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[00:00:03]

>> YEAH. THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR BEING HERE FOR OUR LAUNCH DAY.

THE AGENDA HERE; DAKOTA CITY COUNCIL RETREAT OF SEPTEMBER 30TH, 2021 TO ORDER.

[1. Call to Order NOTICE OF OPTION TO RECESS INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION Pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.02, notice is hereby given to the members of the City Council and to the general public that, at this work session, the City Council may vote to go into executive session, which will not be open to the public, for legal advice and discussion with the City’s attorneys for legal advice on any item listed on the following agenda, pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.03(A)(3).]

WE HAVE AN AMERICAN FLAG, DON'T WE? NO. WHICH WAY TO EAST, THAT WAY?

>> THAT WAY.

>> THAT WAY, OKAY. COMPLETELY OPPOSITE [LAUGHTER].

YOU'RE JOINING OUR LEADERS IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.

>> THANK YOU AND MCCARTHY, YOU WANT TO GIVE OUR MISSION STATEMENT AND WHAT ELSE?

>> THE MISSION OF THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF IS TO PROTECT AND ENHANCE THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR ALL.

[OVERLAPPING] [LAUGHTER].

>> ROLE CALL.

>> MAYOR DEASY.

>> HERE.

>> VICE-MAYOR DAGGETT.

>> HERE.

>> COUNCIL MEMBER ASLAN.

>> HERE.

>> COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY.

>> HERE.

>> COUNCIL MEMBER SALAS.

>> PRESENT.

>> COUNCIL MEMBER [INAUDIBLE].

>> HERE.

>> COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET.

>> HERE.

>> AWESOME. THEN THE AGENDA ITEM 4; WELCOMING INTRODUCTIONS.

[4. Welcome and Introductions]

I'LL ASK DAGGETT.

>> THANK YOU, MAYOR. WITH YOUR APPROVAL, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE PROVERBIAL GAVEL TODAY FOR MYSELF AND FOR OUR FACILITATOR WHO I WILL INTRODUCE HERE.

THANK YOU. WELCOME, EVERYBODY.

GOOD MORNING. WELCOME TO THE SEPTEMBER 30TH COUNCIL STAFF RETREAT.

WE DO HAVE A BUSY AGENDA TODAY AND WE DO HAVE A FACILITATOR.

IN JUST A SECOND I'M GOING TO INTRODUCE HER, BUT I THOUGHT I WOULD GET THINGS ROLLING HERE.

IT'S A GREAT AGENDA TODAY.

WE HAVE FOOD AND COFFEE IN THE BACK AND WATER, GET COMFORTABLE STRAPPING, GET READY FOR A VERY INFORMATIONAL EXCHANGE TODAY.

THERE WILL BE FOUR TOPICS, TWO THIS MORNING, TWO THIS AFTERNOON.

I ALWAYS LIKE TO PREFACE THESE MEETINGS WITH A LITTLE BIT OF STUDY THE STAGE, IF YOU WILL, SOME PROTOCOL THAT WE FOLLOW AT THE RETREATS.

I'M GOING TO DO SO THIS TIME BY ACKNOWLEDGING, HERE WE ARE INDOORS, WHICH IS GREAT, BUT WE'RE WEARING MASKS AND THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT.

WE'RE GOING TO ABIDE BY CDC GUIDELINES TODAY.

AS BURDENSOME AS THAT MAY BE, IT JUST MEANS WE HAVE TO TAKE EXTRA EFFORT TO AMPLIFY, MAKE SURE EVERYBODY CAN HEAR US.

WE ARE LIVE STREAMING.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WILL BE WATCHING REMOTELY OR PARTICIPATING REMOTELY.

BECAUSE OF THAT, THE FIRST THING I WOULD ASK IS THAT IF SOMEBODY HAS QUESTIONS TODAY OR COMMENTS, WE PROBABLY NEED TO DO THE HAND-RAISING PROTOCOL, IF THAT'S OKAY.

WE WILL LOOK FOR HANDS RAISED OUT HERE IN THE ROOM.

FOR THOSE WHO ARE ATTENDING VIRTUALLY IF YOU CAN EITHER POST A Q OR C IN THE CHAT COLUMN OR RAISE YOUR HAND VIRTUALLY.

WE WILL ALSO BE MONITORING FOR THAT.

THANK YOU FOR THAT. ON THE SUBJECT OF COMMUNICATION, THESE RETREATS ARE GENERALLY STRUCTURED TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMAL, THEY ARE NOT LIKE A FORMAL COUNCIL MEETING WHERE WE HAVE THE DAIS, AND THE PODIUM, AND THE AUDIENCE, AND A VERY STRUCTURED FORMAT.

THESE ARE A LITTLE BIT MORE DESIGNED TO BE ENGAGING AND EVEN AT TIMES FREE-FLOWING.

IT'S INTENDED TO BE A TWO-WAY COMMUNICATION BETWEEN COUNCIL AND STAFF AND THE CONSULTANTS WHO WILL BE JOINING US TODAY.

WE WILL INVITE QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS ON THE FLY IF IT'S APPROPRIATE AND IF IT'S ON-POINT.

WE DO HAVE SOME STRUCTURED PUBLIC COMMENTS AT THE END OF THE MORNING SESSION AND THE END OF THE AFTERNOON SESSION.

NOW, WITH THAT INFORMALITY NOTED, IT COMES WITH A COUPLE OF COMMENTS OR REQUESTS.

THAT IS THIS; IF WE WANT TO GET THROUGH THIS BUSY AGENDA AND WE DO, AND WE WANT TO HEAR FROM EVERYBODY AND HAVE AN ENGAGING DISCUSSION AND WE DO, IT PUTS A MANDATE ON ALL OF US TO BE CONCISE AND TO ONLY SPEAK WHEN WE REALLY HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER INTO THE DISCUSSION, EITHER AS A COMMENT OR A QUESTION.

WE RESPECTFULLY ASK THAT IF YOU DO WANT TO ENGAGE, THINK ABOUT WHAT IT IS YOU WANT TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE CONVERSATION MAYBE A LITTLE BIT BEFOREHAND, AND BE SOMEWHAT CONCISE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.

IF WE DELVE TOO MUCH INTO A FREE-FLOWING DIALOGUE,

[00:05:04]

IT WILL GET US OFF TRACK.

WE WANT TO KEEP THIS MEETING AT A HIGH LEVEL TODAY.

SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO GET INTO A LITTLE BIT OF MINUTIAE, THAT'S NECESSARY.

BUT TODAY IS NOT A DAY TO TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC PROGRAMS OR PROJECTS PER SE, BUT RATHER TO BE THINKING BIG.

THIS IS BIG PICTURE STUFF.

I HAD THE HONOR [LAUGHTER] TO BE IN A DEPOSITION RECENTLY AND THE ATTORNEYS WHO WERE PREPARING ME, AND I DO NOT ENVY THEM FOR THAT TASK, THEY WERE PREPARING ME HOW TO SPEAK WHEN YOU'RE BEING ASKED QUESTIONS IN A MORE FORMAL SETTING.

THE ONE THING THAT RESONATED MOST OF ALL THAT MORNING WAS THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SAY BEFORE YOU SAY IT.

ALMOST VISUALIZE IT IN YOUR HEAD AS YOU'RE WRITING IT DOWN MENTALLY BEFORE YOU SAY IT.

I THOUGHT THOSE WERE WORDS OF WISDOM AND I CARRIED THAT THOUGHT, THAT ADVISEMENT WITH ME FOR THE REST OF THE DAY INTO THE NEXT DAY.

I WAS REALLY EXCITED ABOUT HIS NEWFOUND WISDOM AND HOW I COMMUNICATE.

IN FACT, I EVEN TRIED IT AT HOME WITH MY SPOUSE AT THE DINNER TABLE [LAUGHTER] WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HOUSE PROJECTS AND IT DID NOT GO WELL.

[LAUGHTER] MY COMMENT IS, DON'T EVER USE THAT ONE ON YOUR SPOUSE.

[LAUGHTER] BUT I DO THINK IN THE PROFESSIONAL REALM, THERE IS WISDOM TO IT.

EVEN THOUGH I SAY IT ALL AND JUST THE IDEA HERE TODAY IS BE VERY THOUGHTFUL WITH OUR COMMUNICATIONS SO THAT WE CAN GET THROUGH THIS AGENDA.

NOW, I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE SOMEBODY WHO MOST OF YOU MAY KNOW.

[5. Infrastructure Retreat - Morning Session Presentation and Discussion Wastewater Infrastructure Stormwater Infrastructure]

SHE HAS HELPED THIS IN THIS CAPACITY BEFORE, I THINK IN THIS VERY ROOM, MAYBE NOT. OKAY. DIFFERENT ROOM.

>> VIRTUALLY.

>> VIRTUALLY. OH, [OVERLAPPING] THIS IS FIRST TIME IN PERSON AND WE ARE SO GLAD TO HAVE YOU IN PERSON.

NICOLE LANDS IS THE PERFECT FACILITATOR FOR THIS MORNING.

WHY? BECAUSE HE HAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT EXPERIENCE AND NOT JUST THAT, BUT HE'S TOTALLY GERMANE TO THE THINGS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY.

SHE HAS BEEN AT THE HELM IN PARKS AND REC, PUBLIC WORKS, BUDGET, AND CITY MANAGEMENT.

SHE'S WORKED IN ARIZONA, THE TOWNS OF SURPRISE AND GILBERT.

SHE'S TRYING TO FIND HER WAY TO FLAGSTAFF.

WE CAN'T WAIT FOR THAT TO HAPPEN.

SHE WILL BE FACILITATING TODAY, AND I'M GOING TO TURN THE GAVEL OVER TO HER IN JUST A SECOND, AND SHE CAN GO THROUGH HER GROUND RULES AND SUGGEST THE PROTOCOL.

BUT AS A FACILITATOR, SHE'S GOING TO KEEP US ON TASK AND ON TIME, AND WE'LL BOTH ENDEAVOR TO DO THAT, FRANKLY.

THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING US THIS OPPORTUNITY.

WE DO WANT TO COVER SOME GROUND TODAY.

THESE FOUR TOPICS ARE ALL VERY IMPORTANT.

THE THEME TODAY, BY THE WAY, IF YOU HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THE AGENDA, AND HOPEFULLY YOU HAVE.

THE THEME TODAY IS INFRASTRUCTURE.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT STUFF, BRICKS-AND-MORTAR STUFF, PIPES, BUILDINGS, EQUIPMENT, PHYSICAL, TANGIBLE THINGS.

INFRASTRUCTURE, I DON'T MIND CHARACTERIZING, THIS IS AT THE CORE OF WHAT WE DO IN CITY SERVICES.

WHEN DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE CORE SERVICES THAT WE PROVIDE, WE ARE IN A CORE SERVICES FACILITY RIGHT NOW, BEING THAT OF PUBLIC WORKS AT PARKS AND REC.

IT'S THE PIPES IN THE GROUND, IT'S THE STREETS THAT WE DRIVE OR RIDE ON, OR THE SIDEWALKS WE WALK ON.

IT IS THE TREATMENT OF OUR WATER, BOTH ON THE DELIVERY SIDE AND ON THE COLLECTION SIDE.

IT IS ALL OF THESE THINGS.

IT IS PUBLIC SAFETY FOR SURE, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE THINGS TODAY.

WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT WASTEWATER, WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT STORMWATER, WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT STREET INFRASTRUCTURE, PRIMARILY, BICYCLE INFRASTRUCTURE, AND WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY EQUIPMENT.

INFRASTRUCTURES IS THE THEME SO GET YOURSELF INTO THAT SORT OF REALM, THAT MINDSET.

THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TODAY.

WE SO MUCH THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENDANCE.

WITH THAT, NICOLE, ARE YOU READY?

>> I'M READY.

>> TAKE OVER, PLEASE.

>> GOOD MORNING. GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

NICE TO KNOW EVERYBODY HAS LEGS, THAT'S THE CHAIN, THE VIRTUAL MEETING SETTING.

I DIDN'T HAVE MY VEST ANYMORE FOR MY PUBLIC WORKS DAYS SO THIS WAS LIKE THE NEXT BEST THING.

I FIGURE IT'S NOT ALSO APPROVED, BUT IT PROBABLY COULD BE IF I NEEDED IT TO.

COUNSELING FOR TEAM HERE AS WE GO THROUGH THE MEETING TODAY, JUST A QUICK REMINDER, IF YOU RECALL FROM OUR VIRTUAL SESSION, I FACILITATE USING A SERIES OF WHAT I CALL POLARITIES.

THINKING OF A CONTINUUM, BUT NOT FROM GOOD TO BAD, NOT FROM ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER, BUT TWO THINGS THAT ARE OFTEN MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

IT'S MY JOB TODAY TO MANAGE BETWEEN THE POLARITIES THAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN.

[00:10:02]

THESE ARE THE ONES WE USED LAST TIME.

EFFICIENT PACE, CONVERSATIONS, GETTING THE CLARITY WE NEED, BUT ALSO UNDERSTANDING SOMETIMES THERE MIGHT BE SOME AMBIGUITY AND SOME THINGS THAT WE COMMIT TO FIGURING OUT.

I'LL BE WATCHING FOR ALL OF THESE THROUGHOUT THE DAY.

FOR THIS RETREAT BECAUSE OF THE TOPIC, I ADDED A FEW.

ONE OF THEM IS RESPONDING AND REACTING.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A REACTION TO WHAT WE HEAR, AND THAT'S A GOOD THING.

THAT'S INSTRUCTIVE, HELPS US UNDERSTAND WHAT WE MIGHT HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT.

BUT ULTIMATELY WHAT WE WANT TO BE LOOKING TOWARDS DOING IS RESPONDING.

THAT BEING INTENTIONAL TO GREG'S POINTS ABOUT HOW WE COMMUNICATE, BEING REALLY INTENTIONAL WITH WHAT WE'RE PUTTING OUT THERE.

WE'RE ALSO GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THAT POLARITY BETWEEN ONGOING MITIGATION EXPENSES, SO WHAT ARE THOSE THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING WHEN WE HAVE SOME OF THESE BIGGER INFRASTRUCTURE ISSUES THAT ARE CAUSING EXPENSES, AND WHAT MIGHT NEED TO BE ONE TIME MITIGATION EXPENSES.

BALANCING BETWEEN THAT DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS AND SOME OF THAT INFRASTRUCTURE CORE SERVICES, SO BALANCING THAT CONVERSATIONAL FOCUS THERE.

THEN LASTLY, PILOT PROJECTS AND ESTABLISHED COMMITMENTS.

REALLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT ARE THINGS THAT WE'RE TRYING AND HOW DO WE LOOK AND TALK ABOUT THOSE THINGS THAT EVALUATE THEM, AND THEN WHAT ARE THE ONES THAT WE HAVE THAT WE KNOW THESE ARE ONGOING COMMITMENTS.

THERE'S A COUPLE OF KEEP IN MIND SPECIFIC TO TODAY.

GREG COVERED MOST OF THEM.

THIS OPEN COLLABORATIVE DIALOGUE.

INSTEAD OF JUST ONE WAY INFORMATION WILL BE THAT COLLABORATION, THAT BIG PICTURE THINKING.

THE FACILITATOR WILL FACILITATE, MARY COUNCIL GET TO PARTICIPATE, AND STAFF REALLY IS LEADING SOME PARTS OF THE DISCUSSION TODAY.

THEN AS GREG MENTIONED, THAT FOCUS FOR TODAY IS INFRASTRUCTURE.

THINK THE STUFF, THE PHYSICAL ASSETS, THE EQUIPMENT.

WHAT I WOULD SAY IS MOST OF THE STUFF AIN'T CHEAP.

AS WE GO THROUGH THIS, AND THAT'S WHY THE POLARITY OF REACTING VERSUS RESPONDING IS THEN THERE.

WHEN WE GET STICKER SHOCK OR WE GO, HOW MANY ZEROS ARE ON THE END OF THAT? HOW MANY COMMAS ARE IN THAT NUMBER? ACTUALLY, JUST TO RELY ON THAT AND SAY, HERE'S WHAT I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT.

SEE THERE, WE JUST LOST HER.

THERE WE GO. THANK YOU FOR TURNING YOUR HEAD.

[LAUGHTER] JUST UNDERSTAND THAT AS WE DO THIS, NONE OF THESE TYPES OF PROJECTS USUALLY COME WITH SMALL PRICE TAGS, SO JUST KEEPING THAT IN MIND.

THEN LASTLY, I WANT TO INTRODUCE A CONVERSATIONAL FRAMEWORK FOR US AS WE GO THROUGH THE ACTUAL DISCUSSION PIECES OF THIS.

THE CONVERSATIONAL FRAMEWORK I PUT IN PLACE IS BECAUSE THERE'S REALLY ONLY TWO THINGS THAT GET IN THE WAY OF PRODUCTIVE DIALOGUE, AND IF WE SOLVE FOR THESE TWO THINGS, THAT'S GOING TO RESOLVE ABOUT 98 PERCENT OF OUR COMMUNICATION ISSUES.

THE TWO THINGS ARE OUR MOUTHS AND OUR BRAINS.

THOSE ARE THE ONLY TWO THINGS WE HAVE TO OVERCOME.

ONE OF THE WAYS TO DO THAT IS BY USING WHAT WE IN ONE OF MY COMPANIES CALLED THE GOALS OF EXTRAORDINARY DIALOGUE.

THOSE OF EXTRAORDINARY DIALOGUE IS A CONVERSATIONAL FRAMEWORK FOR YOU TO COME IN WITH THESE FOUR GOALS INTO ANY CONVERSATION.

NUMBER 1, COME IN WILLING TO LEARN SOMETHING.

DOESN'T MEAN YOU CHANGE YOUR PERSPECTIVE NECESSARILY, BUT YOU'RE OPEN TO LEARNING OR BEING INFORMED MORE.

IT SAYS MIND THE ILLUSION OF CERTAINTY.

THE ILLUSION OF CERTAINTY IS THAT THING THAT MAKES US SAY, I KNOW, I ALREADY KNOW WHAT WE NEED TO DO, I ALREADY KNOW WHAT THEY NEED TO SAY.

EVERYBODY'S NEEDS TO COME TO MY POINT OF VIEW, SO SETTING THAT ASIDE AND SAYING, WHAT CAN I LEARN.

NUMBER 2, FINDING THE TRUTH OR THE BEST PATH FORWARD.

IN A DEBRIEF OR A RETRO FACING SITUATION, WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED? NOT WHAT I THINK HAPPENED, BUT LET'S GET TO THE TRUTH OF IT.

IN A FORWARD FACING SITUATION, THINK OF THAT IS REALLY THE BEST PATH FORWARD.

SETTING ASIDE MY PERCEPTION AND LET'S COME TO AN AGREEMENT REALLY AS A GROUP.

NUMBER 3, PRODUCE RESULTS.

WE ARE HERE TO HAVE CONVERSATION, TO BE INFORMED, BUT FOR A PURPOSE.

SO IF WE FIND OURSELVES GETTING INTO CONVERSATIONS THAT REALLY AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE OR REALLY HAVE LOST THAT ELEMENT OF PRODUCTIVITY, ASK THIS QUESTION, ARE WE MOVING TOWARDS ACTION? IS THIS CONVERSATION STILL HELPING US MOVE FORWARD.

THEN NUMBER 4, AS MY DAD WOULD SAY, SAYS EASY, DOES HARD.

COME IN WITH A GOAL OF STRENGTHENING RELATIONSHIPS? NOW, IT SAYS NO LOWER BACK TATTOOS WAS REQUIRED BECAUSE I DON'T MEAN COME OUT OF EVERY CONVERSATION HOLDING HANDS AND TAKING SELFIES AND GETTING MATCHING LOWER BACK TATTOOS.

[LAUGHTER] WHAT IT DOES MEAN IS THAT EVEN IF I'M IN DISAGREEMENT WITH THE OTHER PERSON, CAN I STILL BEHAVE IN A WAY THAT COULD STRENGTHEN THE RELATIONSHIP? CAN I STILL INFLUENCE MY OWN BEHAVIOR SO THAT THAT'S A SIGNAL TO THE OTHER PERSON.

THAT IS THE ENTER INTO THESE CONVERSATIONS, KEEPING THAT IN MIND.

TWO HOUSEKEEPING ITEMS. NUMBER 1, IF YOU NEED THE RESTROOMS, THEY ARE OUT THAT DOOR AND IMMEDIATELY TO THE LEFT.

THEN PER STACY'S REQUESTS, BECAUSE WE ARE DOING THE STREAMING.

IF ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE IN THE BACK IS RESPONDING TO A QUESTION OR HAS

[00:15:02]

A QUESTION TO COME FORWARD TO THIS CENTER TABLE NOT SO WE CAN ALL STARE AT YOU MORE CLOSELY, ALTHOUGH THAT'S A SIDE BENEFIT, BUT SO THAT WE CAN GET YOU ON THE MICROPHONE FOR THE STREAMING.

>> SOUNDS GREAT.

>> WITH THAT, WE WILL START WITH WASTEWATER.

>> YEAH.

>> [NOISE] WASTEWATER.

>> YES. [LAUGHTER]

>> FIRST PRESENTATION THIS MORNING, ARE WE READY? ARE WE CUED UP? SIX VOTES.

>> DO YOU WANT WALK-UP MUSIC, ANDY? [LAUGHTER]

>> I'VE DECIDED THAT I'M GOING TO TRY TO [OVERLAPPING].

>> ANDY, YOU'RE TAKING THIS OFF.

WOULD YOU BE SO KIND AS TO MAKE ANY INTRODUCTIONS FOR OUR GUESTS WHO ARE JOINING US TODAY AND HELPING WITH THE PRESENTATION.

>> WILL DO.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, GREG. THANK YOU, NICOLE.

NICOLE AND I HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER A LONG TIME.

I REALLY APPRECIATE THE ENERGY THAT SHE BRINGS TO THE DAY, AND TO LIFE, AND TO THE WORLD, SO THANKS NICOLE.

WE'RE GOING TO START OUT WITH A TOPIC THAT WE ALL KNOW AND LOVE, WASTEWATER.

WITH THAT, I'D LIKE TO KICK IT OFF A LITTLE BIT. WATER SERVICES.

STARTING MY FOURTH WEEK AS THE INTERIM WATER SERVICES DIRECTOR.

THANK YOU TO THE TEAM FOR WELCOMING ME TO THAT GROUP.

IN STARTING THAT POSITION, I BEGAN IMMEDIATELY WORKING WITH ERIN YOUNG AND GREG CLIF AND THEIR STAFF AND TIM [INAUDIBLE] TO TALK ABOUT OUR WASTEWATER SITUATION.

THEY HAD BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

IN DOING SO, WE BEGIN TO REFINE THIS PRESENTATION OR TODAY'S RETRIEVE.

WITH THAT, WE HAVE BRAD HILL, WHO IS NOW LEGACY MEMBER OF OUR TEAM AND WE'RE SO LUCKY TO STILL HAVE IN HIM ON BOARD.

WE ALSO HAVE JOHN RODNEY AND BRIAN BERNARD, OUR CONSULTANTS THAT ARE HERE.

BECAUSE AS YOU CAN IMAGINE WITH WATER, WASTEWATER, AND ALL OF THE OPERATIONS THAT WE HAVE IN WATER SERVICES, WE HAVE A RETRIEVAL TEAM FOR OPERATIONS.

THEN WE NEED TO BRING IN THESE OUTSIDE VOICES, JUST LIKE WE BROUGHT IN NICOLE TODAY, TO HELP US UNDERSTAND WHAT OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE DOING, HOW WE'RE MEETING OUR STANDARDS, AND HOW WE ARE PROVIDING THE BEST INFRASTRUCTURE POSSIBLE FOR OUR COMMUNITY.

OUR COMMUNITY DESERVES IT, AND THIS GROUP DELIVERS IT.

WITH THAT, WE'LL KICK IT OFF AND WE'LL GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED.

THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO OUR WASTEWATER PRESENTATION.

>> THANKS, A LOT.

>> I'M JOHN [INAUDIBLE] . I'M ONE OF THE CONSULTANTS.

CAN YOU GUYS HEAR ME OKAY? I HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF GOING THROUGH THE WASTEWATER PRESENTATIONS HERE TODAY, I ASSUME WE'RE PILOTING AND I JUST TELL YOU TO ADVANCE THE SLIDE.

>> YOU CAN OR YOU CAN [OVERLAPPING].

>> GOT IT. JUST WILL WORK OUT EFFECTS.

LET ME JUST SEE. I'M JUST WHAT AN ACTIVATE YOUR ADVANCING.

PERFECT. WHY AM I UP HERE GIVING THE PRESENTATION? I WORK IN THE WATER INDUSTRY AND I WORK WITH CLIENTS AS LARGE AS THE LOS ANGELES DEPARTMENT OF WATER AND POWER.

JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, I DID FACILITATE AND WRITE YOUR CURRENT STRATEGIC PLAN, WHICH IS A GREAT DOCUMENT WHICH WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT IN A FEW MINUTES.

THAT'S MY BACKGROUND.

I TEND TO BRIDGE THE GAP BETWEEN PLANNING AND COMMUNICATIONS, AND UTILITIES, AND WORK WITH THEM ON STRATEGIC RELATIONSHIPS AND SO FORTH.

GREG'S COMMENT REMINDED ME OF SOMETHING AND I DON'T THINK THIS GOES AGAINST ANYTHING YOU SAID NICOLE.

BUT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE LEARNED AND I TEACH MY CLIENTS, WHAT WATER UTILITIES DOES.

WHEN YOU'RE IN A PUBLIC ENVIRONMENT, LISTEN TO UNDERSTAND NOT TO RESPOND.

I ACTUALLY IMPLEMENTED THAT WITH MY SPOUSE AND IT TENDS TO WORK AND SHE'S KOREAN, SO IT'S A SECOND LANGUAGE, IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT TOPIC.

ONE LAST THING BEFORE I GET INTO THE PRESENTATION IS THAT WE TEND TO THINK BECAUSE THE WATER IS ALWAYS COMING OUT OF THE TAP AND IT'S BEEN RELIABLE FOR YEARS, THAT IT'S AUTOMATIC.

BUT I THINK MOST OF YOU KNOW, AND THIS IS A BIG MESSAGE THAT I FEEL WITH A LOT OF MY CLIENTS ON.

WATER RELIABILITY COMES FROM SOUND PLANNING AND APPROPRIATE BEST.

WATER SERVICES DEPARTMENT IS CONSTANTLY DOING THINGS THAT DAY-TO-DAY THAT ENSURED THIS RELIABILITY.

I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER.

A LOT OF WORK NOW GETS PUT INTO THE WATER RELIABILITY TODAY AND TOMORROW PROGRAM.

THERE'S AN ARCHIVE FOR THAT PROGRAM, JUST SOME BASICS HERE.

MOVING ON ON TODAY'S TOPICS.

OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE GOING TO START OUT WITH WASTEWATER TREATMENT, SOME OBJECTIVES AND STANDARDS.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE TWO PLANTS THAT FLAGSTAFF HAS

[00:20:01]

AND AS FAR AS WATER RECLAMATION PLANTS.

THEN FROM THAT POINT ON WE'RE GOING TO FOCUS MOSTLY ON THE WILDCAT HILL PLANT AND THE SITUATION THERE.

WE'LL GET INTO SOME HISTORY OF THE WILDCAT HILL PLANT, PLANT ISSUES AND URGENCY RELATED TO THE PLANT.

THOSE REALLY BOIL DOWN TO A COUPLE OF ISSUES: SOLID TREATMENT, HANDLING, CAPACITY AND IMPROVEMENTS.

THEN OPTIONS FOR INCREASING THE WILDCAT HILL HYDRAULIC CAPACITY.

THEN FINALLY, WE'RE REALLY JUST STARTING THE DISCUSSION TODAY, WHAT WILL THE FUTURE DISCUSSIONS WASTEWATER LOOK LIKE IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

THOSE WILL BE HAPPENING OVER THE NEXT YEAR OR SO, BECAUSE THERE IS SOME URGENCY RELATED TO THESE ISSUES.

NOW, NICOLE, I'M GOING TO PAUSE A LITTLE BIT TO READ THE SLIDE IN CASE SOMEBODY HAS A QUESTION.

IT'S A GOOD PLACE TO START WITH THE 2025 STRATEGIC PLAN.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE STRATEGIC PLAN, IT BASICALLY HAS 10 STRATEGIC OBJECTIVES IN THERE.

EACH ONE OF THOSE STRATEGIC OBJECTIVES COVERS THREE MAIN ISSUES: WHAT ARE THE STANDARDS THAT APPLY TO THE ISSUE? WHAT ARE SOME OF THE CHALLENGES OR PROBLEMS THAT WE FACE WITH RESPECT TO SPECIFIC OBJECTIVE? WHAT ARE SOME PROPOSED SOLUTIONS? IN THIS STRATEGIC PLAN, NONE OF THIS WAS FINAL POLICY DECISIONS, IT WAS BASICALLY JUST SETTING UP THE DIALOGUE, FUTURE DECISIONS LIKE COUNSEL AND SO FORTH.

BY THE WAY, THIS PLAN IS A PRETTY GOOD READ, IT GIVES YOU A GREAT OVERVIEW OF THE ISSUES.

IT'S ABOUT A 30 MINUTE READ.

IT DOESN'T TAKE LONG TO GET THROUGH IT.

IF YOU LOOK AT THESE STRATEGIC OBJECTIVES YOU CAN SEE, ADDRESS WILDCAT HILL WASTEWATER RECLAMATION PLANT CAPACITY IS ONE OF THE HIGHEST ON THE LIST.

THEN RIGHT AFTER THAT, WILDFIRE THREATS AND STORMWATER, AND THESE WEREN'T ORDERED LOOSELY IN ORDER OF URGENCY IN THE PLANT.

MOVING ON. THIS IS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT AREA OF MY WORK, IN TERMS OF REALLY EMPHASIZING STANDARDS IN OUR PLANNING AND IN COMMUNICATIONS.

YOU CAN SEE THE FIRST OBJECTIVE IN THE STRATEGIC PLAN IS TO USE STANDARDS OF DATA TO DERIVE DECISION-MAKING.

FRANKLY, IN ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT WATER ISSUES, IF YOU'RE JUST DISCUSSING WHAT THE RELEVANT STANDARDS ARE, IT'S A VERY MEANINGFUL DISCUSSION BECAUSE A HIGHER STANDARD USUALLY COSTS MORE MONEY, A LOWER STANDARD COST LESS MONEY.

IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THE DIALOGUE.

BASICALLY, I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT SOME HIGH LEVEL STANDARDS HERE.

ONE IS, OBVIOUSLY, MEET OR SURPASS ALL CLEAN WATER ACT STANDARDS, WHICH IS REALLY THE REGULATIONS THAT APPLY TO WASTEWATER DISCHARGE INTO THE ENVIRONMENT AND TREATMENTS.

THE RESILIENCY ISSUE HERE IS WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN PUBLIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH DURING ALL SORTS OF CRAZY SITUATIONS, FIRES, STORMS, EVEN PANDEMICS.

THAT'S REALLY OUR RESILIENCY STANDARD.

WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 24/7 CRITICAL OPERATION FUNCTIONS, YOU REALLY WANT AN EXTREMELY LOW RISK OF FAILURE FOR THOSE OPTIONS.

YOU REALLY CAN'T HAVE A WASTEWATER PLANT GOING DOWN FOR WEEKS AT A TIME.

IT'S JUST A BIG PROBLEM AND IT'S NOT ONLY A COMPLIANCE PROBLEM, ESCAPE PUBLIC PERCEPTION ISSUE AS WELL.

IN ADDITION TO REPUBLISH DONE CONCERTS.

WE WANT TO HEAR THE PRINCIPLES OF SUSTAINABILITY.

THEN THESE LAST BULLETS HERE RELATE TO THE EFFICIENCY OF THE OPERATIONS AND THE NEED TO REALLY HAVE A MOTIVATED, HIGHLY QUALIFIED, EFFICIENT, AND EFFECTIVE WORKFORCE.

THOSE STANDARDS MAKE SENSE? OBVIOUSLY, THE INTERESTING PART ABOUT THIS IS JIMMY AND HUGO THE WASTEWATER SECTION MANAGER.

HE'S GOT ALL SORTS OF DETAIL LEVEL STANDARDS THAT REALLY ADDRESSED SPECIFIC CONTAMINANT LEVELS AND ALL SORTS.

THESE ARE JUST OUR HIGH LEVEL STANDARDS.

I'M GOING TO MOVE ON. YOU GUYS PROBABLY KNOW THIS WELL TO RECLAMATION PLANTS IN FLAGSTAFF, WILDCAT HILL IS A 6 MILLION GALLONS PER DAY PLANT.

HAS BOTH LIQUIDS TREATMENT CAPACITY AND BIOSOLIDS TREATMENT, IN HANDLING CAPACITY AT THE WILDCAT HILL SITE.

RIO DE FLAG IS MORE OF A SATELLITE PLANT RATED AT 4 MILLION GALLONS PER DAY.

REALLY SET UP TO CREATE THAT LESSER RECLAIMED WATER FOR THE COMMUNITY.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND IS THE BIO-SOLIDS FROM THE RIO DE FLAG ARE ACTUALLY SENT VIA THE WASTEWATER SYSTEM TO WILDCAT HILL PLANT FOR SUPPLY AND PROCESS.

PRETTY SIMPLE IN TERMS OF THE TWO PLANTS.

LET'S LOOK AT SOME HISTORY NOW.

1971, WILDCAT HILL WAS CONSTRUCTED.

ITS INITIAL CAPACITY IS 3 MILLION GALLONS PER DAY.

[00:25:04]

INTERESTINGLY, YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN IN THE RECLAIMED WATER BUSINESS FOR QUITE AWHILE, WHILE AT THAT POINT YOU WERE DELIVERING THE CLASS B RECLAIMED WATER TO THE CONTINENTAL COUNTRY CLUB.

WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE BIO-SOLIDS BEING PROCESSED ON-SITE.

1981 IS WHEN WILDCAT HILL WAS EXPANDED TO 6 MGD.

IF YOU LOOK AT IT, THE 6 MGD CAPACITY OF THE PLANT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR ABOUT 40 YEARS RIGHT NOW.

1993, THE RIO DE FLAG PLANT IS CONSTRUCTED AS THE SATELLITE PLANT.

IT BASICALLY RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE WAS PRODUCING CLASS A PLUS RECLAIMED WATER.

WHERE, WHAT'S GOING INTO YOUR NAPOLEONIC PURPLE PIPE SYSTEMS TODAY.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THESE CLASSES ARE NOT JUST A FLAGSTAFF CLASS, IT'S AN ARIZONA REGULATORY LEVEL OF WATER QUALITY.

2009, WILDCAT HILL WAS BASICALLY JUST UPGRADED TO BE ABLE TO PRODUCE THAT CLASS A PLUS WATER.

ALSO, TO NOTE THAT EVEN THOUGH QUITE A BIT OF A FEW DOLLARS WERE SPENT AT THAT TIME, NO LIQUIDS OR BIOSOLIDS CAPACITY EXPANSION WAS DONE AT THAT TIME.

SO, ONLY PORTIONS OF THE PLANT WERE UPGRADED.

REMEMBER, IN HISTORY, WE DID HAVE A 2013 CONSENT ORDER.

IT RELATED TO PROBLEMS WITH BEING ABLE TO PRODUCE THE FULL A PLUS WATER.

TEMPORARY SOLUTIONS ARE SOLUTIONS WERE PUT IN PLACE THAT ARE STILL IN PLACE.

I THINK JIM, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT YOU'VE BEEN FULL COMPLIANCE SINCE THEN, AND I THINK YOU GOT LIKE THREE YEARS OF COMPLIANCE AWARDS RELATED TO THAT. IS THAT CORRECT? [OVERLAPPING].

>> YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT.

>> ALL RIGHT. GREAT.

THAT'S BASICALLY THE HISTORY IN A NUTSHELL.

A LOT OF THE INFORMATION IN THE PRESENTATION TODAY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DETAILS OF WASTEWATER TREATMENT, SO FORTH, IS COMING OUT OF THE 2019 MASTER PLAN, PRODUCED BY CAROLLO ENGINEERS.

ALTHOUGH IT SAYS IT'S A BIOSOLIDS MASTER PLAN, IT PROVIDES A PRETTY COMPREHENSIVE LOOK AT THE WHOLE WASTEWATER TREATMENT FUNCTION AND RECLAMATION ISSUES.

YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THE ISSUES IT DISCUSSES, CAPACITY, PLANT CONDITION.

OBVIOUSLY, YOU DON'T ALWAYS HAVE TO CONSIDER REGULATIONS WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH WASTEWATER, EXPANSION OPTIONS, BOTH FROM STANDPOINT OF SIZE AND TERMS OF CAPACITY, AND THEN TECHNOLOGY RECOMMENDATIONS WHICH TEND TO RELATE TO WHAT'S THE QUALITY WE NEED FOR CERTAIN CLASSES OF RECLAIMED WATER.

THEN IT WENT AS FAR AS CONCEPTUAL PLANT LAYOUTS AND PROVIDING COST ESTIMATES ON SOME OF THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS.

THERE'S SOME REALLY BIG INTERESTING TRENDS HERE IN WASTEWATER SINCE 2008, AND IT REALLY RELATES TO LIQUID FLOW AND SOLIDS LOADING CHANGES FOR FLOODING STEP.

IF THERE'S AN ATYPICAL FOR OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT ARE INVOLVED IN WATER CONSERVATION TO EXPERIENCE THESE TYPES OF ISSUES.

BUT BASICALLY, WATER CONSERVATION, AND REMEMBER, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CONSERVATION OR WASTEWATER FLOWS, WE'RE TYPICALLY TALKING ABOUT INDOOR WATER USE.

IT FITS INTO THE SEWER SYSTEM.

BUT WATER CONSERVATION HAS BEEN DIPPED DOWN, HAS DECREASED PER PERSON WASTEWATER FLOWS.

THOSE ARE TYPICALLY REPORTED IN GALLONS PER CAPITA PER DAY, AND YOU CAN SEE THE NUMBERS HERE.

THIS HAS DROPPED FROM 84 TO 69, WHICH IS AN 18 PERCENT DROP IN THE PER CAPITA PER DAY.

POPULATION GROUP BULGING AT 16 PERCENT IN THAT SAME TIME/PERIOD.

WHAT HAVE WE GOT GOING ON HERE? PLANT INFLOW HAS DECREASED BY SIX PERCENT BUT THE SOLIDS LOADING HAS INCREASED BY 30 PERCENT.

IF YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT, WE'RE NOT TREATING WATER WHEN IT COMES THROUGH THE PLANT, WE'RE TREATING THE CONTAMINANTS OR THE SOLIDS IN THE WATER.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE NET RESULT HERE, THE WILDCAT HILL PLANT NO LONGER REALLY OPERATES AT A CAPACITY OF 6 MILLION GALLONS PER DAY.

THAT CAPACITY IN TERMS OF HYDRAULIC WATER MOVING THROUGH THE PLANT HAS BEEN REDUCED TO 4.8 MILLION GALLONS PER DAY.

THAT'S AN IMPORTANT POINT.

>> QUESTION?

>> WHAT WOULD YOU CONTRIBUTE THAT WATER CONSERVATION TO? EDUCATION EFFORTS TO BRING NEW TECHNOLOGIES OF TOILETS?

>> I'M ASSUMING [OVERLAPPING] THAT ITS ALL PART OF [INAUDIBLE], I THINK GOT A PRETTY GOOD CONSERVATION PROGRAM THAT DOES COMMUNICATIONS, DEVICE SWAP OUTS.

YOU GUYS CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG ON THIS, BUT THESE ARE,

[00:30:03]

I BELIEVE PROACTIVE EFFORTS BY WATER SERVICES.

>> IT STARTED LATER ON THAT [INAUDIBLE].

>> I'LL TRY TO JUST BE SUCCINCT HERE, BUT STARTING IN 1990, THAT'S WHEN CITY COUNCIL TOOK A BIG PUSH TOWARDS CONSERVATION THROUGH IMPLEMENTING A TOILET REBATE PROGRAM AND ALSO A TIERED RATE FOR RESIDENTIAL.

THOSE WERE REALLY BIG HITTERS IN THE CONSERVATION PROGRAM.

WE HAD AN INCREASING GALLON PER CAPITA WATER USE AND IT STARTED DECREASING.

WE'VE BEEN DECREASING EVER SINCE THAT TIME THROUGH EDUCATION AND ADDITIONAL PROGRAMMING BEYOND THAT TIERED RATE, I WOULD SAY IN A BIG PUSH FOR TOILET REBATE.

>> ARE THESE BENCHMARKS THAT WE'RE ARTICULATED THAT YOU'RE HITTING AND SURPASSING? OR WAS IT ALL THE SPEND ARBITRARY?

>> I THINK PRETTY ARBITRARY.

I MEAN, THE RATES WAS INTENTIONAL BUT ANYTHING OTHER THAN RATES, IS PROBABLY CONSIDERED ARBITRARY WITHOUT HAVING GOALS.

ALSO AT THAT TIME IN OUR CITY CODE, WE ADOPTED WATER AVAILABILITY STRATEGIES FOR CURTAILMENT NEEDS IF WE HAD A WATER EMERGENCY.

WE ADOPTED THAT INTO CITY CODE IN 1990 AS WELL, SO WATER AWARENESS JUST STARTED GROWING REALLY ABOUT THAT TIME IN THE COMMUNITY.

>> CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG HERE BUT YOU GUYS HAVEN'T GOING FORWARD WITH THE MASTER PLAN ON CONSERVATION.

THERE'S AN EXPECTATION THAT CONTINUED PROACTIVE CONSERVATION EFFORTS WOULD OCCUR, IS THAT FAIR TO SAY?

>> YES. I MEAN, NOW WE HAVE A WATER CONSERVATION STRATEGIC PLAN.

THAT WAS ADOPTED BY COUNCIL IN, I THINK, NOVEMBER, DECEMBER LAST YEAR.

WATER CONSERVATION IS MORE INTENTIONAL NOW.

WE ADOPTED A PROGRAM IN 2003, JUST THE WATER CONSERVATION PROGRAM WITH A DEDICATED STAFFING AND ENFORCEMENT STAFF FOR THE WATER IN CODE, THE ODD, EVEN WATERING DAYS.

BUT REALLY IT WAS LIKE THAT IN 1990, WORK BY CITY COUNCIL THAT WAS A PIVOTAL POINT IN THE GALLON PER CAPITA WATER USE WHERE WE'RE SEEING THEN THE DECREASE COMING INTO THE WASTEWATER SYSTEM.

SO TRYING TO BE SUCCINCT TO THE CONSERVATION, [LAUGHTER] THAT'S MY RESPONSE

>> THANKS FOR GETTING THAT NOTE.

THAT'S REALLY EXCITING AND SOMETHING TO BE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT.

>> YES.

>> THERE IS SOMETHING [OVERLAPPING].

>> I'M GLAD YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION BECAUSE WE ALL THOUGHT WE'RE GOING TO SEE THAT THIS LITTLE CONSERVATION TRENDS HAS AN EFFECT ON WASTEWATER.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER.

I THINK THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT AS WE GO FORWARD AND LOOK AT THE INFRASTRUCTURE ISSUES GOING FORWARD.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS ONE, FEELS THIS TREND IS AN IMPORTANT THING AS WE GO FORWARD AND I THINK YOU'LL SEE IN THE NEXT FEW SLIDES HOW MEANINGFUL THESE ISSUES ARE.

THIS IS JUST, GOT TO WATCH OUT FOR CHARTS.

BUT THIS GREEN LINE IS JUST SIMPLY SHOWING THAT WE HAVE DATA ON THESE TRENDS RELATED TO THE GALLONS PER DAY PER CAPITA.

THIS RED LINE UP HERE, AND THIS IS GOING TO COME IN THE NEXT FEW SLIDES, IS BASICALLY SAYING THAT WILDCAT HILLS DESIGN FOR 100 GALLONS PER DAY PER CAPITA.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IF YOU'RE REDUCING THE AMOUNT OF WATER THAT'S GOING INTO THE SYSTEM, AND I DON'T WANT TO GET GRAPHIC, BUT PEOPLE AREN'T PRODUCING LESS WASTE, THEN YOU CAN JUST SEE THAT THE CONCENTRATION ISSUE IS CREATIVE.

THAT WAS THE DESIGN STANDARD FOR THE CURRENT PLAN, WHICH ASSUMES [LAUGHTER] A CERTAIN CONCENTRATION WASTE, BUT IF YOU PRODUCE THE WATER, THAT CONCENTRATION WASTE IS GOT OUT. GOT IT?

>> THIS IS WHERE WE DID THIS IN THE MORNING INSTEAD OF THE WORKING ONE.

[LAUGHTER]

>> YEAH, SO WE'LL MOVE ON. [LAUGHTER] THIS IS PROBABLY OUR BUSIEST SLIDE.

WE TRIED TO KEEP THAT DOWN, BUT HERE'S WHAT WE'RE REALLY DEALING WITH IN TERMS OF ISSUES AND URGENCY AT WILDCAT HILL.

WE HAVE TWO CAPACITY ISSUES.

SOLIDS TREATMENT CAPACITY IS 88 PERCENT, LIQUIDS TREATMENT CAPACITY IS AT 87 PERCENT.

IF YOU LOOK MORE HERE ON THE RIGHT SIDE, PER STANDARDS OR POLICIES IN YOUR INTEGRATED MASTER PLAN, IF YOU GO DOWN HERE TO THE 85 PERCENT OF FLOW CAPACITY, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE AT THE BEGIN CONSTRUCTION OF EXPANDED FACILITIES.

[00:35:03]

THAT SHOULD HAVE PUT THESE PERCENTAGES IN CONTEXT, BASICALLY SAYS, WE NEED TO MAKE A DECISION ON WHICH WAY TO GO ON CAPACITY EXPANSION IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

I HAVE TO SAY, THESE AREN'T JUST FLAGSTAFF POLICIES, THESE ARE INDUSTRY STANDARD LEVELS FOR CERTAIN ACTIVITIES LIKE DESIGN OR CONSTRUCTION.

THE SECOND ISSUE WITH THE PLANT, WHICH IS A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE, IS RIGHT NOW WILDCAT HILL BASICALLY HAS A LIMITED, IF NOT KNOWN, REDUNDANCY.

IN OTHER WORDS, THERE ARE MAJOR SYSTEMS THAT IF THEY FAIL, YOU'VE GOT A SHUTDOWN SITUATION, SO YOU'VE GOT MULTIPLE SINGLE POINTS OF POTENTIAL FAILURE IN THE SYSTEM.

THIS NOT ONLY CREATES A RISK FOR NON-COMPLIANCE, WHICH BASICALLY CREATES LIMITED OPERATIONAL AND MECHANICAL FLEXIBILITY.

IF YOU MOVE DOWN TO REHABILITATION IN THE PLACEMENT, REALLY THE LACK OF REDUNDANCY MAKES IT, IF YOU CAN IMAGINE THIS, IF YOU CAN'T TAKE A SYSTEM DOWN, YOU CAN'T DO A COMPLETE REHABILITATION OR UPGRADE ON THAT SYSTEM.

NOW, THIS DIRECTLY THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME BUDGET CONSTRAINTS IN THIS AREA BUT MY UNDERSTANDING, THAT BASICALLY SINCE JIM'S BEEN HERE, HE'S PRETTY MUCH BEEN GETTING THE FUNDING TO DO EVERYTHING HE CAN DO WITHIN THE LIMITS OF THE REDUNDANCY.

IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT, JIM?

>> YES, IT IS.

>> ALL RIGHT. WE'VE GOT THIS LACK OF REDUNDANCY TO MAKE REPAIRS.

FINAL ISSUE IS PEAK FLOW EVENTS INCREASING DUE TO CLIMATE CHANGE.

THAT CAN BE AS MUCH AS THREE TIMES DAILY FLOWS, AND NOT TO GET INTO THE WEEDS, BUT THAT'S OCCURRING WHEN YOU'RE GETTING INFILTRATION AND INFLUENCE TO YOUR WASTEWATER PIPES AND WASHERS, AND THEN YOU'LL GET INCREASED FLOWS THAT GO DIRECTLY TO THE PLANT.

THEN FINALLY, JUST SORT OF A NOTE OVERVIEW ON THIS SLIDE YOU REALLY DO NEED TO BE ENFORCING YOUR INDUSTRIAL PERMITS, BECAUSE WHEN YOU DON'T SOME OF THOSE, THE OUT PERMIT WASTEWATER, SOMETIMES IT'S A NUISANCE BUT IF IT'S REALLY BAD, IT CAN KILL YOUR BIOLOGICAL BACTERIA IN THE PLANT.

THAT WOULD BE A REALLY BAD THIN SO THE NOTE ENFORCING THE INDUSTRIAL PERMITS IS VERY IMPORTANT.

WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE IMPACTS OF CONSERVATION LOWER FLOWS, IF YOU GET STAGNATION IN THE WASTEWATER PIPES, FOR INSTANCE, CORROSION.

THEN THE WASTEWATER ARRIVES WITH DIFFERENT CHARACTERISTICS IF IT'S BEEN SITTING IN THE PIPES.

WELL, SO AGAIN, JUST SOME IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS.

I KNOW THERE'S A LOT ON THAT SLIDE SO I'M GOING TO START THIS UP [OVERLAPPING]

>> TWO QUESTIONS, COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY.

>> I'LL LET YOU [INAUDIBLE].

>> COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY BEAT YOU TO THE PUNCH.

>> IF I UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECTLY, SOME OF OUR STORMWATER GOES INTO OUR SEWAGE SYSTEM.

I KNOW SOME CITIES KEEP THOSE TWO [INAUDIBLE] COMPLETELY SEPARATE BUT IN OUR CASE, SOME OF OUR STORMWATER DOES GO INTO OUR SEWAGE SYSTEM, IS THAT CORRECT? BRAD'S GOING TO ANSWER THAT. [NOISE]

>> I MIGHT [OVERLAPPING].

>> I'M GOING TO ANSWER, SOME OF THE TECHNICAL TEAM SIT UP BY THE MICROPHONE. IS THAT OKAY?

>> YES.

>> HI, THERE. BRAD HILL, YOUR RETIRED WATER SERVICES DIRECTOR.

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, THEY ARE TWO SEPARATE SYSTEMS BUT WHAT HAPPENS IS SINCE THE CITY IS FORTUNATE TO HAVE A COMPLETE GRAVITY FLOW SEWER SYSTEM, AND NOT ANY LIFT STATIONS, THAT BECAUSE THEY'RE IN THE WASHES, THEY DO GET INFILTRATION.

WHEN THESE INCREASE THREE TIMES, IT'S THE WATER FLOWING DOWN THE RAIL, FOR EXAMPLE, OR A MANHOLE IN THE STREET, AND YOU'LL GET INFILTRATION INTO THE SEWER SYSTEM.

THEY ARE NOT A COMBINED SYSTEM LIKE SOMETHING LIKE LOS ANGELES IS, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY ARE SEPARATE.

BUT WE DO GET STORMWATER INFILTRATING IN.

>> IT GOES IN THROUGH MANHOLE COVERS.

>> IT GOES IN THE MANHOLE COVERS OR JOINTS IN THE PIPES, EACH PIPE'S TEN FEET LONG, AND THEN THEY'RE ALL JOINTED TOGETHER.

IT FLOWS IN THAT WAY AS WELL.

>> THEY SHOULD BE THEORETICALLY [INAUDIBLE] IN THE SYSTEM?

>> CORRECT SO THE DIVISION FOR, AND AGAIN, I'VE BEEN HERE 12 YEARS, WE'VE BEEN STRUGGLING WITH THIS TOPIC SPECIFICALLY, AND IT'S JUST A CONSTANT TRYING TO FIND WHERE THE LEAKS ARE AS THEY GO AND FIX IT, BOLT DOWN, WHATEVER THE SOLUTION IS THAT'S NEEDED, AND THEN JUST MORE WILL OCCUR. THAT'S JUST.

>> IS THAT ALSO IMPLIED IF WE HAVE LEAKS IN THE PIPE, THAT SEWAGE WATER IS GETTING INTO OUR GROUND?

>> WE'VE NEVER TRACKED OR EXPERIENCED THAT.

>> IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT IF STORMWATER CAN INFILTRATE A PIPE THAT SEWAGE WATER COULD NOT [OVERLAPPING].

>> YES, COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY, LET ME HELP.

[00:40:01]

WHAT WE DO WITH THESE BIG TRANSMISSION LINES, THE ONES THAT ARE IN THE RIO AND OTHER DRAINAGES, IS THEY HAVE MANHOLES THAT STICK UP.

THAT'S THE MOST SIGNIFICANT THAT WE'VE SEEN.

WE THINK IT ALSO IS OCCURRING AT THE JOINTS, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY DATA ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, BUT WE CAN ABSOLUTELY OBSERVE COMING INTO THE MANHOLES THAT ARE STICK UP IN THE RIO, IF YOU EVER GO DOWN, BUT FLIPS TRAIL OR ANYTHING, YOU'LL SEE THOSE.

>> CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT PART OF IT'S THE LOCATION OF THE PIPES TOO, BEING IN SOME OF THE MAJOR WASHES.

>> YES SO TYPICALLY, LIKE I'LL USE THE VALLEY AS AN EXAMPLE, IS THEY'LL PUT THE SEWERS UNDERNEATH THE STREETS, BUT FLAGSTAFF IS ELECTED OVER TIME.

THE BENEFIT TO PUTTING THEM IN THE WASHES, IS YOU DON'T HAVE LIFT STATIONS.

IF YOU PUT THEM IN THE STREETS SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO LIFT THE WASTE TO GET IT OVER TO YOUR TREATMENT PLAN.

YOU PUT IT IN THE WASHES, IT'S JUST NATURALLY GRAVITY FLOW.

THAT'S WHAT THIS COMMUNITY LACKS, SINCE THE FIFTIES, THEY HAVE MADE THAT DECISION TO PUT THEM IN THE WASHES.

JUST ONE OF THE RAMIFICATIONS FOR THAT IS THIS ISSUE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> COUNCILMAN [INAUDIBLE]?

>> MY QUESTION WAS ABOUT INDUSTRIAL PERMITS.

I'M JUST CURIOUS HOW MANY INDUSTRIAL PERMITS THERE ARE IN FLAGSTAFF, AND HOW THAT COMPARES TO OTHER COMPARABLE MUNICIPALITIES.

IF THAT'S ON THE RISE OR ARE GOING TO BE INCREASING IN THE FUTURE.

>> THAT IS AN EPE PROGRAM THAT THE UTILITY OPERATES, I BELIEVE THERE'S SEVEN THAT ARE REGULATED BY THE CITY.

SIGNIFICANT INDUSTRIAL PERMITS, AND SO IT'S NOT THAT MANY, RELATIVE TO BIGGER URBAN CITIES THAT HAVE A LOT MORE INDUSTRY.

>> ARE YOU ABLE TO NAME THEM?

>> I SHOULD NAME A FEW.

[OVERLAPPING] [INAUDIBLE] , PEPSI WHATEVER PEPSI'S CALLED NOW, IT'S CALLED SOME DIFFERENT.

THOSE TWO. MAYBE, JIM?

>> PURINA.

>> OH, YEAH, OF COURSE. PURINA. DOOR.

>> MISSION LINEN.

>> THANK YOU. MISSION LINEN.

>> I THINK THERE'S ONE MORE TO [OVERLAPPING].

>> THERE IS, THERE'S SEVEN OF THEM.

>> THAT'S FINE. YOU PASS. [LAUGHTER]

>> I WAS JUST CURIOUS, AND THEN DEFINITELY PAINTS A PICTURE.

