[00:00:02] >> ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO GET STARTED. WELCOME EVERYONE. [1. Call to Order NOTICE OF OPTION TO RECESS INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION Pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.02, notice is hereby given to the members of the City Council and to the general public that, at this work session, the City Council may vote to go into executive session, which will not be open to the public, for discussion and consultation with the City’s attorneys for legal advice on any item listed on the following agenda, pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.03(A)(3).] ECHO. TODAY IS TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 12TH, 2023 AND IT IS A WORK SESSION. I AM CALLING THIS MEETING TO ORDER. NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN TO THE MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC THAT AT THIS WORK SESSION, THE CITY COUNCIL MAY VOTE TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION, WHICH WILL NOT BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR DISCUSSION AND CONSULTATION WITH THE CITY'S ATTORNEYS FOR LEGAL ADVICE ON ANY ITEM LISTED ON THE FOLLOWING AGENDA. CAN I HAVE ROLL CALL? >> MARY DAGGETT. >> HERE. >> VICE MAYOR ASHLYNN. >> AT HOME WITH THE COLD BUT PRESENT. >> COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS. >> HERE. >> COUNCIL MEMBER HOUSE. >> I'M HERE. >> COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS. >> HERE. >> COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY. >> HERE. >> COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET. >> HERE. >> THANK YOU. WHO DID I ASK TO DO THE PLEDGE? COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET, WOULD YOU LEAD US IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE? >> WOULD BE MY HONOR. PLEASE STAND IF YOU'RE ABLE. >> >> COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS, OUR MISSION STATEMENT. >> MY PLEASURE. THE MISSION OF THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF IS TO PROTECT AND ENHANCE THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR ALL. >> COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY OR LAND ACKNOWLEDGMENT. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR. THE FLAGSTAFF CITY COUNCIL HUMBLY ACKNOWLEDGES THE ANCESTRAL HOMELANDS OF THIS AREA'S INDIGENOUS NATIONS AND THE ORIGINAL STEWARDS. THESE LANDS STILL INHABITED BY NATIVE DESCENDANTS, BORDER MOUNTAIN SACRED TO INDIGENOUS PEOPLES. WE HONOR THEM, THEIR LEGACIES, THEIR TRADITIONS, AND THEIR CONTINUED CONTRIBUTIONS. WE CELEBRATE THEIR PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE GENERATIONS WHO WILL FOREVER KNOW THIS PLACE AS HOME. >> ALL RIGHT, WE'RE MOVING DOWN TO PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. [4. Public Participation Public Participation enables the public to address the council about items that are not on the prepared agenda. Public Participation appears on the agenda twice, at the beginning and at the end of the work session. You may speak at one or the other, but not both. Anyone wishing to comment at the meeting is asked to fill out a speaker card and submit it to the recording clerk. When the item comes up on the agenda, your name will be called. You may address the Council up to three times throughout the meeting, including comments made during Public Participation. Please limit your remarks to three minutes per item to allow everyone to have an opportunity to speak. At the discretion of the Chair, ten or more persons present at the meeting and wishing to speak may appoint a representative who may have no more than fifteen minutes to speak.] THIS ENABLES THE PUBLIC TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL ABOUT ITEMS THAT ARE NOT ON THE PREPARED AGENDA. IT APPEARS ON THE AGENDA TWICE, AT THE BEGINNING AND AT THE END OF THIS WORK SESSION. YOU MAY SPEAK AT ONE OR THE OTHER, BUT NOT BOTH. ANYONE WISHING TO COMMENT AT THE MEETING IS ASKED TO FILL OUT A SPEAKER CARD, WHICH ARE LOCATED ON THE TABLE BACK THERE, AND SUBMIT IT TO THE RECORDING CLERK. WHEN YOUR ITEM COMES UP ON THE AGENDA, YOUR NAME WILL BE CALLED. YOU MAY ADDRESS THE COUNCIL UP TO THREE TIMES THROUGHOUT THE MEETING, INCLUDING COMMENTS MADE DURING PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. PLEASE LIMIT YOUR REMARKS TO THREE MINUTES. THERE IS A CLOCK UP HERE THAT YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE WHEN YOU'RE SPEAKING. I'M GOING TO CALL THE FIRST PARTICIPANT, CHUCK CRANDELL. >> THANK YOU. MARY DAGGETT. I'M HERE TO TALK TODAY ABOUT DOG BARKING, IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD [NOISE]. I THINK YOU GET THE IDEA. THE TIMER IS NOT WORKING. [BACKGROUND] WONDERFUL. THANK YOU. THIS IS THE TYPE OF BARKING THAT I JUST PLAYED A SHORT VIDEO ON HAS BEEN GOING ON IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD FOR YEARS. I CALL IT INCIDENT BARKING, WHERE THE DOG WILL BARK AT DEER IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE POST OFFICE, THE MAIL DELIVERY PACKAGE DELIVERY, CITY CODE 6-02-003. I WILL READ IT. "PROHIBITED ACTS BARKING AND HANDLING DOGS IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR ANY PERSON OWNING OR HAVING THE CARE, CUSTODY, AND CONTROL OF ANY DOG TO PERMIT SAID DOG TO BARK AT BAY, HOW OR MAKE ANY OTHER NOISE DAY OR NIGHT, IN SUCH AN UNREASONABLE MANNER AS TO DISTURB THE PEACE AND QUIET OF ANY PERSON OR PERSONS." I WAS TOLD ON 10TH SEPTEMBER 2023, [00:05:03] IT'S A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO, BY CITY OF FLAGSTAFF, POLICE STAFFER, THAT CLF, CITY OF FLAGSTAFF, WILL NOT OR DOES NOT ENFORCE THE ORDINANCE ABOVE, UNLESS THE DOG IS BARKING CONTINUOUSLY. THE DOGS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD DO NOT BARK CONTINUOUSLY. THEY INCIDENT BARK AT THINGS THROUGHOUT THE DAY. LACK OF ENFORCEMENT HAS ALSO BEEN MY OBSERVATION OVER THE YEARS, ENFORCEMENT BEING THEY COME, THEY DON'T HEAR THE DOG, AND THEN THEY LEAVE. THEN THEY MAKE A STATEMENT