>> SOUNDS GOOD. SO LET'S PROCEED THEN ON OUR CALL THIS JUNE 15TH,
[1. Call to Order NOTICE OF OPTION TO RECESS INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION Pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.02, notice is hereby given to the members of the Heritage Preservation Commission and to the general public that, at this regular meeting, the Heritage Preservation Commission may vote to go into executive session, which will not be open to the public, for legal advice and discussion with the City’s attorneys for legal advice on any item listed on the following agenda, pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.03(A)(3).]
[00:00:05]
2022 MEETING OF THE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION FOR THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF TO ORDER AT 4:03 PM AND WE WILL TAKE ROLL CALL.>> MR. CHAIRMAN, I WILL DO ROLL CALL.
>> COMMISSIONER CAITLIN KELLY.
>> CHARLIE WEBER. I BELIEVE HE'S ABSENT.
EXCUSED. COMMISSIONER AMY HORN.
>> DO YOU LIKE ME TO READ THE ACKNOWLEDGMENT OR SOMEONE ELSE?
>> I WAS THINKING WE MIGHT TAKE TURNS
[3. LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT The Heritage Preservation Commission humbly acknowledges the ancestral homelands of this area’s Indigenous nations and original stewards. These lands, still inhabited by Native descendants, border mountains sacred to Indigenous peoples. We honor them, their legacies, their traditions, and their continued contributions. We celebrate their past, present, and future generations who will forever know this place as home.]
DOING THE ACKNOWLEDGMENTS SO I'M NOT JUST DOING IT EVERY SINGLE TIME.I DID IT LAST SO I'LL NOMINATE EMILY TO READ AT THIS TIME.
>> SOUNDS GREAT. LET ME JUST PULL IT UP.
WE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A LAND ACKNOWLEDGMENT AS THE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION HUMBLY ACKNOWLEDGES THE ANCESTRAL HOMELANDS, SO THIS IS INDIGENOUS NATIONS AND ORIGINAL STEWARDS.
THESE LANDS STILL INHABITED BY NATIVE DESCENDANTS FOR THE MOUNTAIN SACRED TO INDIGENOUS PEOPLES.
WE HONOR THEM, THEIR LEGACIES, THEIR TRADITIONS, AND THEIR CONTINUED CONTRIBUTIONS.
WE CELEBRATE THEIR PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE GENERATIONS WHO WILL FOREVER KNOW THIS PLACE AS HOME.
>> THANK YOU, EMILY. YOU CAN NOMINATE SOMEONE TO DO IT NEXT TIME.
[4. Public Comment At this time, any member of the public may address the Commission on any subject within their jurisdiction that is not scheduled before the Commission on that day. Due to Open Meeting Laws, the Commission cannot discuss or act on items presented during this portion of the agenda. To address the Commission on an item that is on the agenda, please wait for the Chair to call for Public Comment at the time the item is heard.]
DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS ON ANY ITEMS THAT ARE NOT ON THE AGENDA? FOR THOSE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO ARE LISTENING IF YOU HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT ON ANY OF THE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA WE'LL TAKE THE COMMENT AT THAT TIME.DO WE HAVE ANY? IF SO PLEASE SPEAK UP.
>> HI, THIS IS DUFFIE WESTHEIMER AND I JUST WOULD LIKE TO OFFER TO COMMISSION MEMBERS A TOUR THAT I DO FOR PEOPLE OF THE HISTORIC TOWN SITE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I THINK OVERALL, MORE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE AREA COULD HELP WHEN YOU ARE FACED WITH DECISIONS FOR THIS AREA.
IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE IT AS A GROUP OR INDIVIDUALLY OR WHATEVER LET ME KNOW.
PEOPLE SEEM TO LIKE THE TOUR A LOT. THAT'S IT.
>> THANK YOU, DUFFIE. DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE [NOISE] SO WE WILL MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT ITEM WHICH IS APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF THE MAY 18TH MEETING.
[5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Approve the Minutes of the May 18, 2022 Heritage Preservation Commission Meeting.]
IF WE CAN GET A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR THOSE APPROVALS.>> I MOVE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE MAY 18TH, 2022 HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING.
>> THAT'S A MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER DALE AND A SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER KELLY.
>> ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS.
THE MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY.
THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED AND WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE PUBLIC HEARING
[A. 803 W Aspen Ave -Certificate of Appropriateness PROPERTY INFORMATION: Address: 803 W Aspen Ave. Assessor's Parcel Number: 100-24-019 Property Owner: Greg & Robin Hadden Applicant: Karl Eberhard, Architect representing the Haddens City Staff: Mark Reavis, HPO REQUESTED ACTION: Certificate of Appropriateness of demolition of primary home and a new replacement primary home to meet Townsite Overlay design review requirements. RECOMMENDED ACTION: Approve a Certificate of Appropriateness with conditions per Recommended Motion (see Staff Report)]
FOR 803 WEST ASPEN AVENUE AND A SIGNIFICANT OF APPROPRIATENESS.MARK ARE WE GOING TO TAKE, I ALWAYS FORGET, YOU FIRST OR THE APPLICANT FIRST?
I THINK IT'S A CORRECT ORDER, MR. CHAIRMAN.
>> THEN AGAIN, I'M SORRY MARK, JUST FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC AND ALL BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ON FOR THIS ITEM, WE'LL TAKE A PRESENTATION FROM STAFF FIRST AND THEN A PRESENTATION FROM APPLICANTS.
ANY QUESTIONS THAT THE COMMISSIONERS MIGHT HAVE FOR EITHER OF THOSE THEN PUBLIC COMMENTS AND THEN DISCUSSION. THANK YOU.
>> MR. CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE MEMBERS, THIS IS A REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR A HOME THAT INCLUDES THE DEMOLITION OF THE PRIMARY HOME, WHICH HAS RECEIVED REVIEW AND APPROVAL AS NON CONTRIBUTING TO THE TOWN SITE.
AND THEN THIS CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS IS FOR THE DESIGN OF A NEW HOME WITH THE RETENTION OF THE SMALLER HISTORIC HOME IN THE BACK OF A LOT TOWARD THE SOUTH.
I BELIEVE THE BEST THING I CAN DO IS READ TO SUBMIT IT, COMMENTS.
THEY'RE FAIRLY LONG, BUT I THINK THEY EXPRESS
[00:05:02]
A CONCERN OF A NEIGHBORING PROPERTY TO THE WEST.THIS ONE IS FROM ELLEN RYAN, LOCATED AT 807, WHICH I ADDRESSED INCORRECTLY.
THEIR HOME IS AT 807 WEST ASPEN AVENUE.
IT'S AS FOLLOWS, THANK YOU FOR READING THESE COMMENTS AND ALLOWING ME TO VOICE MY CONCERN.
MY HUSBAND AND I ARE THE NEIGHBORS [OVERLAPPING]
>> I'M SORRY MARK I'M GOING TO HAVE TO CUT YOU OFF.
WE'RE NOT READING COMMENTS INTO MEETINGS ANYMORE NOW THE PROTOCOLS ARE OVER.
IF THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO MAKE THEIR COMMENT ARE HERE THEY CAN DO SO DURING THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD.
BUT OTHERWISE, THERE'S NO PROVISION FOR COMMENTS TO BE READ INTO THE MEETING.
THAT WAS JUST SIMPLY SOMETHING WE WERE DOING WHILE IT WAS COVID AND PEOPLE WEREN'T ABLE TO SPEAK.
SO IT LOOKS LIKE I SEE SOME RYAN'S ON THE [INAUDIBLE] [OVERLAPPING].
>> DID YOU HEAR THAT, MS. RYAN?
>> YES, I DID AND I CAN READ MY COMMENTS AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME.
>> THANKS, MARK. DO YOU WANT TO GO ON WITH THE REST OF YOUR PRESENTATION?
>> YES. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M AVAILABLE TO INTERPRET THE TOWN SITE OVERLAY GUIDELINES AND ALSO THE STANDARDS, MAKE CLEAR THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE STANDARDS THAT THEY ARE THE ABSOLUTES TYPE OF REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE CLEARLY STATED.
GUIDELINES ARE THOSE ITEMS WHICH PROVIDE GUIDANCE AND THEN THERE'S ALSO DEFINITIONS.
SOME OF THE TERMS THAT ARE INDICATED ARE ARCHITECTURAL SO THERE MAY BE DIFFERENT OPINIONS ON SUCH THINGS AS SIZE VERSUS MASS AND MASSING.
JUST KNOW THAT I'M AVAILABLE TO CLARIFY SOME OF THOSE TERMS IF PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THOSE.
AS I SAID, THE PRIMARY HOUSE IS NON CONTRIBUTING.
THE APPLICANTS HAVE HIRED AN ARCHITECT TO DESIGN A HOUSE.
THE INTENT OF THE ARCHITECT WAS TO MEET THE STANDARDS ASSOCIATED WITH THE PROJECT.
AS FAR AS PICKING AN ARCHITECTURAL STYLE, SELECTING FORMS, LOOKING AT THE STANDARDS THAT ARE ISSUED, HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS, MEETING THE 27 FOOT LIMITATION WITH SUCH THING AS THE CHIMNEY ALLOWED TO EXCEED THAT, THE HOUSE FORM ADDRESSES, THE PRIMARY STREET THAT IT'S ADDRESSED ON, WHICH IS ASPEN AVENUE.
TOWARD THE BACK IT STEPS DOWN TO FINALLY, A GARAGE SPACE.
FAIRLY LARGE SITES WITH THE TWO STRUCTURES ON IT.
ALSO, THE PROJECT WILL HAVE TO MEET THE UNDERLYING ZONING AND THEN THE OVERLAY ON TOP OF THAT.
THE ARCHITECTS PREPARED ARCHITECTURAL RENDERINGS OF THE PROJECT WITH VARIOUS OPTIONS AND HAS LOOKED AT MEETING THOSE DESIGN STANDARDS.
THE ONE THING I'LL MAKE NOTE OF IS THE GUIDELINE REGARDING PRIVACY.
I'VE LEFT THAT FAIRLY OPEN ON HOW THAT'S ADDRESSED.
I MADE SOME SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO DO THAT.
THERE ARE OTHER ARCHITECTURAL WAYS TO INCREASE PRIVACY ON THE WEST PROTECTING THE NEIGHBOR'S PRIVACY AS ONE OF THE GUIDELINES IN THE OVERLAY.
THAT'S PRETTY MUCH MY INITIAL PRESENTATION, AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS.
MR. CHAIRMAN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT OR WOULD YOU LIKE THE ARCHITECT TO PRESENT THE PROJECTS OR YOU'RE MORE FAMILIAR WITH IT?
LET'S HAVE KARL GO AHEAD AND MAKE HIS PRESENTATION.
KARL, WE'VE GOT A PRETTY BUSY SCHEDULED TODAY SO IF YOU DON'T MIND LIMITING THAT TO 15 MINUTES AND THEN WE'LL DO QUESTIONS FOR BOTH MARK AND KARL AT THAT TIME AND THEN PUBLIC COMMENT.
[00:10:05]
>> OKAY. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE THE MODEL THERE.
THAT'S INTERESTING THE WAY THAT IT DOES THAT.
NOW YOU KEEP GETTING THE WRONG SCREEN IS WHAT YOU'RE GETTING.
LET'S SEE HERE. WHERE THERE'S A WILL THERE'S A WAY.
>> YEAH. THAT'S WHAT WE WANT RIGHT THERE. THERE YOU HAVE IT.
SO WHAT I'M DOING HERE IS I'M ACTUALLY SHOWING YOU THE ACTUAL MODEL ITSELF AS OPPOSED TO THE DOCUMENTS THAT I SUBMITTED.
YOU CAN SEE A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THE NOTES AND LABELS ON THE DOCUMENT THAT I SUBMITTED.
BUT WORKING FROM THE MODEL GIVES US A CHANCE TO LOOK AROUND AND SEE HOW THINGS LOOK.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I TRY TO LOOK AT WAS LOOKING AT HOW TO MEET THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, BUT ALSO MEET THE GOALS OF MY CLIENT.
RIGHT NOW THE EXISTING HOUSE AND THIS PROPERTY GOES FROM THIS CORNER OVER HERE, ABOUT TO HERE, ABOUT TO HERE AND ABOUT TO HERE.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I DID IS I PULLED THE HOUSE MUCH FURTHER BACK THAN THIS AREA.
AND AGAIN THAT WAS PART OF THINKING ABOUT PRIVACY, BUT ALSO TRYING TO MAKE SO THE REQUIRED OPEN YARD IS REALISTICALLY USABLE FOR THIS PROPERTY.
WE OBVIOUSLY HAD A FAIR AMOUNT OF CHALLENGES WITH THE TWO STREET FRONTAGES THAT GAVE US SOME THINGS TO WORK ON.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS I ADDED TO THE DRAWINGS AND YOU MAY NOT HAVE IT IN YOUR PACKET, ALTHOUGH MARK HAS IT IS.
IS I'VE ADDED THE FOOTPRINTS OF THE ADJACENT PROPERTY HERE, WHICH CAN HELP US ALL UNDERSTAND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN ALL THE BUILDINGS.
SO AS YOU CAN SEE THAT THE GROUND FLOOR IS BASICALLY FAIRLY SIMPLE AS A MAIN, GREAT ROOM SPACE AND A SMALL TWO CAR GARAGE, BEDROOM, BATHROOM, LAUNDRY, AND THEN AN OFFICE SPACE UP IN THE FRONT.
THAT DOESN'T REALLY MEAN MUCH TO YOU GUYS, BUT YOU GET A CHANCE TO SEE IT.
