THE MODIFICATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE, INCLUDING THE ASPHALT SHINGLE ROOF, THE ADDITIONS, THE BRICK FACING AND ALL THAT STUFF ACTUALLY MOVED US AWAY FROM THAT, AND IT REALLY IS OUR FOCUS TO GET IT BACK TOWARDS THAT STUMP FOR WHATEVER IT'S WORTH.
>> I'D LIKE TO ADD THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THEIR HOMES IN TOWNSITE ARE NOT WEALTHY, AND WE NEED TO BE THOUGHTFUL OF SETTING A PRECEDENT THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN'T MEET.
I'M NOT GOING EITHER DIRECTION.
I'M JUST SAYING THAT IF WE REQUIRE AN EXPENSIVE ROOF, A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN'T DO THAT.
I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO BE PUSHED OUT OR ANGRY ABOUT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
IF WE CAN BE THOUGHTFUL OF THAT IN OUR DECISION, I THINK IT WOULD BE WISE TO KEEP IN MIND WHAT PEOPLE CAN DO.
>> COMMISSIONER HORN, LOOKED LIKE YOU WERE GOING TO SAY SOMETHING.
>> I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THANKS TO THE HOMEOWNER FOR CHIMING IN.
I DIDN'T REALIZE THEY WERE ON THE CALL, SO THANKS FOR ADDING THAT.
>> MARK, WHAT MATERIAL WOULD YOU RECOMMEND THEN? DO YOU HAVE ANY PARTICULAR STYLE OR MATERIAL IN MIND? I'M NOT A HUGE FAN OF THE LOOK OF THE CORRUGATED METAL AS IT LOOKS IN THE DRAWINGS, SO I JUST DIDN'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO ENVISION IT.
>> I HAD SOME THOUGHT ON ALTERNATIVE METAL PANELS, IT WAS ACTUALLY A METAL ROOF THAT WAS DONE IN SEGMENTS THAT SIMULATES SHINGLES.
>> I'M IMAGINING THEY WANT THE METAL ROOF FOR REASONS THAT SHELLY MENTIONED, LIKE WATER RUNOFF AND WATER COLLECTION.
>> IT'S NOT THE PERFECT SOLUTION EITHER.
IT'S SIMULATED BY HAVING AN ASPHALT MINERAL SURFACE APPLIED TO IT AND THE COLOR APPLIED TO IT.
AGAIN, BEING AN ARCHITECT, I HAVE THAT AVERSION TO FAKE MATERIALS AS WELL.
I'M JUST INTERPRETING WHAT I FELT AS FAR AS IF IT WAS REVIEWED FOR A TAX CREDIT PROJECT, AND IT WAS SUBMITTED TO THE PARK SERVICE, I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD ALLOW THAT ROUGE MATERIAL.
AGAIN, YOU HAVE THE OPTION OF COMMISSION, IT'S A DESIGN REVIEW OF TOWN SITE AND SO YOU HAVE THAT OPTION TO DECIDE WHAT YOU WOULD ALLOW OR NOT ALLOW AND WHAT YOUR PREFERENCE WOULD BE.
BUT AGAIN, IT'S PRECEDENT SETTING ONCE WE DO THIS.
>> I GUESS, I'M JUST TRYING TO WRAP MY HEAD AROUND WHY THE ARCHITECT AND HOMEOWNER WENT WITH THIS PARTICULAR DESIGN, AND MAYBE THEY CAN TRY THEM, IS IT BECAUSE THEY WANT A METAL ROOF? IS IT BECAUSE THEY LIKE THE LOOK OF THIS PARTICULAR CORRUGATED STYLE OR IT'S A COST EFFICIENT OPTION? BECAUSE THAT MIGHT HELP US THINK ABOUT ALTERNATIVES THAT MATCH OR WHATEVER.
>> PETER, FEEL FREE TO CHIME IN ALSO.
BUT I WOULD SAY, PART OF IT IS THAT THERE'S ALL VARIABLES FROM ALL AND WE'RE TRYING TO GET THEM TO GO TOGETHER.
ONE OF THE REASONS IS THE RAINWATER CATCHMENT, ANOTHER IS THE FIRE SAFETY.
THERE IS THE PREFERENCE TO MAINTAIN THE HISTORICAL QUALITY TOO.
[00:35:04]
I THINK ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE TRYING TO WORK TOGETHER.THEN THE OTHER THING I WAS MENTIONING, I WAS PUSHING TOWARDS FINDING MATERIAL THAT WOULD WORK FOR BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE FENCE, NOT LIKE ONE CAME BEFORE THE OTHER, BUT THAT THEY WOULD WORK TOGETHER AND SO THAT WAS THE OTHER THOUGHT I HAD.
>> THE ONE THING I WOULD JUST ADD TO THAT, PAUL IS THAT, WE HAVE ON THE CORNER OF PARK IN BIRCH, IT'S A COMMERCIAL SPACE RIGHT NEAR WHERE WE ENJOY OUR OUTDOOR BACKYARD AREA THERE'S A VACATION RENTAL RIGHT THERE.
WE ARE LOOKING FOR FENCING THAT IS MAYBE A LITTLE MORE SECURE, A LITTLE MORE PRIVATE THAN TYPICAL CEDAR FENCING.
THAT'S DRIVEN US TOWARDS FENCING MATERIALS THAT ARE A LITTLE BIT MORE MASSIVE AND A LITTLE MORE PRIVATE.
IT'S JUST ANOTHER CONSIDERATION.
THAT HELPED PUSH US IN A CERTAIN DIRECTION, I THINK, OVERALL, IN TERMS OF MATERIAL SELECTION.
AS PAUL WAS SAYING, WE WANT THE WHOLE THING TO WORK TOGETHER AS AN ENTIRE DESIGN.
THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE ENDED UP.
>> THANKS TO BOTH YOU, THAT ACTUALLY HELPS ME GET WHAT YOUR PRIORITIES ARE AND HOW THAT MIGHT FIT WITH MARK'S RECOMMENDATIONS. YES, OF COURSE, MARK.
>> WE HAVE ONE MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC.
I DON'T KNOW IF SHE WANTED TO SAY ANYTHING OR NOT.
>> IF YOU COULD PLEASE COME UP, STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD, AND WE HAVE A COUNTDOWN CLOCK OF THREE MINUTES FOR YOU TO TALK.
>> THANK YOU. MY NAME IS SARAH WAGNER.
IN THE PAST, I LIVED AT 414 WEST BIRCH.
I'M THE DIRECT NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR OF THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION.
I JUST HAD A QUESTION ABOUT METAL ROOFS IN GENERAL.
DO THEY PROTECT HOMES OF ANY KIND, MORE SO THAN ROOFS MADE OF OTHER MATERIALS? I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF THIS ISSUE AS A NEIGHBOR AND JUST A PERSON IN TOWN THAT FROM MY VANTAGE POINT, IF A HOMEOWNER IS PUTTING A METAL ROOF ON A HOUSE, DOESN'T THAT PROTECT A HISTORIC STRUCTURE LONGER THAN ROOFS MADE OF OTHER MATERIALS? I GUESS WITH THIS PARTICULAR NEIGHBOR, I CAN'T THINK OF ANOTHER NEIGHBOR IN MY IMMEDIATE VICINITY THAT HAS HIGHER INTEGRITY THAN THESE PARTICULAR NEIGHBORS.
WHEN I MOVED INTO MY HOUSE 16 YEARS AGO, THEY STARTED A NEIGHBORHOOD CHICKEN COOP FOR THE SAKE OF SUSTAINABILITY, AND THEY HARVEST THEIR GRAY WATER, AND THEY DID ZERO SCAPING IN THEIR YARD BECAUSE THAT'S THE DEPTH TO WHICH THEY CARE ABOUT THE COMMUNITY AND SUSTAINABLE LIVING PRACTICES.
BUT I'M ALSO JUST CURIOUS AS A RESIDENT IN THIS ERA OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND MORE ADVERSE WEATHER EVENTS, WHETHER A METAL ROOF ACTUALLY PROTECTS HISTORIC STRUCTURE LONGER. THANK YOU.
>> GREAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH, COMMISSIONER [INAUDIBLE] DID YOU HAVE A.
[OVERLAPPING] I ACTUALLY WANTED TO TALK ABOUT.
I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE PUSH FOR ME ON THIS ISSUE IS.
I DO THINK THAT THE OPTIONS LAID OUT FOR HISTORIC HOMES ARE EITHER GOING TO AN OPTION THAT'S NOT AS SUSTAINABLE.
IT'S A LESSER OPTION OR A VERY COST PROHIBITIVE OPTION.
I FEEL LIKE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT AS A VIABLE OPTION.
I'M JUST DOING QUICK GOOGLE SEARCHES ON HISTORIC HOMES WITH METAL ROOFS AND IN OTHER AREAS, THERE ARE PRECEDENTS SET FOR THAT.
I THINK THAT AS WE GO FORWARD, I CAN'T THINK OF THE COST BENEFIT OF ANOTHER ROOFING MATERIAL.
I'M LOOKING, I'M TRYING TO THINK, I'D LOVE TO HAVE BEAUTIFUL TILES THAT ARE MADE OUT OF METAL, I JUST THINK THE COST IS GOING TO BE OUTRAGEOUS TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING ELSE.
I WANT TO OFFER SOMETHING BETTER TO THE HOMEOWNER, NOT GO TO A LESSER OPTION OR A OPTION THAT'S JUST SO EXPENSIVE.
>> FOR ME, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE MATERIAL IF THEY'RE MAKING GOOD METAL ROOFS THAT LOOK LIKE HISTORIC ROOFS.