>> WE DO ACTIVELY ENFORCE THE INDUSTRIAL PERMITS, BECAUSE THEY'RE REGULATED SPECIFICALLY BY EPA, OR WE ARE, TO MAINTAIN THAT PROGRAM.

>> BECAUSE OF THE FLOWS THAT COME INTO THE TREATMENT PLANT, THERE'S A REASON WE HAVE TO DO THAT.

>> YES.

>> WE'VE JUST RECENTLY TOURED THE [INAUDIBLE] FACILITY, AND THERE WERE SOME QUESTIONS BY THE OPERATORS ABOUT OUR INDUSTRIAL PERMITS, WHICH I WON'T GET INTO, BUT CONTEXTUALLY THAT'S WHERE MY QUESTION WAS COMING FROM, JUST WANTING TO KNOW MORE.

THANK YOU. [BACKGROUND]

>> THE REASON I'M UP HERE IS I CAN'T GET INTO THE DETAIL THE SAME LEVEL THEY CAN, SO I WON'T GO THERE JUST BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE IT, BUT I HAVE [LAUGHTER] TO DELIVER THE REAL INFORMATION.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS SLIDE?

>> I HAVE ONE, PLEASE.

LOOKING AT THE PERCENTAGES AND I THINK THEY OF COURSE TELL THE STORY, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE A BIT BEHIND THE CURVE AND IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S FOR GOOD REASON WITH OUR WATER CONSERVATION EFFORTS AND THE INCREASED SOLIDS GOING INTO THE SYSTEM, AS YOU NOTED.

THE QUESTION I HAVE IS, HOW DO WE STACK UP WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES LIKE US IN TERMS OF THESE PERCENTAGES? ARE WE TYPICALLY SEEING COMMUNITIES FOLLOWING THE RECOMMENDED PERCENTAGES THAT WE SEE ON THE RIGHT SIDE? WHERE ARE WE COMPARED TO OTHER COMMUNITIES?

>> I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD QUESTION FOR BRIAN, IF YOU WANT TO CHIME IN [LAUGHTER].

>> I'M BRIAN BERNARD WITH CAROLLO ENGINEERS.

TYPICALLY IN A LOT OF THE COMMUNITIES, WE WORK IN IN MARICOPA COUNTY, THEY'RE ACTUALLY A LITTLE MORE STRINGENT THAN THIS, BUT THEY ARE ACTUALLY IN THE ARIZONA REVISED STATUTES.

THEY'RE BOUND BY THEIR APP, THEIR AQUIFER PROTECTION PERMIT AT THE TREATMENT PLANTS AND BY STATUTE, AT A 70, 80, 90 TRIGGER POINTS, WHERE YOU'RE AT 75, 85, AND 95.

>> MAYBE IF CAN EXPAND, YOU MAY ASK THE QUESTION, WHY ARE WE HERE NOW? I'M KIND OF GETTING BACK TO BRIAN'S COMMENT.

WE IN THE UTILITY UNDERSTOOD THE SOLIDS ISSUE, AND WE PUT THE LAST WASTEWATER, STORMWATER RATE CASE WE DID BACK IN 2014.

IT WAS ADOPTED BY COUNCIL IN 2016.

IT WAS IMPLEMENTED IN 2016.

WE EMBEDDED A LOT OF FUNDING TO DEAL WITH THE SOLID SIDE, SO WE KNEW THAT, AND WE'RE JUST GOING THROUGH THAT PROCESS OUT THERE.

OH, I'M SORRY. [BACKGROUND] WE'RE JUST GOING THROUGH THAT PROCESS.

>> [OVERLAPPING] TAKE YOUR BREATH.

>> BUT THE LIQUID SIDE IS REALLY THE ONE I WANTED TO FOCUS.

WE UNDERSTOOD THE SOLIDS ISSUE AND THE FUNDING IS ON ITS WAY,

[00:45:04]

AND THOSE PROJECTS ARE ON THEIR WAY.

IT WAS A LIQUIDS ISSUE THAT WAS THE AHA MOMENT IN THAT BIOSOLIDS MASTER PLAN THAT BRIAN AND HIS TEAM DEVELOPED.

WE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAD AN ISSUE THERE, AND WHEN THEY DID THE MODELING AND THEY DID EVERYTHING WITH THE WASTEWATER THAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING, AS JOHN MENTIONED, WITH A CONSERVATION, THAT WAS LIKE, OH, MY GOSH.

NOW, WE NEED TO BRING IT FORWARD TO THE WATER COMMISSION.

WE BROUGHT IT FORWARD TO COUNCIL, A YEAR AND A HALF AGO.

IT WAS EMBEDDED IN HIS REPORT.

THAT WAS THE AHA PIECE AND THAT CAUGHT US BY SURPRISE, JUST TO BE HONEST, AS A DIRECTOR.

THEN WHEN I KNEW I WAS LEAVING, I CAME TO THE CITY MANAGER AT THE MANAGER'S OFFICE, SHANE, I SAID THIS IS THE BIGGEST TOPIC, BECAUSE I'M WALKING OUT THE DOOR, WE NEED TO SOLVE.

JUST WANTED TO HELP PUT THAT IN CONTEXT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE PERCENTS.

>>GOT IT.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> [INAUDIBLE] UNIQUE HERE. THE NORTHERN ARIZONA COMMUNITIES WE'RE WORKING WITH, WINSLOW, WILLIAMS, PRESCOTT, SEDONA, AND OTHERS, ARE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT.

AS BRAD SAID, WE KNEW THE WATER GENERATION WAS DROPPING, MAYBE NOT TO THE DEGREE FOR THE GPCD AS WHAT CAME OUT OF THE STUDY, BUT OF COURSE THEN THAT AFFECTS THE CONCENTRATION OF THE WASTEWATER.

ALTHOUGH THE CONSERVATION PROGRAM IS A WONDERFUL PROGRAM, IT HAS A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON YOUR WASTEWATER.

JUST TO ADD A LITTLE BIT TO WHAT COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY HAD ASKED, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PAULIE AND I, THERE'S A BIT OF AN IMPLICATION THAT IT'S A 50/50.

WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE INFILTRATION IN THROUGH THE PIPE JOINTS, IT'S A VERY, VERY MINOR AMOUNT TO BE [INAUDIBLE].

IT'S A TAIL AFTER A LONG STORM.

THE DIRECT INFLOW THAT FIRST COMPONENT OF A RAINFALL EVENT OR STORM THAT GETS INTO THE PIPE IS WHAT PUNISHES THE TREATMENT PLANT, AND IT IS A MUCH HIGHER PERCENTAGE. [OVERLAPPING]

>> THAT'S PROBABLY ARE GROWING IN MANHOLE COVERS?

>> THROUGH THE MANHOLE COVERS.

>> THAT DOESN'T CONCERN ME.

BUT IF WE HAVE PIPES THAT ARE LEAKING RAW SEWAGE INTO THE GROUND, THAT SOUNDS CONCERNING.

>> TYPICALLY, THE MAJORITY OF THAT WE WOULD TERM AS [INAUDIBLE] IS THAT DIRECT INFLUENCE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> [INAUDIBLE], WAS THE STRAIGHT MAN FOR THIS NEXT SLIDE BECAUSE HE'S BASICALLY SAYING, RELATED TO THE SOLIDS HANDLING, IT'S ROLLING.

IN TERMS OF THE PLANS AND FUNDING, THE DESIGNS ARE TYPICALLY DIGESTERS IS FUNDED THE FISCAL YEAR OF 2022, CONSTRUCTION IS PARTIALLY FUNDED IN THESE YEARS FOR THE TWO NEW DIGESTERS TO BE COMPLETED IN 2024, IS THAT IN THIS INITIAL SCHEDULE? BASICALLY THERE'S TWO THINGS GOING ON HERE WITH THE SOLID.

YOU'VE GOT THESE INITIAL SOLIDS TO WATERING AND HANDLING FOR THE DIGESTERS, WHICH IS FUNDED IN 23-25.

THAT'S LIKE ALL YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF WATER IN THERE, AND YOU GET MOST OF THE WATER OUT THIS FIRST.

THESE ARE THE BIOSOLIDS, THE SOLIDS REMAINING FOR MATURE NEW PROCESS.

BUT THEN YOU CAN GO EVEN FURTHER WITH SOLAR DRYING OR YOU'RE GETTING THE CLASS A BIOSOLIDS.

THAT REALLY OPENS UP MORE OPTIONS FOR WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH THOSE BIOSOLIDS.

THIS WOULD BE MORE LIKE THAT TYPE OF STUFF YOU MIGHT FIND IN A SOIL AMENDMENT BAG IN A HOME DEPOT OR SOMETHING WHERE IT'S FULLY SOLAR DRIED AND REALLY CLASS A BIOSOLIDS READY FOR AMENDMENT SOILS AND ALL SORTS OF OTHER APPLICATIONS.

THAT'S THE NEXT LEVEL OF PROCESSING.

THEN FINALLY, AFTER THESE TWO NEW DIGESTERS ARE CONSTRUCTED, YOU'RE GOING TO BE HAVING TO COME BACK AND REFER TO SOME OF THE TWO EXISTING DIGESTERS.

THEN OBVIOUSLY, YOU'VE GOT AN ONGOING ISSUE ABOUT BASICALLY KEEPING ALL OF THESE OPERATIONS REFURBISHED, UPGRADED, MAINTAINED, BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE.

SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT BRAD WAS REFERRING TO, THE BALL IS ROLLING ON THE SOLIDS HANDLE CAPACITY ISSUES.

NOW WE GET TO THIS LIQUID TREATMENT CAPACITY ISSUE.

WE'VE GOT TWO OPTIONS THAT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT.

THE FIRST OPTION IS A PHASED EXPANSION OF WILDCAT HILL, WHICH IS GENERALLY THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION AT THIS POINT.

BASICALLY FUNDING A NEW TREATMENT PLAN AT SIX GALLONS PER DAY, WHICH IS APPROXIMATELY 150 MILLION IN CAPITAL COSTS.

[00:50:01]

WE TALKED ABOUT THE DEGRADATION OF WILDCAT HILL, THE 4.8 MILLION GALLONS PER DAY BECAUSE OF THE SOLIDS CONCENTRATION, THE NEW PLANT WILL BE DESIGNED TO HANDLE THE CURRENT CHARACTERISTICS OF THE WASTEWATER AND MAYBE SOME FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS TO BE AT SIX MILLION GALLONS PER DAY BY ITS NEW CAPACITY FOR GROWTH AND INCORPORATES REDUNDANCY.

I'LL TALK ABOUT THIS REDUNDANCY IN A SECOND.

IT'S MORE OF AN ADOPTED ADVANTAGE APPROACH, BUT WITH CLIMATE CHANGE AND UNCERTAINTY IN THE FUTURE, CLEARLY, THIS PHASE EXPANSION IS A GOOD WAY TO GO.

THEN IT CREATES THE FOUNDATION FOR MORE STRINGENT TREATMENT.

IF YOU WANT TO GO TO SOME FORM OF INDIRECT POTABLE REUSE, THE DIRECT POTABLE REUSE ON YOUR RECLAIMED WATER, AND THEN ADDRESSING THE CONSTITUENTS OF EMERGING CONCERN.

I SAID I WAS GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE REDUNDANCY HERE IN A MOMENT.

THE KEY TO THIS OPTION IS CONTINUING TO OPERATE WILDCAT HILL, AND WE'RE SAYING SIX MILLION GALLONS PER DAY HERE, BUT WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT WHERE WE'RE CURRENTLY AT WITH THAT CAPACITY FOR ANOTHER 20 YEARS OR SO.

THIS IS REALLY MAXIMIZING THE VALUE THAT YOU'RE GETTING OUT OF THAT ASSET, IF YOU ALREADY HAVE AND YOU'RE REDUNDANT BECAUSE NOW YOU'VE GOT BOTH PLANTS OPERATE.

YOU CAN ACTUALLY COME IN AND DO MORE REPAIR AND REHABILITATION ON THE EXISTING WILDCAT HILL PLANT ONCE THE NEW PLANT IS OPERATIONAL.

THERE ARE SOME COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH KEEPING THAT PLANT GOING INTO 30 MILLION RANGE.

THE TOTAL COST OF THIS OPTION IS 180 MILLION IN TODAY'S COSTS.

AGAIN, THESE ARE TODAY'S COST APPROXIMATE.

THAT WILL BE PART OF THE FUTURE DIALOGUE IN TERMS OF UPDATING THE PEOPLE ON COST AND SO FORTH.

I THINK TO SEE THAT IN THE PROPER CONTEXT, WE LOOK AT OPTION 2, WHICH IS A SINGLE EXPANSION.[OVERLAPPING]

>> [INAUDIBLE], MICHAEL.

>> THANK YOU. REALLY QUICK QUESTION.

ARE WE THINKING THE EXPANSIONS CAN OCCUR ON-SITES OR AT THE SITES?

>> ON-SITE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THERE IS ROOM FOR EXPANSION [INAUDIBLE]

>> I THINK THAT'S TRUE, JIM, WITH BOTH OF THESE OPTIONS.

>> CORRECT.

>> THANK YOU, JIM.

>> MOVING TO OPTION 2.

IT'S A SINGLE EXPANSION AND IT'S BASICALLY FUNDING NEW TREATMENT PLANT AT 12 MILLION GALLONS PER DAY, APPROXIMATELY COST 300 MILLION.

IT DOES EVERYTHING THAT THE OLD THING DOES BECAUSE IT'S DOUBLE THE SIZE, STILL PROVIDES THE REDUNDANCY AND NETWORK EVERYTHING IN ONE FELL SWOOP.

BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS YOU'RE GOING TO RETIRE WILDCAT HILL EARLIER.

I THINK THIS CAME ABOUT WITH SERVICE QUESTIONING THE AGE OF WILDCAT HILL, IF YOU'RE GOING TO WANT TO PUSH THAT ASSET FURTHER.

BUT REPAIR AND REPLACING THAT WILL STILL BE IN THE RANGE OF 13 MILLION.

THE TOTAL COST IS 313 MILLION TODAY'S COSTS.

THOSE ARE THE TWO OPTIONS THAT I THINK YOU CAN SEE WHY STAFF'S CURRENT RECOMMENDATION IS OPTION 1.

BECAUSE YOU'RE GETTING SOME RETURN, YOU'RE GETTING THESE CAPITAL INVESTMENT COSTS, AND YOU'RE GETTING MORE OUT OF YOUR EXISTING ASSET, WHICH IS [INAUDIBLE] THANK YOU.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? MAYBE TWO OPTIONS.

>> OPTION 1 IS OPTION 2 WITH RESPECT TO THE WILDCAT HILL.

WE CHOOSE TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE WILDCAT HILL WITH REPAIR AND REPLACE, REPLACING THE SYSTEM PLANT OF 30 MILLION.

IF WE CHOOSE THAT ROUTE, WHAT WILL BE THE LIFE EXPECTANCY OF THE REPAIRED OR REPLACED WILDCAT HILL?

>> [INAUDIBLE] OPTION 1 TO GET [OVERLAPPING].

>> YEAH. I THINK WE ARE IN THIS RANGE FOR [OVERLAPPING].

>> NO, THAT'S WHAT I WAS JUST GOING TO REFER TO.

I THINK WE CAN RUN THAT PLAN OR JUMP AROUND THAT PLANT FOR ANOTHER 20 YEARS.

IT DOES REQUIRE AN INVESTMENT BECAUSE THERE'S PARTS THAT WEREN'T UPDATED BACK IN 2009.

>> THEN AFTER 20 YEARS, IT NEEDS TO RETIRE.

>> YOU BUILD THE SECOND PHASE OF THAT TREATMENT.

THEN YOU RETIRE IT.

>> WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT WAS THE ADAPTIVE MANAGEMENT.

AS WE NEED MORE CAPACITY AND THAT PLANT IS GOING TO BE CLOSER TO ITS AGE.

WE CAN BUILD ANOTHER THREE MILLION SECTION ONTO THAT PLAN AND DO IT SLOWLY OVER TIME IN ORDER TO BE ADAPTIVE TO WHATEVER'S HAPPENING IN THAT COMMUNITY.

IF COMMUNITY SLOWS DOWN, THEN YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO MAKE WILDCAT LASTS A LITTLE BIT LONGER.

IF IT GROWS A LITTLE BIT FASTER, WELL THEN YOU MIGHT HAVE TO BUILD THAT A LITTLE BIT SOON.

>> BUT I THINK THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT BECAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE IS JUST UNCERTAINTY.

THAT'S ALL IT BOILS DOWN TO,

[00:55:02]

AND WITH ECONOMIC UNCERTAINTY AND SO FORTH.

IT JUST BASICALLY SAYS THAT OPTION 1 IS SAYING, DON'T INVEST THE BIG DOLLARS UNTIL YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENING, AND SO FORTH.

I ALSO THINK, GENTLEMEN, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS, ONCE YOU HAVE THAT REDUNDANCY IN PLACE, AND AT LEAST 6 MILLION GALLONS PER DAY IN PLACE, YOUR ABILITY TO TUNE UP WILDCAT HILL AND REHABILITATE CERTAIN THINGS AND NOT HAVING TO REHABILITATE OTHER THINGS BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT THE REDUNDANCY.

ALL OF A SUDDEN WHEN YOU HAVE THAT NEW PLANT ALL OPTIONS CAN ARISE ON THE ABILITY TO MAKE THAT WILDCAT HILL, PERHAPS EVEN LAST A LITTLE LONGER OR, BE MORE EFFICIENT IN TERMS OF WHAT IT DOES.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YOU'D GET A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY IN THE OPERATION OF WILDCAT HILL.

>> IT HELPS WITH OUR CIP PLANNING SO THAT WE CAN STAGE IT TO BE APPROPRIATE FOR WHATEVER WE NEED TO BUILD BASED ON USING THIS OPTION.

>> SINCE 20 YEARS PLUS.

DEPENDING ON.

>> YEAH. BASICALLY, YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE CONCRETE AND THE PIECES THAT ARE INSIDE OF IT.

WE HAVE [INAUDIBLE] BASIN SO THE CONCRETE IS GOING TO BE GOOD FOR 50 YEARS.

YOU COULD HAVE ANOTHER 10 YEARS AS LONG AS WE CAN GO AND MAINTAIN THE EQUIPMENT THAT'S IN THERE, CURRENTLY BECAUSE WE ONLY HAVE ONE [INAUDIBLE], WE CAN'T MAINTAIN ANY OF THE EQUIPMENT BECAUSE YOU CAN NEVER BE SHUT DOWN. THAT'S ONE OF THE CHALLENGE.

>> IT ALLOWS YOU ALSO TO DO, A SLIGHT HISTORY IS LIKE A GOOD PORTION OF WILDCAT'S 50 YEARS OLDER AND A PORTION OF IT'S FOLDING.

SOME OF ITS [INAUDIBLE]. BY DOING THE FACED APPROACH, YOU GET TO MAXIMIZE THE BENEFIT OF THAT EXISTING ASSET.

>> INVESTING THAT ASSETS, SO YOU WANT TO MAXIMIZE THE BENEFIT OF THAT ASSET.

IF YOU CAN, IF THERE'S [INAUDIBLE] ISSUES.

>> COUNCIL MEMBER SHIMONI AND COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY.

>> THANK YOU. GOOD QUESTION.

I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S A NEED FOR GROWTH AND EXPANSION, BUT WHILE WE'RE DOING THAT, THERE IS THAT OTHER DIVERSION METHODS THAT WE CAN IMPLEMENT.

THINGS THAT OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE DOING TO DIVERGE SOLID WASTE.

I GUESS THE TOPIC THAT COMES TO MIND IS COMPOSING TOILETS.

HOW DO WE REDUCE THE FLOW TO US IN THE FIRST PLACE? I GUESS THIS IS MY QUESTION, WHILE WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT EXPANSION AND EMBRACING WHAT'S TO COME.

THIS ALSO MIGHT BE A CORE QUESTION [INAUDIBLE], BUT I'M CURIOUS WHAT YOU ALL THINK FOR SURE, AS THE EXPERTS?

>> FROM A PUBLIC HEALTH PERSPECTIVE, I THINK THE LAST COMPOSTING TOILET IN THIS COMMUNITY WAS IN THE 30S.

[NOISE] THEN THEY WERE RE-ACQUIRED BY THE STATE IN 1950, I'M GIVING YOU ROUGH DATES, TO BUILD A WATER RECLAMATION WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT.

FROM A PUBLIC HEALTH SCALE OF THE SIZE OF THIS CITY, YEAH, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT YOU BRING IT ALL TOGETHER AND TREAT IT ALL AT ONE PLACE.

YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH THOSE AT SMALLER, BUT WHEN YOUR SCALE OF THIS SIZE, BECAUSE THEN YOU NEED TO WORRY ABOUT IF THEY'RE COMPOSTING, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT WHEN THIS QUESTION CAME UP IS; WELL, HOW DO YOU REGULATE THAT INSIDE THE PERSON'S HOME IN A TOWN THIS SIZE? WE LOOK AT IT DIFFERENTLY, WE BRING IT ALL, CENTRALIZE IT, THEN WE DECIDE WHAT HAVE WE GOT TO DO WITH IT AT THE END, AND SOME OF THOSE OPTIONS WERE; DO WE CONTINUE TO DO WHAT WE'RE DOING BY PUTTING IT IN THE, NOT TO GET TOO TECHNICAL, BUT LANDFILL, IF YOU WILL ON-SITE, LAND APPLYING IT, IS A BETTER WAY TO SAY IT OR DO WE DO SOMETHING BETTER WITH IT? SOME OF THOSE CAPITAL DOLLARS WERE TO TRY AND INCREASE ITS QUALITY AND THEN DO COMPOSTING, OFFERING IT AS A COMPOST OPPORTUNITY OR LANDFILL PRODUCT RECOVER, THOSE WERE SOME OF THE OTHER OPTIONS.

>> YEAH, I'VE WORKED [INAUDIBLE] IN THIS AREA RELATED TO MARKETING OF SOIL ELEMENT PRODUCTS, AND BIOSOLIDS.

IT'S A PRETTY ROBUST STUFF GOING ON.

MY PERSONAL OPINION IS SANITATION AGENCIES COULD DO BETTER IN TERMS OF [NOISE] THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF MARKETING, THERE IS DEMAND FOR THIS PRODUCTS MORE ORGANIZED, IT'S BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS.

THE SECOND PHASE OF THE SOLAR DRYING AND CLASSIC [INAUDIBLE].

YOU CAN DO A LOT OF THINGS WITH THAT SOIL AMENDMENTS, AND SOIL AMENDMENTS CAN ALSO SAVE WATER LANDSCAPES.

THERE'S A LOT OF INTEGRATED STUFF WE CAN DO ONCE YOU'VE [NOISE] GOT THOSE ORGANIC MATERIALS.

THAT MAKES SENSE? [OVERLAPPING]

>> [INAUDIBLE] SAYS THERE IS A SLIDE COMING UP, IT'S GOING TO TALK ABOUT, SINCE YOU'VE GOT [INAUDIBLE] WITH THE BIOSOLIDS. GREG.

>> TO SOME DEGREE, WE'RE DOING THAT AT WILDCAT ALREADY, WE HAVE A SEPTATE RECEIVING STATION AND [INAUDIBLE] RECEIVING STATION THAT'S ALL [INAUDIBLE] TO BYPASS THE HEAD OF THE PLANT AND GET THAT INTO THE DIGESTERS.

YOU DO HAVE SOME OF THAT GOING ON RIGHT NOW AT THE CURRENT PLANT.

[01:00:06]

THAT'S THE END OF THE LINE FOR PLANT AND [INAUDIBLE] WE HAVE TO TREAT.

THE OPTION ARE THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET

>> BECAUSE THEY'RE SAYING YOU'RE SAYING ONE OF THE EPIC BIOSIDER.

>> I THINK WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IT [OVERLAPPING].

>> THAT'S GOOD [OVERLAPPING]. THANK YOU.

>> I THINK WE HAD ANOTHER QUESTION. RIGHT?

>> COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY. ANDY, DID YOU [INAUDIBLE]. [OVERLAPPING]

>> NO, JUST REAL QUICK. SORRY TO INTERRUPT.

COUNCIL MEMBER SHIMONI, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS AS I'VE GOTTEN TO KNOW THE SUBJECT, OUR WATER CONSERVATION EFFORTS, HAVE BEEN GREAT AND ERIN YOUNG AND HER TEAM HAVE DONE A REALLY GREAT JOB.

IN DOING SO, IT HAS BEGUN TO CREATE SOME ISSUES WITH OUR WILDCAT TREATMENT PLANT SO THE QUESTION IS, HOW CAN WE BETTER COMPOSITE OR UTILIZE THOSE SOLIDS FOR OTHER USES? I THINK THIS TEAM IS DOING A REALLY GOOD JOB OF EVALUATING ALL THE OPTIONS.

BUT JUST ANOTHER CONSERVATION EFFORTS HAVE BEEN SO GOOD THAT IT STARTED TO CREATE SOME ISSUES WITH OUR WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT.

>> JUST TO CLARIFY, MY THOUGHT WAS HOW DO WE DIVERGE SOLIDS FROM THE WHOLE PIPELINE IN THE FIRST PLACE, BUT THAT HELPS. THANK YOU.

>> LET'S BUY [INAUDIBLE] . [LAUGHTER].

>> IT SOUNDS LIKE IT DID TURN TO A JOKE, BUT I'LL SKIP THAT.

IN ALL SERIOUSNESS AND THIS MAY NOT BE THE BEST TIME TO TALK ABOUT IT, IF IT ISN'T TELL ME, BUT I THINK ALL THESE TREATMENT IS BASED ON THE PROMISE THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A PLUS WATER COMING OUT OF THE PLANT, WHICH IS FINE FOR FLUSHING TOILETS AND EVERYTHING.

BUT I DO HAVE CONCERNS CONTAMINATES OF CONCERN THAT ARE STILL IN THE WATER AND WE'RE PUTTING THAT INTO OUR AQUIFER.

AT SOME POINT, I THINK WE WILL PROBABLY WANT TO UPGRADE THE QUALITY OF WATER THAT WE PUT INTO OUR AQUIFER BECAUSE THAT IS THE WATER WE END UP DRINKING.

WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IT IN 10 MINUTES OR IN 10 YEARS?

>> LET ME JUST MAKE ONE QUICK [OVERLAPPING] ON THAT BECAUSE IT'S ABSOLUTELY A GREAT QUESTION BECAUSE IT DEALS WITH NOT ONLY THE CURRENT RECLAIMED WATER ISSUES, WHICH IS JUST WHAT YOU'RE JUST CHARGING, THE A PLUS.

I'VE DONE WORK ON POTABLE RE-USE AND SO OF COURSE, SO THE CITIES COME UP.

BUT WHAT THESE OPTIONS DO, THEY'RE BASICALLY ADDRESSING AND I THINK BRAD WOULD REITERATE THIS.

THEY'RE ADDRESSING YOUR FUNDAMENTAL CAPACITY ON YOUR ABILITY TO CONTINUE TO PRODUCE WHAT YOU'RE PRODUCING TODAY.

THE ISSUE OF THE CEC'S AND FURTHER USE OF RECLAIMED WATER, THAT IS ANOTHER DISCUSSION WE'RE GOING TO MENTION IT HERE TODAY.

WHAT WE WERE FOCUSING ON, THE BASIC CAPACITY ISSUES OF THE CURRENT PLAN.

>> ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE.

PLUS THE OPTIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO A UTILITY TODAY, THE ENGINEERING IS THE NICE PRECURSOR TO WHERE YOU WANT TO GO.

BY IMPLEMENTING SOMETHING [OVERLAPPING]

>> LOOK BACK ON THE OTHER SLIDE.

>> BY IMPLEMENTING SOME OF THESE TECHNOLOGIES WILL GET THE CITY TO A BASELINE THAT YOU CAN THEN DO WHAT WE IN THE INDUSTRY CALL ADVANCE TREATMENT.

THIS IS BEFORE THAT, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE A GREAT SETUP TOO. THANK YOU, JOHN.

>> BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT ADVANCE TREATMENT. WE HAVE TO DO THIS.

>> WE HAVE TO DO THIS FOR REGULATORY, FOR PUBLIC HEALTH, FOR ALL THOSE OTHER REASONS.

BUT IT'S GOT TO SET YOU UP TO DO THAT. ABSOLUTELY.

>> ARE WE GOING TO TALK ABOUT ADVANCED TREATMENT TODAY?

>> NO.

>> IF I MAY, IT'S NOT A TOPIC WE'LL GET INTO IN DEPTH TODAY, BUT WE KNOW THERE ARE INTERESTS BOTH WITHIN THIS ROOM AND WITHIN THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE WHO WANT TO ADDRESS THIS.

WE'VE MET WITH MEMBERS OF THE WATER GROUP ON THIS ISSUE A COUPLE OF TIMES.

WE WILL BE ADVANCING THAT DISCUSSION TO COUNSEL [INAUDIBLE] IN THE FUTURE.

BUT I COULDN'T AGREE MORE WITH THE COMMENTS JUST MADE.

THIS IS WHERE THE CONVERSATION NEEDS TO START, WHERE AT CAPACITY ISSUES RIGHT NOW.

THERE ARE SOME THINGS WE CAN DO WITH OUR UTILITY THAT WILL GREATLY ENHANCE NOT JUST CAPACITY, BUT AS WE TALK ABOUT THE BIOSOLIDS AND THE QUALITY OF THE BIOSOLIDS TO A CLASS A.

THAT'S WHERE IT ALL STARTS AND UPPING OUR TREATMENT OF RECLAIMED WATER IS INDEED A TOPIC THAT NEEDS TO GET IN FRONT OF THIS COUNSEL.

THAT WILL BE A CONTINUATION OF THE DISCUSSION.

>> I'M TOTALLY SUPPORTIVE OF WHAT I'VE SEEN ON THE SCREEN TODAY, BUT WE CAN'T FORGET ABOUT THIS ANSWER EITHER.

>> JUST, FOR YOUR, WE'RE LOOKING TOWARDS THE FUTURE.

THE FACILITIES THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT ARE AIMED AT ONLY TO THE IPO.

>> I'M KEEPING THAT IN MIND AS YOU WERE SAYING THAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> WHENEVER WE GO INTO DESIGN, THAT WILL BE THE ONE OF THE HIGHER [OVERLAPPING].

[01:05:01]

>> WE CAN IMPLEMENT YOU'RE MAKING PROVISIONS SO THAT WHEN WE DO IMPLEMENT IT ISN'T LIKE WE HAVE TO REDO IT THE WHOLE [OVERLAPPING]

>> CORRECT.

>> ABSOLUTELY. WE ARE GOOD. GO AHEAD.

>> THESE TECHNOLOGIES WOULD ALIGN WITH THE ADVANCED LAUNCH.

>> ALL RIGHT THEN. THANK YOU.

>> THAT WAS REALLY STRANGE SOURCE FROM THE STRATEGIC AND WITH THE FUTURE DISCUSSIONS.

I WOULD VENTURE TO SAY THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT HAPPENING IN NEXT YEAR ABOUT UPDATES ON THE TWO OPTIONS.

WHETHER IT BE REFINED CAPITAL FOR US TIMEFRAMES AND THE ISSUES THAT WE RUN INTO WITH EXTENDING THE LIFE OF THE CURRENT PLANT COULD COME UP.

OBVIOUSLY, SUSTAINABILITY ISSUES, THE CLIMATE CHANGE IN TAX, CARBON NEUTRALITY ISSUES, WE'LL HAVE FUTURE DISCUSSIONS ON.

NICOLE'S GOING TO HAVE A SLIDE ON THAT IN A MINUTE.

THEN FINALLY, EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RECLAIMED WATER CONSIDERATIONS, URGENCY AND TIMEFRAMES FOR DEVELOPING AN UNUSED RECLAIMED WATER, WHICH WE ARE MAXED OUT IN THE SUMMER ON THE PURPLE PIPE.

BUT THERE'S A LOT OF SEASONAL WATER THAT COULD BE USED FOR OTHER APPLICATIONS.

THAT'S GOING TO HAVE A BIG IMPACT ON WHAT LEVEL OF TREATMENT YOU WANT TO SERVE A BOARD ON TO THE PLANS AND THEN AN ADDRESS THEM TO SEE CITIES.

WATER SERVICES IS FULLY EXPECTING A ROBUST DIALOGUE ABOUT THAT TOPIC?

>> THAT BASICALLY CLARIFY THAT.

I JUST WANTED TO PIGGYBACK WHEN YOU'RE SAYING THAT WE WEREN'T GOING TO HAVE TO BE REPLACING ANY SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF THIS PART OF INVESTMENT [INAUDIBLE]

>> I'M NOT REALLY GOING TO HAND IT TO CONVENTIONAL OVER TO NICOLE FOR A SLIDE SHE'S GOING TO PRESENT, SO WE'RE GOOD WITH THAT.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR ALLOWING ME TO PRESENT.

THE INFORMATION [INAUDIBLE]

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> YOU'RE WELCOME [BACKGROUND]

>> IT IS FREE. I'M GOING TO FLIP IT HERE SO I CAN PROJECT HOPEFULLY WELL ENOUGH FOR THOSE LISTENING VIRTUALLY.

FIRST OF ALL, NICOLE I LOVE YOUR SHOES.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THEY'RE VERY FANTASTIC FACILITATING SHOES.

MAYOR, AND COUNCIL, AND, [INAUDIBLE] SUSTAINABILITY DIRECTOR.

I WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO DISCUSS OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT AND THE CARBON NEUTRALITY PLAN.

BEFORE I HIGHLIGHT POSSIBLE BIOSOLID MANAGEMENT PROCESSES, I WOULD LIKE TO STRESS THAT WE CAN AND SHOULD BE BETTER STEWARDS OF OUR BIOSOLID MANAGEMENT PROCESSES.

OUR CURRENT BIOSOLIDS TREATMENT PRACTICES ARE ANTIQUATED.

NOT ONLY WE BEING POOR STEWARDS OF THE ENVIRONMENT, WE'RE MISSING OPPORTUNITIES TO CREATE ENERGY, TO SAVE MONEY, AND TO BE A LEADER.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WE ARE THE ONLY AGENCY LEFT IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA THAT CONTINUES TO LAND INJECT BIOSOLIDS FOR DRYING.

WE HAVE AN INCREDIBLE OPPORTUNITY, COUNCIL, TO GO BEYOND REGULATORY COMPLIANCE AND MANAGING OUR BIOSOLIDS AND UTILIZE THEM TO ADVANCE THE CITIES CARBON NEUTRALITY GOALS.

LISTED ON THE SLIDE ARE EXAMPLES OF EXISTING MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES AND SOME NEWER TECHNOLOGIES.

THE FIRST AND SECOND BULLETS FOCUS ON THE USE OF BIOSOLIDS AND ORGANIC WASTE TO CREATE BIOCHAR.

YOU MAY RECALL THIS TERM FROM A CONVERSATION THAT WE HAD WITH YOU ABOUT CARBON DIOXIDE REMOVAL A FEW MONTHS AGO.

BIOCHAR IS A GRANULAR CARBONS SUBSTANCE PRODUCED BY THERMAL DECOMPOSITION OF ORGANIC MATTER IN AN OXYGEN STARVED CHAMBER.

THE CHARCOAL LIKE BYPRODUCT IS BIOCHAR.

IT'S HIGHLY POROUS AND IT IS SAFE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT BECAUSE IT'S BEEN ESSENTIALLY COOKED AT SUCH A HIGH TEMPERATURE.

IN ADDITION TO REDUCING SOIL EMISSIONS OF GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS, BIOCHAR CAN SERVE MANY PURPOSES IN A REGENERATIVE CAPACITY.

IT CAN IMPROVE SOIL QUALITY AS AN AMENDMENT.

IT CAN BE USED IN STORMWATER PROJECTS.

IT CAN BE USED IN LIVESTOCK FEED PRODUCTIVITY, AS WELL AS WATER FILTRATION TREATMENT.

THERE'S LOTS OF END USES FOR BIOCHAR.

IT DOES OFFER LONG-TERM AMENDMENTS THAT INCLUDE RESISTANCE TO DECOMPOSITION.

BENEFITS INCLUDE NUTRIENTS AND BIO-AVAILABILITY AND SOIL AND SO FORTH.

THE TECHNOLOGY OFFERS A PROMISING SOLUTION TO MITIGATING CLIMATE CHANGE BY REDUCING CONTAMINATION AND SECURELY STORING CARBON IN A CLEANER AND MORE EFFICIENT FORM THAN TRADITIONAL FORMS OF COAL.

JUST AS A POINT OF REFERENCE.

ONE TON OF BIOCHAR THAT'S PRODUCED IS EQUIVALENT TO THREE TONS OF CARBON DIOXIDE EQUIVALENT BEING SEQUESTERED.

IT CAN BE A VERY IMPORTANT TOOL AS WE TALK ABOUT CARBON NEUTRALITY.

>> CAN YOU REPEAT THAT.

>> SURE. ONE TON OF BIOCHAR THAT'S GENERATED OR PRODUCED

[01:10:05]

IS EQUIVALENT TO THREE TONS OF CARBON EMISSIONS BEING SEQUESTERED.

THERE'S THREE TONS OF C_O2 SEQUESTERED IN ONE TON OF BIOCHAR ON AVERAGE.

IT DOES PROVIDE VERY PROMISING AVENUE IN TERMS OF SUPPORTING OUR CARBON NEUTRALITY GOALS.

BIOSOLIDS ARE ALSO USED TO GENERATE ENERGY.

DRIED BIOSOLIDS HAVE ABOUT AS MUCH ENERGY AS LOW GRADE COAL.

PUTTING THAT INTO CONTEXT OF WHERE IT'S GOING TO CREATE ENERGY AND IT IS COMMONLY HARVESTED THROUGH THE THREE TYPES OF PROCESSES, ANAEROBIC DIGESTION AND I CAN PROVIDE MY NOTES AS WELL BECAUSE I KNOW I'M THROWING A LOT AT YOU AT THE MOMENT IN ADDITION TO ALL THE INFORMATION YOU'VE ALREADY RECEIVED.

BUT ANAEROBIC DIGESTION PRODUCES BIO-GAS AND RENEWABLE METHANE RICH FUEL THAT IS USED IN COMBINED HEAT AND POWER SYSTEMS. THERE'S ALSO A PROCESS CALLED THERMAL CONVERSION, WHICH IS AN ENERGY RECOVERY.

TALKED ABOUT THAT WITH BIOCHAR.

THEN COMPOSTING BIOLOGICAL ACTIVITIES RELEASE ENERGY DURING THE COMPOSTING PROCESS.

THEN AN EXAMPLE OF A VERY NEW AND EMERGING TECHNOLOGY IS ONE THAT USES BIOSOLIDS TO GENERATE HYDROGEN.

THE TECHNOLOGY USES A SPECIFIC MATERIAL THAT IS DERIVED FROM BIOSOLIDS TO SPARK CHEMICAL REACTIONS TO PRODUCE HYDROGEN FROM BIOGAS.

WELL, THIS APPROACH IS NEW, IT'S SIMPLY AN OFFERING OF POSSIBILITY.

THIS MIGHT NOT BE THE DIRECTION THAT THE CITY IS INTERESTED IN MOVING, BUT IT'S JUST TO SHOW THERE ARE LOTS OF OPPORTUNITIES AND HOW WE USE BIOSOLIDS.

I REALLY WOULD LIKE US TO CHALLENGE US TO THINK BEYOND OUR OWN OPERATIONS AND NOT ISOLATING THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITY IN TERMS OF WHAT OUR POTENTIAL AND OUR POSSIBILITIES ARE AND HOW WE CAN TRANSITION BIOSOLIDS MANAGEMENT TO HELP DELIVER NEW INDUSTRIES AND COLLABORATIONS THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY AND THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

WITH THAT IN MIND, THERE IS A PENDING COMPOSTING BUSINESS, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT IS CURRENTLY SLATED FOR AN ARIZONA STATE LAND PARCEL DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM WILDCAT FACILITY.

ENVISION AS INDUSTRIAL CARBON DIOXIDE REMOVAL PARK, IF YOU WILL, THAT CAN TAKE BIOSOLIDS FROM WILDCAT INCORPORATED INTO COMPOSTING AND SMALL BIOMASS, AND TURNING AROUND AND HAVING ENERGY GENERATION AT THIS PARK THAT IS THEN RETURNED TO WILDCAT FOR PROCESSING.

COUNCIL, THIS IS SIMPLY AN INVITATION TO THINK ABOUT WHAT'S POSSIBLE AND TO THINK INNOVATIVELY AND CREATIVELY.

WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE ENERGY, TO BE BETTER STEWARDS, TO CREATE JOBS, AND TO COLLABORATE LOCALLY WITH BUSINESSES.

>> DO THE OPTIONS THAT WE ARE CONSIDERING HERE TODAY SET US UP FOR THAT?

>> I BELIEVE SO, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO DEFER TO THE EXPERTS IN THE ROOM THAT WE HAVE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> I'M HAPPY TO AGAIN PROVIDE THE NOTES ON THIS BECAUSE I HAVE OFFERED A LOT OF INFORMATION ON THE WHAT'S POSSIBLE AND I KNOW THAT WE WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DIVE DEEPER INTO THESE DISCUSSIONS, BUT REALLY THIS IS TO PAINT THAT BIGGER PICTURE.

>> COUNCIL MEMBER [INAUDIBLE]

>> FIRST OF ALL, NICOLE, I LIKE YOUR SHOES.

>> THANK YOU. [LAUGHTER] [OVERLAPPING]

>> ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE BIOSOLIDS NOW THE WAY THAT WE HANDLE THEM ARE TURNING INTO CARBON DIOXIDE, WHICH GOES INTO THE ATMOSPHERE? BECAUSE IF THEY'RE NOT, THEN [INAUDIBLE] BIOCHAR WOULD IMPROVE ANYTHING.

BUT IF THEY ARE SOMEHOW DEGRADING AND TURNING INTO CARBON DIOXIDE AND GOING INTO THE ATMOSPHERE THEN THAT WOULD BE SIGNIFICANT.

>> ABSOLUTELY, AND WHILE WE HAVEN'T DONE ANY REAL-TIME CALCULATIONS ON THE ATMOSPHERIC MONITORING AT THE FACILITY, WE DO KNOW THAT WE'RE LOSING OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE ENERGY, BUT I'LL LET YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT THE BIOCHAR.

>> MY CORE QUESTION IS, DOES OUR BIOSOLIDS END UP IN THE ATMOSPHERE?

>> YES.

>> NO.

>> NO?

>> NO. [OVERLAPPING] WE PRODUCE METHANE GAS AND 65 PERCENT METHANE,

[01:15:04]

ABOUT 35 PERCENT CARBON DIOXIDE.

WE RUN THAT THROUGH THE FLARE BECAUSE METHANE IS A FAR WORSE GREENHOUSE GAS THAN CARBON DIOXIDE, SO THAT'S WHY WE FLARE IT UP.

BUT THE PROJECT THAT SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT WHERE WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THAT METHANE AND USE IT FOR COGEN PROJECT.

SO WE'RE GOING TO USE IT FOR COMBINED HEAT AND POWER.

WE'RE WORKING ON THAT PROJECT AS PART OF SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU SEE UP THERE ON [INAUDIBLE].

>> [INAUDIBLE] USED TO DO BUT IT WASN'T AS MUCH.

>> YES.

>> YOU'RE SAYING, REAL-TIME ARE THOSE BIOSOLIDS IN THE LAND INJECTION.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> [INAUDIBLE] METHANE PRODUCTION AND USE THAT ENERGY, WHICH IS GREAT.

BUT YOU'LL STILL END UP WITH SOLIDS.

I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, NICOLE IS, TURN THOSE SOLIDS INTO BIOCHAR.

>> CORRECT.

>> TURN THEM INTO ENERGY.

>> MY POINT IS, IF THEY'RE NOT GOING TO END UP IN THE ATMOSPHERE, THEN THERE'S NO NET GAIN.

>> BUT I THINK WE ALSO NEED TO TALK ABOUT THAT ANTIQUATED PROCESS OF THE LAND INJECTION AS WELL.

>> I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT IT IN ONE OF THE OTHER SLIDES.

WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT WE'LL USE TO TOP COVER THE LANDFILL, SO THAT WAY IT BECOMES A BENEFICIAL USE THERE, USING SOME OF IT THERE, MAY BE TOPPING SOME OF THE GOLF COURSES ONCE YOU GET IT OUT THE A PLUS, WHERE THEY CAN USE IT AS FERTILIZER ON THE GOLF COURSES, AS A FREE FERTILIZER BECAUSE IT'S HIGH END PHOSPHORUS AND NITROGEN.

WE'VE DONE THAT IN OTHER PLACES THAT I'VE WORKED ON.

>> [INAUDIBLE], DO YOU WANT TO?

>> YEAH. JUST TO ADD TO THIS, NICOLE STARTED HER DISCUSSION BY TALKING ABOUT RESPONSIBLE ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP AND I THINK THERE'S TWO ASPECTS WE CAN CONSIDER HERE.

ONE IS THAT OF STEWARDSHIP, THEN THE OTHER IS THE ENERGY PRODUCTION, WHICH IS WHERE SHE ENDED UP.

I THINK BOTH ARE CRITICALLY IMPORTANT FROM A SUSTAINABILITY STANDPOINT.

WE DO NEED TO UP OUR GAME ON BIOSOLIDS.

THERE'S NO QUESTION.

WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW IS A LITTLE BIT ANTIQUATED IN TERMS OF BEST PRACTICES.

I WORKED WITHIN A COMMUNITY, THIS WAS NOT A MUNICIPALLY OWNED SYSTEM, IT WAS A DISTRICT OWNED SYSTEM.

THEY PRODUCED CLASS A BIOSOLIDS.

THERE WERE NO ODORS, NOTHING NOXIOUS AND THE RESULTING PRODUCT WAS USED THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY FOR FERTILIZER ON GARDENS, GOLF COURSES, YOU NAME IT.

IT WAS A WONDERFULLY SUSTAINABLE SYSTEM THAT REPRESENTED, I THINK, GOOD STEWARDSHIP.

THEY DID NOT USE IT FOR ENERGY PRODUCTION, BUT I THINK THAT'S THE NEXT LEVEL AND THERE ARE SOME OPPORTUNITIES HERE.

THIS IS PART OF THE BIG PICTURE, THINKING OF THE RETREAT TODAY IS, WHAT OPPORTUNITIES AVAIL THEMSELVES AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THESE IMPROVEMENTS? COULD WE BE PRODUCING ENERGY WHILE AT THE SAME TIME BEING VERY GOOD STEWARDS OF THE RESOURCE AND I THINK THE ANSWER IS, YES AND YES.

IT'S A VERY GOOD DISCUSSION AND NICOLE THANK YOU FOR LEADING US THROUGH THAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> ANYWAY, I AGREE WITH ALL OF THAT.

I MEAN, I REMEMBER AN [INAUDIBLE] FROM 1950S.

BUT MY ONLY POINT IS BEFORE WE'RE GOING TO CLAIM THAT WE'RE TAKING CARBON DIOXIDE AND SEQUESTERING IT OUT IN THE AIR, WE NEED TO THINK OF THE WHOLE PROCESS, AS IS IT REALLY A NET GAIN OR NOT? WE DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER THAT NOW, BUT MY POINT IS, YOU'VE GOT TO THINK IT THROUGH THE WHOLE THING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT MAKING CLAIMS THAT AREN'T REALLY COMPLETELY TRUE.

[OVERLAPPING] [INAUDIBLE] NOT BUT WE HAVE TO STUDY THAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY. WE HAVE TO LOOK INTO WHERE THE BEST AND WE HAVE TO HAVE A ENVIRONMENTALLY SOUND APPROACH, WE HAVE TO HAVE A FISCALLY SOUND APPROACH.

BUT THE CHALLENGE IS TO ENVISION SOMETHING THAT IS VERY COMPREHENSIVE AND HOLISTIC THAT CAN HELP ADVANCE OUR GOALS, PROCESSES.

>> I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THAT.

>> JOB CREATION AND SO FORTH.

ABSOLUTELY. YOU ARE THE EXPERT BY ALL MEANS BUT WE HAVE MENTIONED RECENTLY THAT THE COMBINED HEAT POWER PROJECT THAT'S ALSO UNDERWAY AT WILDCAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE HAS TO JUST BE ONE ANSWER FOR THE BIOSOLIDS, BUT WE HAVE OPPORTUNITIES WITH THEM.

>> COUNCIL MEMBER SHIMONI AND THEN COUNCIL MEMBER [INAUDIBLE]. COUNCIL MEMBER SHIMONI.

>> THANK YOU. NICOLE, THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION.

PLEASE SEND THOSE SLIDES AND THOSE NOTES TO US.

THAT WAS A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION. QUICK QUESTION.

YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT US BEING, WE'RE THE ONLY COMMUNITIES IN THE STATE TO DO SOMETHING. CAN YOU REPEAT THAT?

>> WE HAVE THE DEDICATED LAND DISPOSAL, DLD, AND CURRENTLY, AS FAR AS I KNOW, WE'RE THE ONLY ONES STILL IN THE STATE THAT STILL DO THAT.

>> WHAT IS THAT?

>> IT'S WHERE WE INJECT THE BIOSOLIDS INTO THE LAND DISPOSAL.

>> CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, JIM, BUT WHEN YOU MOVE TO THE CLASS A PLUS, YOU CAN BEGAN MOVING AWAY FROM THAT? ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING [INAUDIBLE] SOLID DRYING AND GET INTO CLASS A PLUS,

[01:20:02]

SUDDENLY YOU'RE IN BUSINESS FOR USING THAT STUFF FOR A LOT MORE OPPORTUNITY.

>> BECAUSE IT'S A CLASS B BIOSOLIDS, YOUR ONLY OTHER OPTION WOULD BE TO TAKE INTO THE LANDFILL, WHICH WILL BE EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE BECAUSE THERE'S A HIGH TIPPING FEE AND YOU [INAUDIBLE].

>> THE CURRENT PLANS ALREADY INCLUDE THAT ADDITIONAL DRYING TO GET TO CLASS A PLUS.

[INAUDIBLE].

>> I'M SURE WE'LL DIVE INTO THIS TOPIC A LOT MORE IN THE FUTURE.

BUT JIM, I WAS CURIOUS OF YOUR INITIAL RESPONSE TO SOME OF THE THINGS NICOLE SAID ABOUT ABOUT THE POTENTIAL.

>> YEAH.

>> IT'S TREMENDOUS.

>> I WORK WITH NICOLE ALL THE TIME PLUS I AM BIG INTO ENERGY AND SAVINGS AND WHATEVER WE CAN DO TO MAKE THINGS BETTER.

>> THAT'S GREAT. AWESOME. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT.

>> NEXT.

>> THE PROCESS FOR TAKING THE BIOCHAR AND TURNING IT INTO ENERGY, THAT WOULD ALSO BE AT SAME FACILITY THAT WE COULD USE FOR [INAUDIBLE] FOREST THINNING, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> BIOMASS.

>> YES. SO THIS TYPE OF PLANT AND USE OF ENERGY COULD ALSO HELP WITH THE CARBON THAT WE'RE JUST LIGHTING ON FIRE.

>> IN THEORY, YES.

>> I JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT, SO THERE'S SOME INDIRECT EFFECTS ON THE CARBON THAT WE CAN PREVENT RELEASING INTO THE ATMOSPHERE USING THE SAME TYPE OF FACILITY AS BIOCHAR THAT WOULD PROVIDE A BASELINE AND WE HAVE THE QUANTITY NEEDED TO HAVE A BASELINE WORTH OF ENERGY WHILE WE TRANSFER [INAUDIBLE].

>> REITERATING, THE EMISSIONS THAT ARE GENERATED CURRENTLY ARE CAPTURED AND MANAGED DUE TO REGULATORY COMPLIANCE AND SO FORTH, BUT WE'RE MISSING OPPORTUNITIES IN THAT SPACE.

>> I'M ALL WITH YOU.

I GUESS I'M JUST SAYING THAT WE NEED TO THINK OF THE WHOLE PICTURE, WHAT'S YOUR GAIN AND WHAT YOU LOSE AND THERE'S A LITTLE OF EACH [INAUDIBLE].

OKAY, AND THAT'S IT FOR TODAY.

>> [LAUGHTER] THANK YOU.

>> I DON'T WANT TO GET SLAPPED ON THE WRIST.

[LAUGHTER]

>> [INAUDIBLE] GETTING ITCHY.

>> CAN I DO A CHECK IN? HOW IS THE AUDIO IN THE BACK? CAN YOU GUYS HEAR THE CONVERSATIONS? OKAY. AND THEN IS CJ WRONG? ARE WE COMING ACROSS OKAY ON THE LIVE STREAM?

>> [BACKGROUND] MONITORING I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING OF ANY CONCERN.

>> SO FAR, SO GOOD.

>> SO FAR, SO GOOD.

>> GREAT. AND THEN NICOLE, HOW ARE WE DOING TIME-WISE?

>> WE ARE 35 MINUTES AHEAD OF SCHEDULE.

>> GREAT. [LAUGHTER] I WOULD INVITE MORE DIALOGUE ON THE TOPIC WE JUST HAD AND THEN AT THE END OF THIS DISCUSSION, I THINK WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE MANY SPEAKERS AND GUESTS WE'VE HAD ON THIS TOPIC.

A LOT OF GREAT INFORMATION COMING TO THE TABLE HERE. THIS IS HUGE.

THE NUMBERS ARE HUGE BUT I THINK EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE OVERALL DISCUSSION IS RATHER MONUMENTAL WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE CORE SERVICES THAT THIS COMMUNITY PROVIDES.

IT'S BEHIND THE SCENES.

THESE ARE NOT THINGS THAT ARE IN FRONT OF US.

SO WE OFTEN HEAR ABOUT WHAT'S IN FRONT OF US.

WE HEAR ABOUT THE CONDITION OF THE ROADS.

WE KNOW WHEN A PIPE BREAKS.

BUT WE DON'T TYPICALLY TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS OUT AT RIO OR A WILDCAT.

COUNSEL YOU WERE JUST GIVEN A LOT OF INFORMATION TALKING ABOUT SOME PRETTY URGENT NEEDS ALL OF WHICH ARE GOING TO HAVE SIGNIFICANT IMPACT FROM A BUDGETARY STANDPOINT.

WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT SOME FUNDING STRATEGIES.

I THINK I SAW RICK TYLER COME INTO THE AUDIENCE EARLIER.

AND WE WILL SEGUE INTO THAT BUT BEFORE WE DO, I WOULD INVITE MORE DISCUSSION ON THIS VERY IMPORTANT TOPIC AND EVEN THOUGH IT'S A BEHIND THE SCENES UTILITY, IT'S NOT THE FOREFRONT OF THE SERVICES THAT WE PROVIDE AND SOMETHING THAT NEEDS A LOT OF ATTENTION AND IT STARTS RIGHT NOW WITH THIS RETREAT.

THE PREVIOUS COUNCIL HAD A SIMILAR DISCUSSION FRANKLY, WHEN THE BIO-SOLIDS MASTER PLAN WAS PRODUCED AND IT'S AN EXCELLENT READ.

WE HAD A NICE PRESENTATION AND THAT INFORMATION WAS AT THE TABLE.

THIS IS NOT EXACTLY A REPEAT.

IT IS IN SOME SENSE BUT IT'S A CONTINUATION OF THAT DISCUSSION BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE NUMBERS AND MORE THINGS TO TALK ABOUT HERE WITH RESPECT TO THE UTILITY BUT IT HAS BEEN ON THE TABLE FOR A WHILE BUT THE URGENCY IS GROWING AND THE COSTS ARE NOT SHRINKING.

THEY WILL ONLY INCREASE OVER TIME.

THEN AS WE LOOK AT IT THROUGH THE LENS OF SUSTAINABILITY AND ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP, IT BRINGS ABOUT ANOTHER DISCUSSION AND THE TWO GO HAND IN HAND.