SO TRY TO, AGAIN VARY THAT INTO THE ROOFS USING GOOD MASSING FOR THE BUILDINGS.
SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE OVERALL DESIGN OF THE BUILDING, YOU CAN SEE THAT IT'S PRETTY MUCH IN KEEPING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
HERE IS THE JASON HOUSE AND GETTING THE DRAWINGS, YOU MAY NOT HAVE THIS IN THERE YET, BUT I ADDED THAT IN SO WE CAN LOOK AT THAT AND TALK ABOUT IT TODAY BASED ON SOME OF THE COMMENTS FROM MARK.
SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE HOUSE FROM ASPEN, YOU GET A CHANCE TO SEE HOW IT LOOKS.
AND THEN THESE SHOULD ALL LINE UP WITH THE DRAWING YOU HAVE IN TERMS OF THEY'RE ALL TAKEN FROM THE SAME POSITION.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MARK BROUGHT UP WAS I HAD A GLASS RAILING DESIGN UP HERE AND THE CLIENT IS KEEN ON CHANGING THAT AND MARK, THAT'D BE GOOD TO MAKE THAT MORE PRIVATE.
SO I PROPOSED AS A SLAT DESIGN, THIS NOT EVEN A PICKET DESIGN.
SO IT'S REALLY SORT OF THE OPPOSITE OF A PICKET.
WHAT WOULD NORMALLY BE VOIDS ARE SOLIDS AND WHAT WOULD NORMALLY BE SOLIDS ARE VOID, SO IF YOU CAN SEE HOW THAT WORKS.
SO THESE ARE JUST SLATS INSTEAD OF PICKETS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT THIS, IS TO UNDERSTAND THE PRIVACY FROM HOW TO DO BUILDINGS RELATE TO EACH OTHER, THE TWO PROPERTIES.
SO HERE YOU CAN SEE, IT'S A LITTLE OUT OF ZOOM HERE BECAUSE MY MACHINE IS BEING CRAZY.
SO THIS IS THE FRONT HOUSE ON 807, I THINK IT IS.
SO THAT DECK IS BASICALLY AT THEIR ROOF LEVEL AND TOWARD THE BACK OF THE HOUSE.
THEIR YARD WOULD BE BACK HERE BETWEEN THEIR TWO BUILDINGS, AND THEN THIS IS THEIR BACK BUILDING.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'LL NOTICE IS THAT THIS PROJECT HAS PROPOSED AND THIS IS ON THE FRONT PAGE OF YOUR PACKET.
THIS PROJECT ACTUALLY MEETS THE HEIGHT LIMIT.
THIS LINE HERE BEING THE HEIGHT LIMIT RIGHT THERE.
THIS IS THE BUILDING ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT FROM AZTEC, YOU GET ANOTHER VIEW OF IT.
AND I THINK I'M GOING TO KEEP IT SHORT.
YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, IT HELPS WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE BUILDINGS TOGETHER THIS IS WHY I ADDED THESE IN,
[00:15:02]
SO WE TRY TO MAKE SO THAT THE ADDED HEIGHTS WAS BACK HERE SO THAT WE COULD PRESERVE SUNLIGHT AND PRESERVE PRIVACY.YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD ON AN URBAN LOT TO MAKE SO THAT YOU NEVER SEE YOUR NEIGHBOR, NEVER TALK TO YOUR NEIGHBOR.
BUT I THINK THAT THIS IS A VERY SMALL BEDROOM WINDOW.
THIS IS A WINDOW ON THE STAIRWELL WHICH NOBODY'S GOING TO REALLY HANG OUT AT.
AND THEN WE TOOK THE ENTIRE BUILDING, WHICH RIGHT NOW IS THAT THIS LINE AND PUSHED IT ALL THE WAY BACK TO HERE FOR THERE'S ANY WINDOWS AND DOORS SO PEOPLE CAN SEE THEIR BACKYARD.
SO WE DID MAKE AN EFFORT TO WORK WITH THAT.
SO I THINK PROBABLY THE BEST BET IS WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR QUESTIONS, IF YOU HAVE ANY, I'M PRETTY MUCH COMFORTABLE WITH PROVIDING SOMETHING THAT IS A GOOD, HIGH-QUALITY DESIGN.
IT DEFINITELY MEETS THE DESIGN STANDARDS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I CAN APPRECIATE CONCERNS ABOUT SIZE, BUT IT IS UNFORTUNATELY OR FORTUNATELY, DEPENDS HOW YOU LOOK AT IT, WELL WITHIN THE ZONING AND THE TOWN SITE GUIDELINES.
SO THAT I'LL SURRENDER MY TIME TO QUESTIONS.
>> THANK YOU KARL, I APPRECIATE IT.
DO ANY OF THE COMMISSION MEMBERS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR KARL OR MARK AT THIS POINT? EMILY GO AHEAD.
>> YEAH. I'M STILL A LITTLE CONFUSED ABOUT THE TIMELINE OF THIS PROJECT.
IT LOOKS LIKE IT ORIGINALLY CAME BEFORE THE COMMISSION IN 2015.
KARL AND MARK, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH THE HISTORY OF THIS PROJECT?
>> I'LL TAKE A STAB AT IT. THIS IS KARL.
WHEN I WAS WITH THE CITY, THEY WERE COMING THROUGH LOOKING TO DO AN ADDITION TO THE HOUSE THAT EXISTS ON THE PROPERTY, THEY WERE HAVING CHALLENGES MAKING THAT ADDITION WORK OUT VERY WELL.
THEY WENT AWAY FOR AWHILE AND THEN MAYBE GREG WANTS TO ANSWER THAT.
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY WHEN THEY REACHED OUT TO ME, THEY HAD ALREADY CONCLUDED THAT WORKING WITH THE EXISTING HOUSE WAS NOT THE RIGHT ANSWER AND I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH THEM.
BY GETTING RID OF THE OLD HOUSE ALLOWS US TO CREATE ELEMENTS LIKE THIS PORCH AND OTHER FORM MODULATIONS THAT ARE MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
>> THIS IS GREG HADDEN, I'M THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY, SO I'M ON THIS CALL AS WELL.
SO I MEAN, I THINK KARL SUM THAT UP PRETTY WELL FOR US, SO I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS.
>> THANK YOU GREG. ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS?
>> MR. CHAIRMAN, JUST TO CLARIFY THAT THE SUBMISSION WAS TO LOOK AT WHETHER THE PROJECT WAS CONTRIBUTING OR NOT AND THE TERMINATION WAS THAT IT WAS NON CONTRIBUTING TO THE HISTORY.
>> MARK YOU'RE SAYING THAT 2015, THE PREVIOUS DECISION WAS JUST ON THE CONTRIBUTING NATURE OF THAT STRUCTURE? [OVERLAPPING]
>> WHICH WOULD BE AND THE REPORT WAS A FULL CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDY THAT MET OUR REQUIREMENTS.
>> I THINK THAT RESOURCE [OVERLAPPING] I'M SORRY.
>> THAT WAS THE ONLY ACTION MARK, BUT I KNOW THAT AT LEAST THE HBO, BUT I THINK EVEN THE BUCKET SOME EARLY DESIGNS.
>> YEAH. WE HAD A DIFFERENT VISION AT THAT TIME AND IT BECAME CLEAR FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS THAT WHAT WE HAD PLANNED TO DO AT THAT TIME JUST WASN'T REALLY SOMETHING THAT WE WANTED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH.
THAT'S WHY I GOT SHELVED AND IT'S JUST BEEN A RENTAL FOR US FOR SEVERAL YEARS.
WE'VE ALWAYS HELD ONTO THE DREAM OF SOMEDAY DOING SOMETHING WITH THAT PROPERTY.
FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, WE FEEL LIKE THE TIMING IS RIGHT AND WE CONTACTED KARL, WE SPOKEN WITH HIM OBVIOUSLY EARLIER AND SEVERAL YEARS EARLIER AND PUT TOGETHER THIS CONCEPT.
I AGREE THE CURRENT HOUSE NEEDS SOME PRETTY DRAMATIC STRUCTURAL ELECTRICAL PLUMBING WORK.
I THINK IT'S REALLY AT A BRANCH POINT.
IS IT GOING TO REMAIN THIS RENTAL AND WE JUST [NOISE] PUT BAND-AIDS ON ALL THESE THINGS OR WE GOING TO TURN IT INTO SOMETHING REAL SPECIAL?
>> THANK YOU. I'M NOT SEEING ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSION MEMBERS.
WE'LL TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS ITEM AT THIS TIME.
CAN YOU RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU'D LIKE TO MAKE A PUBLIC COMMENT.
YOU DO THAT BY PRESSING THE LITTLE HAND ICON AT THE BOTTOM OF
[00:20:03]
YOUR SCREEN AND I WILL TAKE THEM IN ORDER.MS. WESTHEIMER, IF YOU'D LIKE TO GO AHEAD.
>> THANK YOU. I WOULD SAY THAT THIS PROPOSED DEMOLITION, WHICH IF IT HAS A PERMIT, WAS NOT NOTICED BEFORE BEING ISSUED WILL ORPHAN THE PARTNER IN A SET OF WHAT WE CALL FAMILY HOUSES THAT MATCHES IN MASS BULK SCALE AND STILL HAS THE ORIGINAL MASONRY WALLS.
THE PROPOSED HOUSE BEFORE HE WAS DEFINITELY ATTRACTIVE AND HAS A HISTORIC FEEL.
HOWEVER, IT IS MUCH LARGER THAN ANY NEARBY HOUSE, ESPECIALLY THE HISTORIC HOUSES.
IT IS TALLER, BULKIER WITH THE FULL SECOND STORY AND COVERS MORE OF THE LOT THAN ANY HISTORIC HOUSE.
THERE'S MORE OF EVERYTHING IN THAT DESIGN THAN FOUND ON ANY HOUSE ON THE STREET IN THIS MODEST NEIGHBORHOOD.
IF DEMOLITION IS THE ONLY FUTURE THAT OWNER CAN ENVISION AN EQUALLY ATTRACTIVE AND FUNCTIONAL SMALLER HOUSES POSSIBLE AND COULD BE A NEIGHBORHOOD ASSET.
FURTHER NOTICE BEFORE YOU WILL SHIFT PEOPLE'S VISION TO THE NON-HISTORIC SCALE.
THIS DIFFERENT EXPECTATION WOULD THREATENED EVERY SMALLER, TRULY HISTORIC HOUSE AND THE OVERALL PROPORTION OF HISTORIC HOMES IN THE OVERLAY DISTRICT.
I KNOW THIS HIGHLY CAPABLE ARCHITECT CAN DESIGN SOMETHING SMALLER AND MORE APPROPRIATE FOR THE LOCATION.
BY THE WAY, THAT GYPSY WAGON IS WE CALL THIS STRUCTURE IN THE BACK, HAS BEEN MODIFIED AS MUCH AS THE FRONT HOUSE.
I KNOW BECAUSE I CAN SEE IT FROM WHERE I HAVE LIVED FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS.
I'VE ALSO NOTICED THAT THERE WAS NO PARKING ON THAT PLAN FOR THE GYPSY WAGON AND EVERYBODY HAS A CAR.
A NATIONAL REGISTER LISTINGS SAYING THAT A HOUSE IS NON-CONTRIBUTING PROPERTY IS NOT THE ONLY FRAME TO WHICH THE COMMISSION SHOULD CONSIDER A PROPOSAL FOR PROPERTY IN A LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.
PROPERTIES DO NOT STAND ALONE.
THEY RELATE TO OTHERS IN THE WHOLE DISTRICT.
MOST HOUSES IN THE TOWN SITE, HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT ARE ABOUT 16 FEET TALL AND LESS THAN 1,000 SQUARE FEET.
WHAT IS PROPOSED WOULD BE THREE TIMES THAT SIZE.
A NEW STRUCTURE IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT NEEDS TO BE COMPATIBLE IN TERMS OF MASS BALKANS SCALE, SITING ON THE LOT AND MORE CHARACTERISTICS.
NO ONE UNDER CONSTRUCTION SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO PUT THE TRUE HISTORIC BUILDINGS AT RISK OF LOOKING INSIGNIFICANT.
THREE HOMEOWNERS IN THAT BLOCK HAVE RECENTLY LITERALLY INVESTED IN THE HOMES WHERE THEY LIVE BY DOING BEAUTIFUL RESTORATIONS AND UPDATES.
NOT ONE MINIMIZE THE VALUE OF ANY HOUSE IN THE AREA BY CHANGING THE MASS IN A CHARACTER OF THEIR HOUSE.
IF ANY DEVELOPMENT OCCURS, IT NEEDS TO ENHANCE, NOT HAVE A NEGATIVE EFFECT ON THE WHOLE DISTRICT BY FOR EXAMPLE, SHIFTING THE OVERALL PROPORTION TO LARGER, MORE MODERN SCALE STRUCTURES.
RELATE THAT TO SPEED LIMITS MEAN THAT LIMIT SO THE STANDARDS IN THE OVERLAY ARE LIKE THEIR LIMIT SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO THAT HIGH.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO THAT BIG.
IT SHOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO THE LOCATION.
IN CLOSING, I'LL JUST SAY THAT JUST BECAUSE A SKILLED ARCHITECT CAN SQUEEZE INTO A DESIGN WHAT THE OWNER WANTS, DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT'S THE RIGHT DESIGN FOR THE LOCATION.
I HOPE THEY'LL MAKE IT SMALLER. THANK YOU.
MS. RYAN, IF YOU'D LIKE TO GO AHEAD.