I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT THIS PARTICULAR CORRUGATED METAL DESIGN
[00:40:02]
LOOKS LIKE IT MATCHES THE DISTRICT AS.I'M SORRY, EVERYONE. IT LOOKS VERY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IS SHOWN IN THE HISTORIC PHOTOS.
LIKE IT'S GOING IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION THAN IT ORIGINALLY WAS.
IT JUST LOOKS OUT OF PLACE TO ME.
I'M NOT OPPOSED TO AN OPTION MADE OUT OF METAL OR OTHER MATERIALS THAT BALANCE THINGS LIKE SUSTAINABILITY AND HOME PROTECTION AND WATER COLLECTION.
BUT I FEEL IT SHOULD STILL LOOK.
WHAT'S THE SEAM ONE? WHAT'S THAT ONE CALLED?
>> STANDING SEAM IS THE WIDER ONE.
>> THAT'S WHAT I'VE SEEN ON THE HISTORIC EXAMPLES, JUST UP NOTE.
>> SO THERE'S THE CORRUGATED THAT'S MORE OF AN INDUSTRIAL LOOK.
THERE'S A STANDING SEAM THAT IS OFTEN YOU'LL SEE ON RESIDENTIAL AND IN MOUNTAIN COMMUNITIES, AND THEN THEY'RE ALL ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS THAT OF SIMULATE, SHINGLES.
BUT AGAIN, WE'RE LOOKING AT AN INCREASED COST ALONG THE WAY. WITH EACH ONE OF THOSE.
>> OH, SO THE STANDING IS SPENCER.
>> JUST ON THE QUESTION OF ASPHALT SHINGLES, AS FAR AS MY KNOWLEDGE, THERE'S THEY HAVE FIRE RATINGS, BUT IN FOREST FIRES, ASPHALT SHINGLES MELT AND DO LIGHT ON FIRE.
MELTS LITEALLY. EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE FIRE RATED AND TREATED.
>> I WANTED TO CIRCLE BACK TO MISS WAGNER'S QUESTION ABOUT PROTECTION AND JUST MAYBE HAVE YOU CHIN A LITTLE BIT MORE, MARK.
I KNOW, FROM MY KNOWLEDGE, METALS ARE BETTER IN WILDFIRE, BUT IS THERE OTHER ASPECTS OF PROTECTION THAT METAL SUPERIOR?
>> YOU CAN ALSO PUT IT SO ADVENTS.
YOU ACTUALLY CAN HAVE MORE OF A VENTING ROOF, WHICH IS ALSO MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT VERSUS HAVING THAT LAYER IN THAT TRANSFER OF THE HEAT.
>> QUESTION ABOUT STANDING SEAM.
I THINK I HAVE SEEN VARIATIONS IN STANDING SEAM.
SOMETIMES THE SEAMS ARE HIGHER THAN OTHERS.
WHEN I LOOK AT THESE PICTURES, THERE IS NO DOMINANT PATTERN TO THE ASPHALT SHINGLES.
IT'S A VERY SUBTLE PATTERN FROM RANDOMNESS, LET'S SAY, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT RANDOM, BUT MAYBE THERE'S A STANDING SEAM, IF THAT'S THE MORE ECONOMICAL THAT'S LOWER AND SPACED FARTHER APART.
IT WOULD NOT BE QUITE AS SHADOW PRODUCING AS A HIGH STANDING SEAM.
IT MIGHT BE A GOOD COMPROMISE.
IS THERE SUCH A THING, MARK? PAUL?
>> YOU CAN FOLD, THERE ARE ROOFS WHERE YOU LINK AND YOU FOLD AND THE SEAMS FOLD IT DOWN.
BUT WHETHER THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO BE PUT ON AS EFFICIENTLY AS, A TYPICAL SNAP BLOCK STANDING SEAM.
MORE LABOR INTENSIVE TO DO THAT.
>> MORE LABOR INTENSIVE TO HAVE BIGGER PIECES OF DOUBLE [OVERLAPPING].
I JUST MEANT LOWER SO THAT IT WOULDN'T HAVE QUITE AS BIG OF A SHADOW, WHICH IS, I THINK WHAT WE'RE ALL SORT OF AESTHETICALLY RESPONDING TO, IS THAT A HIGH SEAM IS GOING TO CAST QUITE A SHADOW AND BE REALLY VISIBLE, WHEREAS IF THERE WERE A TYPE THAT WAS NOT AS TALL AND SPACED FURTHER APART, AESTHETICALLY, WE MIGHT PREFER THAT IF IT'S NOT SUPER EXPENSIVE OR NOT AS SUFFICIENT OR I'M JUST WONDERING FROM THE ARCHITECTS IF YOU'VE SEEN SUCH A THING.
>> I'M NOT GOING TO REALLY FEEL SUPER KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT BEING REALLY SPECIFIC.
THE DEFINITELY ARE VARIETIES OF METAL ROOFING WITH DIFFERENT PROFILES.
BUT AS TO THEIR COST OR THEIR APPLICABILITY, I COULDN'T REALLY ADD ANYTHING RIGHT NOW.
>> IS THE ROOF IN NEED OF REPLACEMENT, IMMEDIATELY, OR IS THIS JUST PART OF A LARGER IMPROVEMENT TO THE HOUSE?
>> WELL, THE INTENT IS THAT I DON'T KNOW, PETE, CAN YOU, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE AGE OF THE EXISTING ROOF, BUT THE INTENT IS TO.
A BUNCH OF PROBLEMS ALL AT ONCE IN ONE SO.
>> THE ROOF IS AT THE END OF ITS LIFETIME, REALLY IT SHOULD BE REPLACED THIS YEAR.
IT'S REALLY BAD IN CERTAIN PLACES WE'VE HAD TO DO SOME SPOT REPAIRS OVER THE PAST YEAR JUST TO KEEP IT GOING SO FAR?
[00:45:02]
>> I APOLOGIZE. [OVERLAPPING].
>> OH, WAIT HERE. ALYCIA, I'M GOING TO LET MARK TALK FIRST.
>> I DIDN'T GIVE YOU A SOLID DIRECTION BECAUSE ALL I COULD DO IS INTERPRET WHAT I HAVE TO INTERPRET.
I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT GIVING YOU A REAL SOLID DIRECTION.
>> THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE. COMMISSIONER HAYES.
>> I WAS JUST GOING TO ASK MARK, IF THERE IS A METAL ROOF THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE AND PERIOD MAY NOT HAVE BEEN IN TOWN SITE OR ON THAT HOUSE OF THE PAST THAT WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE.
A STYLE THAT'S MORE APPROPRIATE?
>> I THINK PROBABLY IF WE'RE NOT GOING WITH A SIMULATION, WHICH I DON'T THINK WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH.
A STANDING SEAM WOULD PROBABLY BE THE MOST APPROPRIATE.
>> THAT'S WHERE MY COMFORT LEVEL WOULD BE.
>> WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE TRUST MARK'S COMFORT LEVEL, WHICH IS GOOD FOR HIS RECOMMENDED ACTION, IF THAT IS THE CASE FOR EVERYONE HERE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COMMISSION? ANY LAST THINGS FROM THE ARCHITECT OR THE HOMEOWNER?
>> MY RECOMMENDED MOTION IS I JUST DIDN'T, IT TURNED OUT TO BE OR, BUT IT SHOULD BE FOR, SORRY.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION WE'D LIKE TO HAVE ON THIS?
>> SO I WAS JUST GOING TO CHIME IN AND SAY THAT I ALSO, AGREE WITH MARK'S RECOMMENDATION.
IT SOUNDS WE'RE NOT FEELING SUPER SOLID ABOUT THE MATERIAL THAT'S BEEN PRESENTED.
YES, I WOULD ALSO FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WITH MARK'S RECOMMENDATIONS.
>> WE CAN ALSO, IF, THE ARCHITECT AND THE HOMEOWNER DECIDE TO GO IN ANOTHER DIRECTION.
OBVIOUSLY, YOU'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT, WHAT WAS THE OTHER THING THEY WERE GOING TO DO? OH, RAILING. WE'LL BE HERE.
WE'RE HAPPY TO CHAT ABOUT THIS AGAIN.
BUT SAME TIME, I DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO DELAY WHAT APPEARS TO BE A VERY NECESSARY PROJECT, ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE HERE NEXT MONTH. DO WE HAVE A MOTION?
>> I WOULD MOTION TO APPROVE A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR 416 WEST BIRCH AVENUE WITH THE CONDITION TO PROVIDE A ROOFING MATERIAL THAT MEETS THE US SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION OR ALTERNATIVE MATERIAL THAT MEETS THE GUIDANCE OF NPS PRESERVATION BRIEF NUMBER 16 TO HERITAGE PRESERVATION OFFICER APPROVAL.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER DAY. DO WE HAVE A SECOND?
>> SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER BERTRAM.
>> I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE AN AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION AND JUST CHANGE THAT OR TO FOR APPROPRIATE ALTERNATIVE MATERIAL.
>> THANK YOU. WE HAVE A RECOMMENDED ACTION AND A SECOND AND AN AMENDMENT AND A SECOND.
>> ANY OPPOSED? THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> THAT ENDS OUR PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS. WE WILL NOW MOVE ON TO GENERAL BUSINESS
[A. Flagstaff New Logo Project Summary The Communication & Civic Engagement Department would like to invite a representative from the Heritage Preservation Commission to design a new logo for the City. The group will meet regularly starting this summer through next year to review design concepts and provide feedback.]
AND START WITH THE FLAGSTAFF LOGO PROJECT SUMMARY.I THINK WE HAVE A PRESENTATION ON THAT OR INFORMATIONAL.
>> HI. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS CHRIS RHODE.