WE WANT TO ENHANCE THE UTILITY.

WE ALSO WANT TO BE GOOD STEWARDS OF OUR RESOURCES AND WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT ALL ALTERNATIVE ENERGY PRODUCTION.

SO WITH ALL THAT,

[01:25:02]

WE'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU.

WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO MAKE A COMMENT ON THIS.

WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME. THANKS.

>> NICK?

>> I'M JUST WONDERING, DO WE HAVE ANY COST ESTIMATES OR TURNING THE BIOMASS INTO ENERGY? I JUST PULLED UP THE ECONOMIC ANALYSIS FOR THE USED BIOMASS.

I KNOW THAT WAS DONE A DECADE AGO OR SO [NOISE] AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH WE CAN GLEAN OFF OF THAT, APRIL 2014.

HAS THE TECHNOLOGY CHANGED DRASTICALLY SINCE THEN TO ASSUME SOME LEVEL OF COSTS [INAUDIBLE] IS DONE ALONG SOUTH CAMPUS?

>> MAYOR AND COUNCIL, I WOULD HAVE TO DO MORE RESEARCH IN TERMS OF TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT AND I'M NOT SURE IF YOU'RE KEPT UP ON.

>> I JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT IT ABOUT A WEEK AND A HALF AGO, SO I'M DUE TO THAT ONE.

IF I CAN FIND SOME NUMBERS, I WILL GET BACK WITH YOU.

>> OKAY. I CAN SEND IT TO THE BIOMASS FEASIBILITY STUDY IN THE YEAR 2014.

IT DID GIVE SOME COST ESTIMATES AND A FEW DIFFERENT OPTIONS.

THEY TOOK A LITTLE BIT OF A LESSER ROUNDS ON IT BUT WITH HOW FAST TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPS, I DON'T FEEL IF WHAT WAS IN 2014 IS STILL THE EQUIVALENT.

KILOWATTS PER DOLLAR SPENT.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> OUR CORE QUESTION IS GIVEN THE URGENCY OF THIS AND THEN COST, I'M GUESSING THIS IS GOING TO BE A BOND INITIATIVE. IS THAT CORRECT?

>> YEAH. BRAD, WHEN ARE WE QUEUED UP TO TALK ABOUT FINANCIAL STRATEGY? IS THAT AT THE END OF THE MORNING?

>> OKAY, SO WE'LL TALK ABOUT SOME OTHER TIME.

>> [OVERLAPPING] I'LL ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

>> OKAY. THANKS. SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A STORMWATER PRESENTATION AFTER THIS AND AT THE END OF THAT PRESENTATION, WE PUT TOGETHER A FEW SLIDES TO TALK ABOUT WATER SERVICES, FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS, OF WHICH WE'LL HAVE ALL THE CONSIDERATIONS.

YOU'RE GOING TO SEE SOME PRETTY LARGE NUMBERS SO GIVEN AN ESTIMATE ON JUST THE BIO-SOLIDS, PIECE IS A BIT MORE DIFFICULT.

THE OVERALL COST, YOU'LL SEE SOME VERY LARGE NUMBERS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE OF OUR WASTEWATER SYSTEM.

>> BUT ACTUALLY, MY OTHER QUESTION IS ARE THERE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES THAT ARE HANDLING THIS IN A WAY THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO GO VISIT OR TALK TO?

>> THERE ARE DIFFERENT FACILITIES AND WE DO GET OUT TO GO SEE THOSE.

BOTH MYSELF AND MY STAFF AND WE LOOK AT THOSE.

BUT SINCE COVID'S BEEN IN EFFECT, WE REALLY HAVEN'T BEEN TRAVELING ANYWHERE TO SEE THOSE.

WE GO TO CONFERENCES AND LISTEN FOR NEW UPDATES.

WE ALSO TALK TO THE CONSULTANTS AND FIND OUT ABOUT WHAT NEW TECHNOLOGIES ARE OUT THERE? WHICH ONES ARE PROVEN? WE NEVER WANT TO DO THAT. FIRST ONE.

WE WANT SOMETHING THAT'S PROVEN SO THAT WE KNOW THAT IT'S GOING TO WORK WHENEVER WE GOING TO PUT IT IN.

>> BRAD, YOU COME UP AND ASK YOUR COMMENTS ON THAT?

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE PROPOSING IN TERMS OF THE DESIGN IS KNOWN AS THE MEMBRANE BIOREACTOR.

NOT THAT THAT'S IMPORTANT BUT IT'S A VERY SOPHISTICATED MEMBRANE WAY TO TREAT WASTE WATER.

ONE OF THE LARGEST OR THE LARGEST AND THE FIRST IN ARIZONA IS MY FORMER CITY DONE AT CITY OF PEORIA.

SO IF YOU WANT TO GO SEE WHAT A POTENTIAL OF WHAT THIS COMMUNITY CAN BUILD, CITY OF PEORIA, IT'S KNOWN AS THE BUTLER WATER RECLAMATION FACILITY, IS A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE IF YOU'RE INTERESTED TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

>> WE CAN INCLUDE PHOTOS, EXAMPLES.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

>> THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.

>> BRIAN MADE A REALLY GOOD ANALOGY, THIS MORNING THAT OUR CURRENT TECHNOLOGY IS LIKE BASKETBALLS.

WE CAN TAKE OUT BASKETBALLS.

THE NEW ONES WOULD BE LIKE BEING ABLE TO TAKE OUT PVS.

[LAUGHTER]

>> SO THAT'S COMING BACK TO COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY'S QUESTION.

THAT'S WHY I SAID EARLIER THAT TECHNOLOGY SETS AND PIVOTS THE CITY PERFECTLY FOR DIRECT POTABLE REUSE BECAUSE THAT COMMUNITY DOWN AT CITY PERIOA IS LOOKING AT THE SAME ISSUES YOU ARE.

SO THAT'S THE DIRECTION WE'RE LOOKING AT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> COUNCIL I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT OUR CITY ATTORNEY IS BACK WITH HANDOUTS TO SPEAK LIKE, OH BOY, [LAUGHTER] [OVERLAPPING] I'D LIKE TO NOTIFY YOU.

>> LET'S GO.

>> COUNCIL STERLING FIRST AND THEN CITY ATTORNEY.

UNLESS HE STARTS READING IT.

>> ALL GOOD. I'M DONE SPEAKING.

WE'RE GOOD. [LAUGHTER]

[01:30:02]

>> WELL, THANK YOU. I JUST WANT TO REDIRECT THE FULL GOES ON BEST LINE THAT TALKS ABOUT THE BASE EXPANSION WHICH IS SAP RECOMMENDATION AND LET THAT NUMBER SINK IN BECAUSE WE'RE LOOKING AT A 180 MILLION IN TOTAL.

[BACKGROUND]

>> THANK YOU.

>> YES. SO BEFORE WE SEGUE, JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND.

180 MILLION BUT TODAY'S CAUSE AND HOW YOU PROGRAMMED THAT EXPENSE MOVING FORWARD.

>> I'LL MAKE A COMMENT [INAUDIBLE] TO COME DOWN [NOISE].

IF IT'S OKAY.

ONE OF THE THINGS IS IF YOU LOOK AT, I THINK YOUR POINT ABOUT THE COST IS A BIG ISSUE BECAUSE AS YOU GUYS WELL KNOW AS A CITY, YOU'RE DEALING WITH MULTIPLE COSTS, MULTIPLE DIRECTIONS.

THEN YOU'LL BE HAVING A DIALOGUE ABOUT THE RECLAIMED WATER AND MIRROR THAT FITS IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS, THERE MAY BE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.

THEN THESE ADDITIONAL OPPORTUNITIES ON BIOSOLIDS AND YOU'RE ALL GOOD STUFF.

I'VE BEEN VERY INVOLVED IN THAT.

BUT I THINK THAT'S WHY IT'S FUTURE, EVEN IF THE TWO BIG PHASED OPTIONS HERE ARE PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD IN THE SENSE BOTH PREPARE YOU TO DO THINGS IN THE FUTURE.

IT'S JUST THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT YOU WANT TO DO NOW.

BUT THESE FALL ON DISCUSSIONS ON RECLAIMED WATER AND BIOSOLIDS.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE INTEGRATING THE BENEFITS AND THE COSTS IN A BIG WAY.

I'VE JUST SUGGESTED THAT BILLS WILL BE PRETTY ROBUST DISCUSSIONS WHEN YOU GET TO THAT SIDE OF THE IMAGE. THAT'S ALL.

>> YOU. YES, STIRLING. YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD.

>> SORRY. I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE MUTE THERE FOR A LITTLE BIT, BUT I'LL TURN MY CAMERA OFF I JUST WANT TO LET YOU ALL KNOW THAT THERE'S SOME ILLNESS FLOATING AROUND IN MY HOUSEHOLD AND I DIDN'T WANT TO SPREAD THAT KIND OF LOVE.

THAT'S WHY I'M HERE REMOTELY THIS MORNING.

THEN I'LL TURN MY CAMERA OFF BECAUSE I'M ALREADY GETTING SOME GLITCHINESS.

I LOVED THE DISCUSSION.

WHEN I SAID ALL GOOD IN THE CHAT, I LITERALLY MEANT ALL GOOD.

NOBODY HAS SAID ANYTHING WRONG.

I'VE BEEN LISTENING INTENTLY. IT'S BEEN GREAT.

I'VE WORKED CLOSELY WITH THE WATER SERVICES DIVISION FOR SOME TIME AND I APPRECIATE THE GREAT WORK THAT THEY CONTINUE TO DO AND WHAT THEY PRESENTED TO YOU HERE TODAY.

ONE THING I DID WANT TO BRING UP IN REFERENCING A GREENER APPROACH, MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED APPROACH TO THE DISPOSAL OF BIOSOLIDS AND THE USE OF THE SAME.

I AM AWARE OF A COUPLE OF COMMUNITIES AROUND THE STATE OF ARIZONA THAT REALLY WANTED TO GO THAT DIRECTION AND GOT AHEAD OF THEMSELVES, DIDN'T DOT THE I'S AND CROSS THE T'S FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE.

NOT THAT I WORRY THAT WE WOULDN'T DO THAT, BUT I WILL JUST CALL OUT THAT CAUTION THAT MAKES SURE THAT WE ARE PRODUCING THE A-PLUS BIOSOLIDS WHEN WE MOVE TOWARD THAT.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN'T BE EMPHASIZED ENOUGH AS FAR AS MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE WHERE WE NEED TO BE BEFORE WE START OFFERING OUR BIOSOLIDS FOR USE AS FERTILIZER ON GOLF COURSES OR YARDS OR WHEREVER ELSE.

MAYBE THE CASE, THERE ARE LEGAL PARAMETERS AND WE WOULD OBVIOUSLY HAVE TO STAY WITHIN THOSE PATHS THAT I WORRY WE WOULDN'T.

I JUST BRING THAT UP SO EVERYONE IS AWARE. THANK YOU ALL.

YES. SINCE WE'VE HAD A LITTLE TIME, I KNOW WE'LL GET INTO THE COSTS LATER ON.

BUT THE FILE WE DO WITH THESE PRICE TAGS LOOKS AT COST RECOVERY OBVIOUSLY.

ONE OF THOSE COST CURVE RECOVERIES REALLY IS THE BIO CHART OPTION.

THE USE IS EXPECTING A 15 PERCENT INTERNAL RATE OF RETURN FOR THEIR INVESTMENTS INTO THEIR BIOMASS [INAUDIBLE].

AGAIN, THIS WAS IN 2014.

THE TOTAL PROJECT COSTS OF THE THREE DIFFERENT SCENARIOS RANGE FROM 4.2 MILLION TO 30 MILLION DOLLARS, BUT AGAIN, 15 PERCENT IN GENERAL RETURN PER YEAR.

LET'S PLEASE KEEP THAT IN MIND AS WE DEVELOP THIS I KNOW WE'LL HAVE OTHER CHALLENGES GOING ON, BUT MAYBE THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNITIES HERE, THAT ADDS UP THE NUMBERS.

BUT I'D LIKE TO INVESTIGATE MORE THOROUGHLY AS CITY.

NICOLE. DO WE HAVE A THIRD OBJECTIVE? DO WE HAVE A GO-FORWARD ON SOME OF THESE CONVERSATIONS IN THE NEXT SIX MONTHS? ONCE WE GET THROUGH THAT YEAR OUT.

YEAH. I THINK IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

THE PURPOSE OF THIS WHOLE RETREAT,

[01:35:02]

THIS IS ONE OF FOUR TOPICS IS TO INFORM AND ENLIGHTEN.

WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR DECISIONS HERE TODAY BUT WE'RE LOOKING FOR GOOD INPUT.

AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, IT'S A CONTINUATION OF A DISCUSSION THAT NEEDS TO OCCUR.

BUT I ALSO KNOW WE WERE TO SOME WAY TO SOME FINDING STRATEGIES.

RICK TOWN OR I DON'T KNOW IF WE WERE GOING TO DO THAT AT THE END OF THE MORNING OR AT THE END OF EACH SESSION.

I WOULD INVITE YOU TO [INAUDIBLE] WHEN YOU WOULD LIKE TO.

WE ARE BRAINSTORMING HERE, BUT IT'S JUST A GOOD TIME TO TALK ABOUT FLOODING OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO WAIT TILL THE END OF THE MORNING.

AFTER WATER SERVICES PREVENT. [INAUDIBLE].

OKAY. THE NEXT TOPIC WILL BE STORMWATER.

WE'LL SEGUE INTO THAT.

THEN BEFORE WE CONCLUDE FOR LUNCH, AFTER WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THESE TWO IMPORTANT WATER SERVICE TOPICS.

WE WILL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT FINDING STRATEGIES.

I WILL PREFACE THAT CONVERSATION BY NOTING THE COSTS WERE SEEING IT ON THIS OBVIOUSLY IS GOING TO TAKE SOME STRATEGIZING.

OBVIOUSLY, THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY, BUT IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN PROBABLY IN THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.

THERE'S GOING TO NEED TO BE A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW TO FINANCE THIS AND PERHAPS HOW TO RECOVER ON THE BACKEND SOME OF THE COSTS THAT ARE GOING INTO IT.

WE WILL BE HAVING THAT DISCUSSION A LITTLE BIT LATER.

ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ON THE OVERALL TOPIC IN FRONT OF YOU? IS IT MAKING SENSE? IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE ON BOARD WITH IN TERMS OF THE CONTENT THAT'S PRESENTED TO YOU? I'M SEEING SOME HEAD NODS, THUMBS UP. THUMBS UP. THANK YOU.

[LAUGHTER] GREAT.

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU NEED FROM THIS CONVERSATION? IF WE'RE GETTING READY TO TURN FROM THIS FIRST TOPIC, IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO RECOGNIZE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED HERE.

I'M NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE LIST BECAUSE I WILL EXCLUDE PEOPLE.

THIS HAS BEEN A REAL TEAM EFFORT.

I WANT TO IMPRESS UPON COUNCIL THAT THE NARRATIVE THAT HAS UNFOLDED IN FRONT OF YOU THIS MORNING ON THIS TOPIC OCCURRED, STARTED TO COME TOGETHER SEVERAL WEEKS AGO.

THE WATER SERVICES TEAM, WHICH IS WORKING DILIGENTLY ON THIS PRESENTATION IN MID-AUGUST.

HERE WE ARE AT THE END OF SEPTEMBER.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CAREFUL PRESENTATION OR PREPARATION PROBABLY GOING INTO THIS, I ALSO WANT TO KNOW, THESE DISCUSSIONS WILL OCCUR WITH OUR WATER COMMISSION.

THEY WILL BE VETTED THROUGH THE MANY COMMISSIONS. I'M SURE.

BACK TO THE COUNCIL DATA-SET.

WE KNOW IT NEEDS TO BE A TOPIC THAT IS VERY THOROUGHLY VETTED.

IT COMES WITH A COUPLE OF PRICE TAGS.

OBVIOUSLY, WE NEED TO OUTREACH TO THE COMMUNITY AND GET A LOT OF INPUT, AND EXCHANGE A LOT OF INFORMATION.

BACK TO THIS MORNING'S PRESENTATION.

WE HAVE A FEW PEOPLE WHO HAVE JOINED US.

THAT I WILL START BY ACKNOWLEDGING AND THEN INVITE YOU, ANDY, TO MAYBE RECOGNIZE REST OF THE WATER SERVICES TEAM.

WE HAVE PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE, WE HAVE SOME PEOPLE ATTENDING VIRTUALLY, NOT IN ANY PARTICULAR ORDER.

BUT MAYBE YOU COULD READ IT AS A PRIORITY.

I DON'T KNOW, BRAD HILL IS JOINING US.

HE ALWAYS TALKS THE MIST OF BREAD AND WHEAT.

MUCH APPRECIATE YOUR CONSULTATION HERE.

BRAD HAS BEEN TRYING TO RETIRE FOR SOME TIME. [LAUGHTER] WE HAVE FOUND A WAY TO WORK WITH HIM IN THAT ENDEAVOR.

HE'S BEEN GENEROUS WITH HIS CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE CITY.

HE'S BEEN WORKING THROUGH OUR LEADERSHIP TRANSITION OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS.

WE'RE SO GRATEFUL FOR THAT.

BUT HE'S ALSO HELPING US OUT WITH THE SUBSTANCE OF THE THINGS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

EVENTUALLY, WHEN YOU DO RETIRE FOR GOOD AND FOR REAL, REST ASSURE THAT WE WILL BE GRATEFUL FOR THE CONTRIBUTIONS THAT YOU'VE BROUGHT FORWARD, [INAUDIBLE], AND YOUR INPUT INTO THIS VERY IMPORTANT DISCUSSION.

JOHN, YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR INTRODUCTION AND THANK YOU, YOU WORKED WITH LA AND STUFF.

WHERE ARE YOU BASED OUT OF?

>> I'M ACTUALLY IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, IN SAN DIEGO AREA.

I WORK WITH UTILITY.

THEY'VE WORKED WITH UTILITY ALL OVER THE PLACE, INCLUDING BIG UTILITIES, LOS ANGELES DEPARTMENTAL, ONE OF OUR BIG SANITATION DISTRICTS LIKE ORANGE COUNTY SANITATION DISTRICT.

ONE OF MY CLIENTS, IS THE GROUNDWATER REPLENISHMENT SYSTEM AT ORANGE COUNTY WATER DISTRICT, WHICH IS A MAJOR, ONE OF THE WORLDWIDE FAMOUS, AND [INAUDIBLE] REUSE PROJECTS.

I GET THAT I WAS THE LEAD INVESTIGATOR ON PORTABLE REUSED PUBLIC PERCEPTIONS AND ONE OF THE FIRST WATER RE-USE FOUNDATION PROJECT.

NOT TO GET TOO MUCH INTO MY BACKGROUND BUT ITS PRETTY DIVERSE.

SINCE YOU SINGLED ME OUT HERE,

[01:40:03]

I JUST WANT TO SAY ONE THING.I'M NOT JUST SAYING THIS, IT IS REALLY REFRESHING TO WORK WITH THE PEOPLE OF FLAGSTAFF [INAUDIBLE] IT'S SUPER COLLABORATIVE.

YOU'VE JUST MENTIONED HOW MANY COLLABORATION SESSIONS WE'VE GOT ON THIS PROCESS.

THAT'S NOT ALWAYS THE CASE IN UTILITIES.

THE COLLABORATIVE PROCESS HERE IS REALLY IMPRESSED WITH IT, AND IT'S THANKFUL TO BE A PART OF IT.

I ANSWERED A LOT MORE THAN YOUR QUESTION [OVERLAPPING]

>> NO, IT WAS BEAUTIFUL.

WE'RE ACTUALLY THANKFUL FIRST OF ALL, THAT YOU'RE HERE FROM SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

THANKS FOR JOINING US. THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENTS.

WITH YOUR CREDENTIALS AND BACKGROUND, WE KNOW WE'RE IN GOOD COMPANY HERE AND THE MANY OF THE THINGS YOU REFERENCED ARE THINGS THAT ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO THE FLAGSTAFF COMMUNITY.

WE'RE HONORED TO HAVE YOUR PRESENCE AND YOUR EXPERTISE.

BRIAN BERNARD, I KNOW YOU HAD INVOLVEMENT WITH OUR MASTER PLANNING EFFORTS WITH CAROLLO AND WE'RE SO GRATEFUL TO HAVE YOU.

WHERE ARE YOU FROM, BRIAN, CAN YOU ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND?

>> I WORK IN CAROLLOS' OFFICE DOWN IN PHOENIX BUT I'VE BEEN WORKING UP IN FLAGSTAFF FOR PROBABLY 18 YEARS NOW.

I'VE WATCHED THE CITY GROW AND THERE WAS A MENTION OF THE STEWARDSHIP THAT IF I COULD SAY SOMETHING TO THAT TO THE BIOSOLIDS MANAGEMENT PROJECT THAT WE DID, WHICH IS A PROGRAM, IT'S A MASTER PLAN.

WE LOOKED AT EXPANDING YOUR PORTFOLIO FOR WAYS TO TREAT AND MANAGE HAUL AND DISPOSE BIOSOLIDS, BUT ALSO YOUR CAPACITY ISSUES.

IF THERE'S ANYTHING AS JOHN HAS MENTIONED, WORKING WITH YOUR STAFF HAS BEEN A PLEASURE.

THEY DO A WONDERFUL JOB AT YOUR TREATMENT PLANTS.

I KNOW THIS MESSAGE. IT'S A SHOCK.

I THINK SOMEBODY MENTIONED EARLIER STICKER SHOCK.

SOMETIMES WE LOOK AT THAT FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

WHERE YOUR TREATMENT PLANT IS 50 YEARS OLD.

IF YOU LOOKED AT THE HISTORY OF IT, THE INVESTMENT INTO IT HAS BEEN RELATIVELY MINIMAL, [INAUDIBLE].

YOU MAYBE AT THE POINT OF YOU COULD LOOK AT THAT.

THAT GIVES INFLUENCES PRETTY MUCH ALL THE BLOOD OUT OF THAT STONE YOU ALMOST CAN'T.

THAT BRINGS US TO HERE TODAY.

BUT IN WORKING WITH YOUR STAFF AND THE JOB THAT YOUR STAFF DOES ON A DAILY BASIS HAS REALLY BEEN A PLEASURE FOR US FOR [INAUDIBLE].

I'M NOT GOING TO EXPECT EVERYBODY.

THE BIOSOLIDS MASTER PLANT IS 2700 PAGES.

I KNOW WE JUST TOUCHED ON SOME OF THAT TODAY, BUT IF ANYBODY WANTS A COPY OF THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY OF THAT OR THE PLAN ITSELF, LET ME KNOW.

I CAN SEND THAT IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT.

BUT ALL IN ALL, THIS HAS BEEN A WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE.

SOMEBODY DID MENTION EARLIER ABOUT THE COST RECOVERY AND I WANTED TO BRING UP YOUR DLD BECAUSE THAT WAS BROUGHT UP AND WE'VE LOOKED AT MANY DIFFERENT WAYS, BUT THAT'S ONE EXAMPLE THAT YOUR STAFF HAS BEEN REALLY WONDERFUL WITH, THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY COMMUNITY IN ARIZONA THAT CAN TAKE YOUR SOLIDS AND PUT IT RIGHT NEXT TO ONE OF THE PLANTS, LITERALLY RIGHT THERE.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO DE-WATER IT.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAUL IT.

THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT YOU SAVE WITH THAT, I THINK THERE'S MANY OF THESE DIFFERENT THINGS WITHIN THE BNP AND THAT YOU'RE CURRENTLY DOING, THAT'S KUDOS TO YOUR STAFF.

JIM AND HIS GROUP AND THE ENTIRE WATER SERVICES STAFF, THE GROUP.

I JUST THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME HERE.

YOU ALL HAVE WONDERFUL SHOES. [LAUGHTER]

>> WHAT'S UP WITH THE SHOES TODAY.

WHAT'S THE COLORS FOR THOSE WHO CAN'T SEE? [LAUGHTER] BRIAN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS AND THANK YOU AGAIN FOR HONORING US WITH YOUR PRESENCE AND YOUR EXPERTISE TO IT.

THAT GOES BACK AWHILE WITH BOTH YOU AND JOHN HAVE HAD INVOLVEMENT WITH THE CITY FOR SOME TIME, BUT BRAD SAID A COMMENT WITH AN EXCLAMATION POINT NEXT TO IT.

BRAD AND JOHN AND BRIAN, WE'RE HONORED TO HAVE YOUR EXPERTISE AT THE TABLE.

NICOLE, I WANT TO RECOGNIZE YOUR INPUT INTO THIS, WHICH ILLUSTRATES THE COLLABORATION THAT GOES INTO THESE DISCUSSIONS AND IN A SHORT WHILE WE'LL HEAR FROM RICK [INAUDIBLE] BRINGING THE FINANCIAL PICTURE.

SUSTAINABILITY, WATER SERVICES, FINANCIAL SERVICES, AND THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.

TRULY COLLABORATIVE EFFORT.

ANDY, I'M WONDERING IF WE COULD ASK OUR WATER SERVICES TEAM TO STAND AND MAYBE YOU COULD TO RECOGNIZE THEM.

IN DOING SO, WE CERTAINLY ARE ALSO RECOGNIZING THOSE WHO ARE NOT IN THE ROOM, BUT ATTENDING VIRTUALLY IT'S A LARGE TEAM AND WE'RE SO GRATEFUL TO HAVE YOUR LEADERSHIP AND THAT OF AARON BEFORE YOU.

YEAH, IF YOU DON'T MIND. [OVERLAPPING]

>> THANK YOU. YEAH, GO AHEAD AND STAND.

ERIN YOUNG WAS OUR INTERIM WATER SERVICES DIRECTOR FOR A TIME.

I THINK A LOT OF THIS DISCUSSION SPEAKS TO THE WORK THAT AARON AND BRAD WERE ABLE TO DO FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME AND STEPPING INTO THE WATER SERVICES GROUP.

I ALWAYS, WHEN IN PUBLIC WORKS, WANTED TO POSITION PUBLIC WORKS SIMILAR TO THE POSITION OF WATER SERVICES.

[01:45:01]

BY THAT I MEAN THE PROACTIVE PLANNING AND THE EFFORT THAT HAD GONE INTO THAT AND THE PROFESSIONALIZATION.

TIM CARRINGTON ISN'T HERE, BUT HE AND CJ WORKED CLOSELY TOGETHER IN AUTOMATING OUR SYSTEM.

THAT WAS ALWAYS SOMETHING THAT WE ASPIRED TO DO IN PUBLIC WORKS.

I KNOW SCOTT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO WORK ON THOSE SYSTEM AUTOMIZATIONS.

MARK RICHARDSON, IF THERE'S A PIPE IN THE GROUND, HE KNOWS WHERE IT'S LOCATED AND IF IT'S NOT WHERE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE LOCATED, HE'S GOING TO FIND IT 18 FEET UNDER FILL MATERIAL.

[LAUGHTER] BUT HE AND PATRICK O'CONNOR IN THE TEAM ARE JUST UNBELIEVABLE, AND HONESTLY I WOULDN'T HAVE COME OVER TO WATER SERVICES HAD I NOT KNOWN THAT.

BECAUSE YOUR CORE HAS TO BE STRONG.

IN ORDER FOR YOUR CORE TO BE STRONG, THEN YOU CAN BUILD FROM THAT.

THAT'S WHAT BRAD WAS ABLE TO DO.

I REALLY RECOGNIZED THAT DURING THE MUSEUM FIRE AND FLOODING AND JUST THE RESPONSE EFFORTS.

MY FIRST DAY OFFICIALLY IN THE POSITION WE DID HAVE THAT WATER MAIN BREAK AND I GOT TO EXPLAIN.

[OVERLAPPING] [LAUGHTER] [BACKGROUND] I'M BEGINNING TO THINK IT'S ME AND SO THANK YOU FOR THAT.

LISA DEAN IS PROBABLY ON THE CALL.

SHE HELPS US MANAGE OUR BUDGETS AND COMMUNICATIONS AND WE ARE VERY FORTUNATE TO HAVE THAT POSITION IN WATER SERVICES.

LISA AND OTHERS HAVE ASSURED ME THAT IF JIM [INAUDIBLE] IS GIVEN A BUDGET, HE WILL SPEND IT.

[LAUGHTER] I CAN TELL YOU IN CORE SERVICES, THAT'S A VERY GOOD THING, BECAUSE THAT MEANS WE'RE MAKING THOSE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SYSTEM THAT WE NEED TO MAKE.

PENNY-WISE, POUND FOOLISH, WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO INVEST IN OUR CORE INFRASTRUCTURE AND WE'RE VERY LUCKY TO HAVE JIM THAT UNDERSTANDS THAT COMPLETELY FROM THAT WASTEWATER PERSPECTIVE.

WE'RE MANAGING ISSUES THAT AT ANYTIME WE COULD BE UNDER CONSENT DECREE FROM THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY OR THE EPA.

I HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE WITH THAT, MANAGING THE KITCHEN.

AT VILLAGE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT, WE WERE ABLE TO WORK TO CORRECT THAT.

I KNOW THAT WE'VE HAD SOME CONCERNS IN THE PAST AND BRAD, JIM AND TEAM HAVE GOTTEN US TO A PLACE WHERE OUR CORE IS STRONG.

THANK YOU FOR THAT.

I'M PROBABLY MISSING SOMEBODY.

[INAUDIBLE] WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT STORMWATER HERE IN A LITTLE BIT.

THEN NICOLE, THE INVOLVEMENT WITH SUSTAINABILITY.

AGAIN, THAT BROADER VISION THAT SHE'S HAD FOR INCORPORATING IT THROUGHOUT THE SYSTEM, AND IT'S BEEN REALLY FUN TO HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS EVEN THOUGH THE NUMBERS ARE VERY LARGE AND OVERWHELMING.

FRANKLY, WE KNOW WHERE WE WANT TO BE.

IT'S THAT CHECKS AND BALANCES IN THE SYSTEM THAT ARE SUPER-HELPFUL.

THEN GREG'S LEADERSHIP WHEN I STEPPED INTO WATER SERVICES, IT WAS EVIDENT FROM DAY 1, THE LOVE AND ATTENTION THAT HE PUT IN TO THE GROUP THAT WAS NECESSARY.

WHILE WE WANT TO FLUSH THE TOILET AND KNOW THAT EVERYTHING WORKS OR TURN ON OUR FAUCET AND KNOW THAT UTILITIES WORK, AND WE TAKE THAT FOR GRANTED, WE CAN'T TAKE THE PEOPLE FOR GRANTED THAT ARE DOING THAT WORK.

I PROBABLY MISSED SOME FOLKS.

HOPEFULLY I DID NOT, STEVE CAMP IS NOT HERE IN TERMS OF, WE TALKED ABOUT OUR INDUSTRIAL USERS, AND AGAIN, ALWAYS A CONCERN ABOUT THE VIOLATION AND THE SYSTEM ALWAYS MANAGING TO THAT, AND STEPHEN JOLENE ENSURED THAT WE ARE IN ORDER.

THAT'S SO HUGELY IMPORTANT.

JUST BECAUSE AT ANY GIVEN TIME [NOISE] WE COULD HAVE A SITUATION.

BRAD HILL, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE BRAD AND WE WERE IN A DISCUSSION LAST WEEK AND BRAD MADE THE COMMENT "OUR SYSTEM." HE SAID, "I'M SORRY I'M NOT INVOLVED ANYMORE." GREG, I HOPE IT WAS OKAY.

BUT AGAIN SAID BRAD, PLEASE CALL IT OUR SYSTEM AND PERPETUITY.

>> ABSOLUTELY. [OVERLAPPING] YEAH, THANK YOU.

WAS THERE ANYBODY ELSE?

>> MAYBE I HOPE NOT.

AM I MISSING ANYONE? GUYS.

>> WE'RE GOOD. [OVERLAPPING]

>> WE HAVE ANOTHER TOPIC HERE CONCERNING WATER SERVICES.

WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK BEFORE WE DO, I'M WONDERING IF WE COULD ALL RECOGNIZE THEIR HARD WORK AND A GREAT COLLABORATION.

THAT RESULTED TO THE PRESENTATION YOU JUST HAD.

[NOISE]

>> WITH THAT, WE'RE A LITTLE AHEAD OF SCHEDULE.

IT'S 10:22.

WE HAVE SCHEDULED FOR A 15-MINUTE BREAK.

BACK IN ACTION AT 10:37.

[BACKGROUND]

[01:50:02]

EVERYBODY'S PROBABLY HEARD OF CIRCADIAN RHYTHMS, THE 24-HOUR CYCLES THAT WE GO THROUGH.

IF YOUR KIDS GET OFF THAT CYCLE, THAT'S WHY THEY WON'T GO TO BED ON THE RIGHT TIME, THEY'RE WAKING UP ALL HOURS OF THE NIGHT.

THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED ULTRADIAN RHYTHMS AS WELL.

ULTRADIAN RHYTHMS OPERATE IN A 90-MINUTE CYCLE.

NINETY MINUTES OF HIGH-FREQUENCY OUTPUT AND ATTENTION, 20 MINUTES OF LOWER FREQUENCY OUTPUT AND ATTENTION.

WE JUST HAD OUR 15, 20-MINUTE BREAK.

WE'RE GETTING BACK INTO ANOTHER SEGMENT HERE.

WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT STORMWATER.

LITTLE DIFFERENT BUT RELATED TOPICS.

BEFORE WE START, JUST TO SET IN THAT LAST PIECE OF THAT LITTLE 20-MINUTE LOWER FREQUENCY OF THE ULTRADIAN RHYTHM, GO AHEAD AND GIVE A STRETCH.

IF YOU RECALL FROM THE VIRTUAL RETREAT, THIS IS CALLED PANDICULATION.

IT'S OKAY TO DO IN PUBLIC.

IT'S COMPLETELY APPROPRIATE.

IT'S THE THING THAT ANY ANIMAL WITH A SPINE DOES.

IT'S ACTUALLY A CONTRACTION AND A RELAX OF YOUR MUSCLES.

WHAT THAT DOES IS, IT WILL ACTUALLY RELEASE DOPAMINE INTO YOUR SYSTEM.

IT'LL ACTUALLY HELP YOU FEEL BETTER, MEANING WE ARE GOING TO BE MORE ATTENTIVE AND MORE PRESENT FOR WHAT WE ARE DOING.

WITH THAT, ANY HOUSEKEEPING ITEMS BEFORE WE HAND IT OVER?

>> REAL FAST. I'D LIKE TO PREFACE THIS NEXT DISCUSSION BY SAYING, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU.

I THOUGHT THE FORMAT IN THE ENGAGEMENT IN THE LAST CONVERSATION WAS PERFECT.

I WOULD INVITE MORE OF THE SAME.

IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF AN EXCHANGE, A LOT OF INFORMATION, SOME GOOD QUESTIONS, SOME GOOD COMMENTS, SO THANK YOU FOR THAT.

LET'S PLEASE KEEP THAT GOING.

THE OTHER THING I'D LIKE TO SHARE WITH THIS GROUP IS WHEN WE ENDEAVORED TO PUT TOGETHER THIS AGENDA FOR THIS RETREAT AND THIS GOES BACK NOW A FEW MONTHS.

YES, WE ACTUALLY DO THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS THAT MUCH IN ADVANCE.

THE FALL RETREAT, THIS SEPTEMBER 30TH RETREAT, IS A NON-BUDGET RETREAT EVEN THOUGH EVERYTHING INVOLVES BUDGET EVENTUALLY.

[INAUDIBLE] IS GOING TO CHAT LATER ABOUT THAT.

BUT THIS WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO ENGAGE ON SOME TOPICS AND NOT SO MUCH IN THE REALM OF HOUSEKEEPING, BUT IN THE REALM OF JUST FOCUS ON THESE THINGS, BIG PICTURE AND DISCUSS.

WE DON'T HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY VERY MUCH.

WE RETREAT FOUR TIMES A YEAR.

IT GOES LIKE THIS; FALL, WINTER, WINTER, SPRING.

WE DON'T RETREAT OVER THE SUMMER.

IN THE OTHER THREE RETREATS, IT'S GOING TO BE BUDGET, BUDGET, AND BUDGET, BECAUSE EVERYTHING PERTAINS TO BUDGET.

WE TALK ABOUT STUFF IN THE CONTEXT OF BUDGETING, BUT NOT LIKE THIS.

THIS IS A RARE OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO TALK ABOUT SOME THINGS THAT ARE VERY IMPORTANT.

I WANT TO IMPRESS UPON COUNCIL, ESPECIALLY THAT THIS TOPIC THAT WE'RE ABOUT TO HAVE ON STORMWATER WAS PUT ON THE AGENDA AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SUMMER, THE DRAFT AGENDA, PRIOR TO MONSOON SEASON.

WHY DO I SAY THAT? BECAUSE WE KNEW THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS TOPIC TO YOU AND TO THE COMMUNITY, TO ALL OF US.

NOW IT'S JUST BEEN VALIDATED BECAUSE OF THE EVENTS THIS SUMMER.

NOW IT'S IN OUR FACE.

OUR MOST RECENT MEETING ON THIS WAS LAST NIGHT AT SUNNYSIDE.

IT'S AN ONGOING DIALOGUE.

IT COULD NOT BE OF MORE IMPORTANCE BECAUSE OF THE EVENTS THIS SUMMER.

I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW THIS WAS AGENDIZED BEFORE THIS YEAR'S MONSOON.

ANDY, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SHARE TO KICK THIS THING OFF?

>> WELL, WHERE THERE'S DANCING, THERE'S RHYTHM.

THANKS FOR GETTING US INTO A GOOD RHYTHM.

THIS SUMMER FRANKLY, WE FIND OURSELVES IN A DIFFICULT RHYTHM AND THAT WAS THE MONSOONAL STORM PATTERNS.

BECAUSE AS SOME FOLKS HAD MENTIONED, IT WASN'T SO MUCH POSITIVE RHYTHM, BUT IT WAS A BATTLE AGAINST MOTHER NATURE AND THAT'S AN UNDEFEATED OPPONENT.

JUST TRYING TO MITIGATE AGAINST THE DAMAGE THAT WAS CAUSED THIS SUMMER.

WITH THAT, JUST LIKE TO RECOGNIZE A FEW PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE, ERIN YOUNG IS HERE SERVING AS A WATER SERVICES DIRECTOR.

AT THE TIME HE WAS OUT THERE, BOOTS ON THE GROUND, LITERALLY HELPING OPEN UP MANHOLES AND CLEANING OUT STORM DRAINS, ETC.

SCOTT OVERTON IS OUR PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR CURRENTLY AND JUST FROM AN OPERATIONAL STANDPOINT, AGAIN BEGINNING I THINK IT'S ME.

UNFORTUNATELY, I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN A FEWER EMERGENCY RESPONSE EFFORTS AND SCOTT REALLY HAD WITH THE TEAM THE OPERATIONS DIALED TO AS BAD AS WELL AS I'VE SEEN AN OPERATIONAL TEAM OPERATE IN DISASTER RESPONSE.

[01:55:03]

SHANNON ANDERSON WAS ALWAYS THERE TO KEEP THE CALM AND FOR ME PERSONALLY ALWAYS SUCH A GREAT SOUNDING BOARD.

BECAUSE WHEN WE'RE BATTLING AN UNDEFEATED OPPONENT, SOMETIMES THAT CAN CREATE FRUSTRATIONS AND SO TO HAVE SOMEONE LIKE SHANNON IN THE ROOM WAS SUPER HELPFUL GREG CLIFTON AS WELL.

JUST IN TALKING THINGS THROUGH AND GREG WOULD BE HAVING HOME LATE FOR DINNER BECAUSE HE WAS OUT HELPING PEOPLE SHOVEL DEBRIS AND I'D CALL HIM, WE'D TALK THINGS THROUGH A LITTLE BIT.

JUST THANK EVERYONE FOR THAT.

MARK RICHARDSON, IT'S, "THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY IS CONTINUING TO DO THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND GET THE SAME RESULTS." THE RESULT WAS WE CLEANED OUT THE PIPES FOR THE NEXT FLOW, BUT AT SOME POINT IT STARTED TO DRIVE EVERYONE A LITTLE BIT CRAZY AND SO THANKS FOR KEEPING THE CALM.

[INAUDIBLE] OUR CITY ENGINEER AND HIS TEAM.

THERE WERE VARIOUS ENGINEERS OUT ON THE SCENE THAT HELPED AND ONE OF THOSE KEY PEOPLE WAS GARY MILLER WHO'S HERE.

HE WAS ESSENTIALLY LOANED, IF YOU WILL, BY THE CAPITAL GROUP.

THE PERFECT COMBINATION IS AN ENGINEER WITH A GOOD HEART AND WE STILL HAVE THOSE IN OUR ORGANIZATION AND SO THANK YOU FOR THAT.

THERE ARE A LOT OF ENGINEERS THAT WE HAVEN'T MENTIONED.

DOUG SLOVER'S HERE FROM STORMWATER AND HIS RUNNING MATE ED SCHENKER WHO WAS HIRED AS OUR STORMWATER MANAGER.

HE'S ACTUALLY ON, WHAT I BELIEVE, A MUCH NEEDED BREAK.

HE WAS 24/7 THIS SUMMER WITH OUR STORMWATER OPERATION AND SO WHEN HE ASKED IF HE COULD TAKE A LITTLE TIME, IT WAS HARD TO SAY NO.

THANKS GREG FOR PUTTING THIS TOGETHER.

OBVIOUSLY, SOME THINGS HAVE CHANGED SINCE IT WAS FIRST PUT ON THE AGENDA, SO WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN HERE IN A LITTLE BIT.

TO START, STORMWATER IN FLAGSTAFF: CURRENT PROJECTS AND FUTURE OPERATIONS.

THIS LOOKS LIKE A SOUTH SIDE EVENT HERE.

WITH STORMWATER, IT'S BEEN A TRIAL BY FIRE AND THEN THE SUBSEQUENT FLOODING.

NICOLE HAD TALKED ABOUT RESPONSE.

FROM A PUBLIC WORKS ORGANIZATION STANDPOINT, IT'S HARD NOT TO ALWAYS BE IN THAT RESPONSE MODE OR ANY EMERGENCY SERVICES.

CHIEF GAILLARD CAN SPEAK TO IT IN FIRE, CHIEF MUSSELMAN CAN SPEAK TO IT IN POLICE DEPARTMENT. ALWAYS RESPONDING.

HOW DO WE TAKE THE TIME TO CARVE OUT SOME TIME AWAY FROM THAT RESPONSE, TAKE A STEP BACK AND THINK ABOUT HOW DO WE STRUCTURE OURSELVES TO RESPOND BETTER? HOW DO WE STRUCTURE OURSELVES SO WE DON'T MAYBE WE'RE NOT REQUIRED TO RESPOND BECAUSE WE'RE MANAGING THE ISSUE A BIT DIFFERENTLY THAN JUST RESPONDING.

SUMMER OF 2021, A LOT OF REACT AND A LOT OF RESPONDING.

THIS NOW IS GIVING US AN OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE A STEP BACK.

CURRENT CAPITAL PROJECTS.

FROM THE FIVE-YEAR CAPITAL PLAN, WE FOCUSED ON THE RIO DE FLAG AND WE SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON THE RIO DE FLAG.

IN FACT, SUMMER 2021, WE SAW AN EVENT THAT IMPACTED THE RIO DE FLAG.

THEN THE SIDE LATERALS AND IMPROVEMENTS THAT CONNECT TO THE RIO DE FLAG.

AARON AND I WERE ABLE TO DO AN INTERVIEW WITH PETER BRUCE ON KAFF.

THEY ASKED A TOUGH QUESTION.

WHERE DOES THE WATER GO? THANK GOODNESS AARON WAS THERE.

BECAUSE ULTIMATELY, IT GOES TO LITTLE COLORADO RIVER.

ALL CONNECTED INTO YOUR POINT COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY, LET'S LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE AND ALL THE CONNECTIONS THEY WERE CONNECTED TO, ULTIMATELY THE LITTLE COLORADO RIVER.

SPOT IMPROVEMENTS, ANNUAL ALLOCATION, THAT'S DEDICATED TO THE ONGOING DRAINAGE ISSUES.

THROUGH THIS MUSEUM FIRE FLOODING EVENT, WE'VE CALLED THEM PINCH POINTS.

WHERE ARE THE PINCH POINTS AND HOW CAN WE MAKE THOSE SPOT IMPROVEMENTS TO TRY AND CORRECT THOSE PITCH POINTS? FUNDED THROUGH THE CURRENT STORMWATER RATE FEE, THAT WAS AMENDED IN 2019.

IT'S $3.74 PER ERU.

THIS IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN, BUT AN ERU CALCULATED BY 1,500 SQUARE FEET OF IMPERVIOUS SURFACE.

IMPERVIOUS SURFACE MEANING IT'S NOT ABSORBING.

WE HAVE A LOT OF IMPERVIOUS SURFACE AS CITIES ARE BUILT, WHETHER IT'S STRUCTURES OR PARKING LOTS, ETC.

ON RESIDENTIAL UNIT, THIS CAN BE ANYWHERE BETWEEN THIS AMOUNT BUT TO SAY, $12 OR $15 DEPENDING ON THE AMOUNT OF IMPERVIOUS SURFACE. COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY.

>> JUST A QUICK QUESTION.

COULD YOU REVIEW, IS THAT A CITY FEE OR DOES THAT GO TO THE COUNTY FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT? ARE THOSE TWO SEPARATE THINGS?

[02:00:01]

>> TWO SEPARATE THINGS. THIS IS A CITY STORMWATER FEE.

THE COUNTY FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT IS A SECONDARY PROPERTY TAX, WHICH IS ASSIGNED TO AN OWNER'S TAX BILL THAT IS PAID SEPARATELY.

>> THIS IS PAID THROUGH THE WATER, RIGHT?

>> YES.

>> THANK YOU.

>> TO CLARIFY, THIS IS ON YOUR UTILITY BILL MONTHLY.

OUR PROJECTS WERE IDENTIFIED.

WELL, THIS SEEMS A BIT DATED '07, '10 IN THE MASTER DRAINAGE STUDY THAT WAS CONDUCTED.

THE PINPOINTS ARE STILL THE SAME, THE ISSUES ARE STILL THE SAME.

WE HAVE HAD SOME ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT.

YOU-ALL KNOW BECAUSE YOU HEAR FROM DEVELOPERS, THE CITY'S ASKING FOR TOO MUCH IN STORMWATER MANAGEMENT OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE AND THIS IS THE REASON FOR THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE DRAINAGE ISSUES ARE MANAGED.

FY22, THE FISCAL YEAR THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY LIVING IN RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE THE PHOENIX AVENUE BRIDGE FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE BEEN ON THE SOUTH SIDE KNOW THAT THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, A MUCH NEEDED PROJECT.

THERE WAS A POTENTIAL FOR SOME SIGNIFICANT FAILURE.

THE BRIDGE STRUCTURE WAS IN JEOPARDY AND THE BUSES, AT SOME POINT, WERE NOT DRIVABLE OVER THE TOP OR A SNOWPLOW BECAUSE OF THE STRUCTURAL ISSUES.

LINDA VISTA CULVERT AT SPRUCE WASH THAT WAS COMPLETED IN 2020, THAT IS IN THE SPRUCE AVENUE WASH OF THE MUSEUM FIRE AND FLOOD AREA.

IT'S ONE OF THE EARLY STAGES AS THOSE FLOWS FROM THE BURN SCAR FLOW THROUGH THE CITY INFRASTRUCTURE.

THAT CULVERT WAS DOUBLED IN SIZE.

RIO DE FLAG LATERAL AT SANTA FE AVENUE, RIO DE FLAG LATERAL IN MALPAIS, THAT'S THE CLAY WASH WHICH IS RIGHT BACK HERE, IS THE BEGINNING OF THAT OR PROBABLY NOT THE BEGINNING, BUT A SEGMENT OF IT INTO THE CITY LIMITS.

COLUMBIA CIRCLE, WHICH WAS REPLACED WITH STEVE'S WASH AT SOLIERE AVENUE, THAT PROJECT HAS NOT BEEN COMPLETED, BUT WE DID SEE SOME CONCERNS WITH THAT AND WE GOT FLOWS ALL OVER THE COMMUNITY THIS SUMMER, AS YOU KNOW AND THERE WERE SOME FLOWS OF THIS SOLIERE AVENUE LOCATION.

THEN THE RIO DE FLAG LATERAL DOWNTOWN, WE APPLIED FOR A BRIC GRANT, WE WERE DENIED.

IT'S VERY COMPETITIVE GRANT CYCLE.

WE ACTUALLY HAVE THREE IN PROCESS RIGHT NOW IN WHICH GARY, DOUG, MYSELF [INAUDIBLE] IS PROBABLY ON THE CALL, ARE WORKING ON, STACY [INAUDIBLE] IS HELPING OUT REMOTELY.

THOSE APPLICATIONS ARE DUE TODAY.

WE'RE GETTING, I THINK, TWO OR THREE [INAUDIBLE] ON THAT.

THEY'RE HUGELY COMPETITIVE, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE'RE NOT GOING TO COMPETE.

AGAIN, WE'RE USED TO GO AGAINST AN UNDEFEATED OPPONENT IN MOTHER NATURE.

THEN THE FANNING WASH AT ROUTE 66.

I WANT TO SAY THE BUDGET'S ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR, 700 ROUGHLY PER CAPITAL, WHICH THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE FAMILIAR WITH CAPITAL PROJECTS KNOW THAT THAT'S NOT A LOT AND THEN THE REST FOR MAINTENANCE.

THE CAPITAL BUDGET 8.3 MILLION OR IF IT'S A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR, WHY 8.3? YOU HAVE TO SAVE TO SPEND FOR THESE LARGER PROJECTS AND SO THERE WAS A FUND BALANCE THAT WE WERE ABLE TO UTILIZE.

1.8 IN THE SPRUCE WASH, THE DORTHA CHANNEL IMPROVEMENTS, WHICH WE'RE HOPING TO BEGIN CONSTRUCTION THIS FALL.

THERE ARE A FEW THINGS WE NEED TO WORK THROUGH RIGHT NOW.

IT'S DESIGNED WITH A BOTTOM THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY A DESIRABLE CONCRETE.

WE'RE LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT'S A LITTLE MORE FRIENDLY.

KILLIP DETENTION BASIN-DESIGN.

THAT CURRENTLY, I DON'T REMEMBER THE AMOUNT IT'S BUDGETED, BUT THE BUDGET FOR THAT IS LOOKING TO BE ABOUT 4.6 MILLION.

I THINK THERE'S ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS BUDGET OR MAYBE A 800,000 THAT IS ON FUSD PROPERTY.

YOU MAY ALL REMEMBER THE SCHOOL FLOODED THIS SUMMER.

THE KIDS WERE IN THE SCHOOL, THEY COULDN'T GET OUT BECAUSE THERE WAS FLOODING ALL AROUND THEM, THEY SHELTERED IN PLACE.

IT WAS A VERY BAD SITUATION FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.

THEY'VE ABANDONED THAT SCHOOL, THEY'RE GOING TO TEAR IT DOWN.

WE'RE LOOKING AT A DETENTION BASIN THERE IN PARTNERSHIP WITH FUSD, AND THEN OVERALL CHANNEL IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SYSTEM.

I'LL TELL YOU A LOT OF THOSE IMPROVEMENTS, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU GET A [INAUDIBLE], THE GABION BASKETS THAT YOU PUT IN GET DESTROYED AND WE HAVE TO GO IN AND REFIX THEM.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF THAT CRAZINESS HAPPENING.

>> WHAT'S A GABION BASKET?

>> A GABION BASKET IS BASICALLY A WIRE BASKET WITH ROCKS IN IT THAT'S STABILIZED THROUGH STICKS INTO THE SIDEWALLS TO KEEP EROSION FROM HAPPENING.

ALTERNATIVE TO CONCRETE FOR SURE.

OTHER PROJECTS, THE PHOENIX BRIDGE AND THEN SPOT IMPROVEMENTS AND THEN NO FUNDING FOR OTHER WATERSHEDS.

THAT'S A KEY POINT BECAUSE WE DID GET SOME FLOODING,

[02:05:02]

AS YOU ALL KNOW, FROM UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS THIS SUMMER, THERE WAS PONDEROSA TRAILS.

WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE IT ON PONDEROSA TRAILS BECAUSE IT'S A "NEWER DEVELOPMENT." THAT DETENTION BASIN IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE PARK OR PONDEROSA TRAILS.

THAT SYSTEM FUNCTIONS PRETTY WELL AND SO THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE IN SOME OF THE OLDER ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOODS ON THE EAST SIDE.

THEY HAVE PONDEROSA TRAILS THAT FUNCTION LIKE IT WAS DESIGNED TO.

WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE NEED TO MAINTAIN IT PROPERLY.

FIRST TRUE MONSOON SEASON SINCE 2019.

>> [INAUDIBLE] HAS A QUESTION FOR YOU.

>> QUESTION REGARDING THE KILLIP DETENTION BASIN, HOW MUCH IS FUSD IS ASSISTING US AND ARE THEY [INAUDIBLE]?

>> THEY ARE PREPARED TO ASSIST, WE DO NOT KNOW THE LEVEL YET AND SO THAT'S THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION THAT WE NEED TO HAVE WITH THEM.

>> THANK YOU.

>> ONE DESIGN CONCEPT THAT THEY HAD NOTED, YOU'LL NOTE IN PHOENIX OR EVEN THE PONDEROSA TRAILS PARK SPACE IN CONJUNCTION WITH FLOOD CONTROL PROJECTS.

YOU SEE THAT A LOT IN PHOENIX.

IT'S A REALLY GREAT DESIGN CONCEPT THAT I THINK IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BUT WE HAVE TO WATCH THE WEATHER AND MAKE SURE WE'RE KEEPING PEOPLE OUT OF HARM'S WAY, A LOT OF PRACTICE FACTORS THAT WE WILL [INAUDIBLE].

THE FIRST TRUE MONSOON SEASON LAST TWO YEARS, WHAT WE CALL THE NONSOON, NICOLE WILL SPEAK TO THIS IN THE CLIMACTIC MODELS HERE IN A LITTLE BIT.

BUT I THINK WHAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING, AT LEAST IN THE THREE YEARS FROM THE MUSEUM FIRE, THE NONSOONS DO SOME VERY EXTREME EVENTS.

THOSE CLIMATE MODELS ARE STARTING TO TRUTH OUT.

I THINK WE CAN ARGUE THAT.

FOUR LARGE FLOOD EVENTS IN SUMMER OF 2021, AND WHEN WE SAY LARGE FLOOD EVENTS, I MEAN, 200, 300-YEAR EVENTS.

JUST A LOT OF RAIN IN A VERY SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME.

ONGOING THREAT EXISTS DOWNSTREAM OF THE BURN AREA, AND IT'S GOING TO BE A RAIN EVENT ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF MOUNT ELDEN THAT JUST SO HAPPEN TO OCCUR AT THE SAME TIME AS FOR BURN SCAR.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE SUGGESTING THAT THE MUSEUM SCAR WAS GREATER THAN WHAT WE HAD ANTICIPATED.

ESSENTIALLY TWO SEPARATE WATERSHEDS, TWO SEPARATE EVENTS, WE'VE MODELED THAT TO A REALLY GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF THOSE WATERSHEDS.

BUT THOSE EVENTS INCISED MOUNTAIN SLOPES AND CHANNELS, ALREADY INCISED.

FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT KNOW MOUNT ELDEN, A LOT OF YOU ARE HIKERS KNOW, THERE'S SOME DEEP CUTS IN MOUNT ELDEN.