SEE MY HUSBAND AND I ARE THE NEIGHBORS DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THE DEMOLITION OF [INAUDIBLE] ASPEN AND CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW HOUSE.
WE CONDUCTED AN EXTENSIVE REMODEL OF OUR HOUSE OF THE INTERIOR WHILE PRESERVING THE EXTERIOR HISTORIC MILL PI STONE.
WE ALSO STABILIZE THE EXTERIOR WALLS AND UPGRADED TO ENERGY EFFICIENT AND SUSTAINABLE FEATURES THREE YEARS AGO.
WE RECEIVED THE 2019 SUSTAINABLE BUILDING AWARD, GOLD CATEGORY FROM THE COCONINO COUNTY SUSTAINABLE BUILDINGS PROGRAM.
WE'RE ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT HEAVY CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENT DAMAGING OUR FRAGILE HISTORIC HOME, EVEN AFTER WE STABILIZE THE WALLS.
THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS, THE TOWN SITE DESIGN GUIDELINES RECOMMENDS DESIGN AS IF YOU ARE GOING TO LIVE NEXT DOOR.
THE INTENT IS TO PRESERVE HISTORICAL PATTERNS OF DEVELOPMENT, INCLUDING THE SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER AND PROPORTIONS AND THE TRADITIONAL RESIDENTIAL BUILDING FORMS AND PROPORTIONS.
NOW, SINCE THE OVERLAY WAS APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL, THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS NOT SEEN, DEMOLITION OF A HISTORIC SINGLE STORY HOUSE AND CONSTRUCTION OF A TWO-STORY, SIGNIFICANTLY MORE MASSIVE HOME.
AT LEAST FOUR HOMES ON THE 800 BLOCK, HAVE BEEN RENOVATED, REMODELED, OR RESTORED.
IN THE PAST DECADE WITHOUT BULKING UP LARGE HOMES ARE NOT THE NORM IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
[00:25:05]
ONE-HALF STORIES IS MORE IN KEEPING WITH THE TOWN SITE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE SURROUNDING HISTORIC STRUCTURES.I DO AGREE WITH ELIMINATING OR FROSTING THE SECOND FLOOR WINDOWS AND THE MASTER BEDROOM AND STAIRWELL ON THE WEST SIDE THAT WILL BE BENEFICIAL.
THE MASTER BEDROOM PORCH DOES NEED A MORE SOLID PARTITION.
I DON'T THINK THE SLAT RAIL AT A SHORT HEIGHT WOULD BE ENOUGH.
IT REALLY DOES OVERLOOK AND INTRUDE INTO MY HOUSE AND BACKYARD.
THAT DECK PORCH AREA LOOKS DOWN ON TWO BEDROOM WINDOWS.
THE MASTER BEDROOM WINDOWS TO THE SOUTHERN WEST ARE ALSO INTRUSIVE AS IT OVERLOOKS OUR HOME AND OUR BACKYARD.
THE FIRST FLOOR DECK TO THE WEST IS ALSO INTRUSIVE.
ON THE DRAWING YOU CAN SEE THAT IT COULD BE BUILT ALL THE WAY TO THE SIX-FOOT TALL FENCE TO THE WEST.
BUT THAT'S DECK STARTS AT TWO FEET OFF THE GROUND.
THE FENCING IS ONLY FOUR FEET WHERE PEOPLE CAN STAND ON THE DECK AND OVERLOOK THE FENCE TO THE WEST INTO OUR HOME AND YOURS.
I'M QUESTIONING IF IT'S APPROPRIATE TO BUILD THAT DECK ALL THE WAY THE FENCE LINE AND WITHIN THE SETBACK? I CAN JUST IMAGINE THE PROPERTY HAVING A HOT TUB OR BARBECUE ON THE DECK OR EVEN A GAZEBO OR PAVILION.
THE SOUTHERN END OF THE DECK LINES UP WITH THE BACK OF OUR HOME SO OUR BACKYARD IS FULLY VIEWED.
IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE INAPPROPRIATE DESIGN IN A NEIGHBORHOOD WITH SMALL LOPS.
THE HOUSE IS TOO BULKY AND MASSIVE TO TRY TO [INAUDIBLE] [NOISE] THE TWO PROPERTIES.
THE HOUSE WOULD BE BETTER SUITED FOR A LARGER LOT AND NOT A HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD WITH MANY SMALLER HOMES.
THE SECOND FLOOR MASSING OF THE NORTHWEST END OF THE HOME, WILL BLOCK LIGHT AND SOLAR GAIN TO MY FRONT YARD, MY FRONT PORCH AND ALL THE WINDOWS ALONG THE EAST SIDE OF MY HISTORIC HOME.
MY I QUESTION, WILL THE OPEN YARD BETWEEN THE TWO HOUSES 803 AND 803.5 REMAIN OPEN? I SEE A LOW PICKET FENCE ALONG THE EAST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY CONNECTING THE GARAGE TO THE ADU.
IT'S A FOUR BEDROOM HOME AND THE ADU IN THE BACK.
IS THERE ENOUGH PARKING FOR FOUR BEDROOM HOME ESPECIALLY IF ALL THE ROOMS BECOME RENTED? THEY ALL HAVE THEIR OWN BATHROOMS AND THERE'S THE ADU IN THE BACK.
THEN WHAT A FUTURE FENCE BE BUILT BETWEEN THE ADU IN THE NEW HOUSE, SPLITTING A THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT OPEN YARD.
BY DEMOING 803 WEST ASPENS, ONE-HALF OF AN OLD FAMILY PROPERTY OF MY HOME AND 803 WHERE HISTORICAL STONE BUILDINGS WERE BUILT IS BEING ERASED FROM THE HISTORY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
THERE ARE MANY EXAMPLES OF TWO SIMILAR HOMES CONSTRUCTED ON THE SAME PROPERTY.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE 1960S SANBORN MAP, THERE ARE TWO STONE HOUSES ON ONE LARGE LOT.
DURING MY 33 YEARS OWNING AND LIVING NEXT DOOR TO OWNERS OF 803, THE OWNERS HAVE REPEATEDLY CHIPPED AWAY OF THIS HISTORIC INTEGRITY.
WHEN THE HOUSE NEEDED STABILIZATION AND RESTORATION, THEY SLEPT ON STUCCO WITHOUT REPAIRING WALLS.
NOW, IT'S CONSIDERED NOT SIGNIFICANT.
I GUESS IN THE FUTURE, WE THINK ABOUT WHAT IF IT BECOMES A VACATION RENTAL WITH THE DECK RUNNING RIGHT UP TO THE FENCE AND THE PORCH ON THE SECOND FLOOR LOOKING RIGHT INTO MY HOUSE AND YARD.
>> MS. RYAN, WE'RE RUNNING UP ON YOUR TIME.
ONE MINUTE TIME LIMIT, CAN YOU WRAP IT UP, PLEASE.
>> YES, I CAN. I RECOMMEND THE DELAY IN ISSUING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS UNTIL A CLOSER LOOK IS TAKEN UP AT DESIGN AND REVIEW OF THE PROPERTY IN RELATION TO MY HOME.
LOOK AT THE MASSING IN BULK OF THE HOME, PROXIMITY OF FORTUNE DECK AND LOSS OF PRIVACY.
PLEASE COME BY ANYTIME TO LOOK AT THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES. THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU, MS. RYAN. DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENTS? ANYONE ELSE? WHO'S ON THE LINE? [NOISE].
>> MR. RYAN, PLEASE GO AHEAD. YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES, PLEASE.
>> SEVERAL YEARS AGO, MY WIFE AND I DECIDED NOT TO DEMOLISH OR BUILD A LARGER HOUSE BUT RATHER TO COMPLETELY REMODEL THE INSIDE OF OUR 1950S ROCK HOME.
KNOWING THE HISTORIC OVERLAY IN FACT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THAT DECISION, THE HPC BLESSED THE DESIGN AND WE CONTINUE.
[00:30:01]
I WILL SKIP THE REDUNDANT PART.THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE AT 803 WEST ASPEN WAS A FINE STRUCTURE BUT IN THE COMPLETELY WRONG NEIGHBORHOOD; CONTINENTAL, LINWOOD HEIGHTS, FOREST ISLANDS.
MANY OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.
THE 800 BLOCK OF THE ASPEN STREET, BUT THIS IS PROS, HAS SMALLER HOMES WITH AN AVERAGE SIZE OF 1,200 SQUARE FEET.
THE DRAWING SHOW THIS HOUSE TO BE 1,000 SQUARE FEET LARGER THAN ANY OF THE OTHER EXISTING HOMES.
IT'S JUST WRONG FOR THE ORIGINAL HISTORIC FIELD.
THIS BLOCK THAT WE HAVE ALL PRESERVED, IT WILL LITERALLY OVERSHADOW THE HISTORICAL HOME WE LIVE IN, A SECOND FLOORBOARD IN PARTICULAR.
[LAUGHTER] WHERE'S THE PARKING? I'M SURE YOU KNOW, KARL. THAT'S IT. I'M DONE.
>> THANK YOU, MR. RYAN. I'M NOT SEEING ANY OTHER COMMENTS.
MARK, DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO ADD?
>> YES, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AN OVERLAY DESIGN CRITERIA, WHICH ARE THE STANDARDS AND THE GUIDELINES, AND SOME ASPECTS WERE MENTIONED.
THOSE ARE UNDERLYING ZONING ASPECTS THAT WILL ALSO HAVE TO BE COMPLIED WITH, SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CONCENTRATING SOLELY ON DESIGN REVIEW THAT IS IN THE OVERLAY DOCUMENT.
>> THANK YOU, MARK. I APPRECIATE THAT, AND I'D ECHO THAT COMMENT.
WE DON'T GOVERN PARKING, NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES, NUMBER OF GARAGE SPACES.
THAT IS A ZONING ISSUE OTHER THAN THE REQUIREMENT THAT PARKING NOT BE ACCESSED FROM THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY, SO THOSE WILL BE ISSUES THAT WILL BE COVERED IN THE SITE PLAN APPROVAL OF THE PROPERTY, AND THEY WILL HAVE TO MEET WHATEVER THOSE REQUIREMENTS ARE.
MARK, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS ABOUT COMMENTS ABOUT MASSING AND SIZE.
CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH, SORRY, I PUT YOU ON THE SPOT HERE, ON THE CRITERIA AND REQUIREMENTS FOR SIZE THAT ARE IN THE TOWN SITE, HISTORIC OVERLAY, AND THEN MAYBE IF YOU KNOW THE ANSWER WHERE THIS PROPERTY IS AT COMPARED TO THAT GUIDELINE? YOU COULD TELL US THAT TOO, OTHERWISE, KARL COULD JUMP IN WITH THAT INFORMATION.
>> MR. CHAIRMAN, I BELIEVE I HAVE THAT ANSWER.
WHERE IT IS MENTIONED IN THE DESIGN REVIEW DOCUMENT IS FOR THE SECONDARY STRUCTURE AND NOT THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE.
THE ARCHITECTURAL [NOISE] TERMS ARE MASSING, HEIGHT, AND PROPORTIONS.
THOSE ARE ARCHITECTURAL TERMS FOR THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE.
[NOISE] HEIGHT IS SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED.
THERE'S THE ABILITY TO GO HIGHER THAN 25 FEET, WHICH IS BASED UPON THE FLOOR CONSTRUCTION VERSUS A SLAB CONSTRUCTION, SO THAT'S ADDING TWO MORE FEET TO THE RAISED WOOD FLOOR.
ROOF PITCH IS GIVEN ON THE 612; ARCHITECTURAL MATERIALS, DETAILS, COLORS.
THAT'S PICKING UP A PARTICULAR ARCHITECTURAL STYLE.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT PARKWAYS ALSO BEING RETAINED.
DEMOLITION WAS THE PRODUCTION OF A CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDY.
NOTICES WERE POSTED, THE HPC DOES HAVE THE ABILITY TO LOOK AT EXCEPTIONS AND THEN ITEM NUMBER 6 IN THE OVERLAY IS GUIDELINES.
WE TALKED ABOUT CREATIVE DESIGNS, PORCHES, STOOPS TO FACE THE STREET, ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS THAT RELATE TO A PARTICULAR STYLE, WHERE THE HOUSE FACES, TREES, AND THEN THE ONE GUIDELINE THAT I DID NOTE THAT I DO BELIEVE HAS TO BE SOLVED IN SOME WAY IS PRIVACY.
INTENT IS REALLY NOT A GUIDELINE OR A STANDARD,
[00:35:03]
SO IT GIVES YOU AN [NOISE] IDEA OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT IT'S NOT TOTALLY CLEAR.WINDOW ORIENTATION, BLOCKING VIEWS, NOTES, TRY NOT TO BLOCK VIEWS BUT THERE ARE NO REQUIREMENTS IN CITY ORDINANCE.
WINDOWS ON THE STREET SIDE AGAIN, THAT'S AN ARCHITECTURAL TYPE OF THING.
THAT'S A QUICK OVERVIEW OF THE STANDARDS IN THE GUIDELINES AND WHERE I THINK ONE ISSUE IS PRESERVE THE NEIGHBORS' WORK TOWARDS PROVIDING PRIVACY IN PLACING WINDOWS.
IT ALSO NOTES THE USE OF TRANSLUCENT GLASS THAT RESPECTS PRIVACY.
ANY QUESTIONS BEYOND THAT WITH A QUICK OVERVIEW?
>> LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONER DALE AND COMMISSION HORN.
COMMISSIONER HORN, IF YOU'D LIKE TO GO FIRST.