I'M A MANAGEMENT ANALYST WITH THE PUBLIC AFFAIRS DIVISION OF THE CITY IN COMMUNICATIONS AND CIVIC ENGAGEMENT, AND THIS IS MY ITEM.
THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT THIS TODAY.
I'M JUST GOING TO PROVIDE SOME INFORMATION, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT, I THINK.
BUT I'M HAPPY TO HEAR ANY QUESTIONS AS I GO ALONG AS WELL.
IS IT OKAY IF I SHARE MY SCREEN HERE? IS THAT POSSIBLE IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS?
>> TO DO WITH THIS SET-UP? EXCELLENT. LET ME GO AHEAD AND JUST PULL THIS UP THEN.
[00:50:03]
I SUBMITTED, I BELIEVE TO THE STAFF LIAISON, JUST A ONE PAGER ON THIS PROJECT, AND THIS IS PROBABLY OUTSIDE OF THE SCOPE OF WHAT THIS COMMISSION USUALLY HANDLES.FORGIVE ME IF IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT PROJECT.
BUT ESSENTIALLY, THE BACKGROUND ON THIS IS THAT VICE MAYOR ASLAN BROUGHT A FAIR REQUEST TO CITY COUNCIL SEVERAL MONTHS AGO WITH THE INTENT OF REDESIGNING THE CITY'S LOGO.
AFTER A FEW MONTHS OF DELIBERATING ON HOW TO MAKE THAT PROJECT WORK IN A WAY THAT WAS GOING TO BE FEASIBLE AND CHEAP AND WITH A GOOD POSITIVE AND BEAUTIFUL PRODUCT, WE MADE A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL LAST MONTH THAT THE CITY PARTNERS WITH THE NAU VISUALDESIGN LAB TO HANDLE THE DESIGN OF THAT PROJECT, AND THEN TO CONDUCT THE OVERSIGHT OF THE PROJECT, WE WANTED TO CONVENE A SMALL WORKING GROUP OF FIVE INDIVIDUALS.
WE FIGURED THAT THAT WOULD BE A GOOD SIZE WHERE IT'S LARGE ENOUGH TO INCLUDE A VARIETY OF BACKGROUNDS IN AREAS OF EXPERTISE, A LEVEL OF DIVERSITY AND REPRESENTATION THAT'S NECESSARY FOR A PROJECT LIKE THIS, WITHOUT IT JUST BEING A FREE-FOR-ALL PROJECT WHERE IT BECOMES A MESS AND THERE'S TOO MANY PEOPLE TRYING TO HONE DOWN A PRODUCT THAT REALLY GETS MESSY.
WE THOUGHT A SMALL FIVE-PERSON COMMITTEE OR WORKING GROUP RATHER, AND LOOKING AT WHO TO PUT ON THAT WORKING GROUP, WE THOUGHT THAT OUR EXISTING COMMISSIONS ARE A GOOD PLACE TO START.
WE'RE REACHING OUT TO THIS COMMISSION, AS WELL AS FOUR OTHERS TO SEE IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN HAVING A REPRESENTATIVE ON THIS WORKING GROUP. YOU DON'T HAVE TO.
IF YOU FEEL IT'S OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OR IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE INTEREST, NOT AT ALL A PROBLEM, WE HAVE OTHERS WE CAN GO TO TALK TO.
BUT WE FIGURED THAT THE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION WORKS WITH TRYING TO PRESERVE THE CULTURE OF THIS COMMUNITY IN A WAY, AND USUALLY IT'S THROUGH MORE PHYSICAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND BUILDINGS ARCHITECTURE, THAT KIND OF THING.
FULLY AWARE OF THAT. I'M ARCHITECTURE GUY MYSELF, BUT WE FIGURED THAT THIS COMMISSION COULD BRING THAT LEVEL OF EXPERTISE ON WHAT KINDS OF THINGS REPRESENT THIS COMMUNITY IN THE HISTORY BEHIND IT PRETTY WELL AND JUST HAD TO REPRESENT THAT PERSPECTIVE.
WE'VE ALSO REACHED OUT TO THE ARTS BEAUTIFICATION COMMISSION BECAUSE THEY HAVE EXPERTISE ON DESIGNING THINGS LIKE THIS.
THE COMMISSION ON DIVERSITY AWARENESS, WHO REPRESENTS DIFFERENT, GENDERS AND LGBTQ AND ALL THOSE KINDS OF COMMUNITIES AS WELL AS THE INDIGENOUS COMMISSION THAT REPRESENTS THAT UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE IN OUR COMMUNITY.
THEN FINALLY, THE EMPLOYEE ADVISORY COMMITTEE THAT WOULD BE THE ONE STAFF PERSON FROM THE CITY ON THIS WORKING GROUP, JUST AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ORGANIZATION THAT THIS PROJECT WILL COME TO REPRESENT.
THE PROJECT WILL ESSENTIALLY TAKE PLACE OVER THE COURSE OF ABOUT A YEAR.
WE EXPECT IT TO BE DONE BY NEXT MAY.
THE NAU VISUALDESIGN LAB HAS TOLD US THEY NEED ABOUT TWO SEMESTERS FOR THIS PROJECT, SO OUR GOAL WOULD BE OVER THE SUMMER TO CONVENE THIS GROUP.
HAVE THEM ESTABLISH WHAT KINDS OF PUBLIC COMMENTS AND THE GENERAL STRUCTURE THAT THEY WANT TO UTILIZE OVER THE COURSE OF THE PROJECT.
THEN IN THE FALL, WE'LL MEET WITH NAU, GIVE THEM SOME INITIAL GUIDANCE ON WHAT KIND OF A PRODUCT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, AND THEN MEET PERIODICALLY, WE THINK ABOUT ONCE A MONTH.
IT'S NOT SET IN STONE, THAT'LL DEPEND ON NEEDS, TO GIVE THEM ONGOING FEEDBACK AS THEY GIVE US SEVERAL DESIGNS AND WE HONE IN TOWARDS THE FINAL PRODUCT.
AT THE END, THIS WORKING GROUP WILL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL ON A FINAL DESIGN, AND CITY COUNCIL WILL DO AN UP OR DOWN VOTE ON WHETHER THEY LIKE THAT DESIGN OR NOT.
OUR HOPE IS THAT THIS HITS THE SWEET SPOT OF INCLUSION AND DIVERSITY AND REALLY HAVING A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC IN A MEANINGFUL WAY AND HAVE THEIR IMPACT BE HEARD AND NOT HAVING IT BECOME OVERCROWDED WITH TOO MANY COOKS IN THE KITCHEN.
I WANT TO NOTE, I'VE MADE A COUPLE OF PRESENTATIONS TO OTHER COMMISSIONS, AND I'VE HEARD A FEW TIMES JUST SOME CONCERN ABOUT THE WAY THE PUBLIC FEEDBACK PROCESS WOULD WORK.
THAT'S NOT MENTIONED IN THIS ONE PAGER. NOT BECAUSE IT WON'T BE THERE.
WE CERTAINLY WANT THAT TO BE A PART OF IT, BUT BECAUSE UNTIL THIS GROUP IS CONVENED, WE WANT TO LET THAT GROUP DECIDE THE BEST WAY TO GO FORWARD WITH IT.
WE CERTAINLY VALUE THE PUBLIC INPUT PART OF THE PROCESS.
BUT WE WANT THIS WORKING GROUP TO BE THE HUB TO MANAGE THE PUBLIC PROCESS AND THE DESIGN TEAM AND FEEDBACK FROM CITY COUNCIL AND THE LIKE JUST TO GUIDE THIS PROJECT FOR THE NEXT YEAR OR SO.
[00:55:05]
WITH THAT, I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS.I GUESS THE TWO QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR THE COMMISSION.
OUR NUMBER 1, IS THIS A PROJECT YOU THINK IS IN YOUR WHEELHOUSE AND YOU'D LIKE TO PARTICIPATE IN? AGAIN, IF THE ANSWER IS NO, THAT'S TOTALLY FINE.
IF THE ANSWER IS YES, AND YOU DO WANT TO PARTICIPATE, WE'D LOVE TO HEAR IF ANYONE SPECIFICALLY IN YOUR COMMISSION IS INTERESTED IN BEING THEIR REPRESENTATIVE.
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DECIDE THAT RIGHT NOW, I'M HAPPY TO TALK TO FOLKS OUTSIDE OF THIS MEETING.
WE'RE JUST LOOKING TO GET STARTED OVER THE COURSE OF THE SUMMER AND HAVE SOME STUFF ESTABLISHED BY THE END OF AUGUST WHEN NAU COMES BACK TO MEET FOR THE FALL SEMESTER.
>> GREAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH, CHRIS, FOR THAT INTRODUCTION.
CAN YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY WE WANT TO CHANGE THE LOGO? WERE THERE CONCERNS BROUGHT UP? IT'S SO BEAUTIFUL.
>> YES, THERE WERE A FEW CONCERNS ABOUT IT.
IT'S BEEN WITH THE CITY FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
WE WENT INTO LOOKING INTO THE HISTORY OF THIS, AND WE BELIEVE IT'S BEEN WITH THE CITY SINCE PROBABLY THE 1960S.
WE DIDN'T FIND ANY SPECIFIC MOTION OR ANYTHING, BUT QUITE A LONG TIME.
THE CONCERN WITH IT IS THAT THE DESIGN YOU SEE BEHIND YOU ON THE WALL THAT'S A VERY NICE PAINTING THAT I'M NOT SURE WHO DID IT, BUT IT'S QUITE NICE.
THE ONE BEHIND YOU ON THE FLAG ACTUALLY WORK BETTER AS A CITY SEAL THAN A CITY LOGO.
THEY'VE GOT A LOT OF INTRICATE DETAILS.