WE HAD THE FIRE THAT OCCURRED IN THE LATE '70S, THE RADIO FIRE THAT A LOT OF FOLKS STILL TALK ABOUT PROBABLY IMPACTED COUPLE WATERSHED.

DEVELOPMENT WAS DIFFERENT IN 1979 THAN IT IS TODAY AND SO WHEN WE SAY, THOSE CHANNELS INCISED, THEY GET STEEPER AND DEEPER AND THOSE WATERS FLOW.

[NOISE] CLIMATE CHANGE IN FLAGSTAFF, NICOLE.

>> GREAT. THANK YOU, ANDY.

[INAUDIBLE] SUSTAINABILITY DIRECTOR, I'D LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT TO CENTER THE STORMWATER INFRASTRUCTURE CONVERSATION WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND FLAGSTAFF CLIMATIC OUTLOOK.

INFRASTRUCTURE IS COMMONLY DEFINED AS THE VARIOUS COMPONENTS OF THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT THAT SUPPORTS OUR MODERN-DAY SOCIETY AND THESE ENCOMPASS UTILITIES, TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS, COMMUNICATION NETWORKS, WATER SYSTEMS AND OTHER ELEMENTS.

THESE ARE CRITICAL UNDERPINNINGS OF CIVILIZATION IN OUR FLAGSTAFF COMMUNITY.

EVEN MODEST DISRUPTIONS TO INFRASTRUCTURE CAN HAVE SIGNIFICANT EFFECTS ON DAILY LIFE AND ANY SYSTEMATIC CHANGE IN THE FREQUENCY OR INTENSITY OF THOSE DISRUPTIONS WILL HAVE PROFOUND CONSEQUENCES ON OUR ECONOMIC AND HUMAN WELL-BEING.

CENTERING OUR ATTENTION JUST ON STORMWATER INFRASTRUCTURE, JUST AS A BACKGROUND INFORMATION.

AS I WAS DOING RESEARCH, I THOUGHT THIS WAS INCREDIBLY HELPFUL THAT IT IS TYPICALLY DESIGNED TO CONVEY OR CAPTURE RUNOFF FLOWS ASSOCIATED WITH A DESIGN STORM.

WITH THAT, THE MAGNITUDE IS BASED ON A PROBABILITY OF DISTRIBUTION OVER OBSERVED HISTORIC RAINFALL EVENTS.

ONE OF THE UNDERLYING ASSUMPTIONS OF THE STANDARD DESIGN APPROACH IS THAT THE RAINFALL PROBABILITY DISTRIBUTION IS STATIC.

I'LL LET YOU SIT WITH THAT FOR A SECOND, THAT WAS A MOUTHFUL.

WE CAN NO LONGER RELY ON HISTORIC STORM EVENTS FOR DESIGNER MAINTENANCE.

WE MUST ADOPT A HOLISTIC APPROACH THAT INCORPORATES CLIMATIC IMPACTS.

ON THIS PAST TUESDAY, CITY COUNCIL HEARD FROM NAU'S CLIMATE SCIENCE AND SOLUTIONS GRADUATE CLASS AND THEY DID A FINE JOB RECAPPING OUR WORK WITH THE CLIMATE ASSESSMENT FOR THE SOUTHWEST OUT OF

[02:10:04]

ASU TO DEVELOP FLAGSTAFF CLIMATE PROFILE AND OUR VULNERABILITY ASSESSMENT.

THESE SLIDES THAT I HAVE BEFORE YOU, THIS SLIDE AND THE NEXT ONE ARE SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU SAW ON TUESDAY EVENING.

FLAGSTAFF IS FACING A WIDE VARIETY OF CLIMATE HAZARDS THAT ARE NOT ONLY BEING FELT TODAY, BUT WILL [NOISE] IMPACT EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE IN THE COMING DECADES.

FLAGSTAFF RESIDENTS ARE ALL TOO AWARE OF THE HAZARDS ASSOCIATED WITH WARMER TEMPERATURES, MORE SEVERE DROUGHT, INCREASED WILDFIRE RISK, CHANGES IN PRECIPITATION, AND MORE INTENSE WEATHER EVENTS, AS WELL AS MORE EXTREME FLOODING.

THE LATTER HAS BEEN EXACERBATING EXISTING AND CREATING NEW, URGENT AND LONG-TERM PROBLEMS. THESE ARE NOT ISOLATED EVENTS, COUNCIL.

WE WILL CONTINUE TO EXPERIENCE THEM AT AN ACCELERATED RATE.

THESE EVENTS WILL IMPACT EVERY ASPECT OF OUR COMMUNITY, NOT ONLY ON WATER BUT ON LAND USE, HOUSING, OUR ECONOMY, OUR PUBLIC HEALTH, AND IT WILL PLACE SIGNIFICANT STRESS ON OUR INFRASTRUCTURE.

WE MAY HAVE EXCITING THINGS.

WE ARE CONFRONTING UNPRECEDENTED CLIMATIC CHANGES AND WHILE WE ARE RACING TO ADDRESS THEM, WE DO KNOW WHERE OUR VULNERABILITIES LIE, AS WELL AS THE LEVEL OF THOSE VULNERABILITIES.

AS YOU HEARD AGAIN ON TUESDAY EVENING, AS A CITY WE ARE HIGHLY VULNERABLE TO REDUCE WATER AVAILABILITY AND INCREASE DEMAND.

WE ARE MODERATELY VULNERABLE TO IMPAIRED WATER QUALITY AS A RESULT OF THE INCREASED FIRE, DROUGHT, AND FLOODING.

OUR INFRASTRUCTURE IS HIGHLY VULNERABLE TO THE IMPACTS OF WILDFIRE AND FLOODING.

INTEGRATING DIVERSE ADAPTATION MEASURES WILL BE REQUIRED TO REALIZE THAT TRANSFORMATION NEEDED TO BUILD RESILIENCE TO CLIMATE CHANGE AND PROTECT OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, COMMUNITY, AND WELL-BEING.

THAT TRANSFORMATION SHOULD SYSTEMATICALLY INTEGRATE THREE TYPES OF SOLUTIONS BASED ON TECHNOLOGY, NATURE, AND OUR COMMUNITY NEEDS.

THE INVITATION IS TO KEEP THIS IN MIND AS WE WALK THROUGH THE REST OF THE CONVERSATION TO TAKE A HOLISTIC APPROACH IN HOW WE'RE TACKLING ADDRESSING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS. THANK YOU.

>> I CAN SPEAK FROM A RESPONSE STANDPOINT IN PUBLIC WORKS.

IT'S POSSIBLE FOR SNOW REMOVAL, BUT STILL MANAGEMENT AND YOU HIT THE DRY SPELLS, DOESN'T SNOW, AND THEN WHEN IT DOES THE EVENTS PRETTY EXTREME AND WE WERE TRACKING THAT DATA.

SO YOU FIND YOURSELF OPEN THAT FROM THAT RESPONSE STANDPOINT, LETTING YOUR GUARD DOWN.

THAT'S WHAT'S CHANGED A LOT THIS YEAR, THE MUSEUM FIRE HAPPENED IN 2019.

WE IMMEDIATELY WENT AN ACTION BEFORE THE FIRE WAS EVEN OUT, WE NEED TO PROTECT AGAINST THIS AND PRACTICE THROUGH SEVEN WATERSHED.

WE NEED TO PROTECT AGAINST THAT.

DIDN'T HAPPEN. SO WE ALL STARTED TO QUESTION THE MEASURES THAT WERE PUT IN PLACE, THE RESIDENTS QUESTIONS AND I KNOW WE DID FROM A RESPONSE STANDPOINT, AND PREPARING FOR A DISASTER TO HAPPEN, WE LET OUR GUARD DOWN A LITTLE BIT IN THAT WAITING FOR IT TO HAPPEN AT A BIN.

THEN IT DID AND THEN IT WAS SIGNIFICANTLY OR SNOW BANKS HAVE BEEN SIMILAR.

I THINK THAT WOULD TRIP OUT TO WHEN IT'S CAUGHT.

HOW ARE WE PREPARING OURSELVES AND OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AND THEN US HUMANS LIVING HERE.

THERE'S A MENTAL HEALTH COMPONENT AS WELL.

I KNOW I CAN PERSONALLY SPEAK TO IT BASED ON SOME OF THE SUMMER'S ACTIVITIES AND WORKING AGAINST AN UNDEFEATED OPPONENT.

>> STILL CONTINUE IN YOUR RESPONSE.

WE HAVE SOME OPTIONS.

HOW DO WE RESPOND TO CHANGE? WELL, WE PUT TOGETHER SOME OPTIONS.

WE CAN CONTINUE THE ANNUAL RESPONSE, DO THE SAME THING WE'VE DONE THIS YEAR.

IT MAY OR MAY NOT RAIN TO THE LEVEL THAT IT HAS RAINED THIS YEAR.

IT'S ABOUT $0.8 MILLION IN RESPONSE OVER 10 YEARS, SIMPLE MATH $18 MILLION.

THIS NUMBER DOES NOT INCLUDE THE DAMAGED HOMES.

I THINK THAT WAS ABOUT $4.4 MILLION IN PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE DAMAGE TO HOMES NOT INCLUDED, AND JUST THE GENERAL OVERALL LIVING CONDITIONS OF OUR COMMUNITY LESS THAN NORMAL STANDARD LIFE FOR THOSE FOLKS IMPACTED.

OUR OPTION TWO, $12-18 MILLION, THE NEXT SLIDE IS GOING TO GO OVER SOME SPECIFIC PROJECTS.

BUT THAT'S TO IMPROVE THE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE OR THE EXISTING FOOTPRINT TO MITIGATE THESE FLOODS.

WE'RE VERY CAREFUL TO SAY IT'S NOT GOING TO SOLVE.

[02:15:02]

WE CAN'T DESIGN TO THE 100-YEAR POST FIRE BURNS SCAR.

THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS DESIGNED TO THE 100-YEAR NONFIRE, RIGHT? THIS BURN SCAR IS PRODUCING FLOWS 6-10 TIMES GREATER THAN WHAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED IF THE FIRST SCAR WASN'T THERE.

THEN OPTION THREE, NEW STORMWATER INFRASTRUCTURE, ADDITIONAL PIPING, THAT'S ESTIMATED AGAIN, BIG RANGE $10-30 MILLION.

AS YOU'RE STILL IN A PREVIOUS SLIDE, THIS WOULD ESSENTIALLY WORK IN CONJUNCTION WITH TWO.

IN ORDER TO DO 3, 2 WOULD HAVE TO BE AN OPTION THAT'S CHOSEN.

ANY QUESTIONS? THE OPTION ONE CONTINUALLY ANNUAL RESPONSE.

I HAVE SAID ACTUAL COSTS MAY BE SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER, THEY MAY BE LOWER.

BUT AGAIN, IT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE COST OF PRIVATE PROPERTY DAMAGE, $4.4 MILLION IN PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE COSTS.

FOR EXAMPLE, EVEN IN SOME OF THE AREAS, WE IMPROVE OUR ROADWAY THAT GOT WASHED OUT AND THEN THE NEXT STORM, BUT WE WASHED IT OUT AGAIN.

THEN THE RESPONSE TO US ABOUT $1.8 MILLION A YEAR.

OPTION TWO, WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL ON THE NEXT SLIDE.

THAT'S ADDING ENHANCEMENTS TO EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE, INCREASING FLOW PASSIVELY THROUGH THE CITY, AND THEN MINOR ADJUSTMENTS TO THE STORMWATER FOOTPRINT.

UPSTREAM CHANNEL DETENTION AND RETENTION PROJECTS MUST OCCUR TO ATTENUATE FLOWS TO THE CITY'S DESIGN FLOW CAPACITY.

ATTENUATE FLOWS WITH DESIGN BEING, WE'RE USING THAT TERM A LOT.

WE BETTER KNOW WHAT IT MEANS.

ATTEMPTING TO MANAGE THE SEDIMENT UPSTREAM ON THE FOREST BEFORE IT ENTERS THE CITY, THAT SEDIMENT LOADS UP THE FLOWS, INCREASES VELOCITY, INCREASES THE DAMAGE THAT CAN OCCUR TO OUR COMMUNITY.

SO UPSTREAM WORK IS SO HUGELY IMPORTANT, A LOT OF COMPLICATIONS, BUT THAT WOULD REQUIRE PERMISSION BY THE NATIONAL FOREST SERVICE, WHICH AS YOU ALL KNOW, IT'S NO EASY TASK, AND THEN WHERE DOES THE FUNDING COME TO BE ABLE TO VIEW THAT? IF THEY ARE FUNDS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, CAN WE USE THOSE FUNDS ON FEDERAL LAND? FOR OPTION TWO, HERE'S A LISTING. YES. [OVERLAPPING]

>> SO I GUESS IT COMES EVER HAPPENED HAD A QUESTION.

>> YES. I DON'T MEAN THIS QUESTION TO COME ACROSS THE WAY WELL, BUT I THINK IT'S WORTH JUST SITTING WITH.

IF WE GO WITH OPTION TWO, FOR EXAMPLE, IS IT GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM?

>> I'LL ANSWER THAT IN THE LONG VERSION OF THE ANSWER.

>> I'M THINKING IN THE PERSPECTIVE OF RESIDENTS.

>> YEAH, WE'VE NOTICED COUNCIL MEMORIZING THAT THE SOLUTION.

IT'S NOT A SOLUTION, IT'S A MITIGATION MEASURE.

FOR EXAMPLE, ON AUGUST 17TH AND THE FLOWS BEFORE THAT, IT'S BEEN CALCULATED THAT THOSE FLOWS WERE EXPERIENCING IN THOSE MAJOR EVENTS ARE BETWEEN 1,200 AND 1,800 CUBIC FEET PER SECOND, AS MEASURED RUDIMENTARILY.

I REALLY GET CAUGHT IN THOSE FLOWS, WE WOULDN'T MAKE IT.

IT'S SIGNIFICANT. WE'VE EXPERIENCED THAT.

WHAT WE CAN DO IN THE SPRUCE CHANNEL WITH SOME OF THESE DESIGNING SOME OF THESE PROJECTS THAT WE'VE NOTED, WE'RE LOOKING TO MANAGE ABOUT 650 CUBIC FEET PER SECOND.

I WILL SAY THAT A STORM DRAIN SYSTEM THAT'S WELL-MAINTAINED IS BETTER THAN NO SYSTEM AT ALL.

BUT IF IT'S NOT SOLVED, WE CANNOT DESIGN TO A 100-YEAR EVENT ON THAT BURN SCAR WITHIN THE SYSTEM THAT'S IN PLACE.

>> I CAN JUST IMAGINE A SCENARIO WHERE WE DO ALL OF THIS, WE SPEND ALL THIS MONEY, AND THE NEXT FLOOD COMES THROUGH AND WE GET THE SAME USUAL RESULT.

>> THE PROBABILITY OF THAT HAPPENING STILL EXIST.

>> YEAH.

>> YEAH.

>> REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS FOR THE REPUBLIC NEED TO COINCIDE WITH ALL OF THIS UNIVERSAL IMPROVEMENT.

>> WE HAD THAT CONVERSATION LAST NIGHT AT THE COMMUNITY MEETING, IT'S A TOUGH CONVERSATION TO HAVE.

I CERTAINLY DON'T LOOK AT YOUR DELIVERY IN OUR MESSAGE.

>> CONSIDERATION. [OVERLAPPING].

>> THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO ADD IT COULD RISE TO A FOREST FIRE.

IT'S LIKE OUR MITIGATION FACTORS TO PREVENT A FIRE BUT THEY'RE GOING TO LESSEN THE IMPACT, RIGHT? SO IT'S THE SAME IDEA, BUT I HEAR HOW THAT'S A HARD PILL TO SWALLOW ABOUT BY THE PUBLIC NEEDED BY ASSETS.

WE'VE BEEN FOLDED WITH THIS. BUT I GUESS THAT'S WHERE MY MIND GOES, JUST WANTED TO SHARE THAT.

>> IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE, BUT I'M DOING A FILM.

JUST SETTLING TO [OVERLAPPING] BE PRESENT.

>> FOREST FIRE CONVERSATION ON GETTING OUT OF MY REAL A LITTLE BIT. THAT'S OKAY.

[02:20:02]

I KNOW WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO TALK ABOUT IT BUT ALSO I WAS SUPPOSED WITH THE COUNTY DURING SCHULTZ AND THAT WAS A NON-TREATED FORESTED AREA, 15,000 ACRES OF HIGH SEVERITY BURN.

COMPARE THAT EXPERIENCE TO THE MUSEUM FIRE THAT WAS A TREATED WATERSHED, IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

TREATED WATERSHED MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

FOR MANY REPORTS POST-HOC OF FLOODING AND FROM A COMMUNITY PROTECTION PERSPECTIVE.

IF YOU ADD ALL THESE NUMBERS UP, I THINK YOU'LL GET 12 POINT SOMETHING.

AGAIN, SPRUCE CHANNEL MASTER PLANNING DEVELOPMENT TO BE DETERMINED; CURRENTLY WORKING WITH A GROUP OF ENGINEERS ON THAT, AND IT COULD BE A PARTNERSHIP EFFORT.

THESE COSTS DO NOT INCLUDE ANY PARTNERSHIPS UNDER FOREST SERVICE OR THE FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT.

AARON WAS ABLE TO MEET WITH SOME FOREST SERVICE REPRESENTATIVES EARLIER THIS WEEK ABOUT THAT WATERSHED.

JUST DISCUSSIONS RIGHT NOW.

I KNOW THE COMMUNITY WANTS TO HEAR DEFINITIVE PLANS.

WE DON'T HAVE THEM, BUT THOSE DISCUSSIONS CAN LEAD TO SOMETHING POSITIVE, WE HOPE.

FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT WITH THE COUNTY.

I DO HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE WITH THE FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT, PARTICULARLY DURING SCHULTZ AND WAS HELPING TO MANAGE THAT.

THEY'RE AT THE TABLE AND THE RESPONSE EFFORTS, IT WAS VERY BENEFICIAL TO HAVE THEM AT THE TABLE.

NOTING ALL OF OUR PERSONALITIES SOMETIMES GOT IN THE WAY AND WE WERE ALL TIRED.

BUT THE COMMUNITY EFFORT WAS THERE.

SO WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO FUTURE DISCUSSIONS WITH THEM.

BUT AGAIN, PARADISE CHANNEL IMPROVEMENT.

IT IS WHERE FROM THE WATERSHED THOSE FLOWS ENTER OUR CITY INFRASTRUCTURE.

THEN WE FOLLOW IT DOWN PARK WAY AREAS, DETENTION, RETENTION.

THERE'S AN AREA OF CITY PROPERTY THAT WE MAY BE ABLE TO DO SOME DETENTION, RETENTION ON, WHERE IT CAN BE HELPFUL.

THEN WE VISITED ALL OF OUR IMPROVEMENTS [OVERLAPPING]

>> COUNSEL MEMBER STERLING. YOU KEEP GOING DOWN [INAUDIBLE] BECAUSE I HAVE A GENERAL QUESTION.

>> LET ME LIST THE CULVERT IMPROVEMENT.

YOU'RE GOING TO SAY, WE ALREADY DONE THAT.

WELL, WE DOUBLED THE SIZE.

WE NEED TO DOUBLE IT AGAIN.

SO IT'S AT 300 CFS, WE NEED TO DOUBLE IT TO AT LEAST 600, A LITTLE MORE IF WE CAN, FOLLOWED IT DOWN, SEE THE CULVERT, THAT'S A BOX CULVERT.

BOX CULVERTS ARE EXPENSIVE, SO WE PLUGGED IN A MILLION DOLLARS THERE, AND THEN WE [INAUDIBLE] IMPROVEMENT THAT'S [INAUDIBLE].

YOU'VE HEARD A LOT ABOUT THAT PROJECT.

WE HAVE THE CHANNEL AND THEN THE INLET AS AN ADDITION TO THAT PROJECT.

DOUG AND I HAVE BEEN WORKING TOGETHER ALL WEEK CONVERSATION WITH GREG ON HOW THAT DESIGN CAN WORK AND DO WE HAVE CONTRACTORS LINED UP TO DO IT.

WORKING WITH RICK AND GARY AND TEAM.

WE'RE FEELING LIKE WE CAN ACCOMPLISH SOMETHING THERE TO WORK ON WHAT WE CALL ONE OF THOSE PINCH POINTS.

YOU'LL NOTICE ON DORTHA, THERE ARE CURRENTLY BARRIERS ACROSS THE ROAD.

THAT'S A DIFFICULT SITUATION FOR THE COMMUNITY.

ARROYO SECO DIVERSION, THAT'S A TOWNHOME DEVELOPMENT THAT GETS HIT PRETTY HARD FRANKLY AS THE FLOWS WORK THEIR WAY DOWNSTREAM.

AB HAGEN IS HERE, OUR PARKS MANAGER, AND I'M GUESSING REBECCA IS ON THE PHONE.

WE HAVE QUITE A FEW FLOWS.

WE WERE THERE LAST NIGHT, AND HAVE GONE THROUGH PONDEROSA PARK.

THAT PARK WAS COMPLETELY RENOVATED MULTIPLE TIMES OVER THE SUMMER.

IT'S A PARK THAT WE RECENTLY MADE IMPROVEMENTS TOO WITHIN THE BASKETBALL COURTS.

WE WERE THERE LAST NIGHT AND THEY LOOKED REALLY GOOD.

GREAT PHOENIX SUNS [INAUDIBLE] PROJECT.

BUT ULTIMATELY THOSE FLOWS END UP AT KILLIP SCHOOL DETENTION BASIN AS YOU'RE WORKING YOUR WAY THROUGH THE INFRASTRUCTURE.

THEN ULTIMATELY THE BOX AT ROUTE 66 [INAUDIBLE] BUT WE'RE COMING UP WITH A PLAN TO WORK IT THROUGH OUR CITY INFRASTRUCTURE.

NOW THAT'S THE MOST DIFFICULT ONES.

>> [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGHTER]. SO IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT, WE'RE LOOKING AT 12-8 MILLION.

ARE THESE THE HARD COSTS OF CITY PROJECTS THAT WE CAN LEVERAGE IN COORDINATION WITH THE FOREST SERVICE AND THE FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT, AND POTENTIALLY APPLYING FOR STATE AND FEDERAL GRANTS?

>> TAKE ANY FUNDS THAT WE, THE CITY, WERE ABLE TO PUT FORWARD.

IF WE CAN LEVERAGE THOSE FUNDS, THAT WOULD BE BEST-CASE SCENARIO FROM A FINANCIAL STANDPOINT.

[02:25:01]

>> SO WE'RE LOOKING AT A MINIMUM OF 12 AND A MAXIMUM OF 18 MILLION [OVERLAPPING]

>> YES.

>> CITY FUNDS?

>> CITY FUNDS AND CONVERSATIONS WITH THE FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT WHERE THE FLOWS, THE INNER CITY INFRASTRUCTURE OF PARADISE.

THE FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT WORKING ON PLANES ABOVE THAT.

A LOT OF [INAUDIBLE] ARE WILLING TO CONTRIBUTE FINANCIALLY.

WE DON'T HAVE HARD NUMBERS ON THAT.

BUT IN CONVERSATIONS COULD BE ABLE TO DO SOME WORK ON THE FOREST TO MITIGATE AS MUCH AS WE CAN PRIOR TO IT GETTING TO CIVILIZATION.

>> ATTENUATION.

>> ATTENUATION. [NOISE]

>> QUESTION. IF FUNDS ARE LIMITED, WITH THIS, WE'RE GOING TO WANT TO GO INTO BASIC REVERSE ORDER.

SO WE WOULD START WITH KILLIP SCHOOL DETENTION BASIN, [INAUDIBLE]; IS THAT CORRECT?

>> I THINK RICK AND GARY AND OTHERS WITH THE TECHNICAL REGISTRIES WOULD SAY THE BEST WAY TO GO ABOUT IT IS WORK FROM DOWNSTREAM UP, RIGHT DOUG?

>> YES.

>> THANK YOU. THEY'RE NOT IN KICKING DISTANCE.

I KNOW THEY WOULD IF THEY WERE CLOSE TO ME.

FOR OTHER REASONS, NOT JUST THIS [LAUGHTER].

OPTION 3 NEW CITY INFRASTRUCTURE.

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS ENGINEERING SUMMIT.

I THINK THE RESIDENTS WANTED TO SAY, OKAY, YOU HAVE THE SUMMIT SMART PEOPLE, NOW WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? WELL, HERE'S SOME IDEAS.

THIS WAS AN IDEA, WORKING IN TANDEM WITH OPTION 2 OF SOME LEVEL OF DIVERSION AROUND THE AREA.

BUT WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE GETTING IT TO A PLACE THAT'S SAFE BECAUSE THERE'S THIS THING CALLED ADVERSE DOWNSTREAM IMPACTS, AND FROM A RISK MANAGEMENT STANDPOINT, WE ALWAYS HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT.

LEGAL FINANCIAL RISK MANAGEMENT, TECHNICALLY, CAN IT WORK? ALL OF THOSE FACTORS ARE A DECISION MATRIX THAT WE HAVE TO CONSIDER.

THAT WOULD BE GREAT. WE GET A LOT OF CITIZEN COMMENTS.

CAN'T WE JUST BUILD A WALL AROUND? OR CAN'T YOU JUST DIVERT A MODE? THAT WOULD BE GOOD? I WISH WE COULD. [INAUDIBLE] YEAH.

WHATEVER YOU WANT TO SAY, I WISH WE COULD.

THIS IS JUST AN IDEA OF WORKING OUTSIDE OF THE FLOOD AREA USING OTHER AREAS OF OUR CITY INFRASTRUCTURE TO HELP MANAGE THE FLOWS.

ANY TIME YOU START PUTTING PIPES UNDERGROUND, YOUR COST STARTS TO GO UP TREMENDOUSLY.

REVEALING THE OPTIONS 1 AND 2, WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME [INAUDIBLE] WE CONTINUE TO RESPOND.

DEFINITION OF INSANITY.

WE'LL KEEP DOING THAT AND WE'RE SUPPORTING ONE ANOTHER IN THAT EFFORT.

EVEN WITH OPTION 2, THERE MAY BE STILL SOME RESPONSE EFFORTS AS COUNSEL MEMBER [INAUDIBLE] HAD NOTED.

BUT WE'RE HOPING TO MITIGATE AGAINST SOME OF THOSE IN A NORMAL RAIN EVENT.

THOSE MAJOR EVENTS WHICH WE EXPERIENCE FOR THIS YEAR ARE SIGNIFICANT AND SO WE RESPONDED THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY, UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS, BUNKERS, THE TRAILS.

[INAUDIBLE] THE FLOOD, WE ACTUALLY IN THE COUNTY LOST OR SEVERELY DAMAGED A COUPLE OF HOMES IN THAT WATERSHED.

THEN THE NEW STORMWATER INFRASTRUCTURE. ANY QUESTIONS? [NOISE] NOW WE HAVE THE MUSEUM.

NOW, WE'RE GOING TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE MT.

ELDEN DRAINAGE ISSUES, [INAUDIBLE] [OVERLAPPING].

>> I HAVE A QUESTION, ANDY.

>> YES.

>> I'M NOT ENTIRELY CERTAIN ON THIS SO I BETTER JUST ASK.

IS OPTION 3 $10-$30 MILLION, IN ADDITION TO OPTION 2? [INAUDIBLE]

>> YES IT IS.

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> PART OF THAT, COUNSEL MEMBER [INAUDIBLE], IS FOR OPTION 2 DOESN'T "SOLVE THE ISSUE", OPTION 3 CAN WORK FURTHER TOWARDS MANAGING THOSE LARGER-SCALE EVENTS.

>> WE HAVE THAT ALL UP. WE'RE ACTUALLY TALKING BETWEEN 22 AND 48 MILLION.

>> SO IT'S A BIG NUMBER.

THE STORMWATER FEE COLLECTS ABOUT $1 MILLION A YEAR. DO I HAVE THAT RIGHT, RICK?

>> YEAH, AND FOUR AND A HALF.

>> YEAH.

>> TOTAL OR [INAUDIBLE] WHAT WAS THAT AGAIN, RICK?

>> 4.3 MILLION.

>> OKAY. SO THE RIO AND THEN IT'S ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS FOR THIS STORMWATER PROGRAM A YEAR?

>> YES.

>> OKAY. [NOISE]

>> NOW, WE MADE A MISTAKE HERE.

THE FLOODING CAUSED GREATER DAMAGE OF THESE NEIGHBORHOODS THAN THE 2021 MUSEUM FIRE SCAR.

SOCIAL MEDIA RECORDED CARS FLOATING DOWNSTREAM.

[02:30:02]

WE'VE ALL BEEN THERE.

HOWEVER, MADE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF HITS ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

A COUPLE OF FACTORS AT PLAY.

ONE, WE WERE PREPARING AGAINST THE MUSEUM FIRE BURN SCAR, STARTED IN 2019.

WE BELIEVE A LOT OF THOSE MITIGATION MEASURES PUT IN PLACE PROTECTED HOMES FROM BEING DESTROYED.

THIS AREA WAS DESIGNED TO THE 100-YEAR STORM EVENT TO THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF.

WE HAD AN EVENT THAT FIRE EXCEEDED 100-YEAR, OR SAY THE 200-YEAR EVENT.

I REMEMBER TALKING TO GREG WHEN IT WAS HAPPENING, AND HE'S LIKE, I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT.

IT WAS THREE INCHES OF RAIN IN AN HOUR, I DON'T REMEMBER, BUT JUST AN EXTREME AMOUNT OF RAIN IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

WE MODELED IT. WE HAVE OUR CITY CIVILIZATION, WE'RE LIVING WITH A MOUNTAIN.

WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THOSE CHANNELS, GETTING FURTHER IN SIZE, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

HERE ARE ALL THE WASHES CHANNELS THAT FEED INTO OUR CITY OF FLAGSTAFF INFRASTRUCTURE.

IN SOME CASES, SOME OF THOSE CHANNELS GOT FURTHER IN SIZE.

THERE'S A PIPELINE HERE, THE DETENTION BASIN ON PIPELINE PROPERTY, [INAUDIBLE], I THINK IT'S 7-10 ACRES, ABOUT SEVEN ACRES.

WE HAD WOODSON ENGINEERING LOOK AT IT AND SAY, OKAY, IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO A DETENTION BASIN, IT'S ABOUT $2.9 MILLION.

THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL, PARTICULARLY, IN CONJUNCTION WITH CHANNEL DIVERSION ON THE PIPELINE PROPERTY.

THAT WOULD HELP MITIGATE FLOODING ON APPALACHIAN AS WELL AS MONTE VISTA, AND THEN THE FANNING WASH IMPROVEMENTS WERE ABOUT $2 MILLION.

YOU'LL SEE HERE THE DAMAGE THAT WAS CAUSED TO THOSE WASHERS.

THIS IS AT THE END OF APPALACHIAN.

THIS CHANNEL, THIS IS PARADISE SPREE 70 WASH APPALACHIAN HERE, AND IT WAS A SIGNIFICANT FLOOD EVENT.

FORTH STREET IS FLOWING WITH THE MUSEUM FIRE FLOOD EVENT AND THE SIGNIFICANT EVENT CREEPING OVER FROM [INAUDIBLE] AND FORTH STREET BECOMES INUNDATED IN THOSE MUSEUMS EVENTS AS WELL.

THEN WITH THE MOUNT ELDEN EVENT, IT WAS THE ENTIRE EAST SIDE MOVING.

TALKING ABOUT THOSE WITH THE MOUNT ELDEN DRAINAGE, 5 OR 6 MILLION, [INAUDIBLE] TALKS ON HER THOUSANDS FOR PROJECTS, WE DO THE SPOT IMPROVEMENTS FOR CONNECTORS TO REAPPLY.

OUR MAINTENANCE BUDGET IS APPROXIMATELY 300,000 BETWEEN OPEN CHANNEL AND CLOSED SYSTEM.

I'LL SAY MAINTENANCE WAS CONDUCTED AT ONE POINT BY PUBLIC WORKS, AND QUITE FRANKLY, WE WEREN'T DOING AS GOOD A JOB AS WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN, JUST RESOURCE ISSUES, ETC.

WATER SERVICES WAS ABLE TO GET THE BACK TRUCK AND OTHER RESOURCES NECESSARY, AND SO MARK [INAUDIBLE] HAS DONE A REALLY GOOD JOB OF INCORPORATING THAT INTO A WORK PROGRAM.

STORM DRAIN MAINTENANCE, AGAIN, IT'S SUPER EASY TO LET YOUR GUARD DOWN, BUT A SYSTEM THAT'S IN PLACE, THAT'S WELL-MAINTAINED IS BETTER THAN NO SYSTEM AT ALL, AND SO WE'RE DIALING IN THAT MAINTENANCE PIECE.

ADDITIONAL FUNDING NEEDS, THE OPTION 1 AND 2 IS 18 MILLION.

THAT'S WHAT THE PROJECT SAYS, LISTED OR DOING NOTHING, STILL WE CAN ACCUMULATE SIGNIFICANT COSTS OVER TIME.

MOUNT EDEN MITIGATION, 6 MILLION.

THEN, IF WE COULD ADD SOME FUNDS TO MAINTENANCE, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.

THEN THE LONGER-TERM MUSEUM FIRE FUNDING IS AN OPTION 3, A BIG RANGE,10-30 ESTIMATE.

ANY QUESTIONS?

>> CAN WE GO BACK TO THE JOB? THE LARGE AREA OVER TO THE RIGHT ON THE FAR EAST SIDE, FURTHER EAST, ALL THE WAY EAST, THAT LOOKS LIKE A REALLY HEAVILY IMPACTED AREA.

>> A DESIGN AREA?

[02:35:01]

>> YES.

>> DOUG, CAN YOU HELP ME OUT?

>> YEAH. THAT'S THE AREA THE DRAIN [OVERLAPPING] I ACTUALLY GOT TO LOOK AT IT.

>> IT ALMOST WRITTEN THE STREET NAME RIGHT HERE.

>> THAT'S [INAUDIBLE] DEVELOPMENT BEHIND COUNTRY CLUB, T INTO THE HIGHWAY.

WHEREAS THIS LITTLE SPOT IS 166 WHERE IT CONNECTS TO 89, SO COUNTRY CLUB WOULD RIGHT THERE.

THAT'S THE REGIONAL DETENTION FACILITY.

THE FLOOD DOESN'T STOP AT THE END OF THE BLUE LINE, THAT'S JUST WHERE THE [INAUDIBLE] STOPPED.

>> EVENTUALLY, THAT GETS THE REGIONAL DETENTION FACILITY NEAR HISTORY CLUB?

>> YEAH. THAT'S THE SAME WATER [INAUDIBLE].

IT ALL COMBINES BACK TOGETHER FURTHER DOWNSTREAM, IT'S THE FANNING WASH WATERSHED.

>> COUNSEL MICHELIN.

>> ANY QUESTIONS? IF THERE AREN'T, WE'RE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD TO BINARY OPTIONS 2 OR 3, ALL WOULD BE THE FIRST [INAUDIBLE] DEVELOPS.

>> RIGHT NOW, I WOULD SAY, WHERE WE'RE DEVELOPING THE MOST PROGRESS IS THIS DETENTION BASIN AND THEN WE [INAUDIBLE] I THINK IN TERMS OF ANY INTEREST OF TIME AND DOING AS MUCH AS WE CAN BEFORE NEXT MONSOON SEASON.

I THINK THOSE ARE THE TWO THAT PROBABLY HAVE THE MOST ATTRACTION.

WHAT DO YOU THINK [INAUDIBLE].

I THINK WHATEVER OPTION WAS CHOSEN IF WE CHOSE THAT ONE, WE WOULD MAKE A REALLY STRONG PUSH TO GET SHOVELS IN THE PIT.

>> ANY ON THAT ONE, IS THE ARROYO SECO DIVERSION IN GOOD SHAPE TO THOSE TWO FACILITIES, OR IS IT ALL THREE AT THE SAME TIME?

>> I'LL ANSWER THAT. TO GET THE WATER TO THE KILLIP SCHOOL DETENTION BASIN WE WOULD HAVE TO BUILT THE ARROYO SECO DIVERSION.

>> THAT WOULD IMPACT THE PARK?

>> YES. THAT'S TRUE.

>> THAT WOULD IMPACT THE PARK.

SORRY, THE NEW COURTS.

WE TRIED TO WORK.

I WAS LOOKING AT IT LAST NIGHT, [INAUDIBLE] WE WERE THERE.

THERE'S SOME ROOM THERE, COULD NOT IMPACT THE COURTSIDE.

>> DOES IT TAKE OUT THE WHOLE GRASSY AREA?

>> I THINK WE WOULD WANT TO COUNT ON TAKING OUT THE GRASS AREA.

THOUGH, AGAIN, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING WITH THAT, BUT FOR PLANNING PURPOSES, LET'S TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT.

IF WE DON'T HAVE TO, THEN THAT WOULD BE A BETTER BET.

WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT, EMILY?

>> YES.

>> IN THINKING ABOUT AN ENGINEERING MODEL WORKING DOWNSTREAM UPWARD, THAT STARTS TO MAKE SOME SENSE.

UPWARD AS WE WORK WITH THE FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT, PARADISE CHANNEL, WE'RE DOING SOME WORK THERE NOW ACTUALLY BECAUSE WE ARE TRYING TO, TECHNICAL TERM, LAYOUT THAT CHANNEL SO AS TO SLOW DOWN THE VELOCITY.

THAT'S A COMBINATION WITH THE FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT. THAT'S HAPPENING NOW.

I DON'T THINK IT'S COMPLETE, BUT WE'RE HAPPY FOR THAT PROJECT BECAUSE IF WE CAN SLOW DOWN THOSE FLOWS OR ATTENUATE, WELL THAT BEFORE IT HITS THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WILL BE A BIG HELP.

NOT A BIG NUMBER THERE BUT WE THINK IT'S A GOOD BANK FOR THE ABOVE PROJECT [NOISE]

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> COUPLE OF MORE QUESTIONS.

ARE WE PLANNING TO AT ALL PARTNER OR UTILIZE AND REVIEW THE RESOURCES THAT THEY'VE PROVIDE WITH STUDENTS?

>> ANY OF YOU WHO'S BEEN HAS BEEN A BIG HELP WITH THE [INAUDIBLE] OPERATIONS FRANKLY AS I'VE GOTTEN SOME FOLKS OUT THERE.

IN TERMS OF INCORPORATING STUDENTS INTO THE PROCESS, WE CAN.

THERE WAS A NEWS INTERVIEW, I THINK IT WAS ON THE WATER COMMISSION, ONE OF THE PROFESSORS SPOKE.

HIS TALKING POINTS WERE SPOT ON, FRANKLY.

I'D RATHER HAVE HIM DELIVER THAT MESSAGE THAN ME, JUST TALKING ABOUT THE MAGNITUDE OF THE FLOWS.

I THINK WE CAN LOOK AT THAT.

WE'VE JUST BEEN PUSHING REALLY HARD TO GET TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY, AND THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY AGAIN TO TAKE A STEP BACK AND FACTOR IN DISCUSSIONS LIKE THAT.

>> QUICK FOLLOW UP.

WE GOT TWO QUICK FOLLOW UPS.

MOVING FORWARD, WHAT'S THE PARTNERSHIP WITH THE COUNTY LOOK LIKE?

>> FROM A RESPONSE STANDPOINT, I THINK WHEN YOU HAVE THE MAJOR EVENTS, THE SPRUCE AVENUE WASH AND THEN THE [INAUDIBLE] THEY HELP CLEAN UP AND EVERYTHING, BUT AT SOME POINT THE FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT, THEIR MESSAGE STARTED TO BECOME VERY COMPROMISED WATERSHEDS.

[02:40:05]

THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO FOCUS OUR EFFORTS.

WITH THE SPRUCE AVENUE WASHED FOR COMPROMISED WATERSHED AND RIGHT NOW WITH THE INITIAL DISCUSSIONS, THEY'RE WILLING AND READY TO CONTRIBUTE.

WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE YET, BUT FROM WHAT WE'RE UNDERSTANDING, FROM A HUMAN RESOURCE STANDPOINT AND A FINANCIAL STAND POINT THEY HAVE CONTRIBUTED.

THE COST THAT I GAVE DOES NOT INCLUDE THEIR COST AND THEY'VE SPENT A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF FUNDS ON SAND BAG PRODUCTION, CLEAN UP ETC.

THEY'VE BEEN A GREAT PARTNER.

>> ON OUR LAST QUESTION I THOUGHT MAY BE A SENSE OF DESIRE FOR AN ALARM SYSTEM.

ARE THERE ANY SHORT-TERM MITIGATIONS THAT CAN HELP WITH THAT KIND OF COMMUNICATION TO RESIDENTS THAT WE'RE LOOKING INTO.

>> MAY BE. WE WORKED WITH THE [INAUDIBLE] COUNTY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT ON [INAUDIBLE] THEY'RE BIG ADVOCATES FOR THE SYSTEM.

I ACTUALLY GREW UP IN THE MIDWEST IN WHICH WE HAD A TORNADO ALARMS. EVERY SMALL TOWN HAD ONE ON TOP OF THE WATER TOWER, RIGHT? LOOKING AT SOMETHING LIKE THAT, [NOISE] I THINK IN MODERN EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S DESIRED FOR VARIOUS REASONS THAT I CAN'T CITE THEM RIGHT NOW, BUT I THINK WE KEEP LOOKING AT REFINING OUR EMERGENCY NOTIFICATION TECHNIQUES [INAUDIBLE] I DIDN'T ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED.

>> IS THERE APPROXIMATE COST TO AN ALARM SYSTEM?

>> [INAUDIBLE] [OVERLAPPING] UPWARDS, YEAH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

I'M NOT SURE, I THINK THIS WAS ASKED AND UNLESS I ZONED OUT, I DIDN'T HEAR IT ANSWERED.

IF THIS MONEY WAS ALLOCATED, WHEN COULD THIS START?

>> CALEB, ARROYO SECO, DORTHA, IT STARTS PRETTY QUICKLY, WHEN CAN I SAY IS PARTICULARLY DORTHA IS EARLY AS THIS FALL.

>> DOES THIS ENTIRE MENU HAVE TO BE FUNDED IN ORDER FOR INDIVIDUAL PIECES OF IT TO WORK?

>> THAT'S IT. THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION.

THE DETENTION BASIN AGAIN HAVING TO GET IT THERE, THESE ARE THE PINCH POINTS.

IF LINDA VISTA ISN'T THROUGH, CEDAR WOULD BE FURTHER IMPACTED NEGATIVELY.

IF WE WERE TO WORK UPSTREAM, DORTHA TO CEDAR AND THEN LINDA VISTA, EVEN THOUGH WE'VE DOUBLED THE SIZE OF WHAT WAS EXISTING IN ALL FOUR OF THOSE MAJOR STORM EVENTS, I'M PRETTY CLEAR IT OVER TOPPED ALL FOUR TIMES.

THEN WE DID SOME ALTERNATIVE MEASURE ON CEDAR.

I THINK IT'S A LONG WAY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS.

I THINK WE WOULD WORK OUR WAY UP STREAM ON THIS PINCH POINTS.

>> YOU COULD GET UP TO CEDAR AND THAT WOULD BE OKAY TEMPORARILY?

>> LINDA VISTA WOULD STILL BE PROBLEMATIC, THEN YOU HAVE IN BETWEEN LINDA VISTA AND CIDER? GREY VIEW.

>> SO NO?

>> YOU'D STILL HAVE A LOT OF DIFFICULTIES.

>> EXACTLY. [BACKGROUND] [OVERLAPPING]

>> ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO CONSIDER IS IF YOU WERE TO START FROM BOTTOM UP, AND ONE OF THOSE CHOKE POINTS, LINDA VISTA, FOR EXAMPLE, MOVES THE WATER AWAY FROM THE CONVEYANCES WE GET.

IF YOU APPROVED IT ALL THE WAY AT THE LINDA VISTA, WITH ALL THAT WATER THAT WE'RE INTENDING TO GET TO THE KILLIP SCHOOL DETENTION BASE CAN ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO MAKE IT THERE NOW THAT IF YOU RESTRICTED IT AND CHANGED IT SOMEWHERE FURTHER UP STREAM.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO CONTINUALLY WORK BACK AND FORTH ON.

THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE, WE GO FROM TOP DOWN.

WE JUST CAN'T.

IF KILLIP SCHOOL DIDN'T HAPPEN, WE REALLY SHOULDN'T DO THE REST OF THE IMPROVEMENTS.

THE REASON IS, WE ARE ESSENTIALLY THE CAUSE AN ADVERSE IMPACT BY SENDING MORE WATER SOMEWHERE WHERE EVERYONE, PEOPLE ARE [INAUDIBLE] TO WAY BOTH SIDES.

ESSENTIALLY I ANSWER QUESTION MORE OR LESS, YES. YOU'D NEED TO DO ALL OF THEM.

>> IF WE COULD START THIS FALL, ARE WE PREPARED AS AN ENTITY TO CONTINUE ON WITH ALL OF THE OTHER IMPROVEMENTS GIVEN EVERYTHING ELSE THAT YOU'RE WORKING ON?

>> I THINK WE ARE. LINDA VISTA FOR EXAMPLE, WE DOUBLED THE SIZE OF THE CULVERTS.

YEAH. WE WOULD JUST CONTINUE ON THAT PATH, YEAH. IT'S A LOT OF WORK.

AS PART OF THE DRAINAGE MASTER PLAN, WE ARE HAVING PRELIMINARY DISCUSSIONS WITH THE COUNTY ON HOW TO CREATE

[02:45:04]

A STRUCTURE TO BE ABLE TO ALLOW US TO KEEP MARCHING FORWARD.

AS YOU KNOW VICE MAYOR HAD A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS WITH THE COMMUNITY, AND IT'S DEFINITELY THAT BALANCE BETWEEN MANAGING THE WHOLE PIECE WHETHER IT'S FINANCIAL, COMMUNICATIONS, TECHNICAL, CONSTRUCTION.

THERE'S A LOT AT PLAY [NOISE] AND MANAGING ALL OF THAT IS A LOT, BUT WE'RE READY.

>> GREAT.

>> THANKS, ANDY.

I DON'T KNOW WHO CAN ANSWER THIS QUESTION, PROBABLY ONE OF THE ENGINEERS OR RICK.

RICK'S AN ENGINEER, OF COURSE.

[LAUGHTER] I DIDN'T QUITE MEAN IT THAT WAY.

IF MONEY WAS NOT A CONSTRAINT OR STATED DIFFERENTLY, IF WE WERE TO FIND THE FUNDING.

WHAT IS A REASONABLE EXPECTATION IN TERMS OF HAVING ALL OF THESE PROJECTS COMPLETED TIMEWISE?

>> I WISH WE WERE TALKING FOR HIM, I THINK [OVERLAPPING]

>> I'M NOT PUTTING YOU ON THE SPOT, IT COULD BE JUST A GUESS.

>> I THINK HERE BEFORE NEXT TEARDOWN, BEFORE THE NEXT FLOOD SEASON IT'S DOABLE, CORRECT? ARROYO, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, DORTHA?

>> YEAH. DORTHA, ARROYO.

>> UP ABOVE.

>> I'M NOT CLEAR ON WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENED WITH THE DETENTION BASIN, THAT'S PROBABLY WHERE YOU AND I NEED TO SPEND MORE TIME TALKING.

THAT'S GOING TO BE COOPERATION WITH FUSD, IT'S ON THEIR PROPERTY.

I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW FAR THAT ONE IS ALONG, BUT ARROYO SECO AND THE DORTHA IMPROVEMENTS CAN BE COMPLETED PRIOR TO THE NEXT MONSOON SEASON.

>> THE DETENTION BASIN, I SPOKE TO THE ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENT LAST WEEK.

THEY'RE ON BOARD TO THE MAYOR'S QUESTION, I DON'T KNOW TO WHAT FINANCIAL LEVEL BUT I THINK THERE'S SOME FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS THERE.

I THINK WE COULD MOVE IT ALONG.

>> YEAH, IT'S A JOINT USE FACILITY JUST TO EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE FURTHER AND DOUG CAN PROBABLY HELP, BUT THE IDEA IS THEY'RE GOING TO PUT IN FIELDS AFTER WE BUILD A DETENTION FACILITY.

THEN THOSE FIELDS WOULD BE ASTROTURF LACKING A BETTER TERM, AND THEN PART OF THAT COST IS LONG-TERM CLEANUP ASSOCIATED WITH GETTING THOSE FIELDS BACK TO A PLAYABLE CONDITION AFTER EVERY STORM.

>> PRIOR TO ANY OF THAT, THE EXISTING STRUCTURE NEEDS TO BE POTENT FOR A VALID, WHICH I THINK FUSD IS, THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT DOING THAT.

>> THAT WOULD BE AN IGA THAT WOULD LAND IN FRONT OF THIS COUNCIL.

>> TO BREAK ON THAT TOPIC, WE'VE HEARD FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT THEY FULLY PLAN ON HAVING KILLIP OPENED BY NEXT SEPTEMBER.

IT SEEMS LIKE THE DETENTION FACILITY OR RETENTION, I GUESS IT'S DETENTION, COULD BE COMPLETED BY THAT TIME OR NOT NECESSARILY.

IT'S IF ASSUMING WE HAD AN IGA AND FUNDING WAS IN PLACE.

>> WELL. YEAH, I WOULD SEE THE NEED TO TRY TO HAVE ALL THAT CONSTRUCTION COMPLETED BEFORE THEY OCCUPIED THE SCHOOL, SO YEAH, WE SHOULD BE WORKING ON THAT.

I THINK ANDY DREW THE LINE, SO THEN WE GOT TO GET A BOX COVERED UNDER CEDAR.

THEN WE GOT TO IMPROVE THE CHANNEL FROM CEDAR UP TO LINDA VISTA.

THEN WE NEED TO IMPROVE THE LINDA VISTA CULVERT AND THAT WILL GET US TO ABOUT 650 CFS, AND THE FLOWS THAT OVER-TOPPED AT LINDA VISTA WHEN BLOWN DOWN THROUGH SUNNY-SIDE WERE 1,000 CFS DOUG, 1,100?

>> [INAUDIBLE] 1800 ON THAT AUGUST 17TH [INAUDIBLE]

>> OKAY.

>> THE CURRENT CAPACITY IS 300?

>> IT'S 350 TO GET UNDER LINDA VISTA.

>> [INAUDIBLE] AND SEE.

>> I THINK CEDAR IS SIMILAR, YES.

>> PLUS WE'LL ADD AN ADDITIONAL 650.

>> TOTAL?

>> TOTAL. [OVERLAPPING]

>> BASIC JUST DOUBLE.

>> AND THE NORTH THAT WOULD BE WHAT? BETWEEN 550 AND 750.

>> [OVERLAPPING] WOULD BE ACTUALLY A LITTLE BIT GREATER THE WAY IT WOULD BE HIGH DESIGNED WOULD BE TO MOVE THE WATER OUT OF THAT ROAD AND THEN ONLY ALLOW OUT OF IT WHAT THE DOWNSTREAM INFRASTRUCTURE DESIGNED TO HANDLE.

I THINK ACTUALLY IT WOULD PROBABLY BE AROUND THE 750.

[02:50:02]

BUT AGAIN, IT WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT OVER SIZED.

>> HAS CRYSTAL WATERS JOINED NORTH SIDE?

>> I WISH WE COULD PUT IT SOMEWHERE THAT'S NOT THROUGH OUR NEIGHBORHOODS.

>> WHAT SIZE WATER BED IS THAT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SUSTAIN ABOUT 50 OR WHATEVER THE [INAUDIBLE]

>> 10 TO 25. [OVERLAPPING]

>> WELL, THERE'S AN INTERESTING ONE.

NEXT YEAR, THE WATERSHED IS GOING TO BE A LITTLE MORE RECOVERED THAN IT IS THIS YEAR AND PROJECT DOWN.

IN THESE DESIGNS, THE FIRST THING WE ACTUALLY DID AT THAT SUMMIT WAS SAY, HOW FAR DO YOU WANT TO PROTECT OUR POST BURN RECOVERY, AND SO TO COME IN AND SAY IT'S A 10-YEAR EVENT THAT CAUSED THIS FLOOD WOULDN'T BE TRUE NEXT YEAR BECAUSE A LOT OF IT IS GOING TO CHANGE.

SAY SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 10 AND 25, YES.

>> GIVEN THE ERROR, WE CAN HAVE A NEW [INAUDIBLE] [OVERLAPPING]

>> THAT'S ANOTHER CONVERSATION.

THERE'S OTHER AREAS UP THERE THAT HAVEN'T BEEN BURNED SO THERE'S THAT POTENTIAL IF THE REST OF THE WATERSHED DID BURN, AND WE'D BE WAY OUT ON THE LOW END.

IT WOULD BE A TWO-YEAR EVENT THAT WOULD CAUSE THESE FLOODS IN THE FUTURE.

A LOT OF MOVING PARTS THERE TO BE ABLE TO SUCCINCTLY SAY IN A WAY THAT WOULD HAVE PUT 10 TO 25 IS A BIG ASSUMPTION.

>> BUT WE'RE WORKING THE PROBABILITIES.

>> WELL, THERE'S ALSO THE INEVITABILITY, BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN MITIGATING.

I THINK WE'RE HERE TO SOLVE TOMORROW'S PROBLEMS TODAY.

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK WE'RE READY TO GET INTO A DISCUSSION OF OPTIONS.

I'D LIKE TO TALK MORE TO THE FINANCIAL RAMIFICATIONS FIRST, BUT INDEED I'M ALL IN.

>> COUNSEL MAN, MCCARTHY.

>> IF WE INCREASE THE CAPACITY OF THE LINK OF THIS CULVERT, WOULD THAT MOVE MORE OF THE WATER DOWN THAT GULLEY OR THAT WASH AND MOVE IT AWAY FROM BRAND NEW STREET?

>> YES. SO YOU SEE SIMPLY JUST UP-SIZED THE LEGENDS OF THE CULVERT, MORE WATER WOULD MOVE THROUGH THAT CULVERT AND LESS WOULD COME UP AND DOWN [INAUDIBLE] IN BRAND VIEW.

HOWEVER, THERE WOULD BE MORE WATER BEHIND THOSE SAME HOMES THAT WERE IMPACTED.

THAT CHANNEL ISN'T DESIGNED TO CARRY THAT EXTRA WATER.

THERE WOULD BE ADVERSE IMPACTS ON THE BACKSIDE OF IT AND THEN THOSE WOULD CONTINUE ON MOVING DOWNSTREAM.

>> ON THIS LIST, DO WE HAVE ANYTHING TO IMPROVE THAT WASH?

>> YES.

>> THERE IS A GAP BETWEEN LINDA VISTA CULVERT AND CEDAR CULVERT. THERE'S A GAP HERE.

>> IT'S THAT BOTTOM LINE.

[INAUDIBLE] [OVERLAPPING].

>> THAT WASHED X IS PART OF ART.

IT'S THE MOST ABUNDANTLY SIZED COMPONENT RIGHT THERE SO THAT WOULDN'T BE UNDER CONSTRICTION, BUT WOULD IT HANDLE 650, I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

>> MY OTHER QUESTION IS ABOUT THE [INAUDIBLE] GENERATED IMPROVEMENTS.

THAT'S FOR DOROTHY AND MAIN, WHERE IT JUST COMPLETELY GOT CLOGGED UP WITH LOGS AND DEBRIS, AND YOU'RE GOING TO DO WHAT, MAKE A BIGGER OPENING OR?

>> YEAH, IT'S IT'S IT'S A MUCH BIGGER OPENING.

I THINK THAT THE BIGGER COMPONENT THERE IS NOT JUST THE OPENING SIZE, IT'S THE ABILITY TO PASS THE WATER.