>> YEAH, I WAS JUST CURIOUS YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW LOOKING AT PARKING, SOME OF THOSE THINGS ARE NOT WITHIN OUR PURVIEW BECAUSE THAT GOES TO ZONING AND I APOLOGIZE, THERE'S A HELICOPTER FLYING OVER MY HOUSE RIGHT NOW.
BUT I JUST WONDERED WHAT THE PROCESS WAS? THAT GOES TO ZONING AND THEY HAVE COMMENTS OR THINGS NEED TO BE CHANGED.
IS THERE A POINT WHERE THAT MIGHT COME BACK TO US TO LOOK AT HOW SUBSTANTIAL THAT THE CHANGES NEED TO BE FOR THAT TO HAPPEN?
>> DID YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER THAT FOR SURE?
>> YEAH, PLEASE. GO AHEAD, MARK.
>> YEAH, IT WOULD NOT COME BACK TO US UNLESS IT CHANGED THE ARCHITECTURAL FORM THAT'S PRESENTED RIGHT NOW.
>> COMMISSIONER DALE, YOU WANT TO ASK A QUESTION? THAT WAS A GREAT QUESTION, AMY.
I DON'T THINK WE'VE EVER HAD WHEN WE COME BACK A SECOND TIME AFTER ZONING, WE DO NORMALLY GO BEFORE ZONING.
>> THANKS FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.
MARK, MY COMMENT REQUEST IS MORE JUST A SUMMARY OF WHAT YOU SAID THAT WAS BUILDING UP ACCOMMODATE PREVIOUSLY HAD.
IN THE AGENDA IT SAYS THAT OUR ACTIONS WOULD BE TO PROVIDE THE RECOMMENDED MOTION BASED ON THE STAFF REPORT AND THAT INCLUDES ALL OF THE FROSTED GLASS AND COLOR AND ALL THAT STUFF THAT YOU WERE JUST EXPLAINING TO US?
>> YES. I MADE A GENERAL SOME FORM OF SUGGESTION.
THE RECOMMENDED MOTION IS MORE GENERAL.
I COULD THINK OF MAYBE 12 DIFFERENT WAYS TO IMPROVE PRIVACY.
THAT CAN BE AN ARCHITECTURAL DECISION SO THE ARCHITECTS CAN PROVIDE HOW YOU DO THE SCREENING ON THE PORCH.
LET'S SAY WHAT GLASS YOU COULD UTILIZE OR NOT PUT SOME WINDOWS IN SOME LOCATIONS.
THAT WOULD BE AN ARCHITECTURAL DECISION.
[OVERLAPPING] TERMINATION OF IF THE PLANTS ARE COMPLETE ENOUGH, OR YOU CAN REQUEST, SPECIFICS THAT IS WITHIN YOUR AUTHORITY TO MAKE THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS.
>> WOULD WE NEED TO GET THAT SPECIFIC IN OUR MOTION OR COULD WE SAY INCLUDING THE SUGGESTIONS LAID OUT IN THE STAFF REPORT?
>> YOU HAVE DONE THAT IN THE PAST WHERE YOU HAVE ME FOLLOW THROUGH ON THINGS.
THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.
I GOT SOMETHING TO ADD, BUT KARL IF YOU'D LIKE TO GO AHEAD.
>> HI. SORRY. WAS THAT FOR ME?
>> KARL GO AHEAD. YOU HAD YOUR HAND RAISED.
>> YEAH, THANKS. I THINK HAVING A DISCUSSION ABOUT PRIVACY IS GOOD.
I THINK THAT YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT AN URBAN LOT AND WHAT YOUR OPPORTUNITIES FOR PRIVACY ARE AND WHAT EXISTS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE TRIED TO DO WAS MAKE SURE THAT WHERE THE BACKYARD IS ON THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY WE DON'T HAVE A SECOND FLOOR.
WE'RE NOT LOOKING DOWN INTO THE YARD.
YES WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SIDE OF THEIR HOUSE.
IF SOMEBODY REALLY WANTED TO GET OVER THE EDGE AND LOOK DOWN, THEY COULD.
BUT I THINK THAT WE'VE OFFERED UP ALREADY, MOVING THE HOUSE BACK.
THIS IS THE STEP BACK LINE OVER HERE, AND THE WINDOWS ARE BACK 2.5 TIMES THE REQUIRED SETBACKS.
AT MY SUGGESTION, WE CHANGED UP THE RAILINGS THERE'S SOMETHING THAT PROVIDES A LITTLE BIT MORE PRIVACY.
I THINK THAT THE THINGS THAT WE WANT TO THINK ABOUT IT,
[00:40:02]
IT'S NOT THAT PRIVACY WAS IGNORED, BUT PRIVACY CAN'T MEAN A WINDOWLESS WALL FACING THE NEIGHBOR, WHICH I ACTUALLY DON'T THINK I WOULD WANT.IF I WAS A NEIGHBOR, I WOULDN'T WANT TO LOOK AT THIS WALL.
THE QUESTION IS, IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE WHO COME SNIFFING AROUND IN MY BACKYARD WHEN I'M HAVING A BARBECUE? WE'VE DONE A LOT TO WORK WITH THAT.
I WOULD ALSO POINT OUT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE EXISTING CIRCUMSTANCES.
THIS THE NEIGHBOR'S UNIT, WHICH HAS A WINDOW SITTING RIGHT HERE WHICH LOOKS DOWN.
I'M SORRY, YOU GUYS CAN'T SEE THIS TIME.
>> LET ME SHARE. THIS THE NEIGHBORS BUILDING RIGHT HERE WITH A WINDOW RIGHT HERE, LOOKING DIRECTLY DOWN INTO THE HADDEN'S BACKYARD.
IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT OF A FAIRNESS THING.
WHEN I WAS TALKING TO YOU EARLIER, I WAS TALKING ABOUT RIGHT HERE.
THIS IS THE REQUIRED SETBACK RIGHT HERE.
WE'VE GOT THE MASTER BEDROOM WINDOWS 2.5 TIMES THAT DISTANCE AWAY FROM THAT SET BACK LINE.
YES, THE DECK COMES OUT, BUT AT MARK SUGGESTED WE REMOVE THE GLASS AND PUT IT IN A SLAT RAIL, WHICH PUTS IT IN A FAIRLY HIGH DEGREE OF PRIVACY.
BUT WE STILL NOT TALKING ABOUT LOOKING DOWN INTO THE NEIGHBOR'S BACKYARD DIRECTLY, WE'RE LOOKING INTO THE SIDE YARD.
WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT URBAN LOTS, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME ABILITY FOR WINDOWS TO BE UP HIGH.
I WOULD THINK THAT IF I WAS THE NEIGHBOR, THE LAST THING I WANT IS A WINDOWLESS WALL FACING MY HOUSE.
I THINK THEY ADD THE DISTANCE, I THINK THE PRIVACY SCREENING WE'VE OFFERED HELPS.
I THINK WE'VE ORGANIZED THE BUILDING IN SUCH A WAY THAT WHEN YOU'RE IN THE BACKYARD, YOU DON'T HAVE A SECOND FLOOR SCREAMING BEHIND YOU.
AGAIN JUST IN FAIRNESS, THEY HAVE TO PUT UP WITH WHAT THE NEIGHBORS HAVE, WHICH IS A WINDOW RIGHT HERE LOOKING INTO THEIR BACKYARD.
I THINK WE'VE ADDRESSED PRIVACY, I THINK FAIRLY.
IS IT WHAT THE NEIGHBORS WANT? PROBABLY NOT.
BUT I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE FAIR TO YOUR NEIGHBORS.
THE OTHER THING THAT I WANTED TO JUST COMMENT ABOUT THE SIZE, THE SIZE IN TOWNS SITE IS REGULATED BY TWO THINGS.
THE FIRST THING IS THE ZONING CODE.
THE ZONING CODE REQUIRES THAT YOU HAVE CERTAIN AMOUNT OF LOT COVERAGE YOU DON'T EXCEED THAT.
ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT, THE CALCITE DESIGN GUIDELINES REQUIRE THIS THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT PRIVATE OPEN YARD.
WHILE THERE OTHERWISE, ZONING CAPABILITY WOULD BE TO GO ALL THE WAY OUT TO THE SETBACK LINE, THIS THOUSAND FEET TRIM SIZE, THAT'S WHAT ITS PURPOSE IS.
THEN THE SECOND THING THAT TRIM SIZE IS THE HEIGHT LIMIT.
WHEN YOU TURN ON THE HEIGHT LIMIT, YOU CAN SEE THAT THAT ACTUALLY MAKES STUDY.
AS THE OLDER BUILDINGS WENT HIGHER, THE NEWER BUILDINGS DON'T HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY.
YOU CAN SEE THAT IN THIS ONE WHERE AGAIN, YOU SEE THIS IS THE HEIGHT LIMIT RIGHT HERE.
SORRY, IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT AS IT ATTRACTS.
THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING IS REGULATED FIRST BY THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND THEN IT'S TRIMMED FURTHER BY THE COUNCIL DESIGN GUIDELINES IN THE HEIGHT LIMIT BY THE OPEN SPACE.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE WENT TO A FAIR AMOUNT OF DIFFICULT IN DESIGN CONSIDERATION TO NOT PUT SECOND FLOOR RIGHT AT THE NEIGHBOR'S BACKYARD.
>> THANK YOU KARL. MS. RYAN, I SEE YOU HAVE YOUR HAND RAISED, BUT THE PUBLIC COMMENT, PERIOD IS OVER SO WE CAN'T TAKE ANY MORE COMMENTS, I'M AFRAID.
COMMISSIONER KELLY, WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO AHEAD?
>> CAN YOU TURN OFF YOUR CAMERAS SO WE DON'T LOSE BANDWIDTH, PLEASE?
>> WHO WANT TO SEE MY UGLY MUG ANYWAYS?
>> [LAUGHTER] SORRY, I WAS MUTED THAT ENTIRE TIME.
I WAS CURIOUS IF THE SECOND STORY PORCH, IF THAT WAS EVER CONSIDERED TO BE IN THE FRONT OF THE HOME INSTEAD?
>> WE GET YOU THAT CONSIDERATION.
WHAT WAS THE ISSUE FOR US WAS THAT IT PUTS THE PORCH BASICALLY OUT ON THE STREET.
BASICALLY, YOU TRADE GIVING YOUR NEIGHBOR PRIVACY FOR HAVING NONE OF YOUR OWN.
THAT BEING OFF THE MASTER BEDROOM, THAT WAS NOT DESIRABLE.
>> I JUST WAS CURIOUS IF THAT WHAT CAME INTO QUESTION.
I KNOW THAT TWO NEIGHBORS UP HAVING THEIR PORCH IN THE FRONT END.
[00:45:02]
I WALKED THE STREET EVERY SINGLE DAY.I DON'T WANT THIS TO SOUND MORE LIKE A PUBLIC COMMENT, BUT PART OF LIVING DOWNTOWN AS YOU DO LACK PRIVACY.
[LAUGHTER] BUT THAT'S THE ENJOYMENT IS SITTING OUT ON THE FRONT PORCH SEEING WHO WALKS BY, SAYING HELLO TO YOUR NEIGHBORS.
I DON'T REALLY SEE HOW SECOND STORY PORCH LOOKING WHERE IT LOOKS NOW WOULDN'T BE AS ENJOYABLE AS THE FRONT.
OTHER THAN THAT, I THINK IT'S A BEAUTIFUL STRUCTURE, BUT I DO AGREE THAT IT'S GOING TO STICK OUT.
YOU ARE IN A TOUGH POSITION BEING ON BOTH STREETS.
BUT IT'S JUST GOING TO LOOK QUITE LARGE. THAT'S ALL.
>> THANK YOU, KELLY. WHEN WE GET ITEMS LIKE THIS, IT ALWAYS FRUSTRATES ME BECAUSE THE COMMENTS THAT WE HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC ARE BASICALLY NOT REALLY REFLECTED IN THE TAIL SIDE GUIDELINES.
THE ONLY ENFORCEABLE ITEM IN TERMS OF MASSING IN A DOCUMENT THAT CLAIMS TO BE ABOUT MASSING IN SIZE AND MAINTAINING A NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER, IS THAT 21ST-FOOT HEIGHT LIMIT.
AS KARL MENTIONED, THE BACKYARD, A PIECE WHICH ISN'T AS SIGNIFICANT.
THIS PROPERTY MEETS ALL THOSE GUIDELINES.
WE CAN'T SAY IT'S TOO BIG, BECAUSE PER THE GUIDELINES IT IS NOT TOO BIG.
THAT WOULD SIMPLY BE COUNTERED TO THE WAY THEY WERE WRITTEN.
IF WE WANT RULES THAT ARE DIFFERENT, THEN WE NEED TO MAKE THE RULES DIFFERENT.
I THINK THAT'S UP TO MEMBERS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
IF YOU WANT SMALLER HOUSES, PLEASE PETITION COUNSEL TO UPDATE THE HISTORIC GUIDELINES FOR THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, MAKING THE HOUSE IS SMALLER, BUT AS THEY SIT RIGHT NOW, THIS HOUSE IS TAKEN OUT.
IT IS WITHIN THOSE REQUIREMENTS.
THE SECOND PART THAT GETS ME WHEN SOMEONE WHO SPENDS TIME TRYING TO MEET THESE WRITTEN REQUIREMENTS, IS COMMON.
REQUIREMENTS SUCH AS ORIENT WINDOWS TO PROTECT NEIGHBORHOODS PRIVACY.
CLOSE QUOTE, IS THE ONLY ACTIONABLE ITEM, AGAIN, WITHIN THE DESIGN CRITERIA FOR THE TOWN SITE OVERLAY, HOW WE'RE SUPPOSED TO TAKE ACTION UPON THAT, THAT'S NOT JUST COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE, WE CAN'T.