THERE'S SEVERAL VERSIONS OF THEM FLOATING AROUND.
YOU'LL NOTICE THAT NEITHER OF THOSE IS IDENTICAL TO THE ONE THAT'S ON THE CITY WEBSITE THAT LOOKS A LITTLE MORE MODERN.
WE ACTUALLY WANT TO KEEP THAT DESIGN IF POSSIBLE AND USE THAT AS THE SEAL GOING FORWARD.
IT STILL HAS A PLACE IN THE COMMISSION, BUT WITH ALL THE TEXTS AND ALL THE INTRICATE DETAILS, IT JUST WORKS BETTER AS A SEAL ON A SMALL PIECE OF PAPER THAN IT DOES AS A SYMBOL FOR THE COMMUNITY THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE APPLICABLE TO WEB-BASED FORMATS, TO SMALL USES, LARGE BILLBOARDS AND BUILDINGS, THOSE KIND OF THINGS.
USUALLY, YOU HAVE A SEAL AND A LOGO OF THE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
WE DON'T REALLY HAVE TWO OF THEM, SO WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE A NEW LOGO.
ALSO NOTE THIS CAME FROM CITY COUNCIL, NOT FROM CITY STAFF.
THAT'S NOT ALL OF THE REASONS.
THAT'S THE ONES THAT WE CAME UP WITH THAT WERE A GOOD REASON TO MOVE THIS PROJECT FORWARD.
VICE MAYOR ASLAN WAS THE ONE THAT SPONSORED THE IDEA ORIGINALLY, SO HE'D BE ABLE TO PROVIDE MORE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT HE'S HERE RIGHT NOW, BUT IT WAS HIS ORIGINAL IDEA.
ANYTHING MORE THAN I SAID, I THINK WOULD HAVE TO COME FROM HIM.
>> GREAT. THANK YOU. IT'S GOOD TO KNOW IT'S BEING KEPT BECAUSE AS THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION, I'D BE CONCERNED.
[LAUGHTER] THAT'S SOMETHING OVER 50 YEARS.
[LAUGHTER] COMMISSION, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR CHRIS?
>> I DON'T HAVE A QUESTION, BUT I HAVE A REQUEST THAT WHEN YOU GO TO THE PUBLIC, YOU HAVE MORE THAN ONLINE RESPONSES BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T DO THINGS ONLINE, SO PLEASE INCLUDE EVERYBODY.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION. YOU SAID THIS LOGO THAT'S BEING USED NOW ORIGINATED SOMETIME IN THE '60S.
DO YOU HAVE FOUND ANY EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING BEING USED PRIOR TO THAT TIME?
>> THE REASON I SAID THE 1960S WAS BECAUSE IN THE COURSE OF OUR RESEARCH ON THIS, WE LOCATED, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE SPECIFIC YEAR OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC ACTUALLY SAW THAT WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS AND SENT US SOME REALLY OLD NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS THAT NONE OF US HAD SEEN BEFORE THAT WENT THROUGH A PUBLIC PROCESS BACK IN THE 1960S THAT WAS RUN BY THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE TO REDESIGN THE LOGO FROM WHATEVER IT WAS BEFORE INTO A NEW ONE.
THERE ARE SEVERAL NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS ABOUT THIS REDESIGN.
I'LL SAY THAT THE WINNING DESIGN ACTUALLY NEVER WAS IMPLEMENTED FORMALLY.
IT LOOKS LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT DESIGN WON AND WAS KEPT AS THE COMPETITION WINNER FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS, AND THEN NOTHING EVER HAPPENED WITH IT AND THEN OUR NEW ONE CAME AFTER THAT.
THAT'S THE BEST THAT WE COULD FIND IN THE COURSE OF OUR RESEARCH.
I CAN'T REMEMBER THE EXACT YEAR OF IT.
THE DESIGN THAT WON THAT COMPETITION, IT WAS A GREEN PINE TREE AND A VERY BASIC STYLIZED, THE KIND OF THING WHERE IT GOES UP, AND THERE'S JUST SOME CURVED BRANCHES OFF THE SIDE OF IT WITH TWO STARS ON EITHER SIDE AND THAT WAS IT.
IN THE COURSE OF THIS PROJECT, WE COULD ATTEMPT TO REVIVE A VERSION OF THAT OR WHATNOT.
BUT THAT'S THE ONLY HISTORY WE FOUND ABOUT IT.
OUR PRESUMPTION IS THAT WHATEVER LOGO WAS BEFORE THAT TIME CEASED TO EXIST AROUND THEN,
[01:00:06]
WE USED THIS ONE TEMPORARILY, AND THEN THIS NEW ONE CAME INTO EFFECT SHORTLY AFTER.>> THE BIG SEAL BEHIND ME HAS A NAME AND WHAT LOOKS LIKE A DATE ON IT.
>> IT SAYS MAGNUS 31 OR 51 IF SOMEONE WANTS TO COME AND CHECK.
IT MIGHT NOT BE A DATE, BUT '52, MAYBE.
>> FASCINATING. I'LL BE HONEST, IN MY RESEARCH, ACTUALLY TO THAT SPOT AND LOOK AT ALL THAT LOGO, SO THAT'S ALSO NEW INFORMATION.
MAYBE HE WON THE CONTEST AND THEN WAS MAD. WE NEED THIS MUCH [INAUDIBLE].
>> BECAUSE YOU PUT IN MAGNUS, 1952, FLAGSTAFF AUTO POPULATES.
>> IT'S LIKE A KNOWN ARTIST ONLINE.
>> I WAS JUST ASKING, CHRIS, HE WAS REQUESTING IF THERE WAS A COMMISSION MEMBER THAT WANTED TO PARTICIPATE ON THE COMMITTEE.
>> YEAH. I GUESS MY NEXT QUESTION WOULD HAVE BEEN, IS THIS WITHIN OUR SCOPE OF SOMETHING THAT WE FEEL THAT THE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION SHOULD HAVE A SAY IN OR WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A SAY IN?
>> I FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD HAVE A SAY IN IT BECAUSE THEY'RE REVAMPING THE SEAL OR THE LOGO, AND WE WOULD WANT IT TO MAINTAIN SOME TYPE OF HISTORICAL INTEGRITY, SOMETHING THAT TELLS US WHAT FLAGSTAFF WAS, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
>> THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? YOU CAN ALSO SAY NO.
>> I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE SOMEBODY ON THERE.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY ELSE IS INTERESTED, BUT I'M INTERESTED.
IF NO ONE ELSE IS, OR WE COULD LIKE DRAW STRAWS.
>> I AGREE. SORRY, I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY IT'D BE GOOD TO HAVE SOMEONE ON THERE JUST TO MAINTAIN THAT CONTINUITY WITH WHERE FLAGSTAFF CAME FROM IN ADDITION TO WHERE IT IS TODAY.
I AM NOT INTERESTED IN DOING IT, SO I AM THRILLED THAT COMMISSIONER HAYES MIGHT BE.
>> THANK YOU. I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERJECT THERE.
I JUST WANTED TO ALSO JUST POINT OUT THAT THIS IS A WORKING GROUP.
IT'S NOT ITS OWN COMMITTEE OR SUBCOMMITTEE OR COMMISSION, WHICH MEANS THAT IT'S INFORMAL.
IT WILL NOT BE REQUIRED TO HAVE MEETS OR AGENDAS.
IT CAN IF IT DECIDES THAT IT WANTS TO JUST FOR THE SAKE OF ORGANIZATION AND TRANSPARENCY, BUT IT'S NOT REQUIRED TO.
IT ALSO MEANS THE COMPOSITION CAN CHANGE.
IF YOU START YOUR TIME ON IT AND AFTER A BIT OF TIME CAN'T CONTINUE OR DON'T WANT TO CONTINUE, WE CAN SUBSTITUTE SOMEONE ELSE FOR YOU.
WE'D LOVE IF YOU STAY THE WHOLE TIME, BUT THERE ISN'T ANY FORMAL REQUIREMENT THAT YOU BE THERE THE WHOLE TIME IF YOU DON'T END UP LIKING THE PROJECT.
>> GREAT. THANKS. COMMISSIONER BURCHAM, YOU HAVE YOUR HAND UP?
>> YES. I'M SORRY, IF CHRIS ALREADY ADDRESSED THIS.
IT SAYS THAT THE MEETINGS ARE ABOUT ONCE A MONTH.
IS THERE A CERTAIN DAY OR TIME WHEN THOSE OCCUR?
>> WE DON'T HAVE THOSE ESTABLISHED YET.
THE REASON IT SAYS ABOUT ONCE A MONTH IS THAT IN OUR CONVERSATIONS WITH THE NAU VISUAL DESIGN LAB, THEY'VE TOLD US THAT THAT'S APPROXIMATELY AS OFTEN AS THEY WILL WANT FEEDBACK.
OUR THOUGHT WAS THAT THAT WOULD BE ABOUT THE RIGHT INTERVAL WHICH THIS WORKING GROUP RATHER WOULD WANT TO CONVENE, BECAUSE THEY WILL BE DOING ONGOING WORK, AND WE'LL GET FEEDBACK.
THEY'LL INCORPORATE A BUNCH OF NEW EDITS AND THEY'LL BE LOOKING TO SAY, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS? WE'LL BE LOOKING FOR THAT FEEDBACK ON A REGULAR BASIS.
AT THIS TIME WE DON'T HAVE CERTAIN DATES OR TIMES.
WE'LL WORK ALL THAT OUT ONCE WE MEET WITH THE DESIGN LAB FOR THE FIRST TIME AND ONCE THE GROUP IS CONVENED, AND WE KNOW WHERE EVERYONE IS ABLE TO MEET, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THOSE ESTABLISHED YET.