A LOT OF THESE ARE IN CONJUNCTION WITH WHAT'S NOT SHOWN, AND ANDY'S MENTIONED A COUPLE OF TIMES, WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE COUNTY UPSTREAM, AND THAT IS THE ACCUMULATION OF DEBRIS AND SEDIMENT.

WE NEED TO GET THE SEDIMENT OUT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW BIG YOUR INLET IS IF IT CLOGS UP IN FOUR SECONDS.

IT'S IN THE WATER, YOU GET THROUGH IT.

THOSE PROJECTS WILL HELP REMOVE SOME OF THAT DEBRIS AND SEDIMENT WHICH SHOULD ALLOW THE CAPACITY.

IT IS A MUCH BIGGER INLET.

THE EXISTING PIPELINE IS ON THE SIZE IN THE FOREST AT CFS RANGE.

>> I'M LOOKING AT IT, INSTEAD OF IMPROVING THAT INLET, IT WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE TO MAKE THE CHANNEL OPEN WHERE IT'S NOT AN UNDERGROUND AND, OF COURSE YOU'D HAVE TO CLOSE DOROTHY STREET TO DO THAT, BUT HAVE THAT WOULD BE AN OPEN CHANNEL WHICH IS FAR LESS INCLINED TO GET CLOGGED UP.

>> RIGHT NOW IT'S BOTH.

IT'S AN INLET THROUGH A 60 FOOT PIPE. [OVERLAPPING].

>> SIXTY INCH.

>> SIXTY INCH PIPE, AND THEN THE BARRIERS ARE THERE TO ALLOW CONTINUATION OF THAT OPEN CHANNEL,

[02:55:03]

WHICH FRANKLY WAS AN ALLEY WAY THAT IS NOW, AND IT WAS A DRAINAGE WAY BEFORE BUT WASN'T NECESSARY.

>> WHAT I'M THINKING IS, AND I'M JUST TOSSING THIS OUT, I HAVEN'T REALLY RESEARCHED IT, BUT INSTEAD OF IMPROVING THE INLET, YOU JUST GOT RID OF THAT UNDERGROUND AND LET IT BE AN OPEN CHANNEL WHICH DOESN'T TEND TO CLOG UP AND YOU'D HAVE TO CLOSE DOROTHY STREET.

JUST SIMPLY THINK ABOUT IT.

>> IT WOULD BE PERMANENTLY CLOSED.

>> WELL, ARROYO SECO.

>> YEAH.

>> I MEAN, IT GOES UNDERGROUND THROUGH ARROYO SECO'S PARKING LOT SO TO OPEN THAT UP IS GOING TO HAVE TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE. IT'S COMPLICATED.

>> THE OPEN CHANNEL WAS ERODING SUCH THAT THE PIPE BECAME EXPOSED BUT THAT PIPE IS BENEFICIAL TO THE LARGER SYSTEM, RIGHT, RICK? IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?

>> IT'S A FAIR STATEMENT [OVERLAPPING].

I MEAN, WE'D HAVE TO GET IT BACK INTO A PIPE AT SOME POINT.

>> THE PIPE IS SUPER DIFFICULT TO MAINTAIN AND THAT INLET'S SUPER DIFFICULT TO MAINTAIN.

SOME PROGRESS WAS MADE YESTERDAY.

WE HAVE THE ELECTRIC DOZER, RIGHT.

THE MINI DOZER ARE AND SO THAT WILL BE HELPFUL.

SOME OF THESE BOX CULVERTS.

>> I GUESS MY POINT IS IF WE MADE IT ALL OPEN CHANNEL, IT WOULD BE LESS PRONE TO CLOGGING AND WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE MORE OF A CROSS-SECTIONAL AREA TO FLOW WATER.

I MEAN, IF YOU HAVE A PIPE LIKE THIS AND YOU GET RID OF IT, YOU'VE OPENED IT ALL UP.

>> WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT THOSE MIGHT BE CONSIDERATIONS ONCE WE GET FUNDING?

>> YEAH.

>> THEN IT'LL BE THE PLACE TO DO A FINAL DESIGN?

>> [INAUDIBLE] IT'S A GOOD IDEA AND ONE THAT WE'LL THINK THROUGH.

DEFINITELY PROS AND CONS.

I THANK YOU FOR PERCEIVED THAT WE'RE SENDING MORE WATER ABOVE GROUND AND WE HAVE A 60 FOOT PIPE.

JUST A LOT OF THINGS IN CLOSING THAT STREET PERMANENTLY.

LOTS OF THINGS TO THINK THROUGH BUT GOOD NOTION.

>> IT JUST BRAINSTORMING.

ALL IDEAS ARE GOOD FOR BRAINSTORMING.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> THAT WAS JUST THREE IN THE QUEUE COUNCIL MEMBERS [INAUDIBLE].

>> SCOTT, DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING?

>> NO, GO AHEAD.

>> SHERIFF?

>> I WAS JUST GOING TO TRY TO FRAME A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY MY OBSERVATIONS, BUT PLEASE GO AHEAD.

>> QUICK QUESTION. WE TALKED ABOUT WATER ONCE THAT BASICALLY IS COMING DOWN THE HILL.

WHAT ELSE, AND WHEN I SAY GO BACK MORE SO I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THERE IS A TO SLIDE IT, AND MORE SO THE APPROACH OF ADDRESSING THE WATER ON THE MOUNTAIN BEFORE IT STARTS COMING DOWN, THINKING THROUGH THE LINES OF LIKE A SOIL TREATMENTS AND THE REASON THAT WATER COMES DOWN SO QUICKLY IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE THAT BURN SCAR, EITHER MITIGATION STRATEGIES THAT WE KNOW OF TO ADDRESS BURN SCAR THAT MIGHT BE A BETTER INVESTMENT THAN JUST HANDLING THE WATER ONCE ITS ALREADY REACHED THE TOWN.

>> THERE ARE FOREST REGENERATION, WHICH TAKES A LOT OF TIME, AND THEN THE CHANNEL WORK ON THE FOREST.

I KNOW WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO TALK ABOUT A LOT, BUT RESULTS, SOME OF THE PROJECTS WERE IMPLEMENTED UTILIZING NATURAL RESOURCES CONSERVATION SERVICE, EW, EMERGENCY WATERSHED PROTECTION FUNDS.

THE COUNTY IS EXPLORING THOSE OPTIONS VERY DILIGENTLY AND POTENTIAL FOR HAVING SUCCESS IS PRETTY HIGH.

>> SO IT'S ON THE COUNTY WOULD YOU SAY?

>> THE ISSUE IS YOU CAN ATTENUATE OR YOU CAN MANAGE TO THE POINT WHERE IT'S NOT IMPACTING CITY INFRASTRUCTURE.

I WISH WE COULD.

>> MAYBE THEY'LL HELP. I DON'T KNOW.

>> YEAH. IT WOULD BE A PARTNERSHIP EFFORT.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION THAT'S PLUGGED IN AND VERY SUPPORTIVE STAFF.

WE HAVE GREAT RELATIONS, WE HAVE DEVELOPED A GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH STAFF.

THESE ARE ALL GOOD THINGS.

SO THEN IT'S A MATTER OF UNDERSTANDING THE FUNDING AVAILABILITY AND HOW WE CAN PLUG IT IN TO SPECIFIC PROJECTS.

WE'RE VERY HOPEFUL ABOUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL.

FRANKLY. HOPEFULLY THERE'S SOMETHING THERE THAT WE CAN UTILIZE.

>> NICK?

>> IF THE WORK THAT THE COUNTY IS WANTING TO OR IS CONSIDERED GETTING NORTH OF THE CITY LIMITS CONTINGENT ON US COMPLETING ALL OF THIS? [OVERLAPPING]

>> I THINK IN A PARTNERSHIP THEY COULD DO THE WORK.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S CONTINGENT, BUT THEY MIGHT BE IN A POSITION TO SAY, WE'RE SPENDING MONEY AND EFFORT.

WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT YOU WILL BE TOO.

>> I'M JUST WONDERING ABOUT THEIR LEGAL RISKS IF IT'S

[03:00:02]

GOING TO CREATE ADVERSE IMPACTS DOWNSTREAM.

DO WE HAVE TO DO OUR PROJECT BEFORE THEY CAN REALLY DO THEIRS FROM THE LEGAL RISKS.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF WE'LL HAVE TO DO OURS BEFORE THEIRS.

WE'LL HAVE TO EVALUATE ALL OF THAT AND IT CONTINUES TO BRING UP THE ADVERSE IMPACT ANALYSIS AND THE LEGAL RISKS FOR ALL OF US.

AND THEN SEPARATELY AS SEPARATE ENTITIES.

IT'S THERE AND IT'S GOING TO BE THERE IN ORDER TO MANAGE IT. VILLAGE.

YES, WE CAN. IT'S DIFFICULT [OVERLAPPING]

>> CAN I ADDRESS THAT POINT? I THINK THE LEGAL RISK COMES [NOISE] WHEN YOU MAKE A CHANGE THAT INCREASES THE FLOW BY DOWNSTREAM.

BUT ON THE FOREST LAND, I THINK WHAT THE PLAN IS TO SOMEHOW SLOW DOWN THE FLOW.

I WOULDN'T THINK THAT WOULD BE AN ISSUE.

>> THAT WOULD BE A VERY STRONG ARGUMENT, COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY.

THAT'S THEY'RE NOT DIVERTING OR INCREASING, BUT [INAUDIBLE] PRIOR TO. [OVERLAPPING]

>> RIGHT. WHICH IS A PUBLIC RISK IN THAT.

[OVERLAPPING] WE'LL TAKE IT.

>> AVOIDS RISK EVEN WITH GOOD INTENTION.

>> YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THOSE DAMN ORDERS UP. [LAUGHTER]

>> [NOISE] WE NEED A DAMN LAWYER.

>> JACKSON WOULD LIKE TO LAY IN IF THAT'S OKAY. [LAUGHTER]

>> ARE YOU ALL SURPRISED?

>> [LAUGHTER] NO.

>> NO [LAUGHTER].

ANYTIME ANY CONVERSATION COMES UP WITH RESPECT TO THE LEGAL RISKS, OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE AWARE OF THAT.

THAT'S LIKE ANDY SAID.

WE WILL BE EVALUATING AND MANAGING AND WORKING THROUGH THAT.

WHEN NECESSARY, WE CAN ADVISE YOU ON THAT.

BUT FOR PURPOSES OF THE CONVERSATION TODAY, ANDY THAT IS THE ANSWER.

WE'LL MANAGE, WE'LL WORK THROUGH AND DO WHAT WE CAN.

WE WON'T GET INTO ANY SPECIFICS ON WHAT WOULD OR WOULD NOT INCREASE THE LEGAL RISK OR WHAT WOULD OR WOULD NOT BE THE COUNTY'S CONSIDERATION WITH RESPECT TO THEIR LEGAL RISKS.

>> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT.

COUNCILMAN YOU HAD A QUESTION. [OVERLAPPING]

>> SPOKEN LIKE ONE OF THOSE LAWYERS, RIGHT? [LAUGHTER]

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> DOES ALL OF THIS INVOLVE ONLY PUBLIC LANDS, OUR RESOURCES.

>> PUBLICLY HELD INFRASTRUCTURE, PUBLICLY HELD.

WHERE THE CITY HAVE RIGHT TO BUILD.

ASIDE FROM FULFILL ITS PUBLIC TOOL.

>> I CERTAINLY WANT TO STAY WITHIN MY LANE AND BE SOMEWHAT COURTEOUS AND CAUTIOUS OF EVERY EXPERT IN THE ROOM ON THIS.

I DID WANT TO JUST MAKE A QUICK OBSERVATION AND I THINK THIS COMES FROM SOME OF MY EXPERIENCES OF MY PAST LIFE AND LIVING THIS SITUATION FOR TWO YEARS NOW FROM THE RESPONSE SIDE AND WHAT WE'RE ASKING AND WHAT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IS VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE IN A RETREAT SETTING OR EVEN VIA TOURS OR BEING IN THE FIELD.

THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF MOVING PARTS WITH THIS AND I [NOISE] FEEL FOR YOU BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THERE IS A REAL CLEAR CUT DECISION OR APPROACH THAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG.

THEY'RE ALL ASKING REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS AND YOU'RE ASKING QUESTIONS THAT WE'VE ALL ASKED OURSELVES.

I THINK IF I CAN UNDERSCORE ANYTHING, IT IS THIS, IS THAT YOU HAVE A TEAM OF REALLY COMPETENT ENGINEERS AND EXPERTS AND PRIVATE, PUBLIC LEADING THE CHARGE AND TRYING TO SOLVE AS MUCH OF THIS PROBLEM AS POSSIBLE.

NO ONE IN ANY OF THE ROOMS HAS COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT IS THE BEST MITIGATION EFFORT THAT JUST MAKES TOTAL SENSE AND WORKS IN ITS ENTIRETY.

BUT A LOT OF GOOD IDEAS HAVE COME OUT OF A LOT OF THESE MEETINGS AND A LOT OF THESE ARE ON THE LIST, ARE REFLECTIVE OF THESE REALLY GOOD CONVERSATIONS.

I GUESS I WOULD ASK AND THIS IS SOMETHING I THINK YOUR GROUP THINK YOUR GROUP MIGHT HAVE TALKED ABOUT.

NONE OF THESE TO A DEGREE, ARE COMPLETELY VETTED IN THE ENTIRE SYSTEM.

THEY'VE ALL BEEN LOOKED AT AND THEY'VE ALL BEEN ANALYZED TO A DEGREE, BUT WE ALSO STILL HAVE ONLY ABOUT 60 DAYS BETWEEN THE LAST EVENT AND TODAY.

THE ENGINEERING EXERCISE WAS ABOUT A MONTH AGO.

WE NEED SOME TIME AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S A DELAY.

I'M JUST SAYING THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT I THINK WILL ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT WE'LL GET TO THE QUESTIONS OF HOW MUCH FLOW COMES OFF THE FOREST, HOW MUCH FLOW CAN FIT THROUGH LINDA VESTA AND THEN NOT IMPACT CEDAR IN THE DORTHA IN ARROYO SECO.

ALL OF THIS ANALYSIS WORK AND THESE FEASIBILITY AGREEMENTS ARE COMING.

I KNOW WE'RE WORKING ON CONCURRENTLY.

I SAY THIS BECAUSE I THINK IT CAN PROVIDE YOU SOME LEVEL OF COMFORT KNOWING THAT YOU HAVE A CONSTITUENCY IN THE COMMUNITY SAYING, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?" WE'RE DOING THINGS, WE NEED TO CLEARLY ARTICULATE WHAT

[03:05:01]

WE'RE DOING TO YOU SO YOU CAN ARTICULATE THAT.

THEN WE ARE ASKING IN THIS QUESTION, THE RESOURCE ALLOCATION PIECE AND ALL OF THIS COSTS MONEY AND WE KNOW THERE'S OTHER PARTNERS, FOREST SERVICE, STATE, FEDERAL, LOCAL, COUNTY.

I MEAN, THESE WILL ALL BE PLAYERS AT THE TABLE, BUT I DO SEE THAT THE NUMBERS ARE INSURMOUNTABLE TO SOME DEGREE.

MAYBE AS A COUNCIL, WE DECIDE WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE IT AS IS AND JUST USE THE RESPONSE MODEL AS THE BEST MECHANISM, AND THAT'S OKAY.

THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING AND THAT'S WHAT MAY OCCUR.

BUT IF THERE'S MORE DESIRE TO GO BEYOND SHORT-TERM MITIGATION INTO MIDDLE AND TO LONGER-TERM MITIGATION, THEY JUST NEED FOCUSED EFFORT AND WE NEED SOME TIME TO GET THROUGH THOSE.

SO JUST A SIMPLE OBSERVATION AND ANDY, YOU'RE GETTING THERE.

IT'S JUST LET US WORK THROUGH FEASIBILITY ON SOME OF THESE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A MAGIC NUMBER THAT WE NEED IN THE FIRST YEAR OR TWO, WE KNOW KILLIP SCHOOL IS READY TO DELIVER, THAT ONE WILL BE A REALLY GOOD DELIVERABLE PROJECT THAT HELPS THE SYSTEM NOT IN ITS ENTIRETY, BUT IT HELPS EVERYTHING SOUTH OF THERE.

THEN IF WE CAN GET FURTHER INTO THE PROJECTS AND FURTHER INTO THE PROJECTS, YOU'RE GOING TO FIND $20 MILLION WORTH OF EFFORT MAKES A LOT OF DIFFERENCE TO A LOT OF RESIDENTS, BUT MAYBE NOT EVERY RESIDENT IN EVERY STREET.

I WOULD SUGGEST WE FOCUS ON A DEDICATION TO A FEASIBILITY WORKING JOINTLY.

ANDY YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB, I THINK SETTING UP THE COUNTY A STRUCTURE THAT MIGHT WORK WELL IN THE COMING MONTHS AND YEAR.

THEN GIVING YOU ALL COMFORT KNOWING THAT WE'RE WORKING ON THINGS OR GETTING THEM THERE.

THEN THERE WILL BE SOME ASKS AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE INFRASTRUCTURE ASKS, BUT FRANKLY, YOU COULD SAY TAKE $6 MILLION AND GO DO GOOD WORK, AND WE'RE GOING COME BACK WITH $6 MILLION WORTH OF GOOD WORK.

THERE'S A LEAP OF FAITH HERE BECAUSE WE'VE HAD 60 DAYS TO GET TO SOMETHING THAT MAKES SENSE FOR YOU AND IT'S REALLY HARD TO PRESENT THAT AND BE ABLE TO ANSWER EVERY SINGLE QUESTION ABOUT IT.

SO IT'S JUST A PERSPECTIVE.

I REALLY WANT TO BE CAUTIOUS HERE AND AS RESPECTFUL AS POSSIBLE, BUT COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S JUST NOT AN EASY ONE TO TOTALLY GET YOUR BRAIN COMPLETELY AROUND.

>> THANK YOU SCOTT. SOMEWHAT IN TANDEM WITH THAT PROJECT THAT WAS AT LEAST PARTIALLY FUNDED PRIOR TO THE EVENTS OF THIS SUMMER, IS THE DORTHA INLET PROJECT AND IT'S STILL IN THE QUEUE TO BE POSSIBLY COMPLETED THIS FALL.

THAT WOULD NECESSITATE SOME CHANNEL IMPROVEMENTS AS WELL.

WE HAVE WORKED SOME OF THE BUDGET FIGURES AROUND TO ENABLE THAT TO GO FORWARD AND THE QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED, DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO DO THAT NOW, RECOGNIZING ALL OF THESE OTHER IMPROVEMENTS ARE NEEDED? THE RESPONSE GENERALLY IS, "YEAH, THERE'S THERE'S LITTLE DOWNSIDE IN MOVING FORWARD WITH THAT." IT'S PART OF A BIG FIX.

THIS IS ACTUALLY NOT A FIX, IT'S AN IMPROVEMENT.

IT'S A PART OF IT AND IT WON'T BE WORK DONE UNNECESSARILY OR ANYTHING THAT HAS TO BE REDONE IN THE BIG SCHEME OF THINGS.

I JUST WANT TO PUT THAT OUT ON THE TABLE [INAUDIBLE] STILL THE TECH WAYS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT PARTICULAR PART OF THIS PROJECT.

I THINK WE CAN ALL EVALUATE THAT MUCH FURTHER IS AN INTERESTING ONE BECAUSE WE DO WANT TO MOVE FORWARD AND DO SOME THINGS THAT MAKES SENSE.

BUT IF THE NOTION IS, WE SHOULD TAKE A PAUSE, AND STEP BACK AND DO THE GREATER FEASIBILITY STUDY AND RE-EVALUATE THOSE PROJECTS AS SOME OTHER ALTERNATIVE, WE DO THAT AT THE RISK OF NOT SHOWING THE COMMUNITY THAT WE'RE MOVING FORWARD WHERE WE CAN AND WHERE IT'S ALREADY BEEN RESOURCED.

IT'S COMPLICATED.

BUT I JUST WANT TO ALERT YOU TO THE FACT THAT WE DO HAVE THAT PROJECT.

AGAIN, IT PRECEDES THE MONSOON EVENTS.

WE WERE GOING TO DO THIS PROJECT.

I THINK ALWAYS ANTICIPATED TO BE A FALL PROJECT. SO WE'RE THERE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW COUNCIL FEELS ABOUT THAT, BUT WE MIGHT AS WELL HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS.

IF THERE'S HESITANCY TO MOVING FORWARD, WE WANT TO KNOW THAT. [BACKGROUND]

>> [NOISE] I'M GENERALLY SUPPORTIVE IF SOMETHING LOOKS VERY SIMILAR TO OPTION 2.

THE IDEA OF JUST DON'T DO ANYTHING AND FOLLOW THROUGH OPTION 1, I DON'T SUPPORT THAT.

I HAD TWO THOUGHTS.

ONE IS I WOULD HOPE THE ENGINEERS WOULD EVALUATE MY IDEA.

DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO IMPROVE THE DORTHA INLET OR WOULD IT BE BETTER JUST TO GENERALIZE THAT THROUGH THERE? THAT MIGHT NOT MAKE SENSE, BUT I TRUST THE ENGINEERS TO ANALYZE THAT.

MY LAST QUESTION IS,

[03:10:03]

DO WE HAVE THE FUNDING RIGHT NOW TO SUPPORT THE ENGINEERS TO ANALYZE THIS AND MOVE FORWARD WITH THE PLANNING TO GET THIS DONE, OR ARE WE GOING TO WAIT HERE AND SAY, WELL, WE'LL SEE IF WE CAN GET FUNDING NEXT JUNE TO DO THE NECESSARY ANALYSIS THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE RIGHT NOW? WELL, SCOTT, DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT OR ANYBODY ELSE?

>> SCOTT OR ANDY, COULD YOU SPEAK TO THE FLOOD GROUP AND WHAT IS CURRENTLY BEING DISCUSSED WITH THE FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT AND WHAT THEY INVOLVE PARTICIPATION WITH THE CITY? I THINK IT'S ON POINT WITH THE COUNCIL MEMBER, MCCARTHY'S QUESTION.

>> JOHN, I THINK THAT MYSELF, ANDY, CHRISTOPHER [INAUDIBLE] LUCINDA, HAVE BECOME THE GO-TO THROUGHOUT THE PROJECT.

EVERYONE HAS A ROLE AND EVERYONE'S REALLY IMPORTANT, BUT THE FOUR OF US HAVE TRIED TO MOVE THE BIG PICTURE STUFF.

THAT'S WHY I THINK YOU'RE HEARING FROM US AND ME IN PARTICULAR TO SAY, WHAT ARE WE DOING IN THE JE FLORAL WORK IN NARROW LOCAL HYDROLOGY CONSULTANT WORK, PRETTY WELL KNOWN NOW IN THE WESTERN UNITED STATES FOR POST-WILDFIRE? THEY DID A LOT OF STUFF ON SCHULTZ, THEY HAVE NOW SENSED NOT A LOT OF WORK IN THE WESTERN UNITED STATES.

JOE IS A LOCAL ENGINEER AND HIS TEAM HAS FIGURED OUT A WAY TO MODEL POST-FIRE FLOOD EVENTS.

ALL OF THE SHORT-TERM MITIGATIONS THAT WERE PUT INTO PLACE WERE MODELED FROM JE FLORAL'S WORK IMPROVED UP TO BE ALMOST QUITE ACCURATE TO EXACT EVENTS.

WE TRUST IT, WE LOOK AT THE SCIENCE, WE QUESTION IT, WE ASK OURSELVES, WHAT WORKS? WHAT DOESN'T WORK? BUT WHAT JOE HAS NOW DEVELOPED IS WE'VE HAD THIS EXACT SAME CONVERSATION THAT YOU'RE HAVING AND THEY HAVE DEVELOPED A FLOWCHART AND OUTLINE OF WHAT WOULD A MUSEUM FIRE FLOOD IMPROVEMENT LOOK LIKE FROM DOWNSTREAM AT I-40 SOUTH 4TH STREET, ALL THE WAY TO THE VERY TOP OF THE BURN AND ALL THE DIFFERENT AGENCIES, ALL THE DIFFERENT PLAYERS, ALL THE DIFFERENT PARTNERS.

HOW WOULD THIS LOOK? HOW DOES IT GET MODELED AND HOW WOULD WE BUILD A FRAMEWORK THAT CAN DELIVER MEANINGFUL PROJECTS? IT'S IN ITS INFANCY DRAFT STAGES.

WE SPENT ABOUT A WEEK ON IT, BUT I DO BELIEVE IT IS A MODEL THAT WE WILL LIKELY BRING BACK TO AN ELECTED BODY.

I BELIEVE THE COUNTY IS GOING TO DO THE SAME WHAT THEIR ELECTED BODY TO SAY, HERE'S OUR JOINT FORCE.

HERE'S OUR JOINT MODEL AND OUR APPROACH TO TRY TO ATTACK THIS PROBLEM FROM THE MOST FURTHEST DOWNSTREAM EFFECT, ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP OF THE BURN. CAN WE ALL GET ON BOARD? I'M ASSUMING THAT'S THE STUDY YOU'RE REFERRING TO [OVERLAPPING] OR THE WORK YOU'RE REFERRING TO.

WE HAVE BROUGHT IT TO THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE AND HAD SOME GENERAL DISCUSSIONS.

I WOULD SUGGEST WE NEED TO MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION AND I THINK WE ARE, BUT WE'RE STILL VETTING HOW ALL THOSE PIECES WORK TOGETHER.

BUT THAT WILL FORMULATE THE IDA'S.

THAT WILL FORMULATE THE ENGINEER FOCUS TO EACH AREA OR EACH SEGMENT OF THE UNIT, AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO GO DELIVER GOOD PROJECT WORK AND TRY TO GET OURSELVES OUT OF WHAT IS PROBABLY THE WORST THING TO TRY TO SOLVE.

>> IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, YOU DO HAVE THE FUNDING TO SUPPORT WHAT YOU NEED TO DO RIGHT NOW.

>> THEY DIDN'T ANSWER THAT PART.

>> IF THEY DON'T MEAN THE WHOLE PRACTICE, THAT MEANS WE'RE BRANDING IT OUT.

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ENGINEERING PART.

>> YES, THE ENGINEERING [OVERLAPPING]

>> WE MAY BE COMING BACK ON THAT ONE, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE COST HERE WOULD LOOK LIKE, BUT THE IDEA IS SCOTT JUST ARTICULATED.

BY THE WAY, THIS HAS BEEN VETTED WITH REPAIR CHAIN DILLION AND ANDY AND OTHERS.

THIS IDEA OF JOINING FORCES WITH THE COUNTY, HAVING THIS OUTSIDE ENGINEERING FIRM WHO SPECIALIZES IN THIS STUDY, WHO HAS HELPED IN OUR SITUATION BEFORE AND WE THINK WITH SUCCESSFUL RESULTS IN TERMS OF AT LEAST FORECASTING.

AS TO THE COST OF THAT, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COSTS ARE.

WE'D COME BACK TO COUNCIL ON THAT ONE, BUT I'M GOING TO GENERALIZE AND SAY, COMPARED TO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT ON THE SCREEN THAT WOULD BE DOABLE.

LOOKING AT THE UPFRONT COST WITH A FEASIBILITY STUDY VERSUS THE BRICKS AND MORTAR COST OF DOING THESE PROJECTS IS GOING TO PAY A PRESENT.

>> ALL RIGHT. IT ISN'T LIKE, OH, ENGINEERING CAN'T DO THE ANALYSIS NOW BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY FUNDING BETTER.

>> OF COURSE, NO. NOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WHAT AND YOU'RE SPEAKING I THINK THE HOW MUCH THAT'S COMING.

>> YEAH.

>> WE'LL REPORT BACK TO YOU ON THAT, BUT WE THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA.

>> COUNCIL MEMBER [INAUDIBLE]

>> GOOD COMMENTS. AS WE DO THINGS WITHIN THIS JOURNEY AND THIS PATH, I THINK IT WILL BE IN ORDER THAT WE MIGHT ALSO COME UP WITH SHORT-TERM MITIGATION STRATEGIES FOR THE [INAUDIBLE] AS WE WORK ON THE LONG-TERM STUFF.

I THINK WE ALL FEEL THE PRESSURE FROM THESE NEIGHBORS AND THEY WANT TO SEE US NOT ONLY TAKE ON LONG-TERM MITIGATION WHICH WELL, HERE IT IS.

[03:15:03]

THIS IS GOING TO TRY TO MINIMIZE THE IMPACT, BUT THE ATTACK IS STILL GOING TO BE SIGNIFICANT WIDELY.

IT'S GOING TO THROW THAT IN GEAR.

THE CSOS TALKED ABOUT SHORT-TERM AND BAD DATA PREP APPROACHES TO HELPING SOMEBODY LIKE ELDERLY INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE ALWAYS STRUGGLING WITH THIS.

THEN THE LAST NIGHT, IF YOU HAD SEEN THE LOAN FOR THE TIMING AND VENDOR AND FEELING THAT TRAUMA, HERE WE GO AGAIN.

I MAY BE IN THE FRONT LINE, BUT I CAN'T IMAGINE THE AMOUNT OF TERROR OR THE MENTAL HEALTH OF THE INDIVIDUAL.

ANYTHING WE CAN DO, THE ADELINE RHYTHM FOR SHORT-TERM MITIGATION HAVE THAT STRATEGY.

I WAS IN THE SUPPORT OF IT, BUT IN GENERAL, I VERY MUCH SUPPORT THE PLAN, I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT TO IT.

>> COUNCIL MEMBER, SHORT-TERM IS EXACTLY WHAT'S IN PLACE RIGHT NOW.

WE'VE GOT TO MOVE AWAY FROM SHORT-TERM AND GET TO MEDIUM AND LONG-TERM MITIGATIONS BECAUSE THE SHORT-TERM ISN'T SUSTAINABLE.

IT IS VERY DETRIMENTAL TO THE COMMUNITY AND VERY HARD ON PEOPLE, BUT THE SHORT-TERM IS WHAT'S IN PLACE TODAY.

NOW THE SUPPORT OF SHORT-TERM, I THINK ARE THE POINTS YOU'RE REFERRING TO.

YES, WE CONTINUE TO TALK WITH RESIDENTS AND TO MEET WITH RESIDENTS AND REVISE OUR OPERATIONS AND TO GIVE ASSISTANCE WHERE IT'S NEEDED, AND UTILIZE UNITED WAY IN APPROPRIATE MANNERS.

I DON'T THINK THAT WILL EVER STOP.

EVEN IF WE COULD PLEAD ALL OF THE MEDIUM AND LONG-TERM MITIGATIONS, THERE STILL MAY BE SOME SHORT-TERM MEASURES IN PLACE.

WE KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE A COMMITMENT LONG-TERM FOR SOME OF THESE RESIDENTS BECAUSE THEY'RE SIMPLY IN THE WORST PART OF THE WORST SPOT IN THE ENTIRE RUSH.

>> THERE'S NOTHING ELSE SHORT-TERM THAT YOU MAY THINK OF.

>> WE MEET THREE TIMES A WEEK AND WE MAKE IMPROVEMENTS EVERY WEEK, BUT RIGHT NOW, IT'S FUNCTIONING THE WAY IT SHOULD FUNCTION AND IT'S FUNCTIONING WELL WHICH IS A GOOD THING.

>> AGAIN, THE FUNDING AND THE BUDGET APPROVAL FOR THE DOORS IN THERE AND RELATED IMPROVEMENTS ARE ALSO IN PLACE.

I DON'T CHARACTERIZE THAT AS A BAND-AID APPROACH.

THAT IS PART OF THE PUZZLE HERE AND THE LOGICAL PROJECT TO PRECEDE THE OTHER ONES, ESPECIALLY WITH THE NOTION THAT KILLIP GETS COMPLETED BETWEEN NOW AND NEXT SEPTEMBER.

THAT ONE DOES MAKE SENSE, I BELIEVE.

I THINK MANY OF US WOULD AGREE.

I WANTED TO CHECK IN TIME-WISE. HEY, JENNY.

YOU HAD YOUR FINGER UP, YOU KNOW HOW [OVERLAPPING] INTUITIVE.

WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT FUNDING.

IS NOW A GOOD TIME TO GET TO THAT?

>> YEAH.

>> WHAT? THE OTHER RICK.

>> THE OTHER RICK?

>> RICK AND ASSOCIATE LIST.

[LAUGHTER]

>> WHEN WE TALK ABOUT FUNDING, EVERYBODY GETS UP OUT OF THEIR SEAT AND EXITS.

[LAUGHTER].

>> EXCEPT RICK TATTER.

WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF SOMETHING [OVERLAPPING]

>> WE ARE NOT [INAUDIBLE]

>> THERE'S GOT TO BE PART OF THAT [OVERLAPPING]

>> YEAH, PROCESSING THE WATER IS WHAT WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT THE TIPS.

>> YEAH.

>> IT'S STILL AFTERNOON OR MORNING, I DON'T KNOW.

>> ACTUALLY, WE HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO THE AFTERNOON.

>> WELL, GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR, VICE MAYOR OF THE CITY COUNCIL, TEAM FLAGSTAFF AND EVERYBODY.

WATER SERVICES BROUGHT A FEW BIG ASKS FINANCIALLY.

I THINK IT WAS A GREAT CONVERSATIONAL, WELL-BUILT THROUGH A LOT OF PEOPLE'S HEALTH AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR CONVERSATIONS ON THOSE.

THEY CAN BUILD THE ASK AND THEN THEY ALWAYS TURN AND SAY, OKAY, HOW DO WE GET THERE? HOW DO WE FUND THESE THINGS? THIS REALLY TRIGGERS ALL OF MANAGEMENT SERVICES TO WE'VE GOT SOMETHING TO HELP SOLVE AND BRING SOME DISCUSSIONS BOARD FROM FINANCE, BUDGET, PURCHASING, CONTRACTS, AND OUR BILLINGS TEAM.

WE'RE BRINGING THE REVENUES TO TAKE CARE OF THESE THINGS SO WE'RE HERE TO HELP AND TALK ABOUT WHAT IS DOABLE IN OUR ORGANIZATION.

IF WE GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE OR I GOT TO HERE, YOU CAN JUST DROP THAT AND YOU CAN RUN THIS. THERE'S A BALANCE THERE.

>> JUST DO ON THE RIGHT.

>> JUST SUMMARIZING SOME OF THE CONVERSATION WE HAD TODAY, IT'S HEY, WE NEED $313 MILLION.

I'M LIKE, "WHOA, WHEN DO WE NEED THIS?" IT'S ONE OF MY BIG QUESTIONS.

LET ME THINK ABOUT HOW WE GET THERE.

HERE'S JUST A SUMMARY OF THE WILDCATS IN STORMWATER NEEDS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.

FOR OPTION 1 AND 2, WE ARE REALLY LOOKING AT A BIG INVESTMENT IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.

THERE'S MAINTENANCE, THERE'S IMPROVEMENTS TO THE EXISTING SYSTEM THAT IS NEEDED THERE.

WE NEED TO GET DESIGN STARTED, WHICH IS A BIG DOLLAR TICKET FOR DESIGN AND THAT KIND OF WORK.

REGARDLESS, WHETHER IT'S OPTION 1 OR OPTION 2,

[03:20:02]

WE NEED TO START THESE INVESTMENTS AND WE'RE TALKING SHORT-TERM FIVE YEARS.

WE NEED TO START GETTING THE FUNDS SET ASIDE FOR THESE PROJECTS.

THE LONGER-TERM AS WE GET OUT TO SIX-PLUS YEARS IS ANOTHER FOCUS WE NEED TO TAKE LOOK AT, THE LONG-TERM IMPACTS OF FINANCING FOR THE PROJECTS.

THAT 135 MILLION TO NEARLY THREE MILLION IS SOMETHING THAT HAS DIFFERENT BALANCES OF NEEDS AND TIMING.

WE SEE THAT AS A MORE CURRENT IMPACT THAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE THESE MITIGATIONS DONE IN A SHORTER PERIOD OF FIVE-YEAR PERIOD, MAINLY THE OPTION 1 AND 2 CONVERSATIONS THAT WERE TALKED ABOUT TODAY.

THE OPTION 3, I THINK IS MORE THAT LONG-TERM, LIKE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PLANTS AND BUILDING.

THOSE WILL NEED ADDITIONAL TIME AND FUNDING.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT MID RANGE STUFF, BUT RIGHT NOW IN THE FIVE-YEAR PERIOD.

HERE'S JUST A LIST OF THOSE PROJECTS THAT ANDY BROUGHT FORTH IN THE STORMWATER TEAM, JUST SUMMARIZING WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT.

WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT FUNDING NEEDS FOR ORGANIZATIONS, I LOOK AT WHAT'S IN OUR TOOLBOX, WHAT'S AVAILABLE TO PROCESS, GET FINANCIAL NEEDS, AND MOVE THESE PROJECTS FORWARD FOR OUR FUNDS THROUGHOUT THE CITY.

OF COURSE, THE ENTERPRISE FUNDS HAS DIFFERENT RESOURCES THAN MAYBE A GENERAL FUND.

THERE'S THINGS THAT ARE MORE DOABLE OR LESS DOABLE WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FUND TYPES.

IN THIS CONVERSATION WE'RE LOOKING MORE OF THE ENTERPRISE FUNDS.

THAT'S WHY WE BROUGHT THOSE TOGETHER FOR OUR FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS.

THEY'RE SIMILAR IN WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IN THESE FUNDS.

WE HAVEN'T DONE ANY FINANCIAL MODELING YET.

THESE ARE FRESH NUMBERS AND BIG NUMBERS THAT WE NEED TO REALLY WORK THROUGH.

BUT UNDERSTANDING WHAT US COUNCIL ARE INTERESTED IN HAVING IN OUR TOOLBOX IS IMPORTANT TO US.

SOME OF THESE THINGS YOU MAY SAY, "NO, LET'S NOT GO THERE" SOME THINGS MAY BE A YES, THUMBS UP, MOVE, ON IT AND GO.

WE'RE LOOKING FOR A LITTLE BIT OF YOUR DIRECTION TODAY TO SAY, "YES, START MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION, START PUTTING THESE INTO TOOLBOX AND MOVING FORWARD." AFTER YOU GO THROUGH THESE RESOURCES, WE WILL RESPECT YOU AND SAY, "GIVE US AN IDEA, WHAT DON'T YOU WANT TO DO? WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR IN THIS CONVERSATION." AT THE TOP FOR ENTERPRISE FUNDS, THEIR MAIN RESOURCE IS USER FEES.

BRINGING IN A FEE FOR THE SERVICES THAT WE'RE PROVIDING IS VERY COMMON FOR ENTERPRISE FUNDS, AND REALLY THE TOP OF WHAT WE HAVE IN OUR TOOLBOX.

THAT'S ALWAYS IN THE TOOLBOX ARRAY CHANGE CASH CASHING ON THAT IS SOMETHING THAT COUNCIL CAN ADOPT AND BRING FORWARD TO PAY FOR INFRASTRUCTURE COSTS, OPERATING COSTS, AND SO FORTH.

WE WILL LOOK AT THE WASTEWATER SIDE, OUR USER FEES IN WASTEWATER, ABOUT $10.5 MILLION.

WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THAT NUMBER VERSUS SOME OF THESE, $180-$313 MILLION, I'M GOING TO START ON THE LOW END, 180 MILLION, YOU'RE REALLY LOOKING AT ALMOST DOUBLING FEES, DOUBLING EVERY CUSTOMER'S WATER PAY OVER THE NEXT 15 YEARS, TO PAY IT AS YOU GO AND GET IT DONE.

THAT WOULD BE UP AGAIN.

WE'RE NOT ALWAYS LOOKING AT JUST ONE OPTION [NOISE] WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE CONVERSATIONS, BUT HOW COULD WE PAIR OPTIONS TOGETHER TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND HAVE LOWER IMPACTS TO CUSTOMERS.

WHEN WE'VE DONE PREVIOUS RATE INCREASES IN WASTEWATER, THEY'VE BEEN IN THE 5-6 PERCENT, SO THIS WOULD BE A HUGE DIFFERENCE THAN WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST.

IT'S A BIGGER PROBLEM, IT'S A BIGGER ITEM TO SOLVE WITH OUR REVENUES.

ON THE STORMWATER SIDE, I HAVE THE $5 MILLION NUMBER HERE, THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THAT OPTION 3 THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, WHICH WE'RE GOING TO FOCUS THE SHORT-TERM.

THEIR REVENUES ARE ABOUT 4.3 MILLION AT AN ANNUAL BASIS.

IF YOU LOOK AT WANTING TO GET THAT NUMBER, THE 25 MILLION OVER FIVE YEARS, PRETTY SIMPLE, $5 MILLION A YEAR.

YOU'RE GOING TO START OVER DOUBLE YOUR RAISE FOR STORMWATER, TO GET IT TO A PAY-AS-YOU-GO, AND PAY FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE AS WE GO FORWARD.

JUST TRYING TO SHOW YOU THE MEASUREMENTS OF WHAT THESE TOOLS MEAN.

STORMWATER FEES WERE INCREASED FROM 1.47 TO 2.26 IN FEBRUARY 2018, TO BE A SHORT-TERM FIX FOR SOME OF THE FINANCIAL NEEDS WE NEEDED.

[03:25:04]

BUT IN JULY OF 2019 IS WHEN WE DID A LARGE INCREASE AND THE RATE IS NOW 3.74 PER EQUIVALENT RUN UP UNIT PER MONTH.

THAT WAS THE INFLUX $36 MILLION IN FUNDING FOR CAPITAL PROJECTS IN OUR STORMWATER FUND.

HERE WE'LL NEED ANOTHER 25 MILLION.

THAT GIVES YOU PERSPECTIVE OF WHERE OUR RATES HAVE BEEN AND WHAT WE'VE ASKED AND ADOPTED AS COUNCIL IN A RAISE.

A MONTHLY IMPACT IF YOU DO, LIKE A $4 RATE FOR CUSTOMERS IS ABOUT $21 A MONTH.

FOR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS, IT RANGES.

IT'S BASED ON EQUIVALENT RUNOFF UNITS, I THINK IT'S TWO [INAUDIBLE] HERE, BUT IT COULD BE FROM 3.74-$21 PER MONTH.

THERE IS A PERSPECTIVE ON A USER FEE AND USING OUR TOOLBOX.

THE NEXT ITEM IS CAPACITY FEES.

OUR CAPACITY FEES ARE ONLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF WATER PROJECTS.

WE DO HAVE WATER AND WASTEWATER ELIGIBLE AND WE DO HAVE A CAPACITY FEE IN PLACE, AND THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED UNDER THE [NOISE] WASTEWATER SIDE.

YOU SEE A STORMWATER SIDE IS CROSSED OFF, THAT'S NOT A TOOL FOR STORMWATER PROJECTS.

THOUGH, WE'RE NOT GOING TO TURN AROUND IT AND ADOPT THE CAPACITY FEE TO SOLVE THESE TYPES OF PROBLEMS. THESE ARE CAPACITY FEES WHICH ARE DIFFERENT THAN DEVELOPMENT FEES.

CAPACITY FEES ARE ALLOWED BY WATER SERVICES TYPE FUNDS, AND THAT'S WHAT WE MODELED OUR RATES UNDER.

THE OTHER KEY POINT WITH CAPACITY FEES IS ONLY ABOUT GROWTH RELATED COSTS.

WHILE WE'RE LOOKING AT $180 MILLION PRICE TAG, NOT ALL OF THAT'S GROWTH-RELATED.

A LOT IS ABOUT MAINTAINING, GETTING BACK TO THAT $6 MILLION CAPACITY WE ALREADY HAVE.

REALLY, IT'S THAT ROLES THAT CAN PAY WITH CAPACITY FEES.

THERE'S GOING TO BE A MIX ON ON HOW CAPACITY FEES CAN GO INTO THAT TOOLBOX AND HELP US DELIVER THESE PROJECTS.

COLLECTIONS IN WASTEWATER OR CAPACITY FEES RANGE DEPENDING ON THE CONSTRUCTION YARD, AND HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ADDING WATER SERVICES TO OUR EXISTING SYSTEM AND MOST WASTEWATER COLLECTION.

IT COULD RANGE FROM ONE AND A HALF MILLION TO TWO AND A HALF MILLION.

BUT AGAIN, IT DEPENDS ON THE CONSTRUCTION FUNDS, AND WHERE THOSE GO.

CAPACITY FEES RIGHT NOW ARE ABOUT 3,700 FOR THE SMALLER METER SIZE, TYING INTO WASTEWATER, UP TO ALMOST 300,000 FOR THE LARGEST METER.

THE LESS CAPACITY FEES AS FAR AS OUR TOOLBOX OPTIONS ARE DEBT FINANCING.

DEBT FINANCING IS USUALLY A REALLY GOOD FUNDING MECHANISM WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LARGER INFRASTRUCTURE COSTS AND NEEDS.

THERE'S A COUPLE OF REASONS FOR THIS.

IT LOWERS THE IMMEDIATE IMPACTS IN OUR EXISTING CUSTOMERS THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE BIGGER SPIKES IN RATES IF WE CAN DEBT FINANCE SOME OF THIS UP.

ANOTHER PART IS NEW EXTENDER, AND IT GOES TO FUTURE CUSTOMERS AND THE ONES WHO WILL BE USING THE PRODUCT AND THE FACILITIES OVER LONGER PERIOD OF TIME.

YOU'RE GOING TO GET RETURN FROM FUTURE CUSTOMER. IT'S A GOOD THING.

YOU CAN GET PROJECTS IN PLACE FOR THEM RATHER THAN WAIT FOR THE FUNDING FROM PLACE, IT WOULD TAKE A WHILE TO GET THIS TYPE OF FUNDING IN PLACE.

NEGATIVES, IT HAS INTEREST COST PROJECTS.

SO THAT INCREASE ACTUAL OR TOTAL PROJECT COST, IF WE GET INTEREST TO FINANCE IT, AND WHAT WE HAVE TO PAYBACK IN FEES.

THAT'S JUST PART OF THE EQUATION.

IF WE DO A DEBT FINANCING, WE STILL HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO PAY IT BACK.

TODAY IN OUR PLANS, WE DON'T HAVE ANY FUNDING TO PAY BACK THE ITEMS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY.

WE DO NOT HAVE THAT DEBT SERVICE REDDER PER SE.

WE WOULD STILL, IF WE ISSUE DEBT, HAVE TO HAVE A USER FEE INCREASE OR A CAPACITY FEE CHANGE, THAT CAN HELP OFFSET AND PAY BACK OUR DEBT OVER TIME.

IT'S A GREAT OPTION, BUT IT DOES NEED ONE AND/OR TWO TO HELP US THROUGH THAT PROCESS.

ALSO NOTED IN HERE THAT IT MAY TAKE A CHANGE IN YOUR WATER POLICIES.

CURRENTLY, OUR POLICY FOR WATER SERVICES PLAN IS

[03:30:03]

TO NOT EXCEED 20 PERCENT DEBT TO YOUR ANNUAL OPERATING REVENUES.

WITH NUMBERS THAT WE'RE TARGETING HERE, THAT WILL BE VERY DIFFICULT TO KEEP WITHIN THAT 20 PERCENT.

WE'RE ALREADY USING THAT CAPACITY TODAY.

THERE WILL BE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHAT DOES THAT NUMBER MEAN? WHERE DO WE WANT TO GET TO IN DEPTH OBLIGATIONS GOING FORWARD? FOR WILDCAT, FOR THIS AMOUNT AND THIS NEED, I DEFINITELY WOULD SEE FINANCING AS A VERY VALUABLE OPTION FOR US.

THE DEBT, GENERALLY DO 20-YEAR DEBT, BUT WE COULD DO 30 TO MAKE IT MORE PALATABLE FOR OUR CUSTOMERS AND THE RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE TO PAY BACK THE DEBT.

THERE'S FLEXIBILITY THAT WE'RE GOING TO WORK IN WITH THAT.

BUT HOWEVER, WE STILL NEED PROBABLY ABOUT $10 MILLION IN REVENUES TO PAY DEBT SERVICE BACK.

BUT HAVING MULTIPLE TOOLS PART WITH CAPACITY, PART WITH USER FEES, YOU'LL LOWER THAT IMPACT TO THE EXISTING CUSTOMER.

YOU ADD FEDERAL FUNDING, AGAIN, YOU LOWER THE IMPACT OF PAYING THESE THINGS BACK. STORMWATER.

THE STORMWATER NEEDING MAYBE A FIVE OR 10-YEAR DEATH FOR $3.5 MILLION, YOU STILL GOING TO HAVE A RATE INCREASE TIED TO THAT.

IT MAY SPREAD THAT USERS BEATING AND MAKE IT LOWER.

BUT YOU'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE TO RAISE THESE THREE BUCKS OR SO PER AREA.

>> NEXT, PLEASE.

>> REPAYMENT OF THE DEBT.

IT HAS TO CONFRONT A REVENUE SOURCE.

IT CAN'T BE REPAID OTHER THAN THE GENERAL FUND, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THE GENERAL FUND COULD BE ERODING STORES TO PAY BACK ENTERPRISE PUMP THAT, YES.

>> OKAY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> YES. IT'S JUST WHAT IS THAT RESOURCE IN OUR ENTIRE ORGANIZATION AND HOW YOU GET THAT RESOURCE, YEAH THINK. FEDERAL STATE FUNDING.

THIS IS ONE AREA WHERE WE DO A LOT OF URBAN MANAGEMENT SERVICES.

HAD A GREAT TEAM WORKING TO BRING THE BEST BANG FOR OUR BANKS WITH FEDERAL FUNDING AND STATE FUNDING.

THIS IS ONE WHERE IT REALLY DOES LOWERING IMPACT TO OUR CUSTOMERS, DIRECT IMPACTS TO THE BUILD PAIRS.

BY FUNDING THINGS WITH FEDERAL BUDGET MAY NOT GET A 100 PERCENT FUNDED, BUT AT LEAST YOU'RE HAVING THEM PARTICIPATE OR REDUCE WHAT'S COMING OUT OF OUR POCKETS.

KEEP COMING UP AS A NEW INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, WHICH I KNOW YOU AT ALL AWARE OF THAT.

HOPEFULLY THAT GETS APPROVED IN THE NEAR FUTURE, AND I WOULD EXPECT THAT WE WANT TO FOCUS OUR ATTENTION WHEN THIS BILL COMES OUT TOWARD THESE TYPES OF PROJECTS.

THE BIG DOLLARS, THE CORE SERVICES THAT WE NEED WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY TO DELIVER SAFE WATER AND COLLECT WASTE OR PROCESSED MANAGED SCOREBOARD REALLY KEY TO OUR COMMUNITY.

WE'LL WATCH FOR THAT AND WE'LL SEE HOW WE CAN LEVERAGE FEDERAL FUNDING.

WE CAN GO THROUGH THESE THINGS, THESE ARE THE EASIER THINGS THAT JUST PUT OUT THERE AND PUT INTO TOOLBOX.

THEN WE GET TO THE ONES THAT ARE MAYBE A LITTLE MORE OF A DISCUSSION AND A CONVERSATION THAT WE'RE NOT QUITE SURE WE WANT TO GO IN THAT PROCESS AND THEN THE RED CODING, OF COURSE IT'S, NO, THESE ARE NOT RECOMMENDED OR SO.

RE-PRIORITIZING CAPITAL PROJECTS AND EQUIPMENT.

SURE, WE CAN GO THROUGH A PROCESS THROUGH A FIVE AND A 10-YEAR PLANS AND SAY, WELL, THIS ONE CAME TO A PRIORITY.

HOW DO YOU MOVE THINGS AROUND OR? BUT GENERALLY, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT A CAPITAL PLAN FOR A WATER SERVICE FUND, YOU STORE MORE WASTEWATER AND SO FORTH, THE NEEDS ARE IN THERE, YOU WON'T NECESSARILY CUT OUT YOU'RE JUST A BURN.

YOUR PROBABLY GOING TO DEFER MAINTENANCE OR REPLACEMENTS TO REPLACE IT WITH A DIFFERENT PROJECT.

THAT'S WHY THAT'S AN ORDINARY AREA BECAUSE DELAY IS NOT ALWAYS THE BEST OPTION WHEN YOU ALREADY HAVE NEEDS THAT ARE IN PLACE TO MAINTAIN, TO REPLACE AND THAT'S ON BOTH SIDES.

WE ALREADY HAVE A LIST OF STORMWATER PROJECTS THAT ARE IN THE FIVE-YEAR PLAN THAT WE WANT TO GET THROUGH THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY, DO WE WANT TO GIVE AWAY ONE OF THOSE OR DELAY WHIRLS FURTHER FOR THIS? THAT'S A TOUGH CALL. BUT AGAIN, IT'S JUST THE LANE THE NEED IS STILL THERE.

THE NEXT TIME IS GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS, WHICH IS SECONDARY PROPERTY TAX TO PAY BACK OUR DEBTS THAT WE ISSUE.

THIS ONE IS A VIABLE OPTION FOR ANY SERVICE WITHIN THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF,

[03:35:04]

ALL OF OUR ORGANIZATIONAL NEEDS CAN BE PART OF THIS, INCLUDING OUR ENTERPRISE FUNDS ARE ELIGIBLE FOR GENERAL OBLIGATION.

CURRENTLY OUR CAPACITY IS ABOUT A $100 MILLION OVER THE NEXT 20 YEARS, THAT'S THE MAX WE COULD ISSUE AND THEN WE COULDN'T BE ISSUING MORE UNTIL ABOUT 20 YEARS OUT.

THAT'S THE HIGHEST, I DO NOT RECOMMEND AND WE GET TO THAT LEVEL, BUT THERE'S CAPACITY OR THE CONVERSATION.

>> AT THE CREDIT RATING.

>> AT THE CREDIT RATING, THANK YOU.

>> SURE.

>> THAT IS THE KEY. THAT'S AT OUR CURRENT 0.8000 RATE FOR OUR TAX LEVY, WE CAN GO WELL ABOVE THAT RATE.

IF COUNSEL IS WILLING TO GO ABOVE THAT RATE AND BE FURTHER AT THE END PROBABLY CHECK TO FIX.

A GREAT POINT, THANK YOU.

OUT OF THIS, I FEEL THAT THE STORMWATER ISSUES COULD BE A VENERABLE ITEM TO BRING FORWARD IN ELECTION FOR GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS.

WASTEWATER, MAYBE NEED A LITTLE MORE TIME TO DEVELOP, BUT FIGURE OUT WHAT THE REAL BIG TICKET NUMBER IS IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE SECOND OPTION 1 OR OPTION 2, BUT THEY'RE AVAILABLE IN OUR TOOLBOX FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.

THE NEXT ITEM IS OUR GENERAL FUND SUPPORT, THIS IS ONE THAT IS JUST REALLY TIGHT EVERY YEAR.

EVERY YEAR WE HAVE A STRUGGLE TRYING TO GET FUNDING FOR EVERYTHING WE NEEDED.

BUT IT IS AN OPTION WE CAN GENERAL FUND TO SUPPORT OTHER FUNDS IN ANYWAY.

IT'S IN THE TOOLBOX, BUT IT'S REALLY UNLIKELY AND PROBABLY WOULDN'T DO A BIG PUSH TOWARDS MOVING THE NEEDLE ON THESE TYPES OF PROJECTS AT LEAST COSTS.

WE HAVE OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE NEED OR CAPITAL EQUIPMENT AND SO WE'LL TALK ABOUT THOSE A LITTLE LATER TODAY.

>> YEAH, RICK ON THE POINT.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE TRANSMITTAL LETTER OF THIS YEAR'S BUDGET AND LAST YEAR'S BUDGET, YOU'LL SEE A PIE CHART THAT SHOWS HOW GENERAL FUND IS DIVIDED UP EXPENDITURE WISE, A VERY SMALL SLIVER GOES TO CAPITAL EXPENDITURES.