SO IT PUTS US IN A REALLY TOUGH SPOT.
PITTING NEIGHBORS AGAINST NEIGHBORS.
MY INITIAL THOUGHT ON THE PRIVACY ITEM, IT DOES STRIKE ME A LITTLE BIT THAT HAVING THEIR SECOND-STORY PORCH IN THE BACKYARD DOES REALLY IMPACT AND LOOKED DOWN UPON THEIR NEIGHBOR IN A WAY THAT IS POTENTIALLY NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THIS.
AGAIN, LET'S ADD THERE'S NOTHING IN THE GUIDELINES AND IT SAYS DON'T BUILD SECOND-STORY PORCHES IN THE BACK WHERE THEY LOOKED DOWN ON YOUR NEIGHBOR'S YARD. IT'S NOT THERE.
I THINK KARL HAS DONE WHAT HE CAN LIKE HE SAID, BALANCING THE OWNER OF THIS PROPERTY RIGHT TO HAVE THE PROPERTY THEY WANT AND ENJOY IT IN THE WAY THAT THEY WANT WITH THE NEIGHBORS' RIGHT TO DO EXACTLY THE SAME.
KARL THE OWNERS, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU COULD POTENTIALLY OFFER UP RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK IN A CONCESSION TO PRIVACY THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO NOT HAVE THE CONDITION THAT YOU HAVE TO CONTINUE TO WORK THAT OUT WITH THE HPO WITH MARK? I'M RETICENT TO JUST PUT THAT CONDITION ON THERE AND THEN HAVE USED SUBJECTS TO MUCH AS I LIKE MARK SUBJECT TO JUST WHATEVER HE SAYS OUTSIDE OF A PUBLIC FORUM, OUTSIDE OF THE GUIDELINES.
IT'S A LITTLE BIT TO ARBITRARY FOR MY LIKING.
DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT?
>> THIS IS KARL. I'D OFFER BASICALLY THREE.
WE CAN ELIMINATE THE SMALL WINDOW ON THE ELEVATION THAT IS IN ONE OF THE BEDROOMS. PERSONALLY, I WOULDN'T WANT TO LIVE NEXT TO A BIG BLANK WALL,
[00:50:02]
BUT IF A BIG BLANK WALL IS BETTER, WE'RE GLAD TO DO THAT.ON THE STAIRWELL WINDOW, WE'VE ALREADY SAID WE WOULD PUT SOME DECORATIVE GLASS IN IT.
MARK, YOU HAD SOME SUGGESTIONS OF A STAINED GLASS OR LEADED GLASS WINDOW AND WE TALKED ABOUT THAT AND WE'RE FINE WITH THAT WOULD DEFINITELY CAN DO THAT.
I WOULD ARGUE IN BOTH THOSE CASES, YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE NEIGHBOR'S ROOF AND SO IT'S MORE OF A CONCESSION FOR CONCEPT THAN IT IS FOR REALITY.
ON THE MASTER BEDROOM DECK, WE'VE ALREADY MADE A CONCESSION COMPARED TO WHAT WAS SUBMITTED TO WHAT YOU LOOKED AT TONIGHT.
WE SWITCHED FROM A MORE OPEN RAILING TO A SLAT RAILING DESIGN.
WE CAN CERTAINLY LOOK AT SOMETHING THAT IS MORE ENCLOSED BUT I THINK I CAME TO THE TABLE OF TONIGHT WITH A CONCESSION ON THE TABLE AS OUR OFFERING.
>> THANK YOU KARL. MARK, IN YOUR OPINION, IF WE MADE THE REQUEST THAT WE RAISED THE FENCE IN THAT LOCATION, I THINK MS. RYAN MADE A GOOD POINT THAT BECAUSE THE BACK PATIO THERE IS TWO FOOT HIGH OF A STANDARD SIX-FOOT FENCE IS ONLY A FOUR-FOOT FENCE, THEREFORE STOPS BEING A PRIVACY FENCE.
SIX-FOOT IS THE ZONING CODE LIMIT, BUT I BELIEVE THERE IS AN ALLOWANCE FOR THE DIRECTOR TO CHANGE THAT.
IF WE MADE THAT RECOMMENDATION TO RAISE THAT AN ADDITIONAL TWO FOOT IN THAT LOCATION, WHAT DO YOU THINK? THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD GET THROUGH.
>> MR. CHAIRMAN, I THINK THERE WAS A INDICATION THAT THE PATIO WENT BEYOND THE SET BACK WHICH IT DOESN'T SO THE PATIO WAS AT FLOOR LEVEL.
I BELIEVE THAT THE PATIO IS ALREADY SET BACK SO THAT THE SIX-FOOT FENCE WOULD BE ADEQUATE THERE BECAUSE YOU'D HAVE TO STEP OFF OF THE PATIO.
FROM THE DRAWINGS PRESENTED, THE PATIO DOES NOT GO TO THE FENCE.
I BELIEVE I'M CORRECT ON HOW THAT WAS PRESENTED.
>> [INAUDIBLE] SHOWS THE PATIO IN THAT LOCATION BEING RAISED AT LEAST THREE STEPS.
>> CORRECT. BUT IT DOESN'T GO ALL THE WAY TO THE FENCE.
I DO KNOW THAT PLANNING WOULD PROBABLY COMMENT ON THE INCREASED HEIGHT.
>> DOES THE PATIO GO ALL THE WAY THE FENCE?
>> WE'RE DOING SOME MENTAL GYMNASTICS HERE.
BOTH ANSWERS ARE ACTUALLY CORRECT. YEAH, SORRY.
THE WAY THAT I'M SHOWING IT NOW, THE PATIO ITSELF IS WITHIN THE SETBACK, BUT WHAT I HAVE IS, I'VE RAISED THE GROUND OUTSIDE OF THE PATIO, AND I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S GOING TO BE TWO FEET OR NOT.
WE HAVEN'T SURVEYED IT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT NOW.
I ACTUALLY THINK THERE'LL BE LESS.
IT WOULD BE TWO FOOT IF THIS PROPERTY IS DEAD LEVEL FLAT AND WE KNOW THAT IT'S NOT.
IT SLOPES FROM LOW AND THE EAST TOO HIGH IN THE WEST.
TECHNICALLY SPEAKING, IF YOU WALKED OFF THE PATIO AND INTO THE LANDSCAPING AREA, YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE OVER A SIX FOOT FENCE AS WAS DESCRIBED BY OTHER PEOPLE.
WE WOULD BE OPEN TO A TALLER FENCE, WE'LL ALSO BE OPEN TO PULLING BACK THAT RETAINING WALLS OR GARDEN WALLS AND THE RETAINING WALL SO LOW.
WE CAN PULL IT BACK A LITTLE BIT SO THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY STAND IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO THE FENCE AND LOOK OVER.
I MEAN, I DON'T THINK PEOPLE DO THAT IN LIFE, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY PULL IT BACK IF THAT'S DESIRED.
>> I WAS JUST WONDERING IF MAYBE HE COULD SHARE THE PLAN FOR THAT.
I THINK I'M SEEING ON WHAT HE SUBMITTED, BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M VISUALIZING IT CORRECTLY.
>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. I TAKE A LITTLE WALK HERE, SO TWO SECONDS TO GET BACK TO THE COMPUTER.
>> I LIVE IN A LITTLE ISLAND, IS REALLY CLOSE TO CANADA, SO I HAVE TO BE ON CELL PHONE.
>> I'M GOING TO FLIP TO THE SITE PLAN VIEW.
WHAT I HAVE SHOWN IS THE PATIO BACK HERE.
HERE'S THE SETBACK LINE, BUT I WAS GOING TO RAISE THE YARD IN THIS AREA HERE.
I COULD CERTAINLY CUT THAT BACK AND STEP BACK DOWN TO GRID IN THIS AREA HERE.
[00:55:03]
COME ON. COMPUTER IS BEEN FIGHTING ME A LITTLE BIT HERE.WE CAN CUT THIS BACK SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF FLATLAND RIGHT NEXT TO THE FENCE, IF THAT WAS MORE DESIRABLE TO PEOPLE.
>> THANKS FOR EXPLAINING THAT.
>> WELL, LIKE I SAID, BOTH PEOPLE ARE RIGHT.
>> THANK YOU, KARL. I WANT TO MAKE A MOTION.
DOES ANY OF THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS BEFORE WE DO THAT? I'M NOT SEEING ANY. I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, WHEREAS THE CONDITIONS [NOISE] ARE AS FOLLOWS; THE SMALLER WINDOW ON THE WEST ELEVATION WILL BE EITHER REMOVED OR REPLACED WITH OPAQUE GLASS OR SOMETHING SIMILAR.
THE WINDOW IN THE STAIRWELL WILL ALSO BE MADE OPAQUE OR SOME OTHER SIMILAR TREATMENT.
THE SLATS ON THE SECOND STORY DECK WILL BE DESIGNED AS SHOWN IN THIS PRESENTATION, AND WE WILL REQUEST TO PLANNING AND ZONING THAT THE APPLICANT BE ALLOWED TO INCREASE THE FENCE HEIGHT TO EIGHT FEET AT THE LOCATION OF THE PATIO.
THAT'S IT. MARK, DID YOU GET ALL THAT?
>> IS IT APPROPRIATE FOR ME TO COMMENT? THIS IS GREG HADDEN, THE OWNER.
JUST ON THE PRIVACY ISSUE, [OVERLAPPING] I CAN LIVE WITH EVERYTHING THAT YOU'VE SAID EXCEPT I'M NOT SURE THAT CHANGING THE BEDROOM WINDOW ADDS A LOT OF VALUE BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT THE HOUSE ADJACENT TO ME REALLY HAS ANY WINDOWS THAT COULD REALLY PURE INTO, SO I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP THAT AS A NORMAL WINDOW JUST FOR LIGHT.
I'M SORRY, I DID NOT GIVE YOU THE ANSWER YOU WANT, MR. HADDEN.
IT IS A BALANCE AND I THINK WE HAVE TO MAKE SOME COMPROMISES TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE CODE AND PUTTING OBSCURE GLASS IN THAT WOULD MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS WITHOUT REALLY IMPACTING UNLIKELY, YOU'RE GETTING.
I'VE GOT A HAND UP FROM COMMISSIONER HORN HERE, BUT I NEED A SECOND ON MY MOTION, I THINK BEFORE WE CAN TAKE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION.
SOMEONE ELSE WANTS TO SECOND THAT IF THEY AGREE, OF COURSE?
>> THIS IS COMMISSIONER HORN. I WAS JUST GOING TO SECOND YOUR MOTION AS YOU STATED IT.
>> THANK YOU. WE HAVE A MOTION IN A SECOND.
WE DON'T NORMALLY DISCUSS AT THIS POINT, BUT WE CAN.
IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION FROM ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS? I'M NOT SEEING ANY, SO WE'LL GO AHEAD AND MAKE A VOTE.
>> ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? THE MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
THANK YOU EVERYONE WHO WAS INVOLVED IN THIS WITH YOUR CONTRIBUTION AND DISCUSSIONS, AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL HAVE SOMETHING THAT EVERYONE CAN LIVE WITH AND WE CAN HAVE THE HADDEN JOIN US IN OUR COMMUNITY.
WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM,
[B. Nativity of Blessed Virgin Mary Chapel PROPERTY INFORMATION: Address: 16 W Cherry Assessor's Parcel Number: 101-13-008A Property Owner: Bishop of the Roman Catholic Church of the Diocese of Phoenix Applicant: Roberta Wallace City Staff: Mark Reavis, HPO REQUESTED ACTION: A Facade Grant request of $10,000 match for a $26,816 historic preservation project consisting of stained glass restoration and critical tower inspection of exterior. RECOMMENDED ACTION: Approve a $10,000 grant for stained glass restoration and protection of the tower.]
[01:00:04]
WHICH I'M GOING TO PULL UP.WE'RE LOOKING AT ITEM B, WHICH IS THE NATIVITY OF THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY CHAPEL AT 16 WEST CHERRY.
THIS IS A FACADE GRANT REQUEST OF $10,000.
MARK, IF YOU'D LIKE TO GO AHEAD, PLEASE.
>> YES, MR. CHAIRMAN. I REALLY DON'T HAVE A LOT TO SAY CONSIDERING HOW ICONIC AND IMPORTANT AS CHURCHES TO THE NORTH END HISTORIC DISTRICT AND THE COMMUNITY AS WELL.
I WOULD JUST PASS IT ONTO THE APPLICANT.
THEY HAVE SOME INTERESTING ASPECTS TO INFORM YOU OF WHERE THEY ARE WITH THE RESTORATION OF THIS CHAPEL.
I WOULD TURN IT OVER TO THE APPLICANT.
I'M GOING TO TURN ON MY CAMERA HERE FOR A MOMENT AND SHOW YOU.
WE JUST HAD A MITIGATION LAST WEEKEND AND I WAS GOING TO SHOW YOU ONE OF THE GUYS THAT CAME DOWN.
THIS IS ONE OF THE GARGOYLES [LAUGHTER] WE HAVE HAD REMOVED.
WE TOOK ABOUT £350 DOWN OF NOT LOOSE DEBRIS, BUT DEBRIS THAT WAS COMING OFF OF THE TOWER.