WE'LL DO IT ACCORDING TO THE AVAILABILITY OF THE MEMBERS OF THE GROUP.
>> I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT WHOEVER, IF YOU'RE ON THE WORKING COMMITTEE JUST TO DO SOME EXPLORATION ON THIS MAGNUS FAMILY, BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S ACTUALLY STILL MAGNUS'S IN THE AREA, AND IT LOOKS TO BE POTENTIALLY THIS GENTLEMAN, JORY MAGNUS.
[01:05:05]
I THINK IT'D BE NICE TO KNOW THAT HISTORY.>> I'M PRETTY SURE THEY OWN A LAW OFFICE IN TOWN.
[OVERLAPPING] I SEE THEIR NAMES COME UP A LOT IN THE RECORDER'S OFFICE.
>> THEN WALLICK & VOLK, I THINK, MAYBE THEY HAVE SOMEBODY OVER THERE.
>> YOU GUYS ARE PRETTY GOOD, IN JUST A FEW MINUTES YOU FOUND ALL THAT OUT.
I'M IN THE OFFICE TOMORROW, AND I WILL BE INSPECTING THAT WALL QUITE CLOSELY, AND I'LL REACH TO SEE IF I CAN FIND ANYBODY AS WELL.
THANK YOU FOR THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL.
>> IF THEY'RE LOCAL ARTISTS, THE M&A MIGHT HAVE OTHER BITS OF THEIR WORK TOO, SO THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD RESOURCE TO LOOK AT SINCE THEY ARE THE REPOSITORY FOR COLORADO PLATEAU THINGS, AND I KNOW THEY HAVE A HUGE ART COLLECTION.
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS? ANY OTHER VOLUNTEERS? SHALL WE NOMINATE COMMISSIONER HAYES? [LAUGHTER]
>> YEAH, I WAS GOING TO SAY I AM HESITANT TO VOLUNTEER IF I DON'T KNOW WHEN THE MEETINGS MIGHT HAPPEN.
BUT THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER HAYES.
>> I THINK COMMISSIONER HAYES WOULD DO A VERY GOOD JOB REPRESENTING US, I THINK. SHE WOULD DO GREAT.
>> COMMISSIONER BURCHAM, PERHAPS COULD BE A SECOND [OVERLAPPING] IN CASE COMMISSIONER HAYES NEEDS TO STEP OUT.
>> DO WE NEED A FORMAL NOMINATION, OR IS THIS JUST SOMETHING THAT SHE CAN DO WHEN CHRIS WILL BE IN TOUCH WITH IT?
>> I THINK THAT'S UP TO YOUR COMMISSION, HOW YOU WANT TO GO ABOUT THAT.
IT IS A WORKING GROUP, SO I DON'T THINK THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A FORMAL MOTION, BUT IF YOU WANT TO DO IT, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP YOU.
>> THEN I THINK WE CAN PROBABLY JUST LET COMMISSIONER HAYES DO IT WITHOUT A FORMAL MOTION.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, AND COMMISSIONER HAYES, I WILL REACH OUT TO YOU.
I'LL GET YOUR EMAIL FROM YOUR STAFF LIAISON ABOUT TO BE IN THIS GROUP FOR THE FIRST TIME AND WHEN OUR FIRST MEETING WILL BE AND THAT KIND OF THING, AND THEN WE'D LIKE TO GET THE BALL ROLLING THIS SUMMER.
>> GREAT. THANK YOU. I HAVE A PRETTY FLEXIBLE WORK SCHEDULE TOO, UNLESS I HAVE TO GO OUT OF TOWN FOR WORK, OTHERWISE, GENERALLY, MOST OF THE TIME, I CAN FIT SOMETHING IN.
>> THAT'S EXCELLENT, AND I'LL NOTE THAT I USE THE SECOND NAME I HAVE.
THE FIRST ONE I GOT EARLIER TODAY.
I'VE GOT A COUPLE TENTATIVE ONES, BUT I'M STILL WAITING ON FINALIZING THE LAST THREE MEMBERS.
ONCE I HAVE ALL FIVE, I'LL REACH OUT TO ALL FIVE OF YOU AND WE'LL GET STARTED. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> GREAT. SO EXCITING, AND THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER HAYES, WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING PROGRESS ON THIS.
WE WILL NOW MOVE ON TO OUR ITEM 7B,
[B. Post WWII Production Housing Definition Type: HPC request for definition ]
OUR POST WORLD WAR II PRODUCTION HOUSING DEFINITION, SOMETHING THAT WE REQUESTED AT OUR LAST MEETING.THANK YOU FOR PULLING THIS TOGETHER SO FAST.
>> THANK YOU, COMMISSION MEMBERS.
THIS IS IN OUR ORDINANCE, AND IT TALKS ABOUT MY ABILITY.
IT'S A HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER MAY DETERMINE THAT'S REGARDING WHETHER WE DO A CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDY OR NOT, WHICH ARE QUITE EXPENSIVE.
THIS IS ITEM NUMBER 5, WHERE DETERMINATION CAN BE MADE, WHERE WE DON'T DO A CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDY.
USUALLY, WE LAND ON NUMBER 6, WHICH ARE CIRCUMSTANCES, IN MY MIND, SUCH AS THAT A DISTRICT MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO HAPPEN OR A BUILDING CAN'T BE INDIVIDUALLY LISTED AND THAT WE WOULDN'T REQUIRE A CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDY.
BUT IT IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION ON WHAT IS POST WORLD WAR II PRODUCTION HOUSING.
IT'S ONE DECADE, I WOULD SAY, THAT WE WERE BUILDING FOR THE PEOPLE COMING BACK FROM THE MILITARY FROM WORLD WAR II.
I THINK YOU'RE LOOKING AT THAT PRODUCTION IS AN ARCHITECTURAL STYLE, WHICH IS MID-CENTURY MODERN.
IT WAS PREVALENT FROM '45-'55, AND IT'S SIGNIFICANTLY SIMPLIFIED.
SUPER AFFORDABLE, EFFICIENT CONSTRUCTION, THAT IT'S FUNCTIONAL AND IT'S FOCUSING ON PRACTICAL ASPECTS OF JUST HOUSING GROWING FAMILIES.
THERE'S A BIG SHIFT DURING THE WAR AS FAR AS UNDERSTANDING MASS PRODUCTION TECHNIQUES.
[01:10:03]
THAT ASSEMBLY LINE TYPE OF THING THAT YOU HAD MORE AVAILABILITY TO LIKE LARGE PLATE GLASS WINDOWS.THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER THING YOU'D ALMOST ALWAYS SEE.
SIMPLE DESIGN, AGAIN, USUALLY A RECTANGULAR PLAN SOMETIMES WITH A CARPORT OR GARAGE.
IT WAS CERTAINLY SUBURBAN DEVELOPMENT, AND IT WAS SUPER EFFICIENT CONSTRUCTION.
I THINK THAT DOES HELP ME OUT, KNOWING THAT WHEN I SEE THREE HOUSES IN A ROW IN A NEIGHBORHOOD, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S INSIGNIFICANT AS FAR AS A NEIGHBORHOOD GOES.
IT CERTAINLY IS SOMETHING THAT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT AFTER WORLD WAR II.
IT'S JUST A MAY THAT I CAN JUST NOT DO A CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDY.
IF A NEIGHBORHOOD REALLY WAS A POST WORLD WAR II PRODUCTION HOUSING DEVELOPMENT AND THEY WERE PURSUING A DISTRICT, THEY COULD DO THAT.
I'M NOT DISMISSING THE FACT THAT IT'S IMPORTANT, BUT IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE OPTIONS OF THOSE SIX WHERE I DON'T HAVE TO REQUIRE A CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDY.
AGAIN, THEY'RE VERY EXPENSIVE.
THEY'RE EXTENSIVE WHEN WE DO THOSE, AND I'M CAREFUL ABOUT WHEN WE DO THOSE.
QUESTIONS ON IF THE DEFINITION HIT? [LAUGHTER]
>> I THINK YOUR DEFINITION IS GREAT.
BUT WHERE DOES A LETTER REPORT FIT IN? BECAUSE THAT'S A LOT LESS EXPENSIVE THAN A CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDY.
SO THAT YOU'RE MENTIONING CRSS, BUT NOT LETTER REPORTS.
>> YEAH. THOSE ARE STILL UNDER CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDIES, EVEN IF WE CALL IT A LETTER REPORT.
BUT EVEN THE LETTER REPORTS ARE QUITE EXPENSIVE AS WELL, HAVING TO HAVE THAT PROFESSIONAL QUALIFIED HISTORIAN DO THOSE REPORTS.
>> IS THERE A POINT AT WHICH WE DESIGNATE ALL OF THESE AS NON CONTRIBUTING AND NON SIGNIFICANT, AND THEN THEY ALL GET TORN DOWN AND ONE IS LEFT? DOESN'T THAT APPARENTLY BECOME SIGNIFICANT? I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT THESE, LIKE, RAMIFICATIONS OF LIKE, IF WE KEEP GETTING RID OF THINGS, THEN SUDDENLY, THIS ISN'T A HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD ANYMORE, AND SO THEN YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU WANT AND JUST THAT LONGER TERM CONSIDERATIONS.
I'M NOT SAYING EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE HOUSES NEEDS A CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDY, BUT I FEEL LIKE THERE'S SOME BALANCE BETWEEN A FULL INVESTIGATION OF IT AND ACKNOWLEDGING THAT IT IS HISTORIC.
>> IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO DO INDIVIDUAL LISTING OF A POST WORLD WAR 2 HOUSE.
BUT A DISTRICT, YOU COULD PUT TOGETHER SOMETHING THAT WOULD MAKE IT A HISTORIC DISTRICT.