I JUST WANTED TO ECHO RICK'S COMMENT, WELL, IT'S DOABLE FUNDING SOURCE ONLY IN VERY, VERY SMALL PART AT ALREADY FAIRLY HEAVILY ENCUMBERED.

>> THEN THE LAST ONE ALSO IN RED IS DOABLE.

WE CAN ISSUE SALES TAX, A PAPER, INFRASTRUCTURE, WATER, AND FUNDS LIKE THAT THROUGH A DEDICATED SALES TAX.

I'M NOT RECOMMENDING THERE IS SUCH TIME AND I'M NOT SURE IF THE COUNCIL WANTS TO CHANGE THAT FROM RED TO GREEN, BUT THAT'S AN OPTION.

IT COULD BE [NOISE] A RESOURCE IN THE FUTURE, MAYBE.

MAYBE IT'S NOT NOW, BUT WHEN WE GET TO THE $130 MILLION PROJECT, MAYBE THAT'S A TIME WHERE WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT SALES TAX.

I THOUGHT MAYBE IT'S WHEN SALES TAXES GO DOWN.

OTHER THOUGHTS, SO THERE'S MY TOOLBOX.

I HEARD COMMENTS THIS MORNING AND I REALLY APPRECIATE IS BRINGING IN REVENUE BASED ON THE DECISIONS WE MAKE.

HOW CAN WE TURN AROUND AND MAKE REVENUE OFF OF WHAT WE DO AT A WILDCAT PLANS.

THEN I FIGURED IN THE USER FEES, THE PAY-AS-YOU-GO NUMBER AND THAT'S DEFINITELY PART OF THE EQUATION THAT WE WANT TO CONSIDER AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THESE FINANCIAL PLANS.

BUT AGAIN, NO FINANCIAL PLANNING HAS BEEN DONE AT THIS TIME, SO THERE YOU GO.

THERE'S A CONVERSATION ON THE TOOLBOX AND OPEN TO HEAR YOUR DISCUSSIONS OF WHAT YOU'RE LIKE.

NO, LET'S NOT GO THERE AND WE'D APPRECIATE IT SO WE CAN BUILD THOSE IMPLANTS.

>> CRICKETS [LAUGHTER] [INAUDIBLE] [BACKGROUND] [LAUGHTER].

>> ACTUALLY LOVE PUBLIC COMMENT, THEN LUNCH.

BUT ANYWAY WE MIGHT HAVE SOME FLEXIBILITY.

[INAUDIBLE].

>> SEVERAL YEARS AGO WE PLACED ON THE BALLOTS TO UPGRADE, THINK IT WAS WILDCAT TO BE ABLE TO PRODUCE A PLUS WATER, CORRECT?

>> YEAH, 2008-ISH IF NOT BEFORE.

>> THE FLY STEP VOTERS HAVE SHOWN THAT THEY CARE, OR AT LEAST DID THEN.

I'M WONDERING WITH SOME OF THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER TODAY ABOUT ENERGY PRODUCTION OR THE WHOLE BIO SOLID CAMPUS

[03:40:06]

THAT WE COULD CREATE ON THAT SIDE OF TOWN, I GUESS I JUST PUT IT OUT THERE AS AN OPTION WHEN THINKING ABOUT WHETHER BONDS ARE SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD WANT TO ABOUT FOR WASTE WATER.

>> THERE IS A LITTLE MORE BACKGROUND TO THAT.

WE WENT FOR THAT BONDING WE ACTUALLY AUTHORIZED GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS OR REVENUE BONDS.

SHOULD THE REVENUES NOT HAVE BEEN ENOUGH IN THE WATER SERVICES FUNDS.

A SIMILAR PRODUCT TEXTS WOULD HAVE BEEN PAYING BACK DEBT AT THE TIME.

WE HAVE NOT HAD TO DIP INTO A SECONDARY PRODUCT EXIT TO PAY THAT BACK.

I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT THAT WAS A FORMAT OF THAT VALID QUESTION.

>> HOW MUCH WAS THAT VALUE WAS?

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> IT WAS IN MAY OF 2004 AND IT WAS $23.1 BILLION.

>> MAY OF 2004, $23.1BILLION?

>> YEAH.

>> [INAUDIBLE].

>> THEN WELLS WAS SEPARATE WELLS WAS $8.5.

>> WE DID WELLS FOR 8.5 MILLION? I'M JUST CAPTURING IT.

[LAUGHTER]

>> COUNCIL [INAUDIBLE].

>> YEAH. I'M SORRY IF YOU TOUCHED ON THIS, I MISSED IT.

WE JUST SAVED A LOT OF MONEY BY REFINANCING OUR PUBLIC SAFETY APPARATUS.

HOW DO WE TAP INTO SOME OF THOSE WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN FUTURE EXPENSES AGAINST THE PET SHOW? IS THAT OUR GENERAL FUND STUFF?

>> YEAH, THERE'S A SMALL PART WITH THE AIRPORT FOR THEIR PENSION COSTS, BUT THE PUBLIC SAFETY PENSION FUNDING WILL HELP FREE UP, WELL, IT FREED UP TO ABOUT $2 MILLION ANNUALLY INTO OUR GENERAL FUND.

THOSE MONIES ARE CURRENTLY BEING HELD ANNUALLY DUE TO OUR CONTINGENCY RESERVE POLICY AND THE SUSTENANCE WE HAVE AS FAR AS AN ORDINANCE ALL THAT.

WHILE WE WE ISSUED IT JUST LAST, THIS WEIRD.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HIT THAT REAL RATE.

BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE HOLDING THOSE UNTIL WE GET PAST THAT YEAR TO SEE IF OUR RATES CHANGE OR INFLUX OR IF PUBLIC SAFETY MAKES SOME DRASTIC CHANGES TO ACTUARIALS OR MARKET CHANGES.

RIGHT NOW THOSE ARE RESERVED WITHIN THE GENERAL FUND IS ONETIME FUNDING FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.

AFTER THAT, IT WAS BUILT INTO A CAPACITY OF PROVIDING MERITS AND STABILIZING OUR GENERAL ONE.

WE'VE COMMITTED THAT TO STRUCTURALLY TAKING CHAIR IF SOMETHING HAD NOT SEEN THAT PEAK THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE.

THAT'S HOW WE CURRENTLY HAVE THAT COMMITTED.

>> IT SEEMS TO ME, AND I'M A LITTLE FRUSTRATED WITH THE WAY THE INFRASTRUCTURE TALKS ARE GOING IN DC AND HOW A LOT OF THAT IS IN SUCH FLUX AND REALLY VULNERABLE TO FAILURE RIGHT NOW.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THAT IMPACTS OR BUGS THIS DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW, BUT IT SURE WOULD'VE BEEN NICE FOR THIS TO HAVE BEEN ALREADY DECIDED FOR US TO BE TALKING ABOUT IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

I JUST WANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S A SCENARIO IN WHICH THERE'S ZERO DOLLARS FROM FEDERAL INFRASTRUCTURE COMING OUR WAY ANYTIME SOON.

>> [OVERLAPPING] [INAUDIBLE].

>> I'VE STARTED TO BE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THAT TOO, BUT I TRY TO BE PRAGMATIC AT ALL TIMES.

THOSE ARE GOOD BREAKDOWN.

>> WHAT IS TYPICALLY THE MATCHING FROM FEDERAL AND STATE AID ON THESE TYPES OF PROJECTS? IS THAT FOUR TO ONE, IS IT ONE TO ONE MATCHING OR WHAT IS IT TRADITIONALLY?

>> IT'S ARRANGED, DEPENDS ON THE GRANT TYPE.

SOMETIMES WE'VE SEEN A 100 PERCENT FUNDING AND [LAUGHTER] I WILL FIGHT FOR THAT.

[LAUGHTER] OUR AIRPORT, I THINK IS 95 PERCENT FOR THOSE TYPES OF PROJECTS.

I THINK GENERALLY WE'VE SEEN 75-80 PERCENT ON LOT OF THE PROJECTS, BUT IT COULD GO DOWN FROM THERE, BUT I WOULD HOPE IT'S ABOVE 80 PERCENT WHEN WE SEE THE FUNDING COMING OUT.

>> WELL, I'LL SAY WHAT I STILL THINK WE SHOULD BE USING IS GENERAL BOND SUPPORT OR SALES TAX.

[03:45:01]

I THINK THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE TENABLE FOR THE PUBLIC RIGHT NOW, A SALES TAX FOR THIS PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO OTHERWISE REALLY TO DIVERSIFY ALL OF THESE THINGS.

WE SHOULD PURSUE IT AS SUCH.

USER FEES, CAPACITY FEES, DEBT FINANCING, WHAT FEDERAL AP CAN HAVE, AND I THINK WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT RE-PRIORITIZING EXISTING CAPITAL COSTS AND PROJECTS.

WE HERE ALSO FROM SUNNY SIDE SO OFTEN ON HOW MUCH OUR CAPITAL PROJECTS HISTORICALLY HAVE PUT THEM ON THE BACK BURNER IN THE FIRST PLACE.

NOW, RE-PRIORITIZING IT TOWARDS OUR LOWER-INCOME NEIGHBORHOOD THAT'S DISPROPORTIONALLY AFFECTED BY THIS, I THINK, IS AN APPROPRIATE WAY TO RE-APPROPRIATING [LAUGHTER] OUR FUNDING SOURCE.

I'M OPEN TO THOSE.

THE GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS, THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE A CONVERSATION I'M LESS INTERESTED IN GIVEN THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT OTHER BONDS RIGHT NOW THAT ARE IN DEVELOPMENT.

I THINK WE'RE PRETTY STRESSED ON THAT NUMBER AND I DON'T WANT TO PUT FOUR DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT.

GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS ARE BACK ON THE BALLOT OR THEY'RE ALL GOING TO FAIL.

I GUESS THAT'S WHERE I'M AT.

>> COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY.

>> I THINK I'M PRETTY MUCH IN AGREEMENT WITH WHERE MAYOR IS ON THOSE POINTS.

OBVIOUSLY, IF WE CAN GET FEDERAL OR STATE, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THAT.

BUT AS MR. ASLAN POINTED OUT, WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THERE? I THINK WE PROBABLY NEED TO CHOOSE SOME DEBT.

DEBT IS APPROPRIATE, IN MY MIND, WHEN YOU'RE PUTTING IT TOWARDS PROJECTS THAT ARE LONG-TERM, THEY'RE NOT GOOD FOR OPERATING OR WHATEVER, BUT WORKING ON OUR WATER SYSTEM THAT WILL GET US THROUGH THE NEXT 30, 40 YEARS OR WHATEVER THAT IS.

I THINK IS AN APPROPRIATE USE FOR SOME DEBT.

THEN THE QUESTION THAT RICK WAS ALSO GOING TO ASK, "WELL, HOW DO WE PAY FOR IT?" I THINK AGAIN, PHILOSOPHICALLY, THE MONEY SHOULD COME FROM THE PEOPLE THAT USE IT.

THE PEOPLE THAT USE THE WATER SYSTEM SHOULD PAY FOR IT.

THAT TRANSLATES TO USER FEES AND CAPACITY FEES IN AN APPROPRIATE PROPORTION.

OBVIOUSLY, CAPACITY FEES INCREASES THE COST OF HOUSING BUT MY PHILOSOPHY THERE IS THAT NEW CONSTRUCTION SHOULD PAY ITS OWN WAY.

IT SHOULD NOT BE SUBSIDIZED BY OTHER USERS.

BASICALLY, I SUPPORT USER FEES AND AN APPROPRIATE INCREASE IN THE CAPACITY FEES, IT'S NOT GOUGING BUT IS FAIR. THAT'S WHERE I'M AT.

>> HOUSEKEEPING MATTER. WE HAD TARGETED THIS TIME FOR PUBLIC COMMENT AND I JUST WANT TO PUT IT OUT THERE, IF THERE IS ANY PUBLIC COMMENT TO BE HEARD, THAT WOULD BE A GOOD TIME FOR THAT TO OCCUR.

WE CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION AND STACY FOBAR IS MONITORING TO SEE IF ANY COMMENTS COME IN. THANK YOU.

>> MEANWHILE, CAN I JUST PIGGYBACK OFF OF THE LAST TWO COMMENTS.

I AM PRETTY MUCH IN AGREEMENT, ALTHOUGH I WOULD ADD THAT I WOULD BE WILLING TO LOOK INTO THE IDEA OF SALES TAX FOR THESE ISSUES.

I THINK CONSTITUENTS ARE USUALLY VERY HESITANT TO EMBRACE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, UNLESS IT'S TAXATION WITH REPRESENTATION AND IT'S FOR THE RIGHT REASONS.

I THINK A CASE CAN BE MADE, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE LAST MONTH SEASON WAS SUCH A SHARED EXPERIENCE FOR THE ENTIRE TOWN.

SOMETHING LIKE THAT COULD BE FEASIBLE.

I'M WILLING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION INTO THAT.

>> I DON'T HAVE MUCH TO ADD BUT I JUST WANTED TO SAY I TOO FEEL SIMILARLY TO WHAT OTHERS HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED AND TO CAST MY REMARKS ON ADAM'S COMMENTS ABOUT SALES TAX, AT FIRST I WAS OPPOSED TO THAT IDEA, BUT I ALSO WOULDN'T NECESSARILY ALWAYS TAKE IT OUT OF THE TABLE.

THIS MIGHT BE THE SCENARIO THAT ACTUALLY DOES MAKE SENSE, BUT I DO HAVE SOME CONCERNS LIKE USER FEES GOING UP SINCE WE'VE JUST RAISED THOSE AND THE FEES THAT WE HAVE JUST RECENTLY IMPLEMENTED, BUT YEAH, I DON'T HAVE MUCH MORE TO ADD TO THE CONVERSATION.

I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S GOING TO BE A BALLOT INITIATIVE THAT WE CAN PUT ON IN 2022,

[03:50:03]

BUT FUTURE YEARS THAT PROBABLY OPENS TO THAT. THAT'S ALL.

>> AUSTIN AND THEN COUNCILMEMBER SALAS

>> GENERALLY, I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH WHAT'S BEEN SAID.

I'M OPEN TO DISCUSSING ANYTHING THAT CAN GET US WHERE WE NEED TO GET.

I JUST ASKED SO IF STAFF FOR THE NEXT TIME THAT WE TALK ABOUT BONDS ON THE BALLOT, IF YOU CAN BRINGING FORWARD INFORMATION ABOUT PAST BONDS AND WHAT WE DID BECAUSE I KNOW WE HAVE AT TIMES PLACED MANY THINGS ON THE BALLOT AT THE SAME TIME.

IF YOU COULD BRING INFORMATION ABOUT HOW THOSE DID WITH VOTERS AND HOW MANY AND HOW MUCH, I THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO THIS DISCUSSION.

>> COUNCILMEMBER SWEET.

>> THANK YOU. I AM IN AGREEMENT.

I'M WILLING TO HAVE ANY CONVERSATION BUT I'M NOT AS REALLY WANTING TO TALK ABOUT SALES TAX INCREASE FOR THE FUTURE.

BONDS, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION. THANK YOU.

>> COUNCILMEMBER SALAS [INAUDIBLE]

>> [INAUDIBLE] WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME WE HAD FEE INCREASES AND BASE STRUCTURE CHANGES ON WASTEWATER AND STORMWATER.

>> STORMWATER, LAST RATE INCREASE WAS JULY 2019.

[NOISE] AFTER WE DID THE STUDY, LAST RATE TYPE OF WASTEWATER AND WATER, WE HAD HAD FEE INCREASES IN PLACE EVERY YEAR UP THROUGH 2019, 2020.

I THINK IT'S JANUARY 2020.

BEEN IN PLACE 2016.

I GOT IT HERE, I THINK.

JANUARY 2020 WAS OUR LAST RATE INCREASE ADOPTED BY COUNCIL.

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> IT IS WHERE WE GET OUR CREATIVE THINKING HALF ON.

ALSO WILLING TO EXPLORE USER-FEE, CAPACITY FEES AND FIRMS TO AGGRESSIVELY STATE AND FEDERAL FUNDING.

>>[BACKGROUND]TRANSLATE THAT ONE FOR ME.

>> I HAD A QUESTION FOR YOU.

IF WE ISSUE BONDS, THEY WOULD BE PAID FOR BY USER FEES AND CAPACITY FEES, WILL THAT HAVE TO GO BEFORE THE VOTERS? OR IS THERE SOMETHING COUNSEL CAN DO, COUNSEL.

>> COUNSEL CAN AUTHORIZE, JUST ABOUT ANY KIND OF DEBT EXCEPT FOR GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS.

[OVERLAPPING] OR SALES TAX.

>> SALES TAX, PROPERTY TAX, [OVERLAPPING].

>> PROPERTY TAX.

>> HAS TO GO TO THE VOTERS.

>> YEP.

>> BUT IF IT'S BASED ON USER FEES AND CAPACITY FEES, COUNSEL CAN MAKE THAT DECISION?

>> CORRECT?

>> THAT MIGHT BE IN CONSIDERATION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

>> BUT IF I MAY, I THINK IT WOULD IF YOU WANTED TO FRONT-LOAD ANY OF THESE PROJECTS.

OTHERWISE, WE'RE IN A SAVING PAID STRATEGY, AND IT WILL TAKE YEARS.

GOING BACK TO STORMWATER, ACTUALLY BOTH TOPICS THIS MORNING, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE ARE AFFORDED THAT MUCH TIME.

WE GET THE DESIRES TO BUILD NOW OR SOON.

DEBT FINANCING MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.

WITH ITS GREAT NOTES AND MATRIX NECESSITATE, USER FEE AND OR CAPACITY FEE INCREASES.

WE'RE GLAD TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

I THINK IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING ON THIS, WE ARE GOING TO BE AS AGGRESSIVE AS WE CAN ON THE FEDERAL AND STATE FUNDING.

ALL EYES UPON THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, BUT IT DOESN'T END THERE.

THIS WILL BE A CONTINUOUS PURSUIT, WE'LL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO TRY TO FIND OUTSIDE FUNDING.

>> DO WE HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF SENDING OUT CERTIFICATES OF PARTICIPATION FOR OUR WATER, LIKE THIS BUILDING HERE, TO BE ABLE TO PAY FOR STORMWATER AND WASTEWATER.

>> THIS BUILDING IS ALREADY UNDER SPECIFIC APPROACHES.

[OVERLAPPING].

USE THIS ONE AS AN EXAMPLE, BUT WE PLACE A LOT OF BUILDINGS LAST YEAR WITH THE PENSION,

[03:55:07]

SO OUR INVENTORY IS LONG.

BUT YEAH, WE CAN LOOK AT CERTIFICATES OF PARTICIPATION, REVENUE, THOSE TYPES OF IPO'S. YEAH.

>> OKAY.

>> BUT ONE CONSIDERATION IS YOU DO IT ON A WATER SERVICE FACILITY, IT HAS TO BE FOR WATER SERVICES BECAUSE WHAT I WANT TO DO A CERTIFICATE THERE TO PAY FOR A COURT BILL.

>> [OVERLAPPING] YOU ARE SAYING, [OVERLAPPING] KIND OF TO DEAL WITH THE WASTEWATER? WELL, THAT SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING.

LET'S JUST SAY I'LL PAY IT BACK. YEAH.

>> ALL THE DEBT FEATURE IS STILL DETERMINED.

BARRY BONDS CERTIFICATES, THAT KIND OF STUFF.

>> YEAH.

>> THANKS.

>> YOU NEVER DO IT, TIME CHECK ON

>> REALLY QUICK, FINAL COMMENT.

WHEN WE DO LIKE GO BONDS, FUTURE CONVERSATIONS, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT GRADE LEVELS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T PUT IT IN ANY OR NOT IN 2020.

THEREFORE, THE RATE WENT DOWN FROM, SAY, 0.00836 TO 0.008.

WE'VE DROPPED THESE 36.

>> 366.

>> 366.

>> 366. YOU ARE RIGHT.

THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.

I JUST WONDER WHAT THAT DIFFERENCE WOULD LOOK LIKE IN TERMS OF THE CAPACITY.

BUT WE CAN HAVE THAT CONVERSATION IN THE FUTURE.

>> WHATEVER CALLS ABOUT SEVEN MILLION.

>> SEVEN MILLION OR 70?

>> SEVEN.

>> SEVEN. OKAY.

>> HOW MUCH?

>> ONE LESS ZERO IF YOU HOPED FOR.[LAUGHTER].

>> [NOISE] OR A COUPLE MORE.

>> YEAH. WE HAD THAT NUMBER IN APRIL. IT WAS SEVEN MILLION.

>> RIGHT. TO CHECK, ARE YOU COMFORTABLE? [OVERLAPPING].

>> I THINK WE'RE GOOD.

>> THAT WE'RE DOING WHAT WE NEEDED IT AND THEN TO STACEY, DO WE HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS?

>> I DO NOT HAVE ANY REQUESTS TO SPEAK AT THIS TIME.

>> OKAY.

>> THEN I THINK WE'RE ON SCHEDULE.

>> I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT IS 12:45 ON THE DOT, [OVERLAPPING] THE SCHEDULE THOUGH, [NOISE] WE HAVE 30 MINUTES SCHEDULED FOR LUNCH IF YOU NEED TO GO ANYWHERE FOR LUNCH OR WHAT FOR? FEEL FREE TO SERVE FOOD THAT WE'RE BRINGING IN, WE'LL HAVE IT HERE VERY SOON.

WE'RE GOOD, LET'S GO.

WE'LL START BACK AT 1:15. TO CALL THIS MEETING BACK TO ORDER. SAME PROGRAM[LAUGHTER].

>> [OVERLAPPING] THAT'S ALL.

>> IT'S ALL RIGHT.

[7. Infrastructure Retreat - Afternoon Session Presentation and Discussion Bicycle Infrastructure Public Safety Infrastructure]

>> IT'S SO COOL.

>> OKAY. FOR A KIND OF REGATHERING HERE AND ALSO AS A PREP FOR THIS AFTERNOON'S CONVERSATION, I HAVE PASSED OUT A WORKSHEET TO EVERYBODY'S, STACEY'S GOT EXTRAS, BUT I DON'T THINK WE WOULD NEED THEM.

MAKE SURE YOU'VE GOT THEM. THERE'S A SERIES OF WORDS OR PHRASES DOWN THE LEFT-HAND SIDE, AND WHAT YOU'LL SEE ON THE RIGHT IS PERCENTAGE OF TIME.

THE FIRST ONE ON THERE IS HALF OF THE TIME, AND YOUR JOB IS TO TAKE THOSE WORDS OR PHRASES IN THAT LEFT-HAND COLUMN AND TRANSLATE THEM INTO A PERCENTAGE OF TIME OF WHAT YOU MEAN WHEN YOU USE THEM, SO IF WE SAID HALF OF THE TIME, GENERALLY THAT TRANSLATES TO 50% OF THE TIME.

IF YOU SAID THE COOL, YOU'RE FUNNY HALF OF THE TIME, YOU'RE FUNNY 50 PERCENT OF THE TIME, WHICH IS GENEROUS, SO THANK YOU.

[LAUGHTER] GO AHEAD AND TAKE A COUPLE OF MINUTES AND JUST FILL OUT WHAT YOU MEAN IN TERMS OF A PERCENTAGE OF TIME WHEN YOU USE THAT WORD OR PHRASE.

NOW, YOU CAN REPEAT NUMBERS, AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO EQUAL A 100.

SOMETIMES WE SEE CRAZY THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT IT'S JUST GENERALLY, GENERALLY WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU USE THOSE WORDS OR PHRASES? [NOISE]

[04:00:06]

>> MAKE EYE CONTACT WITH ME OR GIVE ME A QUICK THUMBS UP IF YOU'RE DONE SO I KNOW YOU'RE NOT WORKING ON YOUR [LAUGHTER] SHORTLIST.

THANKS FOR THE BATMAN MASK COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY.

NO OVERTHINKING.

IF YOU'VE ONLY GOT TWO FILLED OUT YOU'RE THINKING TOO HARD.

>> [BACKGROUND] YES. [LAUGHTER]

>> [BACKGROUND] I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH, AND I'M GOING TO READ THE WORD OR PHRASE.

WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO IS JUST EVERYBODY SHOUT OUT WHAT PERCENTAGE YOU WROTE DOWN.

WE DON'T HAVE TIME FOR RAISING HANDS AND BEING POLITE, I'LL PUBLICLY SHAME YOU IF YOU DO, JUST GO AHEAD AND SHOUT IT OUT AND THEN I'LL ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FROM THERE.

MAKE SENSE? WHAT DID YOU WRITE DOWN FOR OFTEN?

>> SIXTY.

>> SIXTY, ANYBODY LOWER THAN 60 FOR OFTEN? NO HANDS RAISED. [LAUGHTER]

>> WHAT DID YOU WRITE DOWN? [OVERLAPPING]

>> 25 FOR OFTEN?

>> OFTEN, WHAT?

>> ANYBODY HIGHER THAN 70?

>> 75.

>> 75, HIGHER THAN 75?

>> 100.

>>100 FOR OFTEN?

>> I THOUGHT WE JUMPED TO ALWAYS.

>> NO, WE ARE STILL ON OFTEN.

>> RICK IS OFTEN CONFUSED.

NO, HE'S [LAUGHTER] ALWAYS CONFUSED.

>> ALWAYS.

>> EIGHTY.

>> ONE HUNDRED.

>> NINETY.

>> NINETY.

>> I HEARD 80. IS ANYBODY LOWER THAN 80 FOR ALWAYS. SOMETIMES.

>> TWENTY FIVE.

>> TWENTY.

>> TWENTY FIVE.

>> TWENTY. LOWER THAN 20?

>> THIRTY THREE.

>> 33 IS NOT LOWER THAN 20.

>> 10? [LAUGHTER]

>> FOR SOMETIMES 33.

HIGHER THAN 33.

>> HIGHER THAN 33 FOR SOMETIMES? I HAD 40.

>> FIFTY.

>> FORTY.

>> 50 FOR SOMETIMES?

>> YES.

>> WHO IS THAT?

>> I LOVE THE INVESTIGATION.

WHO SAID THAT? NEVER. ZERO.

>> ZERO.

>> ZERO.

>> TWO. DID I HEAR TWO? TWO. ANYBODY HIGHER THAN TWO?

>> THERE'S ALWAYS A TWO. [LAUGHTER].

>> MOST OF THE TIME.

>> NINETY.

>> NINETY FIVE.

>> 90. 95. HIGHER THAN 95?

>> I HAD 80.

>> THAT'S NOT HIGHER THAN 95.

LOWER THAN 80. 75? [OVERLAPPING]

>> [INAUDIBLE] 70. OCCASIONALLY.

>> FIFTEEN.

>> TWENTY FIVE.

>> FIFTEEN, LOWER THAN 15?

>> TEN.

>> 10. LOWER THAN 10? I HEARD A 30 IN THERE.

HIGHER THAN 30 FOR OCCASIONALLY?

>> THIRTY FIVE.

>> THIRTY FIVE.

>> 40. GOING ONCE.

>> WAS THAT THE CHIEF AGAIN?

>> ARE YOU JUST ONE UPPING THEM? [LAUGHTER] GIVE ME A LOT.

>> SEVENTY.

>> SEVENTY FIVE.

>> 65. LOWER THAN 65?

>> FIFTY.

>> 50. LOWER THAN 50?

>> THIRTY.

>> FORTY.

>> 30? 30 [LAUGHTER] HIGHER THAN 75?

>> EIGHTY.

>> EIGHTY.

>> EIGHTY FIVE.

>> EIGHTY FIVE. HIGHER THAN 85?

>> NINETY.

>> 90. GIVE ME RARELY.

>> FIVE.

>> FIVE. LOWER THAN 5.

>> 4.5. [LAUGHTER]

>> HIGHER THAN 10 FOR RARELY, ANYBODY HIGHER THAN 10?

>>I HAVE 15.[LAUGHTER]

>> FREQUENTLY.

>> SIXTY.

>> SIXTY FIVE.

>> SIXTY. LOWER THAN 60?

>> FIFTY.

>> FIFTY, LOWER THAN 50 FOR FREQUENTLY.

HIGHER THAN 65?

>> EIGHTY.

>> SEVENTY.

>> 80. HIGHER THAN 80?

>> EIGHTY FIVE.

>> 85, HIGHER? 85 FOR FREQUENTLY.

[LAUGHTER]

>> THAT'S A GOOD EXERCISE FOR YOU.

>> YOU FORGOT 30 OFTEN.

>> PRETTY OFTEN. WHAT DO YOU NOTICE?

>> I THINK THE POLICE CHIEF NEEDS TO RE-CALLIBRATE [LAUGHTER] AND RESIZE.

>> YEAH, WE GOT THE BIG SWINGS THERE ALWAYS.

>> YOU-ALL ARE CRAZY. [LAUGHTER]

[04:05:01]

>> EIGHTY PERCENT? ALWAYS, NEVER 0, 2 PERCENT.

>>THAT WAS CLOSE.

>>YEAH, YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE WHO USED LESS THAN FIVE.

WHAT AM I TRYING TO SAY? 5, 10, 15, 20.

>> INCREMENTS?

>> YES. THANK YOU. MATH PEOPLE.

I HAVE DONE THIS HUNDREDS OF TIMES AND THERE'S WAS ALWAYS SOMEBODY WHO SAYS TWO.

I'VE NEVER DONE IT WHERE I HAVEN'T GOTTEN A TWO, AT LEAST ONE, TWO.

YEAH. 25 PERCENT AND 75 PERCENT OFTEN, 50 PERCENT, 85 PERCENT OF THE TIME FOR FREQUENTLY.

HOW OFTEN DO WE USE THESE WORDS?

>> FREQUENTLY.

>> A LOT.

>> MOST OF THE TIME.

>> FREAK, IF YOU TELL A TEAM MEMBER, GREAT [INAUDIBLE], A PERFORMANCE EVAL OF A TEAM MEMBER AND SAYS, YOU KNOW, FREQUENTLY, ONE OF MY FAVORITE PEOPLE TO WORK WITH, AND GRACE THINKING 85 PERCENT OF THE TIME AND YOU HEAR 50 PERCENT YOU'RE LIKE WHAT? HALF THE TIME I'M NOT SOMEBODY HE LIKES TO WORK WITH? THESE ARE FUZZY WORDS.

>> EXCEPT FOR NEVER.

>> EVEN NEVER, ZERO OR TWO PERCENT OF THE TIME.

I NEVER TEXT AND DRIVE.

I ALWAYS TAKE A SHOWER.

IT'S GETTING TOO PERSONAL HERE.

BUT I LOVE THIS EXERCISE FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS.

ONE, IT DEMONSTRATES HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO BE PRECISE AND CLEAR IN OUR COMMUNICATION.

ESPECIALLY WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT PROJECTS AND BIG DOLLARS OF SPENDING AND THINGS THAT ARE PERSONALLY IMPORTANT TO US.

REMEMBER THAT WE NEED TO BE PRECISE AND IF WE DON'T KNOW, ASK FOR CLARIFICATION.

I HEARD YOU SAY THAT SOMETIMES WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB.

WAS THAT 10 PERCENT OF THE TIME IS THAT 50 PERCENT OF THE TIME? THOSE ARE DIFFERENT RESPONSE RATES.

THE OTHER THING THAT HAPPENS WITH THIS EXERCISE IS WHEN SOMEBODY THROWS OUT 80 PERCENT FOR ALWAYS AND EVERYBODY GOES WHAT, OR WHATEVER THE OTHER ONE WOULD OCCASIONALLY UP 40 PERCENT, NOT JUST 35, BUT 40 PERCENT, AND SOMEONE SAYS, HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY THINK THAT? USUALLY THE SUBTEXT OF HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY, IS YOU'RE CRAZY.

WE DON'T SAY IT OUT LOUD, USUALLY, SOME OF YOU DID, WHICH I APPRECIATE YOUR CANDOR IN THIS EXERCISE, BUT WE OFTEN THINK IT HARD.

WHAT THAT CAN DO, THAT CAN UNDERMINE HOW WE'RE COMMUNICATING WITH SOMEBODY ELSE WHEN WE GET LOST IN THAT JUDGMENT OF WHO THEY ARE AS A PERSON VERSUS STAYING FOCUSED ON WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.

JUST KEEP THAT IN YOUR BACK POCKET, ESPECIALLY AS WE COME INTO THIS AFTERNOON'S CONVERSATION.

>> COULD YOU DO THIS AGAIN LATER? [LAUGHTER]

>> WITH THAT WE ARE KICKING OFF, WHO'S OUR FIRST? WHO AM I HANDING OFF TO HERE?

>> THIS AFTERNOON WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SEPARATED BICYCLE LANE INFRASTRUCTURES, OUR FIRST TOPIC.

WHO WILL BE OUR LEAD OFF PRESENTER ON THIS?

>> I CAN TAKE IT.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> I'M HERE. CAN YOU HEAR ME?

>> YES.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BEHAVE BECAUSE OUR PRESENTER IS ON.

>> BEFORE WE GET INTO THIS, RICK, DO YOU WANT TO MAKE AN INTRODUCTION FOR EVERYBODY AS TO WHO OUR SPEAKER IS?

>> I'D BE GLAD TO.

>> THANKS RICK, I'LL JUST STAY RIGHT HERE.

WE GOT A MULTI-PRONGED APPROACH HERE FOR COUNCIL TODAY.

IT'S GOING TO START OFF WITH OUR SEPARATED BIKE LANE PROJECTS THAT YOU'RE ALL WELL AWARE OF.

BUT THEN WE'VE ALSO BEEN WORKING WITH PUBLIC WORKS AND PARKS AND RECREATION IN REGARD TO WELL, WHAT IS GOING TO TAKE TO MAINTAIN THOSE PROJECTS.

I'VE GOT JEFF BAUMAN, OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER WHO IS GOING TO LEAD OFF THE PRESENTATION.

WE ALSO HAVE MARTIN INCE OUR MULTI-MODAL TRANSPORTATION PLANNER THAT'LL GET INVOLVED.

THEN AT SOME POINT WE'LL BE HANDING IT OFF TO AMY HAGEN AND START OVER.

>> THANK YOU.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU, RICK. THIS IS JEFF BAUMAN, CITY TRAFFIC ENGINEER JOINING YOU REMOTE TODAY, I MAY ASK GOVERNOR WHO'S RUNNING THE PRESENTATION FOR CONTROL SO I CAN WAVE MY CURSOR AROUND AT SOME POINT, BUT MAYBE I WON'T NEED THAT.

WE'LL SEE IF I DO CONTROL, IF YOU COULD HELP ME WITH THAT.

THANKS RICK FOR THE INTRODUCTION.

[04:10:01]

WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT SEPARATED BIKE LANE INFRASTRUCTURE.

PERFECT. HERE'S AN OUTLINE OF WHAT WE WILL BE COVERING TODAY.

AS RICK MENTIONED, THREE OF US WILL BE PARTICIPATING IN THIS PRESENTATION.

I'M KICKING OFF THE FIRST HANDFUL OF BULLETS HERE, THEN HANDING OFF TO SCOTT AND COUNCIL AMY AND THEN MARTIN WILL BRING US BACK AT THE END TO TALK ABOUT SEPARATED BIKE-WAYS IN GENERAL AND THE FUTURE OF THE CITY PLANNING WITH THE BIKE-WAYS MASTER PLAN AND THE ACMP.

I'LL KICK IT OFF WITH BIKE FACILITIES IN GENERAL, TALK ABOUT HOW WE CHOOSE WHICH TYPES OF FACILITIES AND WHICH LOCATIONS AND DO A QUICK OVERVIEW OF THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF FACILITIES THAT WE USE AND WE WILL BE USING.

I WANT TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE ON THE PILOT PROJECTS.

THEY'VE BEEN BROKEN OUT INTO PHASES 1 AND 2.

PHASE 1 BEING BUTLER AVENUE AND PHASE 2 BEING BEAVER STREET, HAVE SOME UPDATES ON CONSTRUCTION, TIMING, COSTS AND THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.

AGAIN, KICKING IT OVER TO SCOTT FOR THE OPERATIONS PIECE AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK TOGETHER TALKING ABOUT SOME MORE IDEAS FOR OUTREACH AND EVALUATION AND A LITTLE PAUSE, FOR A DISCUSSION AT THAT POINT BEFORE WE BUMP IT BACK TO MARTIN INCE.

READY FOR THE NEXT SLIDE.

I'M NOT SURE WHO'S LUMPING THOSE.

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> IT'S SHOWING FACILITY SELECTION RIGHT NOW?

>> I SEE IT NOW. THANK YOU.

THERE WAS A BIT OF A DELAY.

THIS IS A NOMOGRAPH THAT HELPS US WITH SELECTION OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF BIKE FACILITIES.

THIS ONE HAPPENS TO BE FROM CANADA.

YOU CAN SEE ITS METRIC FOR SPEEDS BUT DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE NUMBERS, THAT'S NOT IMPORTANT FOR WHAT WE'RE JUST TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH HERE.

VERTICAL AXIS IS SPEED WITH THE LOWEST SPEED AT THE BOTTOM-LEFT AND THE HIGHER SPEED IN THE TOP-LEFT.

AVERAGE DAILY TRAFFIC OR THE NUMBER OF CARS PASSING AT ANY POINT ON THE STREET IS ALONG THAT HORIZONTAL AXIS.

LEFT, AGAIN, IS LOWEST, THEN RIGHT IS HIGHEST.

IN THAT LOW SPEED LOW VOLUME AREA, BOTTOM-LEFT IS WHERE WE WILL SELECT THINGS WITH THE LEAST AMOUNT OF BIKE FACILITY FROM TRAFFIC.

THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE SHARED LANE MARKINGS.

SOMETIMES WE CALL THEM SHARED LANES.

YOU SEE THOSE DOWNTOWN ON OUR SLOWER LOWER VOLUME STREETS LIKE ASPEN AND BIRCH AND SAN FRANCISCO AND BEAVER STREET.

SOMETIMES WE JUST USE A WIDE CURB LANE OR POTENTIALLY WE GO INTO EVEN STRIPED BIKE LANES AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE CALLING ON THIS NOMOGRAPH STANDARD LANES.

THAT WHITE AREA IN THE MIDDLE IS WHERE YOU HAVE OPTIONS WHERE IT DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH SPACE YOU HAVE.

INDIVIDUAL CHARACTERISTICS MAY BE LAND USE AND DIFFERENT THINGS.

YOU MAY PICK SOMETHING WITH SEPARATION LIKE A CYCLE TRACK OR A SEPARATED BIKE LANE, YOU MAY PICK THAT NORMAL BIKE LANE THAT WE'RE USED TO OR MAYBE AT THE BUFFERED BIKE LANE.

YOU HAVE SOME OPTIONS THERE IN THE MIDDLE ZONE AND WHEN YOU GET UP TO THE TOP RIGHT, THAT'S THE TYPE OF THING THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT ON BUTLER AVENUE WHERE WE HAVE MUCH HIGHER VOLUMES, HIGHER SPEEDS IN GENERAL COMPARED TO THE LOW SPEED ENVIRONMENT AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE LOOKING IN THE FUTURE.

AT LEAST TWO SEPARATED BIKE FACILITIES, AND THEN EVENTUALLY CYCLE TRACKS, BUFFERED BIKE LANES, AND OF SUCH.

IT MAKES SENSE I HOPE THAT WE GO FROM THE BLUE AREA MINIMAL SEPARATION, TO THE RED AREA WITH A LOT OF SEPARATION OR MAXIMUM SEPARATION.

[NOISE] NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. I WAS QUICK.

HERE IS SIX EXAMPLES OF THOSE LEAST SEPARATION FACILITIES TOP-LEFT, JUST ASSIGNED BIKE ROUTE, THERE'S NO PAVEMENT MARKINGS, NO SPECIAL MARKINGS AT ALL.

WE MAY JUST PUT UP BIKE ROUTES SIGNS TO HELP CYCLISTS FIND THEIR WAY THROUGH A NEIGHBORHOOD PERHAPS, OR SOME LOW VOLUME ENVIRONMENT.

THEN AS WE PROGRESS DOWN THAT PAGE, SHARED LANE MARKINGS AGAIN, THERE'S AN EXAMPLE.

ON-STREET BIKE LANES WOULD BE THAT NEXT LEVEL OF SEPARATION, AND THEN IF YOU JUMP OVER TO THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE, THAT BUFFERED BIKE LANES, SEPARATED BIKE LANES, WHICH IS HIGHLIGHTED BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH A PILOT PROGRAM.

THAT PARTICULAR SEPARATED BIKE LANE YOU CAN SEE IS TWO-WAY.

THOSE ARE OFTEN REFERRED TO AS CYCLE TRACKS.

THEN THE BOTTOM RIGHT IS WHAT WE REFER TO AS OFF-STREET TRAILS OR SIDEPATHS.

WHERE THE FACILITY OR TRAIL IS SO FAR AWAY FROM THE ROAD AND IN THIS CASE YOU DON'T EVEN SEE THE ROAD, OFF-STREET TRAILS OR SIDEPATHS, MOST AMOUNT OF SEPARATION.

PERFECT. THIS IS SEPARATED BIKE LANE IN

[04:15:02]

A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL AND MARTIN WILL GO THROUGH SOME OF THIS, AGAIN, A LITTLE MORE EXTENSIVELY AT THE END OF THE PRESENTATION, BUT JUST A SUMMARY OF SEPARATED BIKE LANES, SOMETIMES FOLKS CALL THEM PROTECTED BIKE LANES; THAT'S OLDER TERMINOLOGY.

WE LIKE TO CALL THEM SEPARATED BIKE LANES.

BUT AGAIN, WHEN THEY'RE TWO-WAY, THEY'RE OFTEN REFERRED TO AS CYCLE TRACKS.

HERE'S SOME JUST BASIC CHARACTERISTICS OF THESE FACILITIES, OBVIOUSLY SEPARATED FROM VEHICLES, EXCLUSIVE FOR BICYCLES, IT CAN BE ONE-WAY OR TWO-WAY.

YOUR INTERSECTION TREATMENTS ARE NOT ALWAYS THE SAME, YOU CAN BRING THESE OFF INTO A TUNNEL PERHAPS, OR AN OVERPASS OR KEEP THEM WITH THE CROSSWALKS OR EXTENSIONS OF THE ACTUAL BIKE LANES; THERE'S A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT TREATMENTS.

OBVIOUSLY MORE COMFORTABLE EXPERIENCE THAN A STANDARD BIKE LANE, AND THEY WILL BE AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF OUR FUTURE BIKE WAY NETWORK.

NOTE, THE IMPORTANT POINT HERE IS THIS ISN'T THE ONLY TREATMENT WE'LL BE USING IN THE FUTURE.

THESE WILL JUST GO ON CERTAIN TYPES OF STREETS BASED ON THAT NOMOGRAPH.

MARTIN WILL GO OVER THAT WITH SOME MAPPING HERE AT THE END OF THE PRESENTATION, BUT THIS IS THE TYPE OF FACILITY THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT WITH THE PILOT PROGRAM ON BEAVER STREET AND BUTLER AVENUE.

HERE'S A MAP OF THE BUTLER PHASE 1 PILOT PROGRAM.

WE BROKE THE PILOT PROJECT INTO TWO PIECES SO THAT WE COULD GET THE DESIGN DONE ON THE FIRST BEFORE JUMPING INTO THE SECOND.

THIS IS BUTLER PHASE 1.

I'M NOT SURE EVERYONE'S FAMILIAR WITH HOW WE BROKE THAT UP, BUT BUTLER AVENUE PHASE 1, THE MAPS SHOWS HERE ON THE WEST FROM MILTON AVENUE ALL THE WAY OVER TO [INAUDIBLE] NEXT SLIDE.

HERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THAT PHASE 1, CALLING IT SEPARATED BIKE LANES PLUS BECAUSE WE'VE ADDED A COUPLE OF EXTRA THINGS THAT AREN'T ALWAYS INCLUDED WITH SEPARATED FACILITIES.

AGAIN, BUTLER AVENUE, IT'S ALMOST A MILE IN LENGTH.

WE'RE DOING BOTH DIRECTIONS, EASTBOUND AND WESTBOUND.

OUR SEPARATION TECHNIQUE OR TYPE IS, A PARKING CURB BARRIER.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO A SEPARATED BIKE LANE.

THERE'S HORIZONTAL SEPARATION WHERE YOU USE SOMETHING LIKE A PARKING BARRIER IN BETWEEN THE TRAVEL LANES AND THE BICYCLE FACILITY.

SOMETIMES IT'S CALLED VERTICAL SEPARATION WHERE THE FACILITY ACTUALLY ENDS UP BACK OF CURB BACK BY THE SIDEWALK.

THIS IS HORIZONTAL SEPARATION.

WE'VE ADDED TWO STAGE LEFT TURN BOXES, AND I'LL DESCRIBE THAT IN AN UPCOMING SLIDE, BUT YOU CAN SEE THOSE IN THE INSET PICTURE; THOSE FOUR GREEN BOXES.

WE'VE ALSO ADDED INTERSECTION CONFLICT ZONE MARKINGS, OR SOMETIMES WE CALL THOSE CROSS BIKE MARKINGS.

THOSE ARE THE BIKE LANE EXTENSIONS THROUGH THE INTERSECTIONS, AND THE GOOD NEWS IS WE WERE ABLE TO SECURE A CONTRACTOR, A LOCAL EAGLE MOUNTAIN CONSTRUCTION.

IN AUGUST, WE SIGNED TO TASK ORDER THROUGH OUR JOB ORDER CONTRACTING PROCESS, SO GOOD NEWS ON THIS FRONT.

HERE IS WHAT TWO-STAGE LEFT TURNS ARE IF EVERYONE'S NOT FAMILIAR.

THE PURPLE LINE IS WHAT YOU WOULD TYPICALLY DO AS A CYCLIST AS YOU'RE RIDING DOWN A STREET AND IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A LEFT TURN, SO YOU WOULD WORK YOUR WAY ACROSS THAT NUMBER 1 LANE AND NUMBER 2 LANE AND INTO THAT THIRD CIRCLE IN ORDER TO MAKE YOUR LEFT TURN.

IT'S HARDER TO DO THAT WITH PROTECTED FACILITIES AND IN FACT, IT MAY BE IMPOSSIBLE IN SOME CASES BECAUSE THERE'S A BARRIER IN BETWEEN THE TRAVEL LANE AND THE BIKE LANE AND SO WE OFTEN INTRODUCE THEM.

WE HAVE WITH THIS PROJECT, THE TWO-STAGE LEFT TURN.

THAT'S THE GREEN LINE WHERE IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A LEFT TURN AS A CYCLIST, YOU WOULD STAY IN THE BIKE LANE, GO THROUGH THIS BOX MARKED CROSSWALK AND YOU'D END UP AT THAT GREEN SQUARE BY NUMBER 1, AND REPOSITION YOURSELF 90 DEGREES AND WAIT FOR THE NORTH-SOUTH TRAFFIC SIGNAL, OR IN THIS CASE, IT'S LABELED CLEVELAND AVENUE, AND THEN YOU WOULD HEAD SOUTH MAKING YOUR LEFT TURN.

YOU CAN OCCASIONALLY LEAVE A GAP IN THE BARRIERS FOR CYCLISTS TO MAKE THE LEFT TURN LIKE THE 1, 2, 3 PURPLE LINE BUT IT'S A REALLY ADVANCED MANEUVER IF YOU'VE GOT ONE LITTLE GAP IN THE BARRIER.

THIS IS A PREFERRED METHOD AND WE ARE DOING THIS UP AND DOWN BUTLER AVENUE AND BEAVER STREET THROUGH THIS PILOT PROGRAM.

THIS IS AN INSET PICTURE OF A PLAN SHEET FROM THE BUTLER PILOT PROGRAM.

A LOT OF COLORS HERE, THE GREEN AND THE RED LINES ARE THE STRIPING.

I BELIEVE RED IS THE REMOVALS AND GREEN IS THE NEW LINE, IT'S HARD TO TELL THE SCALE, BUT YOU CAN SEE THE GREEN LINES ARE MOVING INTO THE TRAVEL LANE PROVIDING A LITTLE MORE SPACE FOR THE BIKE LANE.

BUT WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT ON THIS SLIDE IS THE BLACK LINES AND HOPEFULLY, YOU CAN SEE IT THERE ON THE DISPLAY.

[04:20:01]

THE BLACK LINES ARE WHERE THE BARRIERS WILL BE PLACED.

ALL OF THESE SHOW REALLY PRETTY PICTURES OF THE CONTINUOUS BARRIER AND A CYCLIST SMILING BUT IN REALITY, IN THE URBAN ENVIRONMENT, WE HAVE LOTS OF THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO CAUSE US NOT TO HAVE CONTINUOUS BARRIERS.

IN THIS PICTURE, IF YOU LOOK ALONG THE NORTH CURB LINE, YOU SEE GAPS AT DRIVEWAYS, YOU SEE GAPS IN THE BARRIER, WHAT'S LABELED AS A BUS STOP ALONG THAT SOUTH CURB, YOU CAN SEE THERE'S A BARRIER GAP AT [INAUDIBLE] SO PEOPLE CAN TURN IN AND OUT OF REGION.

THEN A SHORT BARRIER SECTION, A GAP FOR THE BUS STOP, ANOTHER BARRIER, ANOTHER GAP, ANOTHER BARRIER.

THIS IS THE WAY IT'S GOING TO BE UP AND DOWN BUTLER AND BEAVER STREET AS WE ACCOMMODATE EXISTING DRIVEWAYS AND BUS STOPS AND OTHER REASONS THAT WE NEED TO HAVE BREAKS AND THE BARRIERS.

I JUST WANTED TO SHOW THIS PICTURE.

THIS IS TYPICAL OF SOMEWHERE UP AND DOWN BUTLER AVENUE, JUST SO THAT NOBODY IS SURPRISED WHEN WE GO INSTALL THEM AND THERE'S A BUNCH OF GAPS.

THERE'S REASONS FOR ALL OF THESE GAPS.

HERE'S A BIT OF A WRAP-UP ON BUTLER AVENUE AND THE PILOT PROGRAMS IN GENERAL.

WE RECEIVED COUNSEL DIRECTION ON JULY 6.

[NOISE] THIS WAS PRETTY FUN, IN TRANSPORTATION ENGINEERING, WE DID THE DESIGN INTERNALLY, WHICH WE DON'T ALWAYS GET TO DO, BUT IT WAS QUICKER TO DO IT THIS WAY.

WE DEVELOPED CONCEPTS AND COMPLETED THE DESIGN.

BY ABOUT THE END OF THE MONTH, WE WERE ABLE TO BID OVER A TWO-WEEK PERIOD IN MID-AUGUST.

AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, EAGLE MOUNTAIN CONSTRUCTION WAS THE SUCCESSFUL BIDDER.

WE SIGNED A TASK ORDER WITH THEM IN EARLY SEPTEMBER AND THAT IS THE COST ESTIMATE FOR THE BUTLER AVENUE PIECE, $538,650.

CURRENT STATUS ON THAT.

YOU CAN SEE AT THE BOTTOM MATERIALS HAD BEEN ORDERED, SUB-CONTRACTORS LIKE THE PAVEMENT OBLITERATION AND THE PAVEMENT MARKINGS AND THE PAVEMENT STRIPING, FOLKS ARE STARTING TO GET SCHEDULED OUT.

IT SOUNDS LIKE OCTOBER, NOVEMBER RUNNING INTO DECEMBER IS THE WAY THIS IS GOING TO SHAKEOUT.

SEVEN HUNDRED AND SEVENTY FIVE PARKING CURVES.

IT SEEMS LIKE A STANDARD THING.

YOU SEE THEM ALL OVER TOWN, WAS A REAL CHALLENGE.

CONTRACTOR WAS LOOKING AT MAKING THEM THEMSELVES, LOOKED TO SOURCE THEM LOCALLY, ENDED UP SOURCING THEM FROM A COMPANY CALLED [INAUDIBLE] I BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE COMING FROM PENNSYLVANIA OF ALL PLACES THOUGH.

REAL CHALLENGE TO GET ALMOST 800 CURBS AND THAT'S JUST THE BUTLER SECTION, I THINK THERE'S ANOTHER THREE OR 400 FOR THE BEAVER STREET SECTION.

THOSE WILL BE COMING IN, BUT THAT WAS A REAL CHALLENGE TO GET ALL THOSE PARTS ORDERED.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

[BACKGROUND] PHASE 2.

AS SOON AS WE TURNED OVER THE DESIGN TO THE CAPITAL TEAM AND THE PROCUREMENT FOLKS TO GET GOING ON BUTLER AVENUE, WE STARTED THE DESIGN ON BEAVER STREET.

HERE'S THE LIMITS OF THE BEAVER STREET PHASE 2 PILOT.

YOU CAN SEE NORTH IS TO THE RIGHT, AND THAT'S FOREST AVENUE AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE WHICH IS THE RIGHT AND AT THE SOUTHERN END, BUTLER AVENUE.

FOR THE BETTER INFORMATION ABOUT THE BEAVER STREET PIECE, IT'S ABOUT 1.2 MILES.

THE SECTION, AS EVERYBODY KNOWS, ON BEAVER STREET NORTH OF COLUMBUS AVENUE IS TWO-WAY.

WE HAVE SEPARATED BIKE FACILITIES, WHERE THEY FIT AGAIN AND WHERE THERE'S IN DRIVEWAYS ON THAT NORTHERN SECTION.

THAT BECOMES A ONE-WAY OF FACILITIES SOUTH OF COLUMBUS, JUST AS THE BIKE LANE IS TODAY.

AGAIN, WE ARE USING PARKING CURB BARRIERS WHERE WE CAN.

TWO-STAGE LEFT TURN BOXES ARE BEING PROVIDED WHERE THAT APPLIES.

INTERSECTION CONFLICT ZONE MARKINGS OR CROSS-BIKE MARKINGS.

IN THIS IMAGE YOU CAN SEE WE'RE GOING TO ADD GREEN TO THAT BIKE LANE STAGING AREA BETWEEN THE RIGHT TURN LANE AND THROUGH TRAVEL LANES ON BEAVER STREET AT 366, RIGHT BEFORE WE CROSS THE TRACKS.

SAME KIND OF EXAMPLE, AGAIN, THE REALLY COOL PICTURE ON THE LEFT THAT SHOWS THE CONTINUOUS BARRIER.

LOTS OF THE CANDLESTICK MARKERS AS IT LOOKS SIMILAR.

I DON'T THINK WE HAVE QUITE THAT DENSITY OF CANDLESTICKS, BUT THERE WILL BE ENOUGH TO STEER IT QUITE WELL.

BUT AGAIN, BEAVER STREET HAS THE SAME THINGS THAT BUTLER HAS, OF COURSE.

THE BLACK LINE IS THE BARRIER.

YOU CAN SEE THOSE RED GREEN SPOTS WHERE THERE ISN'T BLACK LINES AND THOSE ARE BREAKS IN THAT BARRIER SO THAT WE CAN MAINTAIN DRIVEWAY ACCESS TO EACH OF THOSE BUSINESS, AND I BELIEVE THERE'S EVEN A BUS STOP THERE AT THE TURN ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE PAGE.

AGAIN, JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT'S GOING ON AND IS AWARE WHEN THIS SHOWS UP IN THE STREET, THAT IT WON'T BE A CONTINUOUS RUN OF BARRIERS LIKE WE SEE IN THE PHOTOS THAT WE'RE ALWAYS PROVIDING AS EXAMPLES.

THANK YOU. THE CONTRACT HAS BEEN AWARDED NOW FOR PHASE 2.

WE ALSO DID THE DESIGN,

[04:25:02]

GOT THAT OVER TO EAGLE MOUNTAIN CONSTRUCTION.

WE'RE IN PROCESS AND I THINK I SAW AN EMAIL ACTUALLY THIS MORNING WHERE WE ARE FINISHING UP MAKING THAT CHANGE ORDER SO THAT PHASE 2, WHICH IS BEAVER STREET IS INCLUDED IN THE OVERALL PROJECT.