I DON T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU'RE INFORMED YET OF THE SITUATION ON THE TOWER WITH THE DECORATIVE STONE, BUT INVESTIGATIVE ENGINEERING HAS TOLD US THAT WE HAVE A CONDITION CALLED ALKALI-SILICA REACTION, WHICH IS ALKALINE IN THE CONCRETE, IT HAS MIXED WITH VOLCANIC MATERIAL THAT WAS A CONTAMINANT IN THE ORIGINAL MIX.
WHEN THAT MEETS WATER, IT FORMS AN EXPANSIVE GEL, WHICH IS BREAKING APART THE CONCRETE MATRIX OF THE DECORATIVE STONE.
WHAT THEY HAVE TOLD US IS THAT 100 PERCENT OF THE PINK DECORATIVE STONE ON THE TOWER WILL HAVE TO COME DOWN.
WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, WELL THE NEXT PHASE, WHAT WE HAD ACCOMPLISHED LAST AUGUST WAS THE AS-BUILT DOCUMENTATION AND TESTING.
I'LL JUST TURN OFF MY CAMERA HERE FOR A MINUTE.
WITH THAT WE CONFIRMED THAT WE DON'T HAVE ALKALI-SILICA REACTION ACTIVE IN THE SUBSTRUCTURE.
WE HAVE THE CONTAMINANTS THERE, BUT IT IS NOT ACTIVE.
OUR NEXT PHASE IS TO ACTUALLY DO THE CONSTRUCTION PLANS.
WE HAVE ABOUT $50,000-$60,000 TOWARD THAT ALREADY.
I'LL TELL YOU, THE $10,000 TO HELP US DO THIS WHEN MITIGATION AND THE STAINED GLASS RESTORATION WOULD BE HUGELY HELPFUL. ANY QUESTIONS?
>> COMMISSIONERS, DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR EITHER MS. WALLACE OR STAFF? I'M NOT SEEING ANY QUESTIONS, MS. WALLACE, BUT I REALLY HAVE TO THANK YOU FOR THE HARD WORK THAT YOU DO FOR THIS PROJECT, ESPECIALLY IT'S ONE OF OUR MOST IMPORTANT LANDMARKS.
IF I COULD VOTE TO GIVE YOU $100,000 INSTEAD OF $10,000 OR A MILLION DOLLARS, I WOULD DO THAT.
UNFORTUNATELY, TENDERS HAVE LIMIT.
THAT'S ALL WE CAN DO. BUT I'LL HAPPILY VOTE FOR THIS GRANT AND WISH YOU ALL THE BEST OF LUCK.
THANKS FOR THE HARD WORK. COMMISSIONER HORN DO YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD?
>> YEAH. SORRY. I JUST HAVE ANOTHER PROCESS QUESTION.
[INAUDIBLE] PARTIALLY ANSWERED IT WAS, WHAT IS THE LIMIT OF OUR GRANTS AND HOW MANY DO WE TYPICALLY FUND IN A YEAR SINCE I'M STILL RELATIVELY NEW TO THE COMMISSION, AND WHAT'S THE TYPICAL AMOUNT THAT IS FUNDED?
>> I COULD ANSWER THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN.
OUR LIMIT IS $10,000 AS A 50/50 MATCH.
[01:05:03]
SO PROJECTS SUCH AS THIS ONE EXCEED BEING AT $20,000 PROJECT.SO IT'S CURRENTLY OVERMATCHED.
I'VE BEEN PRETTY CRITICAL ON FOLLOWING US SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS.
WE DID HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL MONEY THAT WE WEREN'T ABLE TO GRANT THIS YEAR.
I DID A LOT OF PROMOTION TO TRY TO DO THAT.
THE ALLOCATION CAN END UP BEING $10,000 GRANTS OR SUCH WORK, AND IT CAN BE USED FOR HIGH-QUALITY RESTORATION OF FEATURES, AND WE HAVE ALSO USED IT TO REVERSE INAPPROPRIATE ADDITIONS TO PROPERTIES.
THE FUNDING COMES FROM THE BBB TAX, WHICH IS THE BED, BOARD AND BEVERAGE TAX.
IT IS RUN THROUGH OUR ARTS AND SCIENCE PROGRAM ECONOMIC VITALITY.
SO IT'S LOCALLY GENERATED TAX THAT IS TO ENHANCE OUR DOWNTOWN; OUR HISTORIC DISTRICTS.
>> MARK, WHAT'S THE BUDGET ALLOCATION FOR THAT ANNUALLY?
>> I THINK WE NORMALLY DO SOMEWHERE BETWEEN FIVE AND 10, RIGHT?
>> IF NO ONE ELSE HAS ANY COMMENTS, CAN WE GET A MOTION ON THIS ITEM?
>> YES. THIS IS COMMISSIONER DEA.
I WOULD MOTION TO APPROVE A $10,000 GRANT FOR STAINED-GLASS RESTORATION AND PROTECTION OF THE TOWER.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER DEA AND A SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER KELLY.
>> ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? THE MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY.
AGAIN, THANK YOU, MS. WALLACE.
>> IF WE CAN GIVE YOU MORE MONEY AND SUPPORT IN THE FUTURE, WE'LL TRY TO DO THAT.
>> YEAH, AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO FOLLOW UP.
MARK HAD INVITED ME TO GIVE A PRESENTATION TO YOUR GROUP THERE AT SOME TIME AND I'M HAPPY TO DO SO NOW THAT I HAVE MY MOST RECENT TEST RESULTS THAT WE WERE WAITING ON AND WE WOULD BE GOOD FOR THAT.
WHENEVER IS GOOD WITH YOU, MARK.
>> MR. CHAIRMAN, IT'D BE GREAT TO HAVE A TOUR AS WELL.
>> LET'S DO THAT. [LAUGHTER]. NO. THAT'S PERFECT BECAUSE THEN I'M IN MY ELEMENT.
>> I'D LIKE TO DO THAT TOO, SO WE'LL TRY AND GET ON A SCHEDULE. THANK YOU MS. WALLACE.
>> WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT ITEM,
[C. Cortland Lofts - Phase 3 Cultural Resource Study PROPERTY INFORMATION: Address: 5531 E Cortland Blv. Assessor's Parcel Number: 113-37-001E Property Owner: Mongini & Selna Childrens Irrevocable Living Trust - Miramonte, Developer. Applicant: Mogollon Engineering - Cornerstone Environmental, consultant. City Staff: Mark Reavis, HPO REQUESTED ACTION: Acceptance of a Phase 3 Cultural Resource Survey with full artifact recovery as performed, with pending dating test to be included later as an addendum. RECOMMENDED ACTION: Accept Phase 3 Cultural Resource Survey with conditions of: recommended excavator training and periodic site monitoring by consultant Pending test results and evaluation of data to be added as an addendum. Finding: Current submissions, data recovery with excavator training and monitoring is sufficient for the issuance of a construction permit.]
WHICH IS THE CORTLAND ROCKS PHASE III CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDY AT 5531 EAST CORTLAND BOULEVARD.THIS IS FOR ACCEPTANCE OF A PHASE 3 CULTURAL RESOURCE STUDY, WHICH IS EXCITING.
I'VE NEVER SEEN A PHASE 3 BEFORE.
MARK, IF YOU'D LIKE TO GO AHEAD?
>> YEAH. IT'S DEFINITELY EXCITING.
IT IS AN INDICATION OF EARLY HUMAN HABITATION WITHIN THE CAR, THE TOWN, THE PROJECT DID TOTAL ARTIFACT RECOVERY AND RECORDATION OF THE SITE.
THEY ARE WAITING TEST RESULTS THAT TAKE QUITE A BIT OF TIME TO CONFIRM THE DATES.
I AM DEFINITELY NOT AN ARCHAEOLOGIST.
I DO NOT CLAIM TO BE, BUT I AM DEFINITELY EXCITED THAT WE ARE PROTECTING CULTURAL RESOURCES WITHIN OUR TOWN THAT ARE ARCHAEOLOGICAL.
I NOW TURN THAT OVER TO OUR REPRESENTATIVE OF CORNERSTONE ENVIRONMENTAL WHO PREPARED THE REPORT.
>> HI. THANK YOU GUYS FOR LETTING ME PRESENT OUT WHAT WE FOUND.
LET ME SEE IF I CAN MAKE THIS WORK.
>> CAITLIN, CAN YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND YOUR QUALIFICATIONS.
I AM THE DIRECTOR OF CORNERSTONE ENVIRONMENTAL.
I HAVE BEEN WORKING IN ARIZONA FOR ABOUT 17 YEARS NOW.
[01:10:09]
I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING. WHILE I'M TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT, I WILL GIVE YOU A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON SOME OF THE WORK AND HOW WE GOT TO THIS POINT.IN MARCH OF 2021, WE DID AN INITIAL SURVEY OF THE PROJECT AREA AND WE FOUND TWO ISOLATED OCCURRENCES.
BASICALLY A SMALL AMOUNT OF ARTIFACTS THAT DON'T MEET THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR WHAT THE STATE WOULD CONSIDER IT TO BE A SITE.
THE PROJECT AREA IS LOCATED NORTHEAST SIDE, PRETTY MUCH DIRECTLY ACROSS THE HIGHWAY FROM THE [INAUDIBLE] PLANT,TO GIVE AN IDEA WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
WE HAD TWO ISOLATED OCCURRENCES WHERE WE'RE BASICALLY IN TWO SEPARATE LOCI OF THE PARCEL, AND THEY BOTH CONSISTED OF ABOUT 2-3 CERAMICS EACH.
ONE IN PARTICULAR SHOWED AN AREA OF DEPTH.
AFTER DISCUSSION WITH MARK AND AND THE COUNCIL, WE DECIDED TO DO SOME SHALLOW TESTING TO DETERMINE IF THERE WAS ANY SUBSURFACE POTENTIAL IN THIS AREA.
THESE ARE THE LOCATIONS OF THE TWO ISOLATED OCCURRENCES.
THE ONE ON THE FAR WEST SIDE WAS ACTUALLY RIGHT ALONG PHILS, SO MAY HAVE BEEN BROUGHT IN PER SE.
WHEN WE DID THE SHOVEL TESTING, WE DID THIS SHOVEL TESTING AROUND BOTH.
WE FOUND NO ARTIFACTS AROUND IO2, BUT AROUND IO1, WE FOUND A HANDFUL OF THE SHOVEL TESTED, TESTED POSITIVE, AND WE IDENTIFIED TWO AREAS THAT MIGHT BE A SUBSURFACE FEATURE.
FOLLOWING THAT STEP, WE AGREED TO DO WHAT WE WOULD CALL BOUNDARY TESTING, WHICH IS WE PUT IN MECHANICAL TRENCHES THROUGHOUT WHERE THE ARTIFACTS SCATTER WAS.
THE TWO ORANGE AREAS INDICATE THE POTENTIAL FEATURES.
ALL OF THE TRENCHES CAME BACK NEGATIVE THAT WEREN'T IN THE ORANGE AND THE SOUTH EASTERN ONE ENDED UP BEING LESS THAN A FOOT DEEP AND WAS A NATURAL FEATURE.
THE NORTHERN ORANGE BOUNDARY ENDED UP GOING THROUGH A PRAIRIE DOG [INAUDIBLE] AND WENT, I BELIEVE FIVE FEET.
WHAT WE FOUND THERE WAS EVIDENCE OF A PITHOUSE STRUCTURE.
UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S BEEN PRETTY DAMAGED DUE TO THE PRAIRIE DOG COLONY.
ONCE WE IDENTIFIED THE STRUCTURE IN THE TRENCHES, WE DID SOME SYSTEMATIC EXCAVATION.
AT MINIMUM 50 PERCENT THOUGH WE ENDED UP RECOVERING PROBABLY MORE LIKE 70 PERCENT OF THE PITHOUSE JUST BASED ON THE LOCATION OF THE TRENCHES.
I WILL GO OVER A LITTLE BIT OF THE FINDINGS THAT WE FOUND.
THE PITHOUSE APPEARED TO BE BURNED, AND A LOT OF THE ARTIFACTS THAT WE WOULD FIND IN A TYPICAL IN-USE HOUSE WE FOUND INSTRUCTOR, SO IT WASN'T CLEANED OUT, WHICH IS TYPICAL OF A LOT OF PITHOUSES PRIOR TO ABANDONMENT.
THE CERAMICS WE FOUND WERE LARGELY RIO DE FLAG THAT WE HAD SOME EARLY TUSAYAN WHITE WARE, WHICH BASICALLY THESE ARE SOME OF THE EARLIEST CERAMICS IN NORTHERN ARIZONA.
AS EARLY AS 700 CE, WE FOUND SIX COMPLETE OR PARTIALLY RECONSTRUCTABLE VESSELS, INCLUDING A COMPLETE SEED JAR, WHICH IS IN THE TOP-LEFT, A PIGMENT PALETTE, WHICH WAS IN THE BOTTOM-LEFT, AND A NEARLY COMPLETE KANA'A BLACK-ON-WHITE BOWL, WHICH IS A WHITE WEAR.
THE OTHER RECONSTRUCTABLE VESSELS WERE ALL LARGE PLANE WARE JARS, THEY'RE THE BLACK JARS.
WE ALSO FOUND SOME GROUND STONE, INCLUDING TWO METATES AND TWO MANOS THAT REFIT AND ONE MAUL, THE HAMMER BASICALLY.
[01:15:03]
SO WE DIDN'T FIND ANY TOOLS LIKE ARROWHEADS OR THE PROJECTILE POINTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.MOSTLY WHAT WE FOUND WAS JUST THREE PIECES OF DEBITAGE, WHICH IS BASICALLY THE PIECES THAT WOULD COME UP AND WHEN YOU'RE PRODUCING IN YOUR HEAD.