BECAUSE IT OBVIOUSLY WAS DONE WITHIN THAT ONE DECADE.
>> I DID A LITTLE RESEARCH, AND LET'S SEE.
THE FLAGSTAFF POPULATION IN 1940 WAS 5,100.
THESE ARE ROUNDED. THAT WAS IN 40.
THE ORDINANCE DEPO CLOSED IN I THINK 46.
ACCORDING TO JOHN WESTERLUND WHO WROTE ARIZONA'S WAR TOWN.
IF YOU HAVEN'T READ IT, IT'S GREAT.
I'M NOT A WAR PERSON, BUT HE TALKS A LOT ABOUT FLAGSTAFF.
A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE HAD COME FROM OTHER PLACES TO WORK AT THE DEPOT, AND WHEN THE DEPOT CLOSED, THEY LOVED BEING HERE, AND THEY WANTED TO LIVE IN FLAGSTAFF, AND SO THERE WAS A HOUSING SHORTAGE.
HAVE WE HEARD THAT BEFORE? THAT'S WHEN COCONINO STATES AND CHERRY HILL AND THE EAST SIDE WERE BUILT OUT.
BY 1950, SO CLOSE TO 46 1950, THE POPULATION WAS 6,800, PLUS AT THAT TIME, WE HAD RETURNING VETERANS AND THEY WENT TO ARIZONA STATE COLLEGE.
THE COLLEGE GREW A LOT BECAUSE THEY ADDED MAJORS, SO THEY NEEDED MORE STAFF, THEY NEED MORE FACULTY, AND THEY HAD A LOT OF STUDENTS.
THEN BY 1960, THERE WERE 18,200 PEOPLE HERE.
THERE WAS DEFINITELY A POPULATION BOOM POST WORLD WAR 2.
>> I THINK THAT DEFINITION IS VERY LIMITED TO WHAT YOU WOULD RECOGNIZE WITH SOME OF THOSE EARLY PICTURES LIKE IN CALIFORNIA WHERE IT'S JUST ONE AFTER THE OTHER IDENTICAL TYPE HOUSES VERSUS SOME OF OUR DEVELOPMENT HERE WHERE WE'RE HAVING A LITTLE MORE.
THERE ARE MATCHING HOMES, THEY ARE PRETTY SIMPLE, BUT THERE'S A LOT MORE CUSTOMIZATION TO THOSE.
THEY'VE ALSO BEEN ADDED AND MODIFIED EXTENSIVELY BECAUSE THOSE SIMPLIFIED HOMES JUST DID NOT ACCOMMODATE.
>> WELL, I WAS TALKING TO MY NEIGHBOR WHO'S IN THE STEVE'S FAMILY ABOUT THAT WAS WHAT HER FAMILY DID.
THEY CAME HERE IN 55, I THINK SHE SAID, AND THEY JUST BUILT BUILT BUILD BUILT BUILT.
AND SO THAT WOULD BE A REALLY INTERESTING INTERVIEW.
[01:15:02]
THEN I ALSO HAVE A FRIEND WHOSE FAMILY HELPED BUILD COCONINO STATES, AND SHE HAS SOME PICTURES OF THAT.THAT WAS A DEVELOPER OUT OF ALBUQUERQUE WHO ABANDONED THE PROJECT, AND I THINK HER FAMILY PICKED IT UP AND FINISHED IT.
THOSE WERE DEFINITELY PRODUCTION HOUSES.
>> HOPE THAT HELPS WHEN WE DISCUSS THINGS A LITTLE BIT. THERE IS A NAME.
>> THERE IS SOME CHARACTERISTICS.
NOT THAT THEY NECESSARILY WOULD BE OUTSTANDING FOR CRAFTSMANSHIP, OR DESIGN OR SOMETHING, BUT I LIVE IN A STEVE BROTHERS NEIGHBORHOOD IN LOWER GREENLAW, AND LIKE OUR HOUSE, IT HAS WEEPING MORTAR.
THAT WAS POPULAR FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, AND IT ACTUALLY TOOK SOME SKILL TO DO THAT.
WHEN I LEARNED THAT AND THAT IT'S A SHORT TIME PERIOD, WHICH THAT WAS POPULAR, IT'S COOL.
NOW, I APPRECIATE IT AN AWFUL LOT MORE AND SWISS MANOR HAS GOT SOME CHARACTER TO IT.
THAT WOULD QUALIFY, I GUESS, AS POST WORLD WAR 2 PRODUCTION HOUSING.
IT SEEMS A LITTLE ODD TO ME IS THAT IT'S CALLED OUT IN FLAGSTAFF CODE, AND IT MAKES IT INCONSISTENT WITH NH THE NATIONAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION ACT.
I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S REALLY APPROPRIATE TO EVEN CALL THAT OUT.
THERE ARE MANY PLACES THAT WOULDN'T BE ELIGIBLE TO BE LISTED THAT ARE FROM THAT PERIOD.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION FOR MARK.
DO YOU FEEL LIKE IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THAT AS A REASON NOT TO DO A CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDY THAT ONE OF THOSE OTHERS WOULD NOT APPLY, THAT IT WOULDN'T HAVE INTEGRITY OR THERE'S NOT SOME OTHER REASON THAT YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION?
>> I WOULD PROBABLY NOT DISMISS SOMETHING THAT HAD INTEGRITY AND HAD THE POTENTIAL.
I WOULD CAREFULLY CONSIDER THAT.
IT'S NOT AN AUTOMATIC DISMISSAL BECAUSE THE WORD IS ME.
>> I GUESS I DIDN'T PHRASE THAT WELL.
I GUESS I FEEL LIKE DO YOU NEED THAT? IF YOU FEEL LIKE THERE'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN'T HAVE A CRS, DO YOU NEED THAT TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION?
>> YOU WANT TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION FIRST?
>> YEAH. I THINK I HAVE THOSE OPTIONS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE PROTECTING OUR RESOURCES.
>> IF I MAY CHAIR D, I'D LIKE TO OFFER A LITTLE HISTORICAL INFORMATION ON WHY THIS PART IS IN THERE.
IT WAS SPECIFICALLY ADDED BECAUSE OF PUBLIC COMMENT AT THE TIME THAT THE ORDINANCE WAS ADOPTED.
IN 2006, IT WAS AN AMENDMENT FROM COUNSEL AT THAT TIME THAT THEY DID NOT WANT THOSE TO BE LOOKED AT IN THE WAY OTHER PROPERTIES WERE.
I THINK THAT WAS BASED ON HOMEOWNERS WHO WORRIED ABOUT HOW THE 50 YEARS WOULD EVOLVE OVER TIME AND AFFECT THEIR ABILITY TO MAINTAIN THEIR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES PRIMARILY.
THAT WAS BASED ON THAT FEEDBACK AT THE TIME, AND, YES, IT'S ALMOST BEEN 20 YEARS.
BUT I THINK THAT THERE'S PROBABLY A MIX OF SENTIMENTS STILL ON THAT ISSUE IN THE COMMUNITY.
JUST AS A BACKGROUND OF THAT MATERIAL.
AT LEAST FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN IN THE REGIONAL PLAN, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO REALLY THINK HISTORIC DISTRICTS SHOULD BE EXPANDED AND PEOPLE WHO ARE OF NO INTEREST IN SEEING THAT EXPANDED INTO THE POST WORLD WAR TWO AREA NEIGHBORHOODS.
I THINK IT WOULD BE A VERY BIG PROJECT TO TAKE ON REOPENING THAT DISCUSSION WITH THE COMMUNITY.
>> THANK YOU. OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS?
>> I HAVE ONE. WOULDN'T IT BE OUR ROLE TO HELP EDUCATE THE PUBLIC WHO MAY MAY NOT REALIZE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THOSE AREAS? ISN'T THAT OUR ROLE TO TALK TO PEOPLE AND SAY, THIS IS REALLY SIGNIFICANT TO HOW FLAGSTAFF GREW? THERE WAS A POPULATION BOOM.
THIS IS WHY THERE WAS, THIS IS HOW IT WAS HANDLED, AND WHO WERE THE PEOPLE WHO BUILT THE HOMES AND THEY BUILT THEM TO BE AFFORDABLE.
I THINK THAT'S PRETTY AWESOME SO TO MEET THE TIMES.
IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT'S OUR ROLE TO EVOLVE AS PEOPLE LEARN AND REALIZE THE BENEFITS OF PROTECTING THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER BECAUSE THAT PROTECTS EVERYBODY.
>> JUST TO WHAT SARAH WAS SAYING, I UNDERSTAND WHERE THERE WOULD BE SOME MIXED FEELINGS ON BOTH ENDS BECAUSE I GREW UP IN COCONINO STATES, AND MY FATHER LIKES TO RENOVATE HIS HOUSE CONSTANTLY, AND I DON'T THINK HE STOPPED.
[01:20:02]
I THINK HE WOULD BE RESISTANT TO SOMEONE COMING IN AND SAYING, TELLING HIM THAT YOU'RE IF THAT MAKES SENSE.>> I THINK THAT'S WHERE EDUCATION COMES IN AND WRITING THE RIGHT STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES THAT FIT THE AREA AND THE PEOPLE'S DESIRES.
>> I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU.
>> PRESERVATION GOT A BAD RAP REPUTATION EARLY ON.
DON'T TELL ME WHAT COLOR TO PAINT MY HOUSE.
>> I THINK I'LL JUST HAVE ONE FINAL COMMENT.
IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THIS DEFINITION OR PHRASE, BUT IT'S JUST ABOUT CONTEMPLATING HERITAGE PRESERVATION, AND THE NATIONAL REGISTER IS JUST PREDOMINANTLY PRESERVING EXAMPLES OF FINE CRAFTSMANSHIP, EURO AMERICAN DESIGN, EURO AMERICAN DESIGNERS, ARCHITECTS, CRAFTSMEN.