WHEN I PUT THIS SLIDE TOGETHER, WE HAD 350,000 FOR A COST ESTIMATE.

I THINK I SAW TODAY THE ACTUAL NUMBER IS 353 FOR THE BEAVER STREET PIECE.

EAGLE MOUNTAIN CONSTRUCTION HAS MODIFIED THEIR ORDERS AND THEIR COORDINATION WITH THE SUBCONTRACTORS SO THAT BOTH OF THESE PROJECT WILL BE COMPLETED HOPEFULLY BEFORE DECEMBER, BUT BY DECEMBER OF 2021.

350,000 FOR BEAVER STREET AND A LITTLE OVER 500 ON BUTLER AVENUE.

SO ABOUT $900,000 TOTAL FOR THE CONSTRUCTION PHASE OF THESE TWO PRIMARY PROGRAMS. WITH THAT, IT'S SCOTT'S TURN.

>> YEAH, THANKS JEFF. I KNOW WE DO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR QUESTIONS.

DID YOU WANT TO TAKE ANY ON THE DESIGN AT THIS POINT OR JUST HOLD OFF TILL AFTER OPERATIONS?

>> I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS NOW OR I CAN WAIT TILL WE HAVE THAT DISCUSSION SLIDE HEARING IN 10 SLIDES OR SO.

>> I GUESS I'LL LEAVE IT TO THIS GROUP.

DO YOU GUYS WANT TO TALK ABOUT CONSTRUCTION BEFORE WE TALK MAINTENANCE?

>> YEAH.

>> YEAH, THEY HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS POSSIBLY, JEFF WILL TRY TO HELP [INAUDIBLE]. NICOLE, DID YOU WANT TO?

>> YES, [INAUDIBLE].

>> THIS IS NOT THE SIGNAL GIVING PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS THE RIGHT OF WAY FIRST RATHER THAN THE CYCLIST GO THROUGH TWO CROSSINGS.

WILL THAT MAKE ANY SENSE OR NOT REALLY.

>> IT WOULD ACTUALLY WORK EXACTLY THE SAME.

IF YOU'RE A CYCLIST COMING DOWN BUTLER AVENUE, WE'LL IMAGINE THIS IS WEST BOUND IN THIS EXHIBIT, AND YOU WERE APPROACHING THE STOP BAR.

IN ORDER TO HAVE PRIORITY, ALL THE PHASES WOULD HAVE TO STOP, RIGHT? WHOEVER HAD THE GREEN FOR VEHICLES, EVERYONE WOULD HAVE TO STOP AND THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE A SPECIAL PHASE FOR THE BIKE TO TURN LEFT.

THAT WOULD ESSENTIALLY HAPPEN AT THE SAME TIME, UNLESS WE TRUNCATED WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

WOULD HAPPEN AT THE SAME TIME AS THIS MANEUVER BECAUSE THIS MANEUVER WOULD BE THE NEXT PHASE ALSO.

IF YOU WALKED YOUR WAY ACROSS THE STREET AND WAITED FOR THE SOUTHBOUND GREEN, IT WOULD BE THE NEXT PHASE SERVED.

THEY'RE VERY SIMILAR.

>> I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. ANOTHER QUESTION IS, IN REGARDS TO THE WIDTH OF THE BIKE LANE KEY, TELL ME SPECIFICALLY HOW WIDE WE'RE PLANNING BUILD THE BIKE LANES?

>> YES. IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, WE'RE SHOOTING FOR SIX FEET CLEAR EVERYWHERE BETWEEN THE BARRIER AND THAT OUTSIDE EDGE.

I THINK WE DID HIT A FEW SPOTS WHERE WE HAVE 5.5 FEET CLEAR, BUT TYPICALLY WE'RE AT SIX FEET CLEAR.

>> VERY GOOD. THANK YOU.

>> COUNCILOR [INAUDIBLE].

>> [INAUDIBLE] HI, JEFF.

>> HI.

>> I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK THROUGH SOME OF THIS WITH THE BARRIERS NOT BEING CONTINUOUS.

THE REASON FOR THAT IS SO THAT CARS CAN COME AND GO, EITHER MAKING RIGHT TURNS OR FOR THE BUS, TO GET ON THE BUS LANE.

I'M SURE YOU'VE SEEN THIS. BUT HOW DOES IT WORK WHEN THERE'S A BIKE COMING AND SOMEONE'S GETTING READY TO MAKE THE RIGHT TURN? HOW DOES THAT WORK OUT FOR THE CYCLIST, AND IF THERE'S CANDLE STICKS THERE, DOES THAT CREATE A VISUAL IMPEDIMENT TO THE DRIVER SEEING THE BICYCLIST? HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF ANY SCENARIOS OF DRIVERS MAKING RIGHT TURNS INTO CYCLISTS?

>> YEAH. I MEAN THAT, I DON'T THINK IT CHANGES, BUT IT DOES NOT CHANGE MUCH THE CONDITION THAT WE HAVE TODAY.

THE CANDLESTICKS WILL NOT BE SO DENSE THAT THERE'S A NEW VISUAL ISSUE, A NEW VISIBILITY CONCERN.

BUT CERTAINLY, YES.

A S A CYCLIST, EVERY TIME YOU CROSS ONE OF THESE CONFLICT POINTS TODAY AND WITH THIS SEPARATED BIKE FACILITY, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION THOSE CONFLICTS EXIST.

IT ACTUALLY DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY BETTER OR WORSE IN MY OPINION, WHEN YOU HAVE ALL OF THESE DRIVEWAY CONFLICTS FROM THE CONDITION TODAY.

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> JUST BECAUSE TYPICAL CYCLISTS FIND INVOLVED INTO A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY BEING IN THE BARRICADE.

ANYWAY, I'M JUST THINKING OUT LOUD AND I'M NOT ADVERSE TO THE STRATEGY.

I WAS JUST TRYING TO THINK THROUGH SOME OF THAT.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOUR SENSE OF AWARENESS IS GOING TO BE THE MORE HYPED BECAUSE SOMETIMES YOU'RE SAFE AND OTHER TIMES YOU'RE AT ADDITIONAL EXPOSURE.

WHEREAS WITHOUT THE BARRIERS YOU'RE JUST ALWAYS CONSTANTLY EXPOSED.

JUST THE THOUGHT. JUST THINKING OUT LOUD.

[04:30:03]

>> YEAH, I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.

I HAVE NOT RUN INTO THAT CONCERN, BUT I WILL LOOK FOR IT NOW AND SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING IN THE LITERATURE ABOUT THAT.

THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT WHAT WE PLAN TO DO FOR OUTREACH TOWARDS THE END OF THIS PRESENTATION.

ONE OF THE IDEAS IS A BIT OF A SURVEY, PEOPLE'S EXPERIENCES ON THE FACILITY. THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

DO YOU FEEL LIKE IT WAS LESS SAFE OR DID YOU ACTUALLY HAVE MORE CONFLICTS AT THESE LOCATIONS? THAT'S A THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION FOR US TO ASK AS PART OF THE PILOT PROGRAM.

>> REAR-END COLLISIONS AS SOMEONE'S GOING TO MAKE THE RIGHT TURN, BUT HAS TO STOP FOR A CYCLIST.

AGAIN, THAT'S THE SORT OF [INAUDIBLE] THAT ALREADY EXISTS, BUT NOBODY IS GOING TO BE USED TO THIS NEW SCENARIOS THAT MIGHT CREATE A VISUAL USER.

>> COUNCIL MEMBERS, [INAUDIBLE] ARE GOING TO ADDRESS THIS LATER.

BUT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THERE'S A GOOD PUBLIC OUTREACH ON THIS.

VIDEOS MAYBE SHOWING HOW TO DO THAT DOUBLE WORK IN TURN.

VIDEOS SHOWING HOW SAFETY DEVICE FOR [INAUDIBLE] I THINK THAT'LL BE IMPORTANT TO ALERT THE COMMUNITY THAT THERE'S SOME MAJOR CHANGES HAPPENING. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> OKAY.

>> WITH THAT JEFF WE KNOW THERE'LL BE SOME MORE QUESTIONS BUT THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT OF COURSE AT THE DIRECTION ON COUNCIL ENGINEERING AND PUBLIC WORKS STARTED OUR CONVERSATIONS ALMOST IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING YOUR CONVERSATIONS, NOT ONLY ONE.

HOW TO CREATE A PILOT PROJECT THAT WAS FEASIBLE IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME WITH A LIMITED AMOUNT OF PHYSICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.

BUT HOW EXACTLY ARE WE GOING TO SERVICE IT AND HOW ARE WE GOING TO MAINTAIN IT IN ITS PILOT STATE AND PROVIDE OURSELVES SOME GOOD FEEDBACK OF EXACTLY WHAT IT WILL MEAN TO HAVE A SEPARATED BIKE LANE IN A TRAVEL LANE.

WHAT ARE THE PROS, CONS, AND DIFFERENCE AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.

BUT WE KNEW RIGHT OFF THE BAT, PUBLIC WORKS HAD A CHALLENGE AND WE DON'T NECESSARILY STEER AWAY FROM CHALLENGES WE TEND TO CARE FOR THEM AND WE LIKE THEM.

WE HUDDLED IN THIS ROOM AND WE STARTED BRAINSTORMING DIFFERENT STRATEGIES FOR WHAT WE CONSIDER PROBABLY THE MOST LIKELY SCENARIOS OF NEEDED MAINTENANCE.

ONE, WE HAVE GENERAL UPKEEP OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE SO IF A CURB WERE TO GET WIPED OUT OR IF THE CANDLESTICK WERE TO GET HIT OR DAMAGED, MAYBE AN ATTORNEY MOVEMENT OR AN ERRANT CAR, HOW DO WE MAINTAIN ENOUGH INVENTORY TO MAINTAIN THAT PHYSICAL INFRASTRUCTURE? HOW DO WE ANCHOR THIS INFRASTRUCTURE TO THE GROUND TO WHERE IT WON'T BE REMOVED BY A PLOW OR BY MAYBE A VEHICLE ACCIDENT.

SO ENGINEERING SORTED THROUGH A LOT OF THAT AND WE'VE CREATED AND COME UP WITH I THINK PROBABLY THE BEST WE CAN DO FOR PILOT.

BUT THEN WE ALSO STARTED THINKING ABOUT THE NEXT LIKELY ISSUES WHICH OF COURSE ARE SNOW REMOVAL, SWEEPING, AND THE MARKINGS UPKEEP AND THE SIGNAGE UPKEEP.

MY FEW SLIDES ARE GOING TO TALK THROUGH SOME OF THOSE THINGS, WE DID TALK TO A NUMBER OF CITIES, WE TALKED TO OTHER AREAS.

AMY, IF I GET YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

ONE THING WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT FOR JUST A SECOND IS NOT ONLY DID WE TALKED TO THESE OTHER CITIES AND COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE SIMILAR INFRASTRUCTURES BUT IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND BOTH OF THESE SEGMENTS HAVE A LEVEL OF SERVICE TODAY THAT IS MEANINGFUL.

A LOT OF MY COMMENTS WILL FOCUS ON SNOW OPERATIONS AND SWEEPING OPERATIONS BECAUSE THESE ARE THE LIKELY EVENTS THAT WILL IMPACT THIS INFRASTRUCTURE THE MOST.

TODAY ON BOTH OF THESE ROUTES, BOTH BUTLER AND THE BEAVER STREET PIECE PILOT 1 AND 2, THEY ARE DEDICATED PRIORITY 1 SNOW PLOW ROUTES.

YOU WILL SEE A SNOW OPERATIONS APPARATUS, WHETHER THAT'S A PLOW TRUCK OR A ROAD GRADER OR A SINGER TRUCK LITERALLY AT ALL TIME DURING A WINTER STORM EVENT IN THIS AREA.

NOW, THAT PIECE OF EQUIPMENT MAY BE DISPATCHED TO AN ENTIRE AREA.

IN FACT, BUTLER HAS A PLOW TRUCK ROUTE DEDICATED BUT IT ALSO COVERS 24 ADDITIONAL MILES TODAY.

SO NOT ONLY THE MILE OF THE PILOT PROJECTS ON EACH SIDE BUT ABOUT 24 ADDITIONAL MILES.

BUT IN A PRIORITY 1 ROUTE IF YOU RECALL FROM ALL YOUR SNOW HISTORY I'VE GIVEN YOU AND I'M GETTING READY TO GIVE YOU AGAIN NEXT MONTH, PRIORITY 1 SERVICE IS A BIKE ROUTE A HILL DOWNTOWN, A MAIN ARTERIAL AND SOON AS IT STARTS SNOWING YOU'LL SEE ACTIVITY.

IT IS OPEN AND PASSABLE AT ALL TIMES.

SO WE TOOK THAT SAME THINKING AND APPLIED IT TO THIS NEW INFRASTRUCTURE IN A SEPARATED BIKE LANE, KNOWING THAT THERE'S AN EXPECTATION THAT IF YOU CAN TAKE YOUR CAR DOWN BUTLER, IF WE HAD A SEPARATED BIKE LANE, WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE TO DELIVER THE EXACT SAME LEVEL OF SERVICE FOR THIS INFRASTRUCTURE? THE DIFFICULTY IS AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, WE DON'T DO THIS.

[04:35:05]

IT'S A NEW SERVICE.

WE HAD TO LOOK AT EQUIPMENT, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW WE TREAT THESE AREAS, THINK ABOUT HOW WE MOVE THE PRODUCT AND IN THE CURRENT OPERATION, WE PLOW.

YOU'RE ALL VERY FAMILIAR WITH IT.

THERE IS NO TRUE DEDICATED BIKE LANE PLOWING OPERATION.

WE PLOW FROM LEFT TO RIGHT, IS THAT BEST PATTERN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD TO THE EDGE OF THE ROAD.

WE PLOW OFF AS MUCH OF THE ROAD AS POSSIBLE AS FAR AS POSSIBLE.

WHY I SAY AS FAR AS POSSIBLE IS IF YOU WERE DRIVING DOWN SLOWLY HERE YOU'RE GOING TO SEE WE'LL PUSH SNOW COMPLETELY OFF THE ROADWAY, INCLUDING THE BIKE LANE, INCLUDING ANY SHOULDER AREA, AND WE GET THE SNOW COMPLETELY OFF THE ROADWAY.

IN BUTLER AND EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE, MUCH, MUCH MORE DIFFICULT BECAUSE WE ALSO HAVE ADJACENT BUSINESSES, PROPERTY OWNERS, AND ADJACENT PEDESTRIAN INFRASTRUCTURE OF SIDEWALK, DRIVEWAY ENTRANCES, A STRIPED BIKE LANE TODAY, AND THEN TWO TRAVEL LANES BOTH EAST AND WEST.

IN ADDITION, THE TURN LANES, THE MEDIAN AND EACH SIGNAL INTERSECTION.

WHEN WE PLOW TODAY, IT'S FROM MIDDLE OUT.

WITHOUT PUTTING PRODUCTS OR SNOW ONTO THE PEDESTRIAN INFRASTRUCTURE.

WE LEAVE IT SHORT, NORMALLY IT'S IN THE GUTTER PAN BUT IT DOES START TO GO INTO THE BIKE LANE AS WE HAVE MORE ACCUMULATION.

THEN WE UTILIZE ICE CINDERS OF COURSE FOR TRACTION CONTROL, PRIMARILY SHADED SPOTS, INTERSECTIONS, CURVES, AND ANY TROUBLE AREAS WITHIN THAT ROUTE.

BUT A LOT OF THE AREAS ALONG BOTH OF THESE PILOTS ARE GOING TO SEE AND UTILIZE ICE SENDERS.

THEN IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER ALL DIFFERENT SNOW EVENTS.

PRIORITY 1 ROUTE, IT COULD BE AN ICE ISSUE.

IT COULD BE TWO INCHES OF SNOW, SIX INCHES OF SNOW, THREE FEET OF SNOW.

THESE ROUTES BOTH GET CONTINUAL PRIORITY 1 SERVICE REGARDLESS OF THE STORM EVENT.

THANK YOU AMY, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

THIS IS A PRETTY AWESOME GRAPHIC.

[LAUGHTER] THIS IS SOME HIGGINS FINER WORK.

[LAUGHTER] THE SMALL WORKING GROUP WHICH I'M GOING TO INTRODUCE AS WELL, I KNOW ONE OF MY SLIDES HERE SPENDS A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME TRYING TO DEVELOP GRAPHICS.

AMY SPENT ABOUT FOUR SECONDS WITH [LAUGHTER] A ETCH-A-SKETCH AND GAVE US WHAT WE CONSIDERED THE BEST IMAGE WE HAVE IN THE PRESENTATION.

BUT IT DOES DO A VERY GOOD JOB OF DEMONSTRATING WHAT WE COULD SEE AS A LIKELY SCENARIO.

LET ME JUST WALK YOU THROUGH THIS IN ALL SERIOUSNESS.

WE ARE GOING TO CHANGE THE WAY WE PROVIDES SNOW OPERATIONS.

THIS EFFORT PRIMARILY WAS LED BY WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER OUR FRONT-LINE PEOPLE.

SO ONE OF OUR STREETS WEST-SIDE SNOW OPERATION SUPERVISOR [INAUDIBLE] .

HE OVERSEES OUR SIGNS AND MARKINGS PROGRAM.

HIMSELF AND AMY AND A COUPLE OF TEAM MEMBERS FROM PARKS GOT TOGETHER AND WE REALLY SAID, PLEASE DEVELOP THE STRATEGY FOR THIS NEW OPERATION AND REBECCA THOUGHT WE WERE CRAZY TRYING TO FIGURE THIS ALL OUT BUT THEY REALLY DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB.

BUT I WILL TELL YOU, THEY DIDN'T COME TO THIS DECISION LIGHTLY AND THEY'VE HAD A LOT OF CRITICISM SINCE BECAUSE IT'S A MUCH DIFFERENT TYPE OF OPERATION AND IT'S GOING TO FEEL AND LOOK VERY DIFFERENT TO OUR COMMUNITY.

WE WILL GET TO THE OUTREACH PIECE THAT YOU WERE SPEAKING OF.

BUT IN YOUR MIND IF YOU COULD LOOK AT THE CROSS SECTION ON THE SCREEN YOU'LL SEE TO TRAVEL LANES AND THOSE COULD BE EAST OR WEST.

THOSE VEHICLES WOULD REPRESENT THE TRAVEL LANE.

THEN THE ONE-FOOT BARRIER IS THE CURVE AND THE CANDLESTICK IN BETWEEN THE VEHICLE AND THE BICYCLE.

YOU HAVE THE BICYCLE INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE SEPARATED BIKE LANE AND THEN OF COURSE THE PEDESTRIAN INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S IN PLACE TODAY.

WE WOULD TYPICALLY MOVE THE SNOW TOWARDS THAT GUTTER PAN OR TOWARDS THAT TWO FOOT MARK.

WE ARE GOING TO REVERSE OUR OPERATIONS IN THESE LOCATIONS.

WE'RE NOW GOING TO TAKE MATERIAL FROM THE RIGHT TO THE LEFT AND THE DIFFICULTY IN THIS IS WE HAVE A SEPARATED CURB FIVE FEET FROM THE VERTICAL CURVE.

WITHOUT OVER-COMPLICATING THIS, WE'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO TAKE SNOW OVER THAT BARRIER INTO THE SLOW LANE AND THEN FROM THE SLOW LANE ALL THE WAY TO THE MEDIAN.

[NOISE] WELL, GO BACK ONE.

SORRY. I'LL SHOW YOU THIS EQUIPMENT IN A MINUTE BUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO PROPOSE AND I THINK THIS IS OUR BEST STRATEGY AT LEAST DURING THE PILOT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THIS AS WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LARGE SNOW THROWER AND WE'LL SHOW YOU SOME IMAGES OF THIS, DRIVE IT DOWN THE BIKE LANE, LITERALLY THROW THE SNOW NOT ON TO THE PEDESTRIAN INFRASTRUCTURE AND NOT ONTO THE ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER BUT ACTUALLY INTO THE SLOW LANE.

SO WHERE WE WOULD NORMALLY SEE A BERM OR A WIND ROW AT THE CURB, YOU WILL NOW SEE AT DEEP CURVE OF THE SEPARATED BIKE LANE.

[04:40:03]

THEN TWO OF OUR MOST SKILLED OPERATORS ON THE STREET SIDE WILL THEN TAKE THE MATERIAL FROM THAT LOCATION AND SHIFT IT TO THE LEFT OR TOWARDS THE MEDIAN IN A TWO LANE PASS DEPENDING ON SNOW ANNOUNCED, THAT COULD INCREASE.

BUT IN A GENERAL STORM LET'S SAY THEY CAN COMPLETE THAT IN TWO PASSES AND THEN THEY START STACKING SNOW IN THE MIDDLE OR IN THE MEDIAN LOCATIONS.

AMY IS DRAWING PRIDE PICS.

I DON'T KNOW, 6-9 INCHES OF SNOW.

NOW, WHO KNOWS? I WANTED TWO INCH STORM, IT'S GOING TO BE PRETTY EASY TO LOCATE IT INTO THE MEDIAN.

AS WE GET INTO THE SIX INCH AND PLUS WE'RE GOING TO START TO SEE THIS MOUNTAIN OF SNOW BUILD IN THE MEDIAN.

ONE OF THE MAJOR TAKEAWAYS AND MAJOR CONS OF THIS OPERATION THAT WE'RE GOING TO START EATING INTO THE FAST LANE WITH MATERIAL.

SO WHAT USED TO BE IN THE BIKE LANE IS NOW GOING TO LIKELY BE IN THE FAST LANE AND START TO CONSTRICT AND MAYBE EVEN REDUCE TRAFFIC TO ONE TRAVEL LANE IN EACH DIRECTION.

SO FOR A HEADS UP IN A LARGE EVENT, WE LITERALLY COULD BE DOWN TO ONE TRAVELING IN EACH DIRECTION ON BUTLER AND THAT IS GOING TO BE A SIGNIFICANT TRADE OFF THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CONSIDERING AND MAKE SURE THE PUBLIC IS UNDERSTANDING OF.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. THE EQUIPMENT I WAS SPEAKING OF THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF A TOOL CAT AND THIS IS A BAD CAT PRODUCT.

IT'S A UTV OR A UTILITY VEHICLE.

PARKS ACTUALLY OWNS ONE OF THESE, IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS THEY'VE RECEIVED AND TAKEN DELIVERY OF THIS.

THEY DO NOT HAVE THE SNOW DRAWER ATTACHMENT, OR DO YOU? [INAUDIBLE].

GOT YOU.

THIS PIECE OF EQUIPMENT WAS PURCHASED IN LAST YEAR'S BUDGET AND IT'S ACTUALLY AN ADDITIONAL PIECE OF FLEET THAT THEY'LL UTILIZE ON THE EXISTING SYSTEMS THAT THEY MAINTAIN BECAUSE PARKS MAINTAINS OUR SIDEWALKS AND OUR FOOT'S TRAILS.

AFTER MOVING THE SNOW FROM THE BIKE LANE INTO THE SLOW LANE, WE USE OUR TRADITIONAL PLOW TRUCKS TO MOVE IT FROM RIGHT TO LEFT AND THEN WHEN WE DO ACCUMULATE ENOUGH SNOW IN THE MEDIAN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO A SNOW REMOVAL OPERATION.

WHEN THOSE LANES START TO BECOME CONSTRICTED, WE'LL HAVE TO BRING IN THE LARGE BLOWER TRUCK WHICH WE HAVE HERE IN THE STREETS FLEET, PHYSICALLY MOVE THE MATERIAL BACK OUT OF THE MEDIAN INTO THE TRAVEL LANES AND THEN WE'LL LOAD IT INTO TRUCKS AND HAUL IT OUT.

WE TYPICALLY DO THIS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.

HERE'S A PICTURE FROM LAST SEASON WHERE WE DID SNOW REMOVAL IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

IN THE OVERNIGHT HOURS WE REMOVE ALL THE SNOW FROM THE PARKING STALLS, PUT IT IN TRUCKS AND HAUL IT OFF.

VERY LABOR INTENSIVE BUT WE ARE LIKELY GOING TO HAVE TO DO THIS OPERATION ON BOTH BUTLER AND BEAVER, CERTAINLY AFTER LARGE EVENTS.

THEN I THINK THERE'S ONE MORE IMAGE.

THAT'S A COOL ONE, I THINK OF THAT FAMOUS BUILDING RIGHT BEHIND IT.

>> WEATHERFORD.

>> THE WEATHERFORD. THANK YOU. RIGHT BEHIND IT.

BEAVER STREET. VERY SIMILAR.

I DO NOT HAVE IMAGES, BUT IT'S VERY SIMILAR.

THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT IS A ONE-WAY STREET.

WE DO NOT HAVE A MEDIAN AND WE HAVE ONLY SOUTHBOUND TRAFFIC.

OUR CONFLICTS ARE MUCH GREATER ON BEAVER.

WE HAVE DRIVEWAYS, ALLEYS, PARKING, BICYCLES, PEDESTRIANS.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF CONCERNS.

FOR EXAMPLE, SOLID WASTE AND RECYCLE.

HOW CAN WE REACH OUT ARM ON A TRASH TRUCK ACROSS THAT NEW SEPARATED BIKE LANE TO PHYSICALLY GRAB A CAN THAT IS NOW REMOVED FROM THE ROADWAY.

THOSE ARE THINGS WE FRANKLY HAVE NOT TRIED YET.

WE STARTED TO DO SOME OF THE RESEARCH, BUT WE KNOW WE'RE GOING TO HAVE CHALLENGES AND EVERYONE IN PUBLIC WORKS IS COMMITTED TO FIGURING THIS OUT.

BUT THIS WILL BE PART OF THE STRATEGY WITHIN THE PILOTS TO REALLY UNDERSTAND THE PROS AND CONS OPERATIONALLY.

DOES THIS WORK AND DOES IT NOT? I'LL TELL YOU AFTER THE FIRST COUPLE STORMS, WE'RE GOING TO KNOW REAL QUICKLY AT WHAT WE NEED TO ADJUST.

WE'LL BE COMPARING IT QUICKLY JUST TO SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

THE NEXT ONE IS A SLIDE THAT'S PRETTY HIGH LEVEL AND WE DID NOT PUT THESE UP HERE TO SCARE YOU.

I DO WANT TO TALK THROUGH A COUPLE OF THESE.

THIS IS A VERY NEW LEVEL OF SERVICE FOR US.

WE DID ASSIGN IT PRIORITY ONE STATUS JUST LIKE WE DID WITH THE ROAD.

WE COULD DROP THAT DOWN AND MAYBE CHANGE THESE NUMBERS BUT AT THIS POINT WE FELT THAT IT WAS FAIR TO JUST TELL YOU, WE WOULD LIKE TO TRY THIS AND SEE HOW FAR IT GETS US.

WE KNOW IT WILL TAKE DEDICATED EQUIPMENT AND STAFFING.

REMEMBER THAT ONE PLOW TRUCK THAT HAS 25 MILES.

THEY DO NOT HAVE THE PIECE OF EQUIPMENT, AND THEY DO NOT HAVE THE TIME IN THAT ROUTE TO SIMPLY WORK THESE SEPARATED BIKE LANES DURING AN ENTIRE EVENT.

AMY AND GREG DID A GREAT JOB OF DEVELOPING A LARGE SPREADSHEET OF WHAT IT WOULD COST TO PUT EQUIPMENT AND STAFFING TO THIS EFFORT ON BOTH OF THESE PILOTS DURING EACH EVENT AND WE'VE IDENTIFIED SOME ONETIME COSTS AND SOME ONGOING.

[04:45:03]

THE ONETIME COSTS MOST NOTABLY, WE ARE GOING TO BE REQUESTING TWO OF THOSE TOOLCAT UTILITY TYPE TRACTORS, STREETS DOES NOT HAVE ANY OF THOSE AT THIS TIME.

WE WOULD NEED TO PROCURE TWO OF THOSE WITH THE SNOW THROWER ATTACHMENT, AND THEN OUR BLOWER, THE LARGE TRUCK THAT WAS IN THE DOWNTOWN PICTURES, IT'S AN EARLY '90S VINTAGE.

WE'RE SWITCHING NOW OUR FLEET TOWARDS A LARGE LOADER TRACTOR WITH A BLOWER ATTACHMENT SIMILAR TO WHAT ADOT'S UTILIZING.

WE DO NOT HAVE ONE IN THE FLEET TODAY.

I THINK IF WE WERE TO CONTINUE THIS LONG-TERM, WE WOULD REALLY NEED TO LOOK AT THAT INVESTMENT SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

I THINK FOR THIS SEASON, WE ARE MORE THAN COMFORTABLE USING THE EXISTING TRUCK WE HAVE IN THE FLEET TO TRY TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT THIS IS THE WAY WE WANT TO GO.

THEN IF WE WERE TO CONTINUE, WE WOULD KNOW WE NEED ONE PLOW TRUCK JUST DEDICATED TO THESE ROUTES, A LOT LIKE ADOT DOES AT THE LARGE INTERSECTIONS, IT'LL DEDICATE ONE TRUCK.

BUT FOR TODAY I THINK WE USE AN EXISTING TRUCK OUT OF OUR FLEET AND WE HAVE THAT ABILITY TO ABSORB WITH THE PLOW TRUCK.

BUT REALLY THAT THE TAKEAWAY IS THE TOOLCATS AND THE BLOWER ATTACHMENT ARE GOING TO COME UP FAIRLY QUICKLY.

ABOUT $300,000 IS RIGHT OFF THE BAT.

GETS US TO THIS SERVICE DELIVERY THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED TODAY.

THEN WHEN IT COMES TO OPERATIONS, THIS IS A VERY DIFFICULT NUMBER TO NAIL DOWN AND WHAT THEY UTILIZED WAS FEMA RATES.

WHEN WE ARE REIMBURSED IN A SNOW EVENT, WE HAVE RATES THAT ARE ASSIGNED AND THEY UTILIZE A PRETTY GOOD NUMBER TO GET TO IT, BUT A 12 HOUR SHIFT IS WHAT WE TYPICALLY RUN.

IF WE WERE TO RUN 24 HOUR OPERATIONS AS WE DO FOR THIS PILOT PROJECT, WE WOULD ASSIGN THREE OPERATORS TO THESE PROJECTS DURING THE DAY SHIFT AND THEN NINE DURING A CLEAN UP AND A REMOVAL SHIFT.

THAT WOULD NOT BE EVERY SINGLE NIGHT, BUT IT WILL AT LEAST BE THREE WITH THE ADDITIONAL SIX MEMBERS TO DO THE HAULING AND THE REMOVAL OPERATION.

IF YOU WERE TO CALCULATE THAT OUT, IT'S HIGHEST BURDEN RATE WITH GENERAL OPERATORS, FUEL, AND THE EQUIPMENT, HAULING THE MATERIAL.

WE'RE AT ABOUT $20 TO $25,000 PER DAY.

THEY CAME UP WITH $27,000 BUT I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY IF IT'S $20,000 A DAY, AND YOU HAD 20 SNOW EVENTS, WHICH IS PRETTY TYPICAL, WE'RE PROBABLY IN A $300 TO $400,000 JUST IN LABOR TO KEEP THESE CLEANED AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF SERVICE.

IT MAY NOT SNOW, WE MAY NOT NEED THIS LEVEL OF SERVICE.

BUT IT'S FAIR AFTER THE PILOT FOR US TO GO BACK AND SAY, "OKAY, HOW CLOSE WERE WE?" THEN THE OTHER PIECE IS, WE CURRENTLY ARE STAFFED WITH 25 OPERATORS DRIVING SNOW OPERATIONS.

THAT'S 12 PER SHIFT, GENERALLY DAY AND NIGHT.

OUR EXISTING OPERATIONS FLEET OF PEOPLE, IT'S PROBABLY UNLIKELY TO GO START OPERATING NEW EQUIPMENT AND PROVIDE NEW SERVICE.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT FUTURE FTES IF WE WERE TO CONTINUE.

MAYBE LOOK AT TEMP OPERATORS, TRY TO FIND A WAY TO COVER THESE SHIFTS.

BUT I DO HAVE TO JUST REMIND US ALL THAT WE'RE SITTING ON A NUMBER OF OPENINGS TODAY, OUR POOLS HAVE BEEN NOT SO GREAT AND WE JUST HAVEN'T HAD A STRONG OUTCRY FOR PEOPLE TO COME TO WORK AS AN OPERATOR AND STREETS TECHNICIAN.

I DON'T WANT TO OVERSELL THIS AND SAY THIS THING IS GOING TO LOOK PERFECT.

WE'RE SHORTHANDED ON A REGULAR ROUTE AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS WE WILL LIKELY HAVE TO PULL STAFFING FROM OTHER AREAS TO COME AND PICK THIS PIECE UP, WHICH WE CAN DO, BUT IT MAY BE DELAYED SERVICE IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS OR A LITTLE SLOWER RESPONSE AND WE HAVE SOME TIME BUILT INTO POLICY TO GET INTO THOSE AREAS.

BUT OUR PUBLIC'S GENERALLY PRETTY ANXIOUS TO GET IN AND OUT OF THEIR HOUSE WITHIN ABOUT NINE MINUTES AFTER IT STOPS SNOWING. [LAUGHTER]

>> A QUESTION FROM EISNER.

>> SURE.

>> HOW DOES THIS $27,000 PER 24 HOUR PERIOD COMPARE TO THE EXPENSE NOW?

>> AGAIN, IT'S A GUESS BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW MANY PEOPLE AND ARE THEY GOING TO BE ON THIS? GENERALLY, WE SPEND ABOUT A $1 MILLION A YEAR CITYWIDE FOR SNOW OPERATIONS.

THIS IS HIGH BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE DEDICATED PEOPLE ONLY TO THIS PROJECT.

I THINK WE CAN SOMEHOW SAY IT MIGHT BE 15 TO 20, IF WE'RE REALLY DEDICATING RESOURCES TOWARDS IT.

BUT WHEN AMY AND GREG DID THE EXERCISE, THEY REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO SHORT IT AND SAY, "WELL, WE JUST WON'T PUT SOMEBODY ON THERE FOR SIX HOURS." NOW WE ALL KNOW IN PRACTICE, IF THEY GET IT ALL CLEANED UP, THEY CAN PROBABLY WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE FOR 12 HOURS OR FOR EIGHT HOURS.

IT'S REALLY NEVER A 24 HOUR TOTAL OPERATION UNLESS IT'S JUST A GIANT STORM AND AT THAT POINT WE'RE BEHIND ON EVERYTHING.

WE WANTED TO TRY TO FIND A WAY TO CAPTURE WHAT WOULD THE LABOR LOOK LIKE IF WE HAD PEOPLE.

THAT'S ALL THEY DID ALL DAY LONG AND THAT'S HOW THE NUMBER GOT TO THAT.

[04:50:01]

BUT I THINK AFTER THIS YEAR WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO REALLY SAY, "NO, DURING AN AVERAGE SIX INCH EVENT, WE REALLY ONLY SPENT 73 HOURS ON THE SEPARATED BIKE INFRASTRUCTURE AND IT'S A TOTAL COST OF $14,950."

>> BUT HOW DOES THAT COMPARE WITH WHAT THE COST IS FOR A 24 HOUR PERIOD CURRENTLY WITHOUT SEPARATED BIKE LANE?

>> I'M SORRY. I CAN FIND OUT FOR YOU.

IF YOU'RE SAYING WE WERE FULLY DEPLOYED, EVERY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT WERE OUT AND EVERY OPERATOR WE'RE WORKING, WHAT DOES IT COST US TO RUN A 24 HOUR DAY OPERATION? I CAN FIND IT OUT. I DON'T HAVE IT OFF MY HEAD, BUT IT'S A LOT.

WE BURN A LOT OF FUEL AND IT'S A LOT OF PEOPLE, A LOT OF OVERTIME. YES.

>> LARYSA MAKES A GOOD POINT.

IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE NOT GOING TO SHOVEL THOSE ANYWAYS.

THOSE TWO MILES OF ROAD NOW THAT'S 20,000 AS OPPOSED TO NOW 27,000 ARE PRETTY GOOD.

[INAUDIBLE] ARE BUILD TO HAVE.

>> THE DIFFERENCE IS WE USED TO BE ABLE TO CATCH THE BIKE LANE WITH A PLOW TRUCK WORKING THE STREET IN TODAY'S MODEL.

THIS IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PIECE OF EQUIPMENT, IT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT OPERATION, IT WOULD NOW LOOK VERY DIFFERENT.

WHEREAS BEFORE IT WAS A ONE-MILE PASS IN A 25-MILE ROUTE.

NOW, IT'S A TRACK THAT'S ONLY DESIGNED TO BUILD AND ONLY DELIVER SERVICE TO THIS PILOT PROJECT.

>> THAT'S $27,000 ADDED ONTO WHAT WE OTHERWISE WOULD HAVE SPENT.

>> THAT'S THE WAY I SEE IT. YES.

>> OKAY. I JUST.

>> YES. IT'S IN ADDITION TO WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY.

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> YEAH, THANK YOU. THAT WAS NICE CLARIFYING THE QUESTION. A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

THIS BLOWER, IS IT GOING TO BE BLOWING SNOW ONTO PASSING TRAFFIC?

>> WE'LL HAVE TO TRAIN OPERATORS SO THAT WE'D HAVE TO USE ROVING TRAFFIC CONTROL.

WE'D LIKELY TEAM IT UP WITH A PICK-UP OR ANOTHER SUPERVISOR TO HOLD TRAFFIC AND MOVE IT TO THE LEFT OR MAYBE USE AN ARROW BOARD.

IT CAN BLOW MORE TOWARDS THE PAVEMENT IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

INSTEAD OF BLOWING IT OUT OVER CARS, WE COULD BLOW IT.

>> OVER WINDSHIELD.

>> BUT YES. YOU CAN SEE IT'S BLOWING COMPLETELY UP IN THAT POSITION.

>> THEN ARTICULATE.

>> THAT'D BE FUN TO DRIVE THROUGH IT.

>> BUT IT WILL TAKE A SKILLED OPERATOR AND THEN THE OTHER CHALLENGE WE HAVE COUNCIL MEMBER IS, WHILE THE WIDTH IS NICE, THIS MACHINE, WE ONLY HAVE ABOUT SIX INCHES OF PLAY LEFT AND RIGHT.

FOR THE OPERATOR TO JUST SIMPLY MANEUVER AND THAT'S HOW THEY LANDED ON THE SNOW THROWER WAS A TRACTOR WITH A BUCKET JUST CANNOT FUNCTION WITHIN THAT SPACE.

THE THROWER IS THE ONLY REAL OPTION BUT THAT IS DEFINITELY ON OUR LIST OF THINGS TO TRAIN AND LOOK OUT FOR IS HOW DO WE NOT BREAK WINDOWS?

>> THAT'S FINE. I'M NOT LOOKING FOR EXCUSES TO NOT DO THIS, I'M JUST TRYING TO. [OVERLAPPING]

>> OH, NO, I HEAR IT.

>> NOT SURE OF IT.

>> COMPLETELY.

>> WE'RE ACTUALLY VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS.

>> I THINK IT'S A FAIR QUESTION. THANK YOU.

>> WHEN THE BLOWER IS BLOWING, IS THE TRACTOR GOING TO BE RIGHT BEHIND IT, OR IS IT USUALLY GOING TO BE THE CASE WHERE THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO COORDINATE THAT TYPE?

>> OPERATIONALLY, WE'RE HOPING TO COORDINATE BECAUSE I THINK IT'S GOING TO MAKE SENSE IF THIS MACHINE MOVES SNOW FROM THE BIKE LANE INTO THE SLOW LANE, WE NEED TO MOVE IT PRETTY QUICKLY.

MY SUSPICION IS THEY ARE GOING TO COMMUNICATE CONSTANTLY AND THIS OPERATOR WOULD COMMUNICATE WITH A TRUCK OPERATOR.

"HEY, I'M ON BUTLER EASTBOUND.

I'M GOING TO START MY ROUTE.

IS THERE A TRUCK BEHIND ME?" THEN WE WOULD LIKELY ACTUALLY TEAM UP A COUPLE PLOWS SO THEY CAN CLEAR THE ENTIRE SECTION OF BUTLER RIGHT TO LEFT WITH ONE PASS.

THEY CALL IT TEAM PLOWING AND IF RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE, IT'S A VERY EFFICIENT WAY TO DO IT.

WHERE WE GET STUCK IS WHEN TRAFFIC'S HEAVY OR THE SNOW IS JUST SO FAST, TWO INCHES AN HOUR STUFF, WE JUST GET BEHIND, AND THEN IT'S JUST CRAZINESS UNTIL WE CAN GET CAUGHT UP.

>> FEW MORE QUESTIONS.

THIS ONE IS LESS RELEVANT BUT STILL MIGHT BE OF CONCERN IN CERTAIN SIGNIFICANCE.

THE LANDSCAPING AND THE VEGETATION OF THE MEDIANS, ARE THEY ABLE TO HANDLE THIS AND SURVIVE THE SEASON? THAT'S GOING TO BE DIFFERENT FOR CERTAIN SHRUBS VERSUS TREES BUT WE'RE TRYING TO THINK LONG-TERM ABOUT THAT.

>> ON BEAVER, WE DO NOT HAVE ANY MEDIAN INSTALLATION OF LANDSCAPING SO THAT'S GOOD NEWS.

ON BUTLER, WE DO HAVE A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF INVESTMENT IN BBB LANDSCAPING AND PARKS DOES DO A GREAT JOB OF MAINTAINING IT.

A LOT OF IT'S MATURE.

WE ALSO HAVE THE LARGE LOG SEPARATED IN FRONT OF THE CONFERENCE CENTER DIVIDER.

I THINK GENERALLY MOST OF THE STUFF IS LARGE ENOUGH WHERE IT'S GOING TO KEEP UP OKAY AND IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO SURVIVE.

I ACTUALLY PROBABLY HAVE MORE CONCERN WHEN THUS WHEN WE DO THE REMOVAL ABOUT TRACTORS GETTING INTO THE MEDIAN AND DAMAGING LANDSCAPING BECAUSE WE LOSE THE CURVE OR WE LOSE THE MEDIAN AND THAT HAPPENS FROM TIME TO TIME ON AN EDGE OR A PARTWAY.

[04:55:01]

BUT I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME DAMAGE BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE MAJOR.

>> THE ONE FINAL QUESTION.

HOW DOES THIS AFFECT CINDER OPERATIONS?

>> PERFECT. I APOLOGIZE, I DID FORGET.

I HAD MENTIONED WE WILL CONTINUE TO USE ICE CINDERS, WE WILL ALSO NEED TO SWEEP THIS BIKE LANE BECAUSE IT WILL HAVE CINDERS AS WELL.

WE ARE NOT NECESSARILY ADVOCATING, WE SWITCH TO CHEMICAL DEICERS.

THAT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CONVERSATION BUT I THINK WE'RE LIKELY GOING TO EVENTUALLY GET THERE IF THIS WERE AN APPROACH YOU ARE GOING TO GO TOWARDS.

THEY DO MAKE AN ATTACHMENT, IT'S A SWEEPER BOX FOR THAT SAME PIECE OF EQUIPMENT.

WE WOULD LIKELY LOOK AT THAT LONGER-TERM AND FOR NOW, WE HAVE SOME SHORT-TERM IDEAS BUT WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO SWEEP THAT BIKE LANE AND THAT WOULD BE YEAR-ROUND, NOT ONLY DURING SNOW EVENTS.

>> FINALLY A COMMENT. I'M REALLY TICKLED ABOUT THIS.

I'M SUPER EXCITED.

THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH FOR THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX AND COMING TO US WITH SOME OPTIONS HERE.

I CAN SEE HOW THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF PEOPLE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS, I CAN SEE HOW THERE'S GOING TO BE A BUNCH OF FOLKS WHO ARE VERY CRITICAL OF THE WHOLE THING, SKEPTICAL OF IT.

WHICH IS WHY WE'RE DOING THIS AS A PILOT PROJECT.

I THINK WE'VE IDENTIFIED SOME GOOD STRETCHES OF ROAD TO TRY THIS OUT ON AND OF COURSE, THE COMMUNICATION LISTENING PIECE IS GOING TO BE KEY TO ALL THIS.

JUST REALLY INTERESTED TO SEE HOW THE CONVERSATION EVOLVES.

IF OVERALL, THE PUBLIC, BOTH OUR CYCLING COMMUNITY AND OUR DRIVING COMMUNITY COMMUTERS ARE GOING TO HAVE SOME SORT OF SYNERGISTIC FEELS ABOUT THIS OR IF IT'S JUST GOING TO BE [LAUGHTER] A BIG MESS.

I THINK IT COULD GO EITHER WAY, REALLY.

BUT I KNOW YOU GUYS WILL PUT YOUR BEST EFFORT INTO IT AND I THINK IT'S A FASCINATING EXPERIMENT.

I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE HOW THINGS HAPPEN AND OF COURSE, SAFETY IS THE NUMBER 1 CONCERN FOR EVERYBODY INVOLVED AND I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO KEEP THAT WHEN WE ARE GONE.

>> YEAH, [NOISE] THANK YOU.

[NOISE]

>> [INAUDIBLE].

>> THANK YOU. YES. I LIKE ALL THOSE COMMENTS.

I'M ALSO EXTREMELY TICKLED.

I'M EXCITED ABOUT THIS.

>> YOU DON'T HEAR THAT EVERY DAY.

YES. [LAUGHTER]

>> I DON'T USUALLY SAY THAT.

[BACKGROUND] [LAUGHTER] I'M REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS.

I AM WONDERING SCOTT, IN YOUR RESEARCH AND TALKING TO OTHER COMMUNITIES AND CITY MANAGER FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE IN COLORADO, DOES THIS MAKES SENSE? NOT JUST FOR TWO MILES BUT ACTUALLY THE PILOT IS OVER IT.

[NOISE] [INAUDIBLE] THE CLIENT TO THE REST OF THE SEVEN MILES TO CREATE A MORE REALISTIC SYSTEM.

DOES THIS MAKES SENSE FOR US TO BE MOVING FORWARD WITH IN TERMS OF THE GAME PLAN OR IS THIS MORE LABOR-INTENSIVE THAN OR ARE THERE OTHER MORE EFFICIENT WAYS TO BE GOING ABOUT THIS. I GUESS THAT'S MY QUESTION.

>> I THINK IT'S A REALLY FAIR QUESTION AND I THINK IT'S SOMETHING WE'VE ASKED OURSELVES AND I THINK THE PILOT WILL HELP US UNDERSTAND A LOT OF WHAT YOUR QUESTION IS.

I DO WANT TO SHARE THAT OUR COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE DONE DIFFERENT TYPES OF TREATMENT BUT THEY ARE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.

SOME ARE LOWER ELEVATIONS, SOME DON'T HAVE QUITE THE CONDITION THAT WE DO.

THERE ARE SOME COMMUNITIES THAT TRIED THIS AND ABANDONED IT, IT DID NOT WORK WELL.

I THINK THEY WANTED TO WORK AND WAS NOT WELL RECEIVED AND IT WAS TOO HARD TO MAINTAIN.

WE'RE NOT THERE YET. I DO THINK IT'S GOING TO BE CHALLENGING AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO PUSH THE ENVELOPE OF HOW WE MAINTAIN IT.

I THINK WE NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THE EXPECTATION WE SET EARLY.

BUT IF WE GET THE YEAR HERE TO TRY SOME THINGS OUT, WE'RE GOING TO LEARN A LOT AND WE MAY HAVE TO REEVALUATE THAT QUESTION.

BUT IT'S PRETTY MIXED ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

IT'S NOT TYPICAL OUTSIDE OF A DOWNTOWN CORE OR MAYBE IN AN AIRPORT, THAT'S WHERE YOU NORMALLY SEE A LOT OF DEDICATED MAYBE AROUND A CONFERENCE CENTER.

WE DON'T GENERALLY SEE LOTS OF THIS FOR MILES AND MILES IN MOST INNER MOUNTAIN WEST COMMUNITIES, IT'S PRETTY RARE.

>> ANOTHER COLORADO STATES THAT PRIORITIZE BICYCLE INFRASTRUCTURE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS DIFFERENT?

>> WHAT I SAW MOSTLY WAS THEY WERE UTILIZING IT IN DOWNTOWN CORES.

WHERE IT WAS EASIER TO MAINTAIN, MAYBE IT HAD MORE BICYCLE COMMUTER TRAFFIC AND IT WASN'T AS SPRAWLING AS RURAL.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT OTHER THAN IT'S JUST UTILIZING A DIFFERENT LOCATION MAYBE.

>> SURE.

>> TREATMENT WISE OF THE MAINTENANCE SIDE, VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING.

MOST OF WHAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED IS WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

THE TOOL CAST, THE ONLY EXCEPTION TO THAT IS THE CHEMICAL DEICERS.

A LOT OF COMMUNITIES ARE USING THOSE WHICH HELP THEM WITH CLEANING.

BUT SNOW REMOVAL HAS BEEN ABOUT THE SAME AS WHAT WE HAVE PROPOSED TODAY.

[05:00:04]

>> [INAUDIBLE] IF THERE'S ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD.

>> I THINK WE SHOULD GO INTO THIS WITH OPEN EYES AND BE PREPARED TO ADAPT TO WHAT WE FIND OUT.

THAT'S THE NATURE OF IT BEING A PILOT PROJECT OR TWO.

UNLIKE THE COMMUNITIES THAT I HAVE BEEN IN, THE INEQUITY IN FLAGSTAFF IS, WE GET A LOT OF SNOW BUT IT MELTS FAST.

MANY OF THE COLORADO COMMUNITIES THAT I'M FAMILIAR WITH, THE SNOW DID NOT MELT FAST AND IT WAS A DIFFERENT CHALLENGE.

BUT IN FLAGSTAFF, WE GET DUMPED ON AND WE GET SUNSHINE AND THE SUNSHINE CAN REALLY MELT THE SNOW FAST.

I THINK THE THING WE ULTIMATELY WILL REVISIT ON THIS MIGHT BE LEVEL OF SERVICE.

I THINK THE THING WE SHOULD BE PREPARED FOR IS THAT JEFF WALKED US THROUGH HOW THIS IS A SEGMENT IN A LARGER CORRIDOR BOTH PILOT PROJECTS.

IF WE HAVE A HIGH LEVEL OF SERVICE, WE CLEAR THESE SEPARATED BIKE LANES OUT QUICKLY.

BICYCLES WILL NEVERTHELESS BE FUNNELING INTO AN AREA WHERE THAT'S NOT THE CASE ON BOTH ENDS OF EACH PILOT AND I THINK WE SHOULD PREPARE FOR COMMENTS TO THAT EFFECT.

THE BIKE LANE WAS GREAT BUT BEYOND THAT, THE CONDITIONS DETERIORATED QUICKLY OR SOMETHING.

IT'S JUST SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE EXPECTING.

IN THESE SEGMENTS, IT MIGHT BE REALLY GOOD AND BEYOND THE SEGMENTS, IT MIGHT BE NOT SO GOOD.

IT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE PREPARED FOR.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT. A COUPLE MORE COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS.

I'D LOVE TO DIVE INTO OUR POLICY ABOUT LEVELS OF SERVICE WHEN WE CONSTITUTE TREE PLOWING OPERATIONS.

I KNOW OUR COMMUNITY IS VERY ADAMANT AND VOCAL ABOUT GIVING THEIR STREETS CLOUD ASAP.

BUT I AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENT ABOUT SUNSHINE AND IT'S A LOT DIFFERENT TRYING TO NAVIGATE IN A VEHICLE OUR ROAD.

BUT YEAH, I'D BE HAPPY TO ADDRESS THAT AND HAVE THIS COMES BY, SEE IF THERE'S ANY BIGGER WE'D LIKE TO DO DIFFERENTLY MOVING FORWARD TO MAKE THIS EASIER FOR OUR STAFF AND OUR OPERATIONS.

I'M NOT SURE IF A PLAN TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION AT SOME POINT OR NOT.

>> WELL, I WANT YOU TO JUST ASK A CLARIFYING QUESTION.

RIGHT NOW, THE PRIORITY ONE ROUTES ARE THESE MAINS, PRIORITY TWO IS NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICE AND IT'S EVERYTHING AFTER FOUR INCHES AND IT'S GENERALLY BEEN WORKING OKAY, AND THEN WITHIN THE POLICY, THERE'S THIS TIMELINES AND FRAMES OF HOW LONG WE CAN GET INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD BASED ON THE DEPTH AND ACCUMULATION.

IT'S GENERALLY BEEN WORKING VERY WELL, I WOULD NOT ADVOCATE THAT WE CHANGE IT EVEN WITH THE PILOT.

I THINK, WE NEED TO GET THROUGH THIS AND THEN LOOK AT HOW WE LOOK AT IT? WE'VE ACTUALLY MADE SOME PRETTY GOOD STRIDES IN MORE EQUIPMENT, A COUPLE OF MORE PEOPLE.

I MEAN, WE'RE STARTING TO ACTUALLY GET BETTER IN WHAT THE EXISTING POLICY IS AND I THINK, THAT'S A GOOD PLACE TO BE HEADING TOWARDS.

I WOULD NOT TINKER WITH THAT AT THIS TIME.

>> OKAY. THEN I THINK, I UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE PART OF PARKS AND RECS EFFORTS BECAUSE THEY'RE STREETS.

>> WE'RE STILL WORKING THAT OUT A LITTLE BIT.

TRADITIONALLY, PARKS HAS DONE A GREAT JOB WITH SIDEWALKS, FOOT TRAILS, AND THE SMALLER AMENITIES, ALLEYS.

WHAT WE'VE GOTTEN INTO IT WITH THIS IS, OPERATIONALLY, THIS IS MUCH MORE OF A STREETS OPERATION, SO WE'RE ACTUALLY LEANING MORE TOWARDS STREET'S SERVICE.

>> OKAY.

>> BECAUSE THE EQUIPMENT, AND THE HAULING, AND THE ACTUAL COORDINATION MIGHT MAKE MORE SENSE.

BUT FROM A STAFFING PERSPECTIVE, THEY'VE BEEN AT THE TABLE, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THEM.

WE KNOW AS A BIGGER PUBLIC WORKS AND PARKS AND REC TEAM, WE'VE GOT A BIG PROBLEM TO SOLVE, BUT IT'S REALLY IN THE STREET MORE THAN IT IS, SAY, A SIDEWALK OR A FOOT TRAIL.

>> I AGREE WITH THAT, FULLY.

[INAUDIBLE] PARKS AND STREETS.

THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

>> [INAUDIBLE] TO HEAR THAT.

>> [LAUGHTER] YOU CAN HELP OUT THOUGH?

>> NO, THEY'VE BEEN [OVERLAPPING] GREAT. THEY'VE BEEN REALLY GOOD AT HELP US OUT.

>> [OVERLAPPING] MY LAST COMMENT ON THIS, I THINK WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING AS A CYCLIST AND I'VE CYCLED FOR OVER 15-YEARS.

WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING TILL NOW? SOMETIMES IT WORKS, BUT OFTEN IT DOESN'T FOR THE CYCLIST.

ALTHOUGH, WE MIGHT TRY TO ACCOMMODATE THE CYCLISTS NEED.

I'VE BEEN TALKING AND IT APPEARS WHAT CYCLISTS, WE ARE STOKED ABOUT THIS, WE ARE ALL TICKLED.

[LAUGHTER] BASICALLY, KNOWING THAT THE CITY, FOR THE FIRST TIME IS REALLY PRIORITIZING AND TAKING CARE OF US, SO THANK YOU.

I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS. THANK YOU.

>> COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY AND [INAUDIBLE].