IT'S NOT PARTICULARLY DIAGNOSTIC, BUT IT IS INTERESTING THAT WE FOUND SO LITTLE IN SUCH A LARGE AREA OF EXCAVATION CONSIDERING WE FOUND SO MUCH OF EVERYTHING.
SO SOME OF THE TESTING THAT WE DID ON THESE ARTIFACTS WAS MACRO BOTANICAL, WHICH JUST MEANS WE'RE LOOKING FOR SEEDS, POLLEN, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT MIGHT TELL US WHAT THESE JARS WERE USED FOR.
IN THE SMALL SEED JAR, THE MOST INTERESTING THING WE FOUND WAS DATURA SEEDS WHICH IS AT A RATE OF 1900S PER LITER, WHICH IS INCREDIBLY HIGH FOR SUCH A SMALL VESSEL.
BUT ALSO SINCE DATURA SEEDS WERE PRIMARILY USED FOR HOLISTIC REASONS AND HAVE LIMITED ACTIVITY FOCUS, IT'S PRETTY UNCOMMON THAT WE FIND THEM STILL IN JARS AND ALSO THAT WE FIND THEM IN SUCH HIGH QUANTITIES.
ONE OF THE ADDITIONAL ANALYSES THAT WE WILL BE CONDUCTING THAT WE'RE WAITING ON, AS MARK MENTIONED, IS WE'RE DOING WHAT WE CALL POLLEN WASH, WHICH MEANS RATHER THAN JUST TAKING THE SOIL OUT OF THE VESSEL, WE ARE TRYING TO GET ANY ADDITIONAL RESIDUE FROM INSIDE THE VESSEL THAT MAY HAVE ADHERED TO THE CERAMICS.
THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY TAKE A LONG TIME, BUT THE POLLEN LAB SHUT DOWN FOR AWHILE, SO WE'RE STILL WAITING ON THOSE.
WE ALSO DID SOME C-14 OR RADIOCARBON DATING.
WE FOUND TWO INTACT POSTS WITHIN THE STRUCTURE THAT WE EXCAVATED.
THOSE DATES CAME BACK REALLY QUITE EARLY, 659 TO 774 AND 560 TO 650.
THESE AREN'T NECESSARILY REPRESENTATIVE OF THE DATE OF OCCUPATION.
ONE OF THE MAJOR ISSUES THAT COMES WITH C-14 DATING IS WHAT WE CALL THE OLD WOOD PROBLEM, WHICH MEANS YOU'RE GAINING THE ACTUAL WOOD, WHICH COULD BE 200 YEARS OLDER WHEN CUT DOWN AND USED.
BECAUSE OF THAT, WE'VE ALSO SUBMITTED THOSE TWO POSTS FOR DENDROCHRONOLOGY DATES, WHICH COULD POTENTIALLY NOT ONLY GET US A CUTTING DATE, SO THE DATE WHEN THE ACTUAL TREE WAS CUT DOWN, WHICH WOULD BE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE INFORMATIVE THAN THE C-14 DATING.
HAVING SAID ALL THAT, SOME OF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE'RE MAKING MOVING FORWARD AND TO KEEP IN MIND WHILE THE PITHOUSE ITSELF IS PARTICULARLY INTERESTING AND WE EXPECT TO HAVE SOME PRETTY INTERESTING RESULTS, THE PITHOUSE ITSELF HAS BEEN COMPLETELY EXCAVATED, THERE IS NOTHING LEFT.
ADDITIONALLY, WE DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING ELSE IN ANY OF THE TRENCHES OR ANY OTHER SURFACE EVIDENCE OF ADDITIONAL STRUCTURES.
BECAUSE OF THAT, WE'RE RECOMMENDING THREE THINGS.
ONCE WE GET THE RESULTS, WHICH AS MARK MENTIONED, CAN TAKE QUITE AWHILE, WE WANT TO PUT TOGETHER A MORE FORMAL PHASE III REPORT, WHICH WILL INCLUDE THE ADDITIONAL ANALYSES AS WELL AS COMPARING IT TO THE LARGER FLAGSTAFF AREA AND OTHER STRUCTURES THAT HAVE BEEN FOUND LIKE IT.
AS FOR MOVING WITH THE CONSTRUCTION FORWARD SINCE WE HAVE COMPLETELY REMOVED, WHAT WE DO KNOW IS WE HAVE RECOMMENDED THAT IT WOULD BE BEST TO PROVIDE CULTURAL SENSITIVITY AS WELL AS AN OVERVIEW OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL MATERIALS THAT MIGHT BE ENCOUNTERED FOR ALL CONSTRUCTION PERSONNEL PRIOR TO CONSTRUCTION JUST SO THAT THEY KNOW WHAT MIGHT BE OUT THERE AS WELL AS ONCE A WEEK SPOT MONITORING DURING THE CONSTRUCTION.
BECAUSE, WHILE WE DON'T HAVE ANY REASON TO ASSUME THAT THERE IS ADDITIONAL MATERIAL, NOT EVERYTHING IS GOING TO SHOW UP ON THE SURFACE.
THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO TO SEE IF THERE IS ANYTHING OUT THERE AND IF SO, WE WOULD RECOMMEND APPLYING THE CITY OF PHOENIX MONITORING DISCOVERY PLAN FOR INADVERTENT DISCOVERIES.
WE WOULD TREAT THEM IN A WAY THAT'S ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED BY CITY OF PHOENIX, WHICH HAS A GREAT PLAN.
[01:20:02]
IF WE CAME ACROSS ANOTHER FEATURE, WE WOULD EXCAVATE 50 PERCENT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE GATHERING ALL THE NECESSARY INFORMATION PRIOR TO ANY DESTRUCTION.I THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT I HAVE TO SAY BUT I'D BE OPEN TO ANY QUESTIONS.
>> THANK YOU, CAITLIN. DO ANY OF THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR EITHER MARK OR CAITLIN?
>> EXCUSE ME, CAITLIN, THIS IS COMMISSIONER DALE.
I WAS JUST CURIOUS, WITH THESE PITHOUSES, DO YOU TYPICALLY SEE THEM WITH OTHER THINGS NEARBY OR CERTAIN DISTANCES, OR YOU REALLY BELIEVE IT COULD JUST BE A VERY ISOLATED STRUCTURE?
>> IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. IF THIS WAS A PITHOUSE, IT COULD BE BY ITSELF FOR QUITE A DISTANCE AND IT COULD, IN THEORY BE THE ONLY ONE ON THAT PARCEL.
THERE'S ALSO THE POSSIBILITY OF HAVING PITHOUSE VILLAGES BUT AGAIN, WE'RE NOT SEEING ANY INDICATION THAT THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE BASED ON THE SURFACE AND THE LIMITED TESTING THAT WE HAVE CONDUCTED.
>> SORRY, CAITLIN, WHAT'S A PITHOUSE?
>> PITHOUSES BASICALLY, THEY ARE SINGLE HOUSES SET OUT IN AGRICULTURAL FIELDS TOO AND THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY USED YEAR-ROUND, BUT MAINLY AS TO ALLOW FOR EASIER HARVESTING AND EASIER CULTIVATION.
>> DO WE HAVE PREVIOUS EVIDENCE THAT THE AREA AROUND THE RIO THERE WAS CULTIVATED?
>> YEAH, AND THERE IS EVIDENCE OF TEMPORARY HABITATION STRUCTURES IN THE AREA, SO IT COULD FIT THAT MODEL FOR SURE.
>> THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER DALE, DO YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD?
>> I TAKE THE LEFT LEG STEP DOES NOT HAVE ITS OWN MONITORING PROTOCOLS, THAT'S WHY WE'RE BORROWING THE CITY OF PHOENIX'S.
>> FOLLOW-UP QUESTION TO THAT I THINK IS MIXED QUESTION FOR CAITLIN AND MARK.
UNDER WHAT WE'RE ALLOWED TO DO FOR OUR HERITAGE PRESERVATION CODES, WHAT GIVES US THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT.
THEN I THINK THE OTHER FOLLOW-UP QUESTION TO CAITLIN IS, IS THERE SOMETHING THAT YOUR CLIENT IS HAPPILY AGREED TO OR OTHERWISE?
>> I BELIEVE WITHIN CITY CODE AND THE NEED TO HAVE THIS LEVEL OF RECORDATION THAT WE ARE ALLOWED TO REQUEST MONITORING AND TRAINING.
>> AS FOR MY CLIENT MIRRIAM MONTANE, WHEN I FIND THE INFORMATION, I PRESENTED THESE TO THEM AND THEY AGREED AND FOUND IT TO BE APPROPRIATE.
>> OKAY. THANK YOU. [OVERLAPPING]
>> CHAIRMAN, JUST TO UNDERSTAND THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS, IT'S GOING TO BE A LARGE AMOUNT OF HOUSING.
THE CONSTRUCTION GOING TO GO FROM WEST TO EAST.
PHASE 1 WILL BE AT THE WEST AT THAT DRIVE AND THEN WORK ITS WAY TO THE EAST.
BUT I THINK THAT ALSO ADDS A CERTAIN LEVEL OF PROTECTION AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT THAT SITE IS.
>> THANK YOU MARK. COMMISSIONER HORN.
I JUST WOULD LIKE TO COMPLIMENT CORNERSTONE FOR NOT JUST TOTALLY STICKING TO THE ASM SITE DEFINITION AND WRITING THIS OFF BECAUSE THERE WEREN'T ENOUGH SURFACE ARTIFACTS BUT USING THEIR KNOWLEDGE AND DISCRETION TO RECOMMEND ADDITIONAL TESTING TO REALLY SEE IF THERE WAS SOMETHING, SOME SURFACE BECAUSE I THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EASY JUST TO WRITE THIS OFF.
SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR LEVEL OF PROFESSIONALISM THERE.
>> THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE IT.
>> THANK YOU COMMISSIONER HORN.
HOPEFULLY MARK HELPED YOU WITH THAT TOO.
COMMISSIONER DEA, DO YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD?
>> YES. I WAS JUST WONDERING, I SEE THE STEPS.
THEY WERE ON YOUR SCREEN AND NOW I CAN'T REMEMBER THE STEPS
[01:25:02]
OF MOVING FORWARD BUT IS THERE ANY REASON THAT YOU WOULDN'T JUST FOLLOW THAT PHOENIX PROTOCOL LIKE START THERE.I JUST WONDER IF THE RISK OF DAMAGE, AND JUST WEEKLY MONITORING IF THERE IS POTENTIALLY MORE TO BE DISCOVERED.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? IT SEEMS LIKE A STEPPED PROCESS AND IF IT'S WARRANTED, THEN YOU WOULD MOVE TO THAT PROTOCOL?
>> I CAN EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT. THE REASON THAT WE TOOK THE STEPS THAT WE DID WAS [INAUDIBLE] GETTING OUT IS THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE FAIRLY MEET THE CRITERIA SO WE DIDN'T WANT TO JUMP RIGHT INTO TESTING.
>> WE'LL SEE. SORRY, I'VE BEEN SICK.
WE WANTED TO IDENTIFY THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING THERE FIRST BEFORE WE WENT INTO LARGE SCALE EXCAVATION.
THE MONITORING PLAN PROVIDES INFORMATION FOR INADVERTENT DISCOVERIES, WHICH WOULD BE ANYTHING WE FIND FROM HERE ON OUT. DOES THAT HELP?
>> OKAY. WONDERFUL. MARK, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD?
>> YEAH. THIS ARCHITECT WAS VERY MUCH IMPRESSED WHEN YOU ACTUALLY GET TO LOOK AT THESE ITEMS AND SEE THE DETAILS TO THEM AND LOOK AT THE MATATE AND THE MONO AND UNDERSTANDS [LAUGHTER] THE POWER THAT IT TOOK TO DO THIS AGRICULTURAL PROCESS.
AGAIN, I'VE BEEN ONE OVER GREATLY BY WHAT WAS DOCUMENTED FROM THIS SITE AND I DO APPRECIATE CORNERSTONES PROFESSIONALISM.
>> THANK YOU, MARK. I HAVE TO AGREE I DON'T THINK WE'VE SEEN ANYTHING QUITE AS SPECIAL PRESENTED TO US.
AN OVER A 1000 YEAR OLD ORIGINAL NATIVE ARTIFACT.
I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE SINCE I'VE BEEN ON A COMMISSION.
IT REALLY DOES FEEL LIKE WE'RE REALLY DOING THE WORK THAT WAS ALL SET UP TO DO.
I'M REALLY HAPPY AND REALLY PROUD OF THE WORK YOU GUYS HAVE DONE.
DO WE WANT TO MOVE AHEAD WITH A MOTION.
IF YOU GUYS LIKE TO PULL UP THE AGENDA.
MARK DOES HAVE TWO CONDITIONS ON THAT MOTION.
COMMISSIONER DALE, YOU HAD SOMEBODY YOU WANT TO ADD BEFORE?
>> YEAH. I'M JUST WONDERING HOW MUCH AND MARK CAN PRETTY ANSWER THIS, HOW MUCH THOSE LINE UP WITH THE SUGGESTIONS THAT WERE PRESENTED TO US IN THE PRESENTATION? IF THOSE ARE DIFFERENT.
I BELIEVE IT WAS A DISCUSSION AND AGAIN, THAT'S MY COMMUNICATION WITH THE CONSULT AND THEN THE CONSULTANTS TALKING TO THE DEVELOPER.
I BELIEVE WE'RE GETTING A REASONABLE LEVEL WITHOUT BEING EXCESSIVE.
>> I THINK KELLY WAS COMMENT EARLIER THAT THE CLIENT IS ON BOARD WITH THOSE SITES.