I THINK IF WE THINK ABOUT HERITAGE PRESERVATION, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE STORIES WE'RE PRESERVING, NOT JUST THE BUILDINGS.
I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT NATIONAL REGISTER SENTIMENT IS SHIFTING.
THINGS ARE NOT LIKE ARCHITECTURAL STANDARDS ARE SHIFTING FOR WHAT GETS PRESERVED.
IT CAN BE MUCH MORE ABOUT THE STORY OR THAT COMPONENT OF IT.
AGAIN, NOT NECESSARILY THESE HOUSES, BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT GETS PRESERVED, I THINK WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE STORIES THAT ARE THERE AND THOSE PIECES OF THE COMMUNITY, IF WE'RE ONLY GOING TO PRESERVE PREMIER EXAMPLES OF ARCHITECTURE, WE'RE GOING TO LOSE A HUGE PORTION OF OUR COMMUNITY IN THAT.
>> I THINK IF THAT WASN'T IN THE ZONING CODE, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WOULD CHANGE ALL THAT MUCH BECAUSE MOST PLACES DON'T HAVE THAT IN THE ZONING CODE, AND YOU DON'T GO DOWN TO SAY PHOENIX OR TUCSON AND EVERY POST WORLD WAR II PRODUCTION HOUSING COMMUNITY IS A HISTORIC DISTRICT.
IF THERE'S PARTICULAR STYLE, OR IT STANDS OUT, THERE'S INTEGRITY, POTENTIALLY, AND I THINK THAT SOMEBODY ALSO HAS TO BE MOTIVATED TO GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
>> THANKS, MARK, FOR RESEARCHING THIS.
>> THANK YOU. THIS IS REALLY INTERESTING.
I THINK PROVIDES A LOT OF CONTEXT FOR US.
>> YOU CAN QUIZ US ON IT THE NEXT TIME ONE OF THESE HOUSES COMES TO US.
>> I'LL GIVE IT A TRY. I FELT LIKE A SCHOOL ASSIGNMENT.
>> WE WILL NOW MOVE ON TO YOUR NEXT SCHOOL ASSIGNMENT, THE REPORTS.
[A. APPROVALS]
THERE ARE THREE APPROVALS HERE.ANY THAT YOU AND SARAH WOULD LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT FOR US?
>> I DID NOT DO THEM, BUT SARAH'S BACK THERE TRIPLE-TEAMING.
>> I CAN TALK ON IT. THANK YOU.
MARK HAD SOME VACATION THIS MONTH, AND I WAS ACTING HPO FOR A FEW WEEKS, AND I DID SOME APPROVALS ON HIS BEHALF.
THE FIRST IS JUST TO INFORM YOU THAT WE HAVE NEW JUNIPER POINT APPLICATIONS.
THAT AREA HAD A CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDY THAT WAS APPROVED IN THE OATS, AND THAT APPROVAL STILL STANDS.
WE DO HAVE THAT ON FILE, BUT IT'S ALREADY APPROVED, AND WE SIMPLY ARE PROVIDING COMMENTS TO THE APPLICANTS THAT THEY NEED TO ENSURE THEY'RE FOLLOWING ANTIQUITIES LAWS AND CALLING IN ANYTHING THAT'S NAGPR RELATED.
THERE'S JUST APPROVAL WITH SOME CONDITIONS ON ALL OF THOSE ITEMS, WHICH ARE REALLY JUST REMINDERS THAT THEY NEED TO FOLLOW PROPER PROCEDURES WHEN GRADING AND CLEARING LAND AND DIGGING FOUNDATIONS AND THINGS ALONG THOSE LINES, DOING CUT AND FILL FOR ROADS.
THAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS TO THAT ONE.
THAT'LL BE TRUE FOR ALL OF THE APPLICATIONS WE HAVE COMING IN FOR JUNIPER POINT.
THOSE WILL NOT COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION.
THEY ALREADY HAVE PHASE 2 CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDY APPROVAL AND THERE'S REALLY NOTHING NEW TO REVIEW.
THE NEXT IS THERE ARE 10 PARCELS ALONG ROUTE 66 BETWEEN THE PPF PAINTING COMPANY AND THE HOTEL.
RIGHT THERE, YOU'LL KNOW THERE'S A BIG RED ROCK FORMATION, AND YOU PROBABLY NOTICE THAT IT DROPS ROCKS ONTO THE SIDEWALK AND THE BIKE LANE, AND IT POSES A PUBLIC HAZARD, AND THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS SUBMITTED A LETTER REPORT THAT WAS PREPARED BY WALKING THE SITE TO BASICALLY TAKE THAT ENTIRE SET OF PROPERTIES DOWN TO GRADE.
WITH THE ROAD, THEY ARE NOT PROTECTED BY THE RESOURCE PROTECTION OVERLAY.
THERE'S NO SLOPE PROTECTION ON THE PROPERTY.
THAT LETTER REPORT IS APPROVED WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT THEY ARE
[01:25:04]
MONITORING AND FOLLOWING PROPER PROCEDURES AS WELL.THE LAST ONE IS A CERTIFICATE OF NO EFFECT IN THE TOWN SITE OVERLAY FOR THE FAIRCHILD PROPERTY.
IT'S 618 WEST CHERRY, WHICH BY UNUSUAL NATURE HAS THREE FRONT DOORS. IT DOES.
IT HAS AN EXTRA FRONT DOOR THAT ENTERS, I THINK WHAT IS NOW MAYBE A BEDROOM, BUT WAS AN OFFICE.
THEY SAID THERE WERE THREE, AND I THINK THERE IS A THIRD ON THE SIDE FACING THE DRIVEWAY.
IT'S AN UNUSUAL CONFIGURATION.
I APPROVED THE REMOVAL OF THE DOOR THAT FACES THE DRIVEWAY AND GOES INTO AN OFFICE SPACE.
THIS IS THE SHORT SIDE OF THE L, AND IT CAN'T BE SEEN FROM MOST OF THE ROAD.
YOU CAN SEE IT IF YOU'RE WALKING IN A CERTAIN DIRECTION, BUT FROM RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE, YOU CAN SEE IT'S NOT VERY VISIBLE.
THEY ARE GOING TO REPLACE EVERYTHING ON THAT WITH LIKE MATERIALS.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A WINDOW OR ANYTHING.
IT'LL JUST BE SIDING THAT MATCHES ALL THE OTHER SIDING AND CUT AND COLOR AND TEXTURE.
THAT'S WHAT'S BEEN APPROVED ON THAT PROPERTY.
ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME ON ANY OF THOSE? I DON'T KNOW WHETHER TO CALL THAT LITTLE DOOR ON THE SIDE WHERE THE DRIVEWAY IS A FRONT DOOR OR NOT.
SURE. IT GOES INTO THE SAME ROOM THAT THE OTHER FRONT DOOR GOES INTO.
I GUESS IT USED TO BE A CHURCH OFFICE.
THERE WAS A PASTOR THAT LIVED THERE.
>> IT WAS ALSO THE FIRST LIBRARY.
IT HAS A BIG HISTORY HERE, AND IT WAS MOVED THERE IN ABOUT 1930.
I DON'T KNOW THE RIGHT RELIGIOUS TERM FOR THE CHURCH THAT'S ON SOUTH SAN FRANCISCO.
I BELIEVE THEY USED TO BE DOWNTOWN AND SPLIT UP AND MOVED.
THE HARPER'S OWNED IT, SO THAT WAS A BIG FAMILY HERE.
>> ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE HOUSES THAT WE LUMBERJACKS JUST TOOK AROUND TOWN WHEN WE WANTED TO.
THE LUMBERJACKS OF FLAGSTAFF, WE'RE GOOD AT MOVING BIG STUFF.
THEY MOVED A HOUSE AND HAS EXTRA DOORS, AND IT'S GOT A LOT OF HISTORY, BUT I THINK A HOMEOWNER WOULD LIKE TO NOT HAVE MULTIPLE FRONT DOORS GOING INTO THEIR FRONT ROOMS. IT'S NOT ENERGY EFFICIENT EITHER.
>> GREAT. THANK YOU, SARAH, AND THANK YOU FOR THIS CAMEO TODAY.
>> MARK GOES ON VACATION AND I GET A CAMEO.
>> REALLY NEEDED THAT VACATION.
>> WE WILL NOW MOVE ON TO OUR MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS. MICHELLE, WHAT DO YOU HAVE FOR US?
[9. MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS TO/FROM COMMISSION MEMBERS]
>> WE'VE HAD SEVERAL PEOPLE SIGN UP FOR PARTICIPATING ON THE STEERING COMMITTEE.
ABBY HAS SIGNED UP FOR THE MAY 7TH, WHICH JUST PASSED.
HOPEFULLY, SHE'LL BE ABLE TO PROVIDE A REPORT OUT.
SORRY. THEN SIGNED UP FOR JUNE 18.
WE HAVE COMMISSIONER DALE REPRESENTING ON 5/22 AND ON AUGUST 27.
THERE'S STILL A FEW DATES LEFT.
IF ANYBODY DOES WANT TO ATTEND THE REGIONAL PLAN STEERING COMMITTEE ON BEHALF OF YOUR ROLE AS THE HPC, LET ME KNOW.
IS THERE ANYBODY THAT DOES WANT TO SIGN UP RIGHT NOW?
>> I'D LIKE TO SIGN UP NOW JUST BECAUSE WHEN I LOOKED BEFORE, I GOT DISTRACTED.