>> OKAY. THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION STARTED AFTER WE HAD A VERY TRAGIC ACCIDENT AT BEAVER STREET AND BUTLER AVENUE.

I THINK, WE ALL KNOW THAT.

INCIDENTALLY, I AM SUPPORTING THESE TRIALS,

[05:05:02]

WE'LL SEE HOW IT GOES, AND THEN MAKE A DECISION WHERE WE GO FROM THERE? BUT I'D LIKE TO POINTING OUT THAT THIS PROJECT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT CAUSED THAT TRAGIC ACCIDENT.

IT IS MY THEORY AND I HAVEN'T REALLY THOROUGHLY RESEARCHED THIS.

BUT WHAT HAPPENED IS, THE SUN WAS AT SUCH AN ANGLE THAT THE DRIVER HAD THE SUN IN EYES.

THIS IS HAPPENED TO ME, THAT'S WHY I KNOW THAT IT CAN HAPPEN.

THAT HE WAS SO FOCUSED ON TRYING TO NOT HAVE THE SUN BLIND HIM, THAT HE DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE THERE WAS A STOP RIGHT THERE.

MY QUESTION IS, HAVE WE DONE ANYTHING TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE? MAYBE THAT WOULD BE [INAUDIBLE] BACKWARDS ON THE STOP LIGHTS OR MAYBE IT WOULD BE A YELLOW BORDER AROUND THE BACKWARDS ON THE STOP LIGHTS.

WE GOT ANYTHING TO ADDRESS WHAT CAUSED THE ACCIDENT?

>> JEFF, DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT ONE AS A TRAFFIC ENGINEER?

>> YEAH, I THINK SO.

>> YEAH, I'M ON. I'M HAPPY TO TAKE THAT ONE.

WE HAVE DONE A REVIEW OF THE CONDITIONS OUT OF THAT SITE AT BEAVER STREET AND BUTLER AVENUE.

YOU'VE MENTIONED A COUPLE OF GOOD THINGS, SO BACK PLATES, WHICH ARE THOSE BORDERS ON THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL.

THOSE ARE ALREADY MAXIMUM SIZE BORDERS, SO WE CAN'T GO ANY BIGGER.

WE CHECKED HEAD PLACEMENT.

THERE'S A MINIMUM NUMBER OF VEHICLE INDICATIONS, GREEN, YELLOW, REDS.

WE HAVE OVER THE MINIMUM, WE HAVE THEM ON BOTH THE LEFT SIDE AND RIGHT SIDE FOR THAT WESTBOUND AND MULTIPLE OVERHEAD, SO WE'VE GONE BEYOND MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS THERE AS WELL.

I SEE STERLING WANTS TO JUMP IN [LAUGHTER].

CUT ME OFF STERLING, IF I TALK TOO MUCH.

THE LAST THING YOU MENTIONED WAS THE RETRO REFLECTIVE BORDERS, THOSE YELLOW BANDS.

THOSE ARE REALLY FOR NIGHTTIME VISIBILITY, THOSE ARE NOT TRIED INTO THE SUNSET, SO JUST ADJUSTING A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT YOU HAVE MENTIONED.

>> STERLING, DO YOU WANT TO CHIME IN?

>> THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE IT.

OF COURSE, WITH RESPECT TO ANY SPECIFIC INCIDENTS WITHIN [NOISE] THE CITY, THERE'S NOTHING THAT'S BEEN DONE SIMPLY AS A REACTION.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT.

WE'RE ALWAYS LOOKING ACROSS THE BOARD IN THE CITY TO PROVIDE THE GREATEST SAFETY POSSIBLE, NOT JUST BECAUSE OF SPECIFIC INCIDENTS. THANK YOU.

>> JUST TO ADD TO THAT AS I ALLUDED TO, I'VE EXPERIENCED THIS VERY PROBLEM.

IT WAS PROBABLY THE SAME WEEK THAT THIS HAPPENED.

I WAS DRIVING DOWN ROUTE 66 IN THE AREA OF PROBABLY [INAUDIBLE] STREET.

I WAS ALMOST BLINDED BY THE SUN AND I SLOWED WAY DOWN, BUT IT WAS A VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION.

IT SOUNDS LIKE, THERE IS NO GOOD IDEAS ABOUT HOW TO ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM?

>> I'M GOING TO HOPE IN JUST FROM A TIME PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE WE'VE ONLY GOT ABOUT 13 MINUTES LEFT FOR THE STATEMENT.

IF THAT'S A RELATED ISSUE, THAT MAY NEED FOLLOW-UP CONVERSATION, MAYBE THAT'S A GOOD ROUTE FOR THAT.

>> I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA, IF THAT'S OKAY.

COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY, I THINK WE DON'T WANT TO START FROM THE DISCUSSION.

YOU'VE PROMISED TO GET BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND.

>> TO JEFF.

>> JEFF, THAT'S TURNED OVER TO YOU AND MAYOR HAD A QUESTION.

>> YEAH, MY ONE QUESTION WAS, IF WE GO THROUGH THAT SLIDE BACK?

>> SURE.

>> I KNOW WE NEED TO GET THROUGH THE POWER PROGRAM TO SEE HOW THIS GOES THIS WINTER? I'M SUPER STOKED ABOUT THIS.

I WANT TO SEE IT THROUGH, HOPEFULLY, THE NINE MILES.

I'M JUST WONDERING IN TERMS OF THIS ONETIME EQUIPMENT.

HOW MUCH MORE EQUIPMENT ARE WE GOING TO NEED IF THIS DOES TURN OUT TO WORKED OKAY AND WE DO WORK TOWARDS EXPANDING OR WHAT ARE WE LOOKING IN TERMS OF [INAUDIBLE]?

>> WE DIDN'T DO A LOT OF ANALYSIS BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON WHERE IT ALL GOES? IF IT'S SOMEWHAT CONTIGUOUS, WHICH I THINK, IT, LIKELY, WILL BE.

ODDS ARE, WE'RE GOOD FOR AWHILE.

WE DID NOT CALCULATE HOW MANY MILES CAN ONE TOOLCAT COVER IN A SHIFT? I WOULD SUSPECT WITH OUR TWO TOOLCATS, WE CAN PROBABLY SUPPORT QUITE A FEW MILES BEFORE WE STARTED SAYING, ''OKAY, WE NEED TO ADD MORE FLEET.'' I'M COMFORTABLE FOR QUITE SOME TIME WITH, I THINK, THE TWO TOOLCATS AND THE BLOWER ATTACHMENT.

THE PLOW TRUCK CAN COME WITH TIME, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY SCALE SO I GET BACK TO MY POINT OF WHY IT'S EXPENSIVE? WE'RE ONLY COVERING THE TWO MILES GOING DOWN BUTLER.

IF WE START TO EXPAND THE PROGRAM, THESE PIECES OF EQUIPMENT WILL JUST STAY ON THESE ROUTES AND WE'LL JUST ROLL THEM UNTIL THEY CAN NO LONGER SERVE AS THE ROUTE IN 12-HOURS.

MONEY WILL SPENT [LAUGHTER] AND WE DON'T NEED FOUR

[05:10:01]

OF THEM BECAUSE WE HAVE FOUR MORE MILES. IF THAT MAKES SENSE?

>> YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS HOPING YOU'RE GOING TO SAY BECAUSE [OVERLAPPING] THE WHOLE IDEA OF HAVING A FULL CIRCLE OF THIS [OVERLAPPING] JUST MEAN HERE'S THE TRUCKS, THIS IS NOW GOING TO BE THE NINE MILES ROUTE.

>> THEN WE WOULD GET A DEDICATED ROUTE OF ONLY SEPARATED BIKE LANE AND THAT'S A HUGE WIN FOR THAT ROUTE.

>> I THINK IF THAT'S [INAUDIBLE] I DON'T WANT TO PUT THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE, BUT I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK AHEAD SERVICE EXPERTS DISCUSSION OF THE RISK.

>> COUNCIL MEMBER ADAM.

>> THANK YOU. YEAH, THIS IS HEARTBURN FOR ALL OF US A LITTLE BIT.

ALSO, I CAN AGREE THAT I'M THINKING IN TERMS OF, ONCE WE HAVE THIS EQUIPMENT AND IT'S DONE ITS JOBS ON THE ROADS, THERE ARE OTHER PLACES WHERE THESE TOOLS CAN BE UTILIZED, [OVERLAPPING] [INAUDIBLE] AND SOME OTHER LOCATIONS.

I'M WONDERING IF YOU GUYS ARE BUILDING THAT INTO THE PLAN AS WELL, THE PERSONNEL COST AT THAT POINT?

>> NO, WE CERTAINLY WILL. WE'LL UTILIZE THEM WHEREVER WE CAN UTILIZE THEM. YEP, THEY WILL BE USED.

>> [INAUDIBLE].

>> YEP, AGREED.

>> MY DRIVEWAY?

>> [LAUGHTER] NOT A CHANCE.

>> THAT'S GOOD.

>> [OVERLAPPING] ONE THING IS UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE OF THIS THAT I'VE ALREADY THOUGHT OF IS RESIDENCE ARE GOING TO SEE US MOVING SLOW TOWARDS THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET ON THESE MAJOR ARTERIES AND BECOME HABITUS OF THAT ON THE SMALLER AREA OR STREETS.

>> [OVERLAPPING] BUT IT'S PRETTY UNLIKELY, WE WOULD DO CENTER SERVICE AND THEN REMOVE ALL CITYWIDE.

I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE ASTRONOMICAL, SO [OVERLAPPING] YOU'RE RIGHT.

[OVERLAPPING] THERE COULD BE SOMEONE THAT SAYS, WHY CAN'T YOU DO THAT ON MY STREET?

>> GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.

>> AGREED.

>> [LAUGHTER] I WANT TO COMPLIMENT YOU ON THE USE OF THE WORD, [INAUDIBLE].THAT WAS VERY GOOD.

>> [LAUGHTER] THAT'S GOOD. [LAUGHTER] I'M GOING TO GO LOOK IT UP.

>> [OVERLAPPING] I'M GOING TO JUST TRUST YOU.

>> I'M GOING TO TURN IT BACK OVER TO JEFF.

HE'S GOT SOME QUICK EVALUATION PIECES AND I BELIEVE, MARTIN WILL FINISH US UP WITH THE ATMP PIECE?

>> YES, WE'LL HUSTLE THROUGH HERE AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN.

SO YES, SCOTT HAS COVERED THAT FIRST PILOT REALLY WELL JUST IN DISCUSSION AND THEN THE BOTTOM PART IS WHAT MARTIN AND I WILL BE WORKING ON.

BEFORE AND AFTER BIKE COUNTS, WE'RE PLANNING TO DO THAT, ACTUALLY, NEXT WEEK.

WE'LL BE SETTING UP SOME RECORDING EQUIPMENT SO WE CAN GET A FEEL FOR HOW MANY BIKES ARE USED IN BUTLER AND BEAVER STREET, AND THEN WE'LL CHECK THEM AGAIN IN THE SPRING WHEN WE HAVE THESE FACILITIES IN PLACE BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE BIG GOALS OF THIS PROGRAM.

IT'S BEYOND SAFETY. HOPEFULLY, WE GET MORE PEOPLE COMFORTABLE OUT RIDING ON THESE FACILITIES.

VEHICLE SPEEDS, WE'LL BE CHECKING THOSE IN THE SAME FASHION.

WE'LL START THAT NEXT WEEK.

ACTUALLY, IT MAY START TOMORROW.

SURVEY THE BICYCLISTS ON THEIR EXPERIENCES AND THIS HITS ON ONE OF THE QUESTIONS EARLIER ABOUT THE RIGHT TURN CONFLICTS THAT EXIST TODAY.

WE CAN CERTAINLY ASK THAT QUESTION.

WE'LL BE ASKING OTHER QUESTIONS AS WELL, BUT WE CAN USE COMMUNITY FORUM.

MARTIN HAS A LOT OF GOOD OUTREACH EFFORTS GOING ON WITH THE ATMP REVIEW PROCESS.

WE CAN ROLL SOME OF THESE THINGS TOGETHER, THEY'RE VERY RELATED.

ONE THING THAT WE'RE KEEPING AN EYE ON IS DRAINAGE CONCERNS.

THE STORMWATER FOLKS HAVE SOME CONCERN WITH THE PARKING BARRIERS [OVERLAPPING] HOLDING UP THE WATER FROM GETTING TO THE ACTUAL CURB LINE AND INTO THE INLETS.

WE ARE PURCHASING PARKING BARRIERS WITH BLOCK-OUTS IN THE BOTTOM.

IMAGINE, WHERE A FORKLIFT WOULD SCOOP THEM UP, SAME KIND OF THING.

WATER WILL WORK ITS WAY THROUGH AND AS WE SAW, THERE ARE BREAKS IN THESE RUNS OF BARRIERS.

WE DON'T THINK IT'LL BE A CONCERN, BUT WE CAN ADJUST BY REMOVING A SMALL SECTION OR A FOOT OF BARRIER IF WE DO HAVE SOME ACUTE DRAINAGE ISSUES.

THEN SOMETHING WE'RE INTERESTED IN AS WELL AND SCOTT MENTIONED THIS, JUST DAMAGE TO THE BARRIERS AND DELINEATORS.

VEHICLES HITTING THESE BECAUSE WE DIDN'T PLACE THEM AS WELL AS WE COULD OR [INAUDIBLE] VEHICLES BECAUSE EVERYTHING GOT NARROWER, SNOW PLOW DAMAGE.

WE'RE JUST GOING TO LEARN A LOT GOING THROUGH THE WINTER.

WE'LL BE A LOT SMARTER BY APRIL OR MAY, NEXT YEAR ON THIS WHOLE EVALUATION.

THESE ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO LEARN IN.

>> WE ALREADY HAD THE DISCUSSION.

>> FINE. OUR CITY ATTORNEY CHIMED IN AGAIN.

[LAUGHTER] STERLING?

>> YES.

[LAUGHTER]

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> I'VE SEEN YOU IN THERE.

>> I THINK THAT'S FROM BEFORE.

>> SORRY.

>> YOU ARE OFF THE HOOKS JEFFREY.

>> YEAH, SORRY, THAT WAS FROM BEFORE. THANK YOU.

.>> I'M OFF THE HOOK TOO THEN.

GOOD. I'LL TURN IT OVER TO MARTIN AT THIS POINT.

HE'S GOING TO RUN THROUGH SEPARATED BIKEWAYS IN GENERAL, BIKEWAY MASTER PLANNING.

>> THANK YOU, JEFF. GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE? I AM MARTIN INCE.

I'M MULTI-MODAL TRANSPORTATION PLANNER FOR THE CITY.

OUR INTENT WITH THIS PART OF THE PRESENTATION IS TO TALK ABOUT THE PILOT PROJECT AND SEPARATED BIKE LANES IN GENERAL, IN A LARGER CONTEXT OF THE CITY'S DRAFT BIKEWAYS PLAN.

[05:15:05]

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. BIKEWAYS PLAN IS A WORK IN PROGRESS.

THE CITY'S BICYCLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE, AS WELL AS THE TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION AND EVEN THE PEDESTRIAN COMMITTEE, HAVE WORKED FOR MORE THAN A YEAR ON THIS PLAN.

THIS SLIDE ILLUSTRATES SOME OF ITS DEFINING CHARACTERISTICS.

IT IS DESIGNED TO BE HIERARCHICAL.

THERE ARE FOUR LEVELS OF BIKEWAYS AND THAT ALLOWS US TO FOCUS OUR RESOURCES FOR CONSTRUCTION, MAINTENANCE ETC.

ON PRIMARY AND SECONDARY BIKEWAYS.

IT IS MADE UP OF A VARIETY OF FACILITIES.

BACK IN THE OLD DAYS BIKEWAY NETWORK WAS MADE UP PRETTY MUCH OF BIKE LANES AND PUSH TRAILS, WHERE THEY WERE ALONG STREETS.

NOW THERE ARE ALL NEW AND INNOVATIVE AND ADVANCED FACILITIES TO ACCOMMODATE BICYCLISTS.

THE PLAN INCORPORATES THEM INTO ITS OVERALL MASTER PLAN.

THIRD POINT, THE NETWORK WORKS BEST WHERE IT'S A COMPREHENSIVE SYSTEM, SO WE WANTED TO EXTEND TO ALL PARTS OF TOWN AND BE MORE OR LESS CONTINUOUS SO THERE ARE FEW OR NO GAPS IN THE SYSTEM.

FOURTH POINT IS THAT SIGNAGE, BRANDING, AND WAYFINDING HELP PULL THE WHOLE SYSTEM TOGETHER AND MAKE IT INTO A COHESIVE WHOLE AND MAKES IT EASIER TO USE AND EASIER TO GET PLACES ON THE NETWORK.

THEN FINALLY, THE PLAN IS INTENDED TO APPEAL TO THE INTERESTED BUT CONCERNED SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION.

I THINK THIS IS A CONCEPT THAT WE HAVE SEEN BEFORE WITH THIS GROUP, BUT IT BASICALLY HOLDS THAT ABOUT SOMEWHERE AROUND 60 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION WOULD BE INTERESTED IN TAKING MORE TRIPS BY BICYCLE BUT THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT COMFORT AND SAFETY.

IF WE CAN MAKE FACILITIES THAT ARE APPEALING TO THEM, WE CAN CONVINCE MORE OF THEM TO TAKE TRIPS BY BICYCLE AND REPLACE VEHICLE TRIPS. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

THIS ILLUSTRATES THE OVERALL PLAN BY HIERARCHY.

IF WE COULD JUST ISOLATE THE DARK BLUE AND THE PURPLE LINES, WE WOULD SEE THE PRIMARY AND SECONDARY ROUTES THAT MAKE UP THE BACKBONE SYSTEM FOR THE BIKEWAYS NETWORK, WHEREAS THE LIGHT BLUE AND THE ORANGE PROVIDE ACCESS TO LOCAL NEIGHBORHOODS OR LOCAL DESTINATIONS, BUT THEY ARE THE THIRD AND FOURTH LEVEL ROUTES.

NEXT SLIDE. JEFF TALKED ABOUT AND SHOWED YOU A COUPLE OF SLIDES THAT TALK ABOUT THE CONTINUUM OF SEPARATION FOR FACILITIES.

THIS IS HOW WE INTEND TO INCLUDE IT OR ADDRESS IT IN THE BIKEWAYS PLAN.

IT WORKS FROM THE BOTTOM UP, SO ON LOW SPEED AND LOW VOLUME STREETS, BICYCLISTS ARE COMFORTABLE SHARING SPACE WITH VEHICLES.

AS WE MOVE INTO MORE MODERATE SPEEDS AND VOLUMES, BIKE LANES PROVIDE DEDICATED SPACE ON THE STREET FOR CYCLISTS TO OPERATE.

THEN AS YOU GET A LITTLE BIT HIGHER IN SPEED AND VOLUMES, WE CAN ADD BUFFERS TO BIKE LANES TO CREATE A FOOT AND A HALF OR TWO FEET OF EXTRA SPACE BETWEEN WHERE BIKES OPERATE AND WHERE TRAFFIC IS.

THEN FINALLY, AS WE GET INTO THE HIGH SPEED AND HIGH VOLUME STREETS, SEPARATION MAY BE THE ONLY ANSWER TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL COMFORTABLE AND MORE SAFE.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. WE CAN ADD EVEN MORE DETAILS AS IT PERTAINS TO THE PLAN.

WE'VE DIVIDED IT INTO THREE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES BASED ON LEVEL OF SEPARATION, SHARED, DEDICATED, AND SEPARATED.

YOU CAN SEE WITHIN EACH CATEGORY THERE'S A COUPLE OF HANDFUL OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF FACILITIES.

THE PLAN WILL DEFINE ALL OF THOSE, TALK ABOUT WHERE SUITABLE CIRCUMSTANCES, WHERE THEY WORK BEST, WHERE THEY OUGHT TO BE USED.

ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT TYPES OF FACILITIES ARE INCLUDED IN THE DRAFT PLAN.

IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, I THINK IT WILL SHOW A MAP THAT BREAKS UP THE NETWORK BY FACILITY TYPE.

IT'S NOT SO IMPORTANT TO LOOK TO SEE WHICH TYPES OF FACILITIES ARE USED WHERE.

THERE'S A VARIETY.

ONE OF THE POINTS IS THAT WE DO OUR BEST TO CLOSE ALL THE GAPS AND MAKE THE SYSTEM COMPLETE SO THERE'S NO POINT AT WHICH A BICYCLIST FEELS LIKE THEY'VE BEEN ABANDONED OR THINGS HAVE JUST ENDED AND THEY'RE ON THEIR OWN.

THEN OF COURSE, THE OTHER POINT IS THAT IT COVERS ALL THE NEIGHBORHOODS IN TOWN AND SO REALLY THERE'S A WAY TO GET FROM ANY POINT IN TOWN TO ANY OTHER POINT BY BICYCLE ON PART OF THE NETWORK.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SINCE WE CAN'T DO ALL OF IT AT ONCE, IT'S IMPORTANT TO PRIORITIZE WHICH PARTS OF THE SYSTEM ARE MOST IMPORTANT AND WE'LL SEE THE MOST BENEFIT.

WE USE THESE FOUR FACTORS FOR PRIORITIZATION.

FIRST OFF IS THE HIERARCHY.

WE WILL PRIORITIZE THE PRIMARY AND SECONDARY ROUTES AND TRY TO GET THEM FINISHED FIRST.

[05:20:02]

THE SECOND IS RELIANCE ON OTHER PROJECTS TO COMPLETE SEGMENTS SO I'LL GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF EITHER THE LONE TREE OVERPASS OR THE ROUTE FLIGHT PROJECT.

WE'LL COMPLETE PARTS OF THE SYSTEM FOR US BUT OTHER SEGMENTS THAT ARE ADJACENT TO THOSE PROJECTS MAY NOT MAKE SENSE OR MAY NOT BE EVEN POSSIBLE FOR US TO COMPLETE UNTIL THOSE PROJECTS ARE DONE SO THEN THEY TEND TO GET PUSHED DOWN A LITTLE BIT IN PRIORITY.

THIRD IS THE ANTICIPATED FUNCTION AND LEVEL OF USE.

WHERE ARE THE ROUTES THAT CONNECT IMPORTANT DESTINATIONS? WHAT ARE THE ROUTES THAT WE THINK BICYCLISTS WILL USE MOST HEAVILY? THEN FINALLY, THE LAST PRIORITIZATION FACTOR IS THE CHARACTER OF THE STREET AND THE NEED FOR BIKEWAY FACILITIES.

THIS JUST REALLY REFERENCES HOW BUSY OR HOW FAST A STREET IS AND HOW MUCH BENEFIT BICYCLISTS WOULD SEE FROM SOME LEVEL OF ACCOMMODATION ON THOSE STREETS.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. WITH THAT PRIORITIZATION, WE HAVE AN OVERALL INTENT WITHIN THE FIVE YEARS TO COMPLETE AS MUCH OF THE PRIMARY AND SECONDARY SYSTEM AS POSSIBLE EVEN IF THAT INVOLVES USING INTERIM FACILITIES UNTIL SOMETHING MORE PERMANENT CAN BE BUILT.

WE WOULD LIKE TO INCLUDE SOME HIGH-VISIBILITY, HIGH-IMPACT FACILITY, INCLUDING SEPARATED BIKE LANES, GREAT SEPARATED CROSSINGS THAT ARE QUITE BENEFICIAL TO CYCLISTS AND REALLY ADD TO THE SYSTEM.

THE THIRD, AS I MENTIONED, WE WANT TO INTRODUCE OTHER TYPES OF ADVANCED FACILITIES.

ONE ADVANTAGE TO THIS IS THAT THESE FACILITIES ARE INNOVATIVE TO US, BUT THEY'VE BEEN USED IN OTHER PLACES FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS SO THERE IS A GOOD DEAL OF EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE FOR US TO RELY ON AS WE IMPLEMENT THEM LOCALLY.

FOURTH POINT, THERE IS TO IMPLEMENT BIKE LANES, BIKE ROUTES, AND OTHER ENHANCEMENTS ON THE THIRD AND FOURTH LEVEL, BIKEWAYS TO HELP COMPLETE THE SYSTEM AND MAKE IT MORE ROBUST.

ONE OF THE GOOD THINGS ABOUT DOING THAT IS THE BIKE LANES AND BIKE ROUTES TEND TO BE LESS EXPENSIVE TO IMPLEMENT, SO WE CAN GET A LOT OF MILES OF NEW BIKEWAY AND MAKE THE SYSTEM A LITTLE BIT MORE EXPANSIVE FOR A LITTLE BIT LESS MONEY.

THEN FINALLY I MENTIONED, I THINK THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT, THAT WITHIN THE FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS WE NEED TO PULL THE WHOLE THING TOGETHER WITH SIGNING, IDENTIFICATION AND WAYFINDING SO PEOPLE KNOW THAT THE SYSTEM FUNCTIONS AS A SYSTEM THAT THEY CAN GET TO THEIR DESTINATIONS.

THAT ACTUALLY ELIMINATES ONE OF THE IMPEDIMENTS FOR A LOT OF NEW CYCLISTS, IS THAT THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE THE SYSTEM, THEY DON'T KNOW NECESSARILY IF WHERE THEY WANT TO GO IS PART OF THE SYSTEM AND THIS WILL HELP TO PUT THEM AT EASE. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

>> WE HAVE A QUESTION FROM COUNCILOR [INAUDIBLE].

>> YEAH. REAL QUICK MARTIN, CAN YOU JUST DEFINE WAYFINDING FOR US?

>> SURE. WAYFINDING IS JUST THE PROCESS OF USING THE SYSTEM TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B AND FINDING THE BEST WAY.

FOR EXAMPLE, YOU COULD DO IT NOW THROUGH GOOGLE MAPS OR A PAPER MAP OR THROUGH SOME FASHION.

BUT YOU CAN HAVE TO FIGURE THAT OUT ON YOUR OWN.

YOU MAY NOT HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION ABOUT ROUTES OR STREETS ALONG THE WAY AND SO YOU MAY HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.

THE WAYFINDING THING DOES IT ALL FOR YOU.

I'VE USED IN THE PAST AN EXAMPLE OF IF YOU LIVED IN PRESIDIO AND WANTED TO GO DOWNTOWN AND OUR WAYFINDING WAS IN PLACE OR WHERE WE WANT IT TO BE, THAT ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW IS, TO GET ON THE UNIVERSITY BIKEWAY UNTIL YOU HIT THE MILTON BIKEWAY AND THEN TURN LEFT AND THE MILTON BIKEWAY WILL TAKE YOU INTO DOWNTOWN.

NOW, EACH ONE OF THOSE BIKEWAYS MAY HAVE A FEW TWISTS AND TURNS, BUT IF WE HAVE GOOD SIGNING IN PLACE, YOU'D BE ABLE TO FOLLOW THOSE TWISTS AND TURNS AND YOU WANTED TO DO IT ON YOUR OWN, WE'LL, HAVE ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED THAT FOR YOU. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

>> YEAH, IT DOES. THANK YOU.

>> ALL RIGHT, JUST GOING BACK FOR A MOMENT TO SEPARATED BIKEWAYS.

I WAS A BIT MAYBE AMBITIOUS IN THE USE OF THE TERM, NEAR TERM, BUT THINK ABOUT IT ANYWHERE OVER THE NEXT FIVE OR 10 YEARS.

BUT THE PROJECTS IN THE RIGHT-HAND COLUMN ARE SEPARATED BIKEWAYS THAT COULD BE PART OF OTHER ROADWAY AND CAPITAL PROJECTS SO YOU SEE FOUR ROADWAY PROJECTS THAT ARE COMING UP AS PART OF PROP 419 AND THEN TWO CAPITAL PROJECTS.

IN ALL OF THOSE CASES, FOR ALL THOSE PROJECTS, WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT INCLUDING SEPARATED BIKEWAYS IS PART OF THEM.

THEN THE PROJECTS THAT ARE LISTED ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE OF THE SCREEN ARE ONES THAT WOULD BE FUNDED THROUGH 419 AND PARTICULARLY THE PEDESTRIAN AND BICYCLE COMPONENT OF THE 419 SALES TAX.

WE SEE THE TWO PILOT PROJECTS.

WE'VE IDENTIFIED A COUPLE OF OTHER POTENTIAL SEPARATED BIKEWAY PROJECTS.

THOSE WILL BE REALISTIC AND CANDID ARE EXPENSIVE PROJECTS THAT IT IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO FIT THEM INTO

[05:25:01]

THE 20-YEAR PROGRAM FOR THE TRANSPORTATION SALES TAX.

HOWEVER, I DO THINK THEY MAKE PRETTY GOOD GRANT APPLICATIONS AND OVER THE COMING YEARS I THINK THERE MAY BE MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR GRANT FUNDED PROJECTS, PARTICULARLY WHEN WE SEE HOW THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL TURNS OUT, WE MAY HAVE MORE OPPORTUNITIES COMING UP.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> MARTIN, I'M JUST GETTING THIS KNUCKLE FOR THE FACILITATOR.

JUST FROM THE TIME CHECK PERSPECTIVE, WE'RE A LITTLE BIT PAST OUR ALLOTTED TIME.

>> OKAY.

>> IF YOU HAVE AN ESTIMATED COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT.

>> [OVERLAPPING] GIVE ME TWO MINUTES.

[LAUGHTER]

>> GRANTED. [LAUGHTER]

>> YOU GOT AN EXTRA MINUTE OUT OF IT, GO.

[LAUGHTER]

>> THANK YOU. THIS SHOWS A CONFIGURATION OF A HORIZONTALLY-SEPARATED BIKE LANES, AND ALL WE'VE REALLY DONE IS MOVE THE BIKE LANES OFF THE STREET AND PUT THEM BEHIND THE PARKWAY AND ADJACENT TO THE SIDEWALK.

GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE AND YOU CAN SEE REAL-WORLD EXAMPLES.

THE IMAGE ON THE LEFT IS CAMBRIDGE, MASSACHUSETTS, AND I THINK THE ONE ON THE RIGHT IS PORTLAND, BUT IT MIGHT BE VANCOUVER OF HOW THEY WORK ON THE GROUND.

GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

I MAY HAVE MENTIONED THAT WE HAVE, AT A PRELIMINARY LEVEL, FELL UPON THIS AS A PREFERRED CONFIGURATION FOR NEW STREETS OR CONSTRUCTION.

IF WE'RE BUILDING THEM AS PART OF A NEW STREET OR A SIGNIFICANT STREET PROJECT, THEY'RE RELATIVELY EASY AND INEXPENSIVE, NOT ANY MORE EXPENSIVE, I SHOULD SAY, TO BUILD THAN REGULAR BIKE LANES.

THEY DON'T TAKE UP ANY MORE SPACE, SO RELATIVELY FEASIBLE TO ACCOMPLISH.

THEY ARE, HOWEVER, QUITE EXPENSIVE IF WE TRY TO RETROFIT THEM ON EXISTING STREETS BECAUSE IT INVOLVES A LOT OF CONSTRUCTION.

ONE OF THE ADVANTAGES THAT WE'VE RECOGNIZED IS THAT SNOW CLEARING AND SWEEPING ARE THE SAME AS FUTS TRAILS, SO WE CAN USE THE SAME EQUIPMENT.

IT'S REALLY THE SAME OPERATION.

IT IS MORE TO DO MOST DEFINITELY AS WE ADD THEM, BUT AT LEAST WE KNOW HOW TO DO THAT.

THEN WE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS INCLUDING THE LEFT TURNS, I THINK YOU SAW SLIDES ON.

IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, THAT SHOWS A MAP OF WHERE SEPARATED FACILITIES MAY EXIST.

THE PURPLE ARE THE FACILITIES THAT WERE LISTED FROM A FEW SLIDES BACK.

THE ORANGE ONES ARE FUTS TRAILS THAT REALLY FUNCTION AS PART OF OUR COMMUTER BIKE WAY SYSTEM.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO ACKNOWLEDGE, AND APPRECIATE, AND ENHANCE THE EXISTING FUTS AND THE PLANNED FUTS THAT WE HAVE COMING UP AS PART OF THAT SYSTEM BECAUSE THEY'LL CERTAINLY USE THAT FOR BICYCLE COMMUTING.

WE COULD DO A LITTLE BIT MORE TO MAKE THEM MORE FUNCTIONAL, BUT I THINK THAT THEY PROVIDE US WITH A REALLY GOOD PLACE TO START ON FILLING UP THE SYSTEM.

I BELIEVE THAT'S THE LAST OF MY SLIDES.

I THINK I WAS JUST WITHIN TWO MINUTES.

I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS OR TIME FOR QUESTIONS. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM.

>> PERHAPS ANY QUESTION? [INAUDIBLE]

>> I GOT ONE LAST CLOSING QUESTION, COMMENT ON THIS THEME BEFORE WE TAKE A BREAK.

COUNCIL MEMBER [INAUDIBLE], JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, ALL THESE TOPICS HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED FOR [INAUDIBLE] TO GET SOME OF THESE THINGS DONE, BUT AT A RECENT CONVERSATION THAT WE HAD WITH MEMBERS OF LEADERSHIP WAS THE IDEA OF A [INAUDIBLE] IN THE STREET DESIGNS AND OUR POLICY VALUE SET UP BEHIND WHAT DRIVES THOSE EFFORTS.

I WAS ASKED TO BRING IT UP HERE AND SEE IF THERE WAS SUPPORT FROM COUNCIL TO HAVE A FUTURE DISCUSSION ABOUT A POLICY DISCUSSION REGARDING OUR PRIORITIZATION OF ADDING BIKE EXPERIENCES RELATIVE TO VEHICLE PRIORITIZATION.

I GUESS IT'S A QUESTION FOR THE COUNCIL.

THERE'S A LOT OF AGENCIES THAT BASICALLY PRIORITIZE PEDESTRIANS, CYCLISTS, MULTIMODAL LIKE BUSES AND TAXIS, THEN LASTLY, VEHICLES.

THAT'S A CONVERSATION I'D LIKE TO HAVE WITH THIS COUNCIL AT SOME POINT.

I WAS HOPING WE'D HAVE [INAUDIBLE] BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO, SO THE QUESTION IS, A QUICK SURVEY, THUMBS UP, THUMBS DOWN IF PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN HAVING THAT POLICY DISCUSSION ABOUT OUR VALUE SET REGARDING WHO ARE WE BUILDING FOR? I SEE A FEW THUMBS UP.

>> [NOISE] I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, BUT I WAS GOING TO TALK ABOUT HOW WE PRIORITIZE ROADS, AND [INAUDIBLE].

>> WE'LL DIVE INTO IT DEEPER, BUT HOPEFULLY THAT'S CLEAR TO STAFF.

>> YOU'RE NOT ASKING WHAT OUR POSITION IS.

YOU'RE ASKING, WOULD WE LIKE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ON IT?

>> RIGHT.

>> I GUESS IT'S THUMBS UP TO THAT.

>> LEADERSHIP WAS SAYING THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE TIME TODAY, BUT IF THERE WAS INTEREST FROM COUNCIL WE COULD SET THAT UP IN THE FUTURE,

[05:30:03]

AND SO I WAS JUST BRINGING IT UP.

[INAUDIBLE] AM I MISSING ANYTHING DO YOU THINK? THANK YOU.

>> SEEING NOTHING FURTHER, WE ARE A LITTLE BIT OFF SCHEDULE, BUT I WANT TO GIVE YOU A FULL 10-MINUTE BREAK, SO LET'S COME BACK AT 3:04, SO [INAUDIBLE] STARTS AT 3:04.

>> WE ARE INTO OPENING OF OUR LAST PRESENTATION FOR THE DAY.

WE SLIT IT TO GO UNTIL FOUR O'CLOCK, BUT WE NEED TO BE A LITTLE FLEXIBLE WITH TIME.

WE HAVE SOME [INAUDIBLE] MORE IMPORTANT TO GET THE CONVERSATION THAT WE NEED TO HAVE.

THEN WE'LL DO PUBLIC COMMENT, WRAP UP, AND GET YOU MOVING ON TO YOUR NEXT THING.

[INAUDIBLE] DO YOU WANT TO [INAUDIBLE].

>> CHIEF MUSSELMAN WILL KICKOFF AND I'LL INTRODUCE OUR SPEAKER OR ARE YOU DOING THAT? [BACKGROUND]

>> COULD YOU QUIET IT?

>> KIDS. [LAUGHTER]

>> SO THAT WE CAN PICK IT UP CORRECTLY ON THE SPEAKERS [INAUDIBLE].

>> THANK YOU. DEPUTY CHIEF, KICK IT OFF PLEASE.

>> THANK YOU, APPRECIATE IT.

I'M GOING TO BE JUST GIVING A SHORT PRESENTATION TO ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL ON SOME CAPITAL ITEMS THAT WE NEED TO PUT IN FRONT OF YOU THAT ARE CURRENTLY UNFUNDED.

FIRE CHIEF MARK GILLARD AND CHIEF DAN MUSSELMAN HERE AS OUR TECHNICAL EXPERT TO ADD IF YOU HAVE FURTHER QUESTIONS.

BUT AWAY FROM THAT, WE'LL KICK THINGS OFF.

WE WANTED TO JUST MAKE EVERYBODY AWARE OF SOME REALITIES ASSOCIATED WITH BOTH PUBLIC SAFETY ENTITIES SPECIFIC TO RADIO EQUIPMENT AND REPLACEMENT.

CURRENTLY, AS YOU ALL KNOW THAT WE WENT INTO A CONTRACT AND WE ESTABLISHED A CENTRALIZED RADIO SOFTWARE SYSTEM AND OVERALL BACKBONE TO SUPPORT PUBLIC SAFETY WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.

WE HAVE A LOT OF REPEATERS TOWERS THAT ARE UP ON THE ELDEN IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS TO ASSIST US IN BOTH [INAUDIBLE] AND VHF PROCESS FOR OUR ABILITY TO DISPATCH THREE OR [INAUDIBLE] DISPATCH EMERGENCY SYSTEM.

THESE ARE GETTING OLDER. WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION OF WHAT THE SOFTWARE NEEDS ARE, TALKED WITH A LOT OF VENDORS, AND AS A RESULT OF THAT WE HAVE NEEDS IN THREE DIFFERENT AREAS.

WE HAVE NEEDS ON THE ACTUAL REPEATER TOWERS THEMSELVES, WE HAVE NEEDS TO REPLACE THE HANDHELD RADIOS AND THE MOBILE RADIOS.

WE ENTERED INTO AGREEMENT WITH MOTOROLA YEARS AGO FOR SOFTWARE UPDATES.

THEY'RE UPDATING THE SOFTWARE, BUT UNFORTUNATELY OUR HARDWARE IS NOT KEEPING UP WITH THOSE UPDATES THAT ARE AVAILABLE.

RADIOS CURRENTLY THAT WE HAVE IN OUR UNITS, AND THIS IS ACROSS NOT ONLY THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, BUT ALSO DIFFERENT DIVISIONS WITHIN CITY PUBLIC WORKS, STREETS, CITY HALL, FACILITY [INAUDIBLE], THESE UNITS ARE 10 YEARS OLD.

THE RECOMMENDED LIFE SPAN IS SEVEN FOR THEM.

I DO WANT TO PAUSE REAL QUICK AND JUST SAY THAT WHILE OUR RADIOS ARE 10 YEARS OLD, THEY'RE STILL OPERATIONAL.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT IF WE HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH THEM, THEY BECOME DAMAGED, WE'RE UNABLE TO REPLACE THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE NO LONGER SERVICEABLE, AND SO AS A RESULT WE HAVE SOME BUILT-UP DEMAND THAT CONTINUES TO CREATE ISSUES.

YOU HAVE THE SECONDARY THING IS, SINCE THEY'RE 10 YEARS OLD, WE HAVE A LOT OF EQUIPMENT.

WE JUST WERE RECENTLY THE RECIPIENTS OF ABOUT A $600,000 GRANT FOR SCBA EQUIPMENT.

THAT GRANT CAPACITY HAS BLUETOOTH.

THESE RADIOS DO NOT TALK BLUETOOTH.

NOT ONLY ARE THEY FUNCTIONAL, BUT THEY'RE ANTIQUATED AND WE CAN'T REPLACE THEM.

THE COST OF REPLACEMENT THAT WE IDENTIFIED IS $2.75 MILLION AND THAT IS UNFUNDED CAPITAL RIGHT NOW.

WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR NECESSARILY EVERYTHING TO BE REPLACED AT ONCE.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

WE DO THINK THAT THERE'S VALUE IN REPLACING ESPECIALLY THE HANDHELDS AND THE MOBILES OVER TIME SO THAT WE DON'T GET INTO THIS SAME PREDICAMENT IN 7-10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD.

AS A WHOLE, I JUST WANT TO MAKE EVERYBODY AWARE OF THE TOTAL COSTS.

THAT OUR REAL BIG SPECIFICS ARE THE REPEATERS, AND TO START THE PROCESS TO REPLACE THIS EQUIPMENT SPECIFICALLY IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT ON THE HANDHELD SIDE TO BE ABLE TO TALK BLUETOOTH WITH OUR UPGRADED EQUIPMENT.

>> NEXT SLIDE WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IS FIRE DEPARTMENT, SPECIFIC.

THIS IS FOR ALL RISK OPERATIONS.

WE KEPT A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS OVER THE YEARS REGARDING THE NEW TYPE OF INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S COMING INTO THE COMMUNITY.

WHEN WE LOOK AT IT AS A FIRST SERVICE PROVIDER, THERE'S A LOT OF CHALLENGES THAT COME ALONG WITH IT.

ONE OF THOSE ARE THE TYPE OF EQUIPMENT THAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY MANAGE INCIDENTS WITHIN THIS NEW TYPE OF BUILDING CONFIGURATION.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE FREQUENTS.

WE WANT TO MAKE IT REALLY CLEAR THAT FOR OUR NEEDS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY,

[05:35:03]

ONE QUINT THAT WE HAVE EXCEEDS THE NFPA RECOMMENDATION AND IS AT THE MAX OF THE CITY'S RECOMMENDATION FOR ITS REPLACEMENT TIME, WHICH IS 20-25 YEARS.

THAT QUINT IS A 1997 CURRENTLY.

ON THAT QUINT ALONE, WE'VE IDENTIFIED THROUGH SOME OTHER OPPORTUNITIES.

IN ONE QUINT, WE COULD REPLACE WITH POSSIBLY, I'LL LET MR. [INAUDIBLE] ACTUAL DOLLARS AND CENTS AND COLOR OF MONEY WITH FUNDINGS FROM OUR DIFFERENT AVAILABLE ACCOUNTS OUTSIDE OF THE GENERAL FUND SPECIFICALLY IMPACT THESE.

BUT WE NEED TO REPLACE ONE MORE.

WE HAVE ONE ADDITIONAL QUINT THAT HAS TO BE REPLACED.

THE OTHER COINS, THE THIRD ONE WOULD BE IN A RESERVE STATUS.

RIGHT NOW IT'S IMPORTANT TO JUST RECOGNIZE WE'RE THE ONLY QUINT SERVICE, LADDER SERVICE AND THAT'S WHAT THAT MEANS IS HOW MANY PIECES OF EQUIPMENT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT UNIT.

THAT LADDER IS THE ONLY LADDER IN ALL OF NORTHERN ARIZONA.

NEXT LADDER PARTNERS WOULD COME OUT OF THE VALLEY.

THIS IS A NEED HERE THAT WE HAVE LOCALLY.

THE OTHER THING I WANT TO IDENTIFY, HOPKINS COLLINS SAYS, WE'VE EXTENDED THEM OUT.

WE DO NOT RUN THOSE AS FRONTLINE UNITS.

THEY ARE BACKUP UNITS THAT WE RUN IF WE NEED IT FOR A SPECIFIC TYPE OF CALL, WE DO NOT RUN THEM FROM LINE TO EMS CALLS.

IF YOU SEE IT RUNNING TO EMS CALLS IT'S FOR ONE OR TWO REASONS.

SOMETHING ELSE IS BROKEN.

WE HAVE POLICE SERVICE OR WE OCCASIONALLY DO QUINT TRAINING BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A SPECIFIC TECHNICAL PIECE OF APPARATUS THAT WE PUT IT IN EVERY CELL OCTAVE AS A FRONTLINE.

ONE QUICK THING ON QUINTS.

THE LAST THREE YEARS.

THIS IS A TRUE AND FACTUAL NUMBER, 55 PERCENT OF THE YEAR.

ONE OF THESE QUINTS IS EITHER AN OPEN TICKET FOR REPAIR OR COMPLETELY OUT OF SERVICE.

THIS IS A NEED. THE NEXT ONE IS OR ALWAYS PUMPER.

WE WORKED REALLY DILIGENTLY WITH THE PLEAD.

ABOUT SIX YEARS AGO, WE DEVELOPED REPLACEMENT SCHEDULE TO ALLOW US TO HELP BALANCE OUT THE FLEET MONEY THAT'S AVAILABLE THROUGH THE ENTIRE CITY.

THAT'S WORKED REALLY GOOD.

WE KNEW EIGHT YEARS AGO THOUGH, THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A POINT WHERE WE HAVE REPLACED THAT MEANS THAT WE WOULD EXCEED THE FUNDING AVAILABLE, WERE THERE.

WE HAVE A NEED FOR AN ONEROUS PROPER OUTSIDE OF WHAT IS ALREADY BEING REPLACED AND FUNDED.

THAT'S GOING TO BE TO THE TUNE OF $850,000.

THAT'S A 21-YEAR-OLD NEEDED.

IN OUR CURRENT CONFIGURATION WITH THE CITY.

THE RECOMMENDATION IS 20-25.

THE NATIONAL STANDARD IS 15 YEARS.

INCIDENCE THAT RUN TO OUR LEVEL.

THE NUMBER OF CALLS WE RUN 10.

WE'VE EXTENDED IT BEYOND AND WE'RE GETTING THE MAXIMUM, BUT WE'RE BEGINNING TO SEE SOME SIGNIFICANT BREAKDOWN.

THE NEXT ONE IS [BACKGROUND] FIRE APPARATUS.

ALONG WITH ALL OF THOSE WE HAVE ABOUT WELL PIECES OF APPARATUS.

WE HAVE SOME OF THEM SCHEDULED FOR REPLACEMENT.

UNFORTUNATELY, TWO OF THE WELFARE ENGINES ARE NOT IN THAT REPLACEMENT SCHEDULE SLIPS AND THESE LITTLE INSURABLE, WHO REALLY KNOWS TO CREATE ENGINES.

THE LAST THREE YEARS AND SPECIFICALLY THE LAST YEAR, BOTH OF THESE TYPES, THREE ENGINES THAT WE USE FOR WELFARE CALL OUT, WERE OUT OF SERVICE OR HAVE IT OPEN TICKET 25-27 PERCENT OF THE YEAR.

>> WELL, IT LOOKS VINTAGE. [LAUGHTER].

>> THANK YOU. [OVERLAPPING] WE TRIED, DIDN'T WORK CERTAINLY WELL.

BUT THOSE ARE OUR FRONTLINE EFFECTS. THOSE ARE WHAT WE RUN.

WE ALSO HAVE IDENTIFIED $1.8 MILLION FOR RUMOR NEEDS TO THE FACTORIES AND TO THE WATER CHANNELS.

THE WATER TENDERS ARE ALSO WOULDN'T TWO YEARS OLD.

HOPEFULLY, FOR THE WILDFIRE, 2.3 CONFIGURATION UNITS, THE COINAGE, AND 2.75 WERE THE RADIO EQUIPMENT.

BEFORE I TURN IT OVER TO THE COLOR OF MONEY AND MR. TATTERED OR THERE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS I CAN ANSWER AT THIS TIME.

>> THE ACHIEVED, WE HAVE SALVAGE VALUE, I WOULD IMAGINE IF WE DO WANT THESE VEHICLES TO DO GET EXPIRED AND MOVED OUT WITH THE FLEET, OR DO WE KEEP THEM FOR OTHER PURPOSES?

>> TYPICALLY, WE SELL THEM.

IF WE KEEP ANYTHING, IT'S BECAUSE IT'S WITHIN THE RANGE LIKE THIS ONE.

THAT THIRD, WE WOULD COME IN AND SERVE STATUS.

OTHERWISE, THE EQUIPMENT AND THE METHODOLOGY OF THE BILL, THE SCHEMATICS, AND ALL THE SAFETY EQUIPMENT THAT GO WITH IT OR SO WE HAD EQUATED AS YOU'RE BETTER OFF SELLING IT THE MINUTE THAT YOU TRY TO REPLACE IT, THEN THEY HANG ONTO IT.

>> I SEE IT. SELLING IT THEN, WE COULD RECOUP SOME OF THAT MONEY.

WHAT ANY ROUGH IDEA PERCENTAGE-WISE WHERE WE WOULD PRETTY VACUUM BY SELLING THESE TO SOMEBODY?

>> IN FPA AFTER YOU GET OVER 15 YEARS,

[05:40:01]

WHICH IS THAT NATIONAL STANDARD, YOU'RE LOOKING AT PROBABLY A 20 MAXIMUM OF A 20-25 PERCENT OF ITS ORIGINAL VALUE MAXIMUM.

>> THANK YOU.

>> NEXT.

>> YEAH. IS THERE OPPORTUNITIES AS THE TECHNOLOGY ADVANCED ENOUGH TO GET AN ELECTRIC FENCE OR ALL-RISK PUMPERS WHICH ARE HAVING TEN AND STILL RATHER THAN THE DIESEL IN THE PUBLIC JUST NUMBERS?

>> WE HAVE A GREAT QUESTION.

THERE IS A AND WHEN I SAY, A, WHEN MANUFACTURER THAT HAS DEVELOPED AN ELECTRIC ENGINE.

THERE'S SOME QUESTIONS THAT THEY HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER TO OUR SET ELEVATION OR CONDITIONS OR SNOW AND OUR COLD.

THOSE ARE HUGE QUESTIONS.

IT'S ALSO A PROTOTYPE THAT'S GETTING KIDS ACTUALLY IN LOS ANGELES.

THE FIRST ONE, WE'VE LOOKED AT IT, WE'VE GONE THROUGH IT THAT THERE'S TOO MANY QUESTIONS TO ANSWER AT THIS POINT IN TIME, AND THE COST OF THEM ARE DOUBLE.

ABOUT 1.75 FOR THE INTERNAL COST RIGHT HERE.

FOR AN ELECTRIC ONE, YOU'RE SPENDING ABOUT 1.4,1.5 MILLION.

>> OKAY.

>> YES, IT WAS COMING.

BUT THEY'RE NOT HERE AND AVAILABLE TO THE POINT OF OUR DEMAND OF WHAT WE NEED FOR REPLACEMENT.

BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT EVERY SINGLE PIECE.

QUINT, THERE IS NO OPTIONS.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU. [OVERLAPPING]

>> IN THE APPRECIATION OF THE VEHICLES DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO TRY TO FIND SOME OF THESE REPLACEMENTS USED LIKE A LIBRARY IS USED CONDITION?

>> THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER SIMONY.

WHAT I CAN'T TELL YOU IS FIVE YEARS AGO WE DID OUR FIRST REFURBISHED PURCHASE.

WE PURCHASED A USED ENGINE FROM CLARK COUNTY, LAS VEGAS AND WE PUT IT IN SERVICE.

WE HAVE IT COMPLETELY GUTTED.

WE SPENT ABOUT 60 PERCENT OF THE COST OF A NEW ENGINE WITH AN EXPECTATION THAT WE WOULD GET 10 YEARS OUT OF IT.

WE HAVE FOUND IS THAT SIX YEARS TIME INTO THIS, SINCE WE'VE PURCHASED THIS, WE'VE SPENT AS MUCH MONEY INTO THAT AS WE WOULD'VE BEEN COOL TO PURCHASE NEW.

THE SHORT ANSWER IS THAT VALUE IS NOT THERE FOR THE AMOUNT OF CALLS THAT WE RUN AND THE WORK THAT WE PUT ON THESE UNITS, IT'S NOT WORTH IT.

THAT'S UNFORTUNATE PART NOW THE ONE OR TWO INTEGERS, A POSSIBILITY.

BUT AGAIN, WHEN YOU START GOING BEYOND THE RECOMMENDATION OF THAT 20-25 YEARS, YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL BECAUSE THE TECHNOLOGY AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS SO ANTIQUATED THAT IT BECOMES CHALLENGING TO BE ABLE TO SAFELY USE IT FOR ALL THEIR NEEDS FOR THE NEXT 10-15 YEARS.

>> JUST A QUICK NOTE ABOUT SAYING I WAS JUST SAYING THAT'S 20 YEARS OLD, FIVE YEARS OLD, OBVIOUSLY, I IMAGINE THOSE WHO BUY THOSE VEHICLES NEW, MAYBE THE ONES SELL THEM RIGHT AWAY.

>> YOU'RE RIGHT.

>> MAYBE IT'S HARD TO FIND?

>> YOU'RE RIGHT.

>> WHY DOES IT ALWAYS POSSIBLE.

I'M GOING TO BE A GOOD AMOUNT OF MONEY?

>> THE MARKET, YOU WILL FIND THOSE UNITS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO EVERY REPURCHASES WHAT HE WAS ALLUDING TO, WHAT'S OURS IS GOING TO BRING IN ITS DEPARTMENTS LIKE TESTS THAT RUN THEM AND THEY CAN'T USE THEM AFTER 15 YEARS.

THAT'S WHAT'S AVAILABLE OUT THROUGH THOSE SHORT DURATIONS.

OTHERWISE, SOMETHING'S GOING TO BE EXTREMELY WRONG FOR A FIRE DEPARTMENT THAT HAVE A 15-YEAR YOUNGER ENGINE PERCENT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> [INAUDIBLE].

>> [OVERLAPPING] BOY, TO GO JUST BEFORE LUNCH AND JUST BEFORE WE WRAP UP.

[LAUGHTER] YOU PUT THE ITEM FAST OF ALL THAT THEY'RE RUNNING AT THE BOTTOM.

[BACKGROUND] [LAUGHTER] COME ON, LET'S FILL IT BACK UP.

FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT ITEMS LIKE THIS, THESE ARE PRIMARILY GENERAL TRAINING TYPE RESOURCES THAT WE NEED TO BRING TO THE TABLE.

JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS JUST TO KEEP IN MIND JUST TO BREAK THE ICE.

[LAUGHTER] YOU KNOW, THE GUY, MONOPOLY MAN. I'M SORRY.

[BACKGROUND][LAUGHTER] ] I POSTED IT.

[LAUGHTER] [BACKGROUND] THE TOOLBOX MAY LOOK A LITTLE DIFFERENT, BUT THERE'S MANY TOOLS THAT ARE SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SAW TO THE ENTERPRISE BEEN SOLUTIONS.

JUST A SUMMARY, YOU JUST HEARD THIS, SO I DON'T REALLY NEED TO WALK THROUGH THIS VERY MUCH.

THERE'S ABOUT $6.9 MILLION NEED FROM OUR PUBLIC STATE, THE AREAS THAT ARE LOOKING TO BE ADDRESSED IN SOME MANNER.

LET'S GO TO THE TOOLBOX.

THE TOOLBOX, THIS IS ONE WHERE WE CAN SEE THINGS SHIFTED.

AGAIN, I'M TRYING TO START FROM THE MORE LIKELY RESOURCES DOWN TO THEM.

THESE ARE PROBABLY NOT THINGS WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT IT AND GO FOR IT.

TOP OF THE LIST IS GENERAL FUND ALLOCATIONS,

[05:45:02]

PAY AS YOU GO, GET THINGS REPLACED OUT OF OUR ANNUAL APPROPRIATIONS.

AS WE KNOW, THAT'S WHAT WE CALL THE BUDGET PROCESS.

THAT HAS A LOT OF TARGET TOWING ABOUT RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE TO COMMIT INTO OUR OPERATIONS AND CAPITAL AND SO FORTH. <