>> YEAH AND REVIEWING IT, IT JUST LOOKS LIKE THE ONE THING THAT'S MISSING ON THE RECOMMENDED ACTION IS THAT WE USE THE CITY OF PHOENIX MONITORING GUIDELINES.
THAT'S THE ARCHITECT NOT BEING NOT FAMILIAR WITH ARCHAEOLOGY.
>> IS THAT SOMETHING WE SHOULD ADD IN THEN?
>> THAT WOULD SEEM APPROPRIATE? IT WOULD GIVE THEM GUIDANCE.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT, CAITLIN?
>> YEAH. I COULD ALSO PROVIDE A COPY OF
[01:30:05]
THE MONITORING PLAN HIGHLIGHTING THE AREAS THAT WILL BE APPLICABLE TO THIS SITUATION. IF THAT WILL HELP.>> IT COULD MAYBE THAT LAST SCREEN BE PULLED UP AGAIN THAT OUTLINES THAT VERBIAGE? YOUR RECOMMENDATION, CAITLIN.
>> YEAH. THIS IS COMMISSIONER HORN.
I THINK THE OTHER PART OF THAT THAT'S IMPORTANT AS IT ADDRESSES THE TREATMENT OF INADVERTENT DISCOVERIES AND TYPICALLY INADVERTENT DISCOVERIES THAT LANGUAGE RELATES TO BURIALS AND ASSOCIATED FUNERARY OBJECTS.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THERE'S A PLAN IN PLACE FOR IF ANY OF THOSE ITEMS ARE DISCOVERED, HOW THOSE WILL BE RETREATED.
>> YEAH AND ALSO, DESPITE THE FACT THAT IT'S ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, WE OBVIOUSLY WILL HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE ARIZONA BURIAL LAWS AS WELL.
>> ALL RIGHT. SHELLY YOU ASKED FOR THE SLIDE.
DOES THAT MEAN YOU WANT TO MAKE THE MOTION? [LAUGHTER]
[LAUGHTER] HOLD ON ONE SECOND.
I'LL GIVE IT A SHOT. I [NOISE] MOTION TO ACCEPT PHASE 3 CULTURAL RESOURCE SURVEY WITH THE CONDITIONS. THIS IS GOING TO BE ROUGH.
>> I THINK YOU CAN JUST READ WHAT'S ON THE SCREEN TO BE HONEST.
>> EXCUSE ME, WITH THE CONDITIONS OF ADDENDUM TO THE REPORT ONCE ADDITIONAL DENDROCHRONOLOGY, POLLEN WASH, AND ARTIFACT ANALYSIS ARE COMPLETE.
CULTURAL SENSITIVITY AND AWARENESS TRAINING FOR ALL CONSTRUCTION PERSONNEL.
ONCE A WEEK SPOT MONITORING OF THE CONSTRUCTION TO ASSESS AND DOCUMENT ANY ADDITIONAL CULTURAL MATERIAL THAT MAY BE PRESENT AND APPLICATION OF THE CITY OF PHOENIX MONITORING AND DISCOVERY PLAN FOR INADVERTENT DISCOVERIES.
>> GOOD WORK. DO WE HAVE A SECOND?
>> WE'VE GOT A MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER DEA AND A SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER DALE.
>> ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY.
CAITLIN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR HARD WORK.
WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE IT AND I'D LIKE TO SEE THOSE ARTIFACTS SOMETIME IF I CAN.
WHERE ARE THEY CAITLIN RIGHT NOW?
>> THEY'RE CURRENTLY AT CORNERSTONE FSM IN MUMBAI.
WE ARE ALSO WORKING WITH THE PRIVATE LANDOWNERS TO HOPEFULLY CURATE SOME OF THEM.
BUT AT THE VERY MINIMUM WE ARE DOING 3D MODELING OF ALL THE COMPLETE ARTIFACTS AS WELL.
>> COOL. I'M GOING TO STOP BY AND SEE.
>> WE WILL MOVE ON TO REPORTS.
[7. REPORTS]
APPROVALS, CONSULTATIONS.>> WE HAVE HIT OUR HOUR-AND-A-HALF LIMIT IN MY OPINION.
THERE ARE SOME INTERESTING THINGS GOING ON.
UNLESS SOMEBODY HAS A SPECIFIC I'VE TRIED TO PUT IT DOWN ON MY REPORTS.
IF ANYBODY WANTS TO NOTE ONE OF THESE I FEEL THAT I'VE ADDRESSED THEM AS COMPLETE.
>> THANKS, MARK. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE SPECIFIC ONES? MARK, I WOULD SAY WE DO APPRECIATE THE REPORTS AND CONSULTATIONS BECAUSE AS YOU POINTED OUT BEFORE, THAT GAVE US THE HEADS UP ON THESE ISSUES AND CALLING THAT YOU ARE CONTINUING TO WORK ON.
THANK YOU FOR THAT. ANY ANYTHING FROM ANY COMMISSIONERS? I'M NOT SEEING ANYTHING SO WE'LL I'LL MOVE ON TO MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS, ANNOUNCEMENTS.
[8. MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS TO/FROM COMMISSION MEMBERS]
DO WE HAVE ANY? COMMISSION HORN DO YOU HAVE ANY ANNOUNCEMENTS?I SAW ON THE LAST MINUTES THAT THERE WAS A RETURN TO THE HYBRID FORMAT LATER THIS SUMMER AND I JUST WONDERED IF THAT WAS ON HAND AND STILL ON TRACK AND HOW RISING COVID RATES NOW WOULD AFFECT THAT.
[01:35:04]
>> MR. CHAIRMAN I THINK WE'LL TAKE THE ADVICE OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN CHARGE OF THAT AT THE CITY AND THEY'LL GIVE THE CLEAR OR NOT.
>> THANKS MARK. AMY, IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE A MOVING TARGET SO THEY WILL CHANGE IT IF RATES GO OVER WHATEVER THEIR BENCHMARK IS.
I THINK ALSO WITH THE MODEL WE HAVE NOW.
IF ANYONE DOESN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE ATTENDING THEY'RE ALWAYS ABLE TO ATTEND REMOTELY INSTEAD OF IN-PERSON.
>> THEN I WOULD EMPHASIZE AGAIN SINCE AMY WORDS ABOUT COVID DON'T NEED TO BE YOUR ONLY REASON TO WANT TO ATTEND VIRTUALLY.
IF YOU HAVE OTHER REASONS PLEASE DO THAT.
[NOISE] MARK, I HAD A QUESTION FOR YOU THAT CAME UP.
SORRY. DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE YOU WANT TO ADD FIRST?
>> NO, I WAS JUST SAYING IT'S BEEN HIGHLY EFFECTIVE HAVING THE REMOTE MEETINGS BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT HAD TO DELAY.
WE'VE ONLY HAD TO DELAY ONE MEETING.
>> YEAH, EXACTLY. IT DOES MAKE IT MUCH EASIER TO MAKE SURE WE GET A QUORUM SO WE'RE NOT DELAYING ANY OF THE APPLICANTS.
MARK, CAN I MAKE A REQUEST IN REGARDS TO THE $10,000 LIMIT FOR THE FACADE GRANT IF WE CAN LOOK AT WHEN THAT WAS IMPLEMENTED? WHAT INFLATION HAS LOOKED LIKE SINCE THEN AND WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO INCREASE IT TO MATCH THAT, WHETHER THAT'S $12,000 OR WHATEVER IT IS.
IS THAT SOMETHING YOU GUYS CAN WORK ON?
>> YEAH. MR. CHAIRMAN, I WOULD DEFINITELY WORK ON THAT.
I DO THINK WE NEED TO TARGET THAT.
THE GUIDELINES ARE PRETTY LOOSE.
I WOULD DEFINITELY LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR ALLOCATION IS SPENT AND THAT WE'RE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT WE SPEND IT ON.
THERE'S ALSO A LIMITATION ON ONE GRANT PER TIME.
SOMETIMES VERY LARGE PROJECTS, IT WOULD SEEM MORE APPROPRIATE TO PROVIDE MORE MONEY ON TO BALANCE THAT WHOLE EFFORT OUT. I'LL WORK ON THAT.
>> I THINK WE AS A COMMISSION HAD DISCUSSED THIS BEFORE AND THOUGHT ABOUT MAYBE A FIVE-YEAR TIMELINE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IF WE'VE GOT SOMETHING WE CAN BRING TO A FUTURE COMMISSION THAT'D BE GREAT.
COMMISSIONER DEA YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD.
>> YES. I'M SORRY TO KEEP THIS MEETING GOING, BUT YOU BROUGHT UP GUIDE THE GUIDELINES AND MAYBE BEING INADEQUATE.
I KNOW SEVERAL OF US MAYBE FELT FRUSTRATED ABOUT FEELING LIKE OUR HANDS WERE TIED ON SOME OF THE DECISIONS TODAY.
WHERE CAN WE GO AS A COMMISSION? HOW DO WE MOVE FORWARD ON CHANGING SOME OF THAT LANGUAGE TO PROTECT OUR HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS? I MEAN, WHERE CAN WE REALLY MAKE SOME MEANINGFUL IMPACT IN THAT VERBIAGE?
>> YEAH, SHELLI I THINK WE'VE MADE A LITTLE BIT OF PROGRESS IN GETTING SOME BUDGET ALLOCATED TO WORKING ON THESE COMMISSION ITEMS. WE ARE NOT AT THE TOP OF THE PRIORITY LIST FOR COUNCIL.
IT'S JUST THAT THAT'S THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THEY HAVE TO CERTAIN EXTENT HAVE BIGGER FISH TO FRY AND IT DOES COME DOWN TO MONEY.
WRITING OR REWRITING THESE GUIDELINES IS A PRETTY INTENSIVE PROCESS THAT REQUIRES A LOT OF PUBLIC OUTREACH AND THEREFORE, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I CAN JUST WILLY-NILLY ADD TO MARK AND SARAH'S WORKLOAD.
IT DOES NEED OUTSIDE ASSISTANCE.
WE WERE MOVING RELATIVELY WELL IN THAT DIRECTION OF GETTING SOME OF THIS STUFF ON THE AGENDA IN THE WORK PROGRAM.
WE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF AN UPDATE FROM SARAH PREVIOUSLY THAT THAT WAS GOING TO BE DELAYED A TOUCH.
DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD TO THAT?
>> YEAH, WE ARE WORKING TOWARD THAT GOAL.
OUR CODE WRITER, TIFFANY [INAUDIBLE] IS UPDATING CODE ITEMS.
[01:40:06]
WE'LL KEEP MENTIONING THAT AND SEEING IF WE CAN PUT OUR FOOT IN THE DOOR ON THAT.THERE WAS ALSO A THOUGHT PROCESS ON THE CONFUSION OF THE TOWN SITE OVERLAY AND MY THOUGHT THAT A CHEAT SHEET, I WOULD CALL IT WHERE WE'RE LOOKING AT AND ORGANIZING IT MORE CLEARLY WHERE IT'S A STATED STANDARD, WHERE IT'S A GUIDELINE, AND WHERE IT IS INTENSE.
I THINK WE COULD MAKE A CHEAT SHEET THAT WOULD BE MORE OF A CHECK-OFF TYPE OF THING SO THAT IT'S NOT SO CONFUSING FLIPPING THROUGH THE ACTUAL DOCUMENT.
THAT WOULD HELP ME OUT. I THINK IT WOULD HELP COMMISSIONERS AS AS WELL.
WE'LL STILL HAVE TO USE THE DOCUMENT ITSELF, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE CLEARER IF WE HAD A ONE-PAGE TYPE OF THING THAT WE CAN LOOK AT.
>> YEAH, MARK I REALLY LOVE THAT IDEA BECAUSE LIKE YOU SAID THERE'S PROBABLY ABOUT ONE PAGE OF STUFF IN THE TOWN SITE GUIDELINES THAT ARE CONCRETE, CAN'T MESS AROUND WITH.
THEN THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF FLOSS AS WELL THAT LIKE YOU SAID, IT GIVES YOU INTENT, BUT IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY TELL YOU WHAT YOU CAN OR CANNOT DO.
THAT'S SOMETHING YOU COULD DO ADMINISTRATIVELY SO WE'RE NOT WAITING FOR FOUR YEARS.
>> YES, THERE WOULD JUST BE A WORKING DOCUMENT TO CLARIFY.
>> THEN MARK THE YOU MENTIONED TIFFANY MOVING INTO THE ZONING CODE POSITION BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SARAH HAD MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY AS BEING MIGHT POTENTIALLY DELAYING US BECAUSE THAT POSITION WAS VACANT. IS THAT CORRECT?
>> YES. SHE'S VERY QUALIFIED, VERY FAMILIAR WITH THINGS, AND UNDERSTANDS THE ISSUES.
SHE'S BEEN HERE FOR MORE THAN WE REALIZE, BUT OUR NEW PLANNING DIRECTOR, MICHELE MCNULTY SHE KEEPS GETTING CHASED OUT OF HER HOUSING WITH FIRES, BUT SHE SURVIVES.
YEAH, WE CAN INVITE THOSE TWO PEOPLE TO A MEETING TO GET AN UPDATE AS WELL.
>> THANKS, MARK. THAT EXPLAINS WHY SHE DOESN'T RESPOND TO MY E-MAIL, SO I'M GOING TO CUT HER SOME SLACK.
DO ANY OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? I'M NOT SEEING ANY SO WE WILL ADJOURN BY UNANIMOUS CONSENT AT 5: 46 PM.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. EVERYBODY. HAVE A GOOD EVENING.
SEE YOU TONIGHT. [OVERLAPPING]
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.