JUNE 6TH, JUNE 12TH, JULY 10TH, AND AUGUST 29TH ARE NOT REPRESENTED.
>> IS THERE A WAY YOU CAN PUT THOSE UP ON THE BOARD?
>> JUNE 6TH. WHAT WAS THE OTHER?
>> JUNE 4TH, JUNE 12TH, JULY 10TH, AND AUGUST 29TH.
IS ANYBODY WANTING TO TAKE ANY OF THOSE?
>> I CAN PROBABLY DO ONE OR TWO OF THOSE.
WHAT WAS THE JULY DATE? I COULDN'T WRITE THAT FACT.
>> TENTH. I GOT THE ONE. I DIDN'T GET THE ZERO.
>> ACTUALLY, I CAN SHARE MY, HERE YOU GO.
HERE ARE THE DATES WITH THE TOPICS.
>> WE CAN HAVE MORE THAN ONE PERSON AT A MEETING, CORRECT, AS LONG AS WE DON'T MAKE A QUORUM, BECAUSE THEN WE WOULD HAVE TO ANNOUNCE IT.
>> I JUST GAVE THE DATES THAT HAD NO REPRESENTATION, BUT YOU'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO SIGN UP FOR A DATE THAT HAS ONE OTHER.
[01:30:02]
>> AND AT THIS TIME, THEY ONLY HAVE ONE OTHER.
NOBODY'S DOUBLED UP ON ANY OF THE OTHER.
>> AND I WOULD JUST E MAIL YOU THESE
>> IF I CAN MAKE A SUGGESTION.
>> THE AUGUST 27TH AND THE 29TH ARE GOING TO BE THE FULL DRAFT ENDORSEMENT.
COMMISSIONER DALE HAS SIGNED UP FOR THE 27TH. IT WOULD BE GOOD.
IT WOULD BE GOOD IF ONE OF YOU COULD ATTEND BOTH THE 27TH AND THE 29TH, SO THERE'S ONE REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE ENTIRE ENDORSEMENT BECAUSE THAT CONVERSATION IS GOING TO BE VERY BIG.
I COULD DO THE 27TH AND THE 29TH.
>> I CAN DO SOME OF THE JUNE AND JULY DATES.
I COULD DO JUNE 12TH AND JULY 10TH.
>> COMMISSIONER DEA, WAS THAT YOU THAT SAID THAT YOU COULD DO JUNE 4TH? GREAT. THANK YOU.
SO AT THIS POINT, WE HAVE EVERY MEETING REPRESENTED BY AT LEAST ONE COMMISSIONER, EXCEPT FOR AUGUST 29TH, WE HAVE TWO, WHICH MEANS THAT ALL THE OTHER DATES IF THERE'S, IF YOU WANT TO TAG ON, OR IF YOU FIND OUT LATER THAT YOU'RE FREE.
WE KNOW THAT THIS IS THE SUMMER MONTHS, AND IT'S A LITTLE BIT HARD.
THANK YOU ALL FOR AGREEING TO THAT.
OUR MEETING. I KNOW WE TALKED LAST MONTH ABOUT IF WE COULD MAKE A QUORUM.
BUT I WENT AHEAD AND MADE THE CALL THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO MEET BECAUSE THE CITY HAS INSTITUTIONALIZED TWO ADDITIONAL HOLIDAYS, JUNE 10TH, AND INDIGENOUS DAY.
ACTUALLY IT WILL BE A HOLIDAY FOR STAFF.
I FIGURED IT'S HARD TO GET A QUORUM.
LET'S JUST MAKE THE CALL, AND HAPPY SOLSTICE.
THAT'S IT. [OVERLAPPING] I'LL SEND.
OH, I DID WHILE WE WERE MEETING.
I DID SEND AN EMAIL TO THE CLERK'S OFFICE ABOUT THE QUESTIONS WE HAD.
SHE IS OUT OF THE OFFICE UNTIL MAY 28TH.
IT'LL BE WHEN SHE GETS BACK, SHE'LL RESPOND, AND I'LL GET YOU GUYS THE ANSWERS.
I GUESS THE LAST THING IS I WON'T BE HERE FOR THE JULY MEETING, SO VICE CHAIR DEA, IF YOU WILL BE HERE, YOU ARE IN CHARGE.
IT'S VERY FUN. YOU GET A GAVEL.
[LAUGHTER] BUT I WOULD PROBABLY PREFER IF WE DON'T SKIP TWO MONTHS IN A ROW UNLESS IT'S CANCELED DUE TO A LACK OF ITEMS ON THE AGENDA.
WHICH HAPPENS DURING THE SUMMER SOMETIMES, BUT THAT'S A LONG TIME TO DELAY PROJECTS ON THINGS.
>> LEAVE YOUR SHOES FOR ME TO FILL.
MAYBE I'LL GET SICK OF UTAH EARLY AND COME BACK.
[LAUGHTER] AFTER NOT SHOWERING FOR A WEEK AND A HALF, I'LL BE LIKE, HELLO, I'M HERE.
>> THAT'S WHAT RIVERS ARE FOR.
THEY HAVE THOSE IN UTAH. EXCITED.
>> SOMETIMES THEY HAVE WATER, TOO.
>> ANY OTHER ITEMS FROM COMMISSION? NOTHING.
>> I JUST WANTED TO GIVE A LITTLE BRIEF OF THE MEETING THAT I WENT TO.
IF WE HAVE A FEW MINUTES. YES.
>> [OVERLAPPING] THAT'LL BE GREAT.
>> I WENT TO THE MAY 7TH MEETING THAT WAS FOCUSED ON SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC SYSTEMS. THEY SPOKE PRIMARILY FOCUSING ON HOUSING AND DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY.
MICHELLE, IT SOUNDED THEY MENTIONED THAT YOU MIGHT BE TALKING TO THEM ABOUT ZONING CODES SOON, IS THAT CORRECT?
>> YES, I'LL BE AT THE MAY 22ND MEETING TO GIVE IT ON THE LAND AVAILABILITY, SUITABILITY AND CODE ANALYSIS PROJECT.
>> WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE VERY EAGER TO HEAR IT BECAUSE PART OF THE HOUSING AND DEVELOPMENT INVOLVES POSSIBLE REZONING.
THEY WOULD LIKE MORE INFORMATION FROM YOU.
IT SOUNDS LIKE WHATEVER YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO GIVE MIGHT FILL IN SOME OF THEIR QUESTIONS THAT THEY HAVE AT THE MOMENT.
SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF OUR COMMISSION, THEY TALKED A LOT ABOUT HOW WE HAVE A LOT OF SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AND THAT THERE IS A NEED FOR MULTIFAMILY HOMES.
[01:35:07]
OBVIOUSLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DEVELOPMENT.FOR OUR PURPOSES, WE'RE THE PRESERVATION COMMISSION.
WE DON'T WANT TO LOSE THE INTEGRITY OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, AND SO WHILE, WE AREN'T REALLY CRAZY ABOUT TEARING ANYTHING DOWN FOR APARTMENT BUILDINGS, WE ARE AVAILABLE AS A RESOURCE.
OBVIOUSLY, WE GIVE OUT GRANTS.
WE WANT TO HELP, KEEP FLAGSTAFF HOMES AND BUSINESSES, HELP PEOPLE MAINTAIN BEING ABLE TO DO THAT.
THAT WAS JUST MY TWO CENTS THAT I PUT IN AND WHAT I THINK OTHERS WOULD AGREE IS OUR PERSPECTIVE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DEVELOPMENT.
BUT, EVERYTHING EVERYONE WAS NICE.
IT WAS MY BEDTIME, BY THE TIME I GOT TO SPEAK.
DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME OR ANYTHING THEY WANT TO SAY?
>> HOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE WERE AT THE MEETING? WAS IT POPULATED BY THE PUBLIC.
>> THERE WAS ONE OTHER PERSON WHO I THINK WORKS FOR THE CITY WHO CAME AS LIKE A PUBLIC MEMBER.
BUT OTHERWISE, ALL THE TABLES WERE FILLED OF THE PLANNERS.
BUT THERE WAS ONLY ONE OTHER PERSON FROM THE PUBLIC WHO SPOKE BESIDES ME, IF THAT WAS WHAT YOU'RE ASKING?
>> THEY'RE THE APPOINTED AROUND THE U TABLE.
THOSE ARE THE APPOINTED PEOPLE THAT ARE REVIEWING.
THEY'RE OFFICIALLY A PART OF THAT REVIEW COMMITTEE.
>> YES. WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
I THINK YOU DID DO A GOOD JOB OF CAPTURING OUR PERSPECTIVES AND VIEWPOINTS ON HERITAGE IN THE CITY, AND WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOU GOING AND SPEAKING GUESTS ON OUR BEHALF AND AS A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC, TOO, WHO'S CONCERNED ABOUT THESE ISSUES.
>> OF COURSE, MICHELLE, I GUESS, JUST PREPARE YOURSELF FOR QUESTIONS.
>> THIS IS NOT MY FIRST RODEO WITH THEM ON THIS TOPIC, AND NO, I APPRECIATE THAT VERY MUCH.
ELSA WAS THERE IN ATTENDANCE AND GAVE ME SOME VERY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS.
I APPRECIATE YOUR HEADS UP AS WELL.
>> WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE MICHELLE.
IF I'M THE ONLY ONE WHO GOES NEXT WEEK, YOU COULD PROVIDE A REPORT ON WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT MEETING IN MAY, PLEASE.
>> JUST FOR THIS GROUP. I CAN DO THAT.
GREAT. ANY OTHER ITEMS? I DECLARE THIS MEETING OF THE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION ON MAY 15TH, 2024 OVER BY UNANIMOUS CONSENT AT 5:35.
>> [INAUDIBLE] MEETING.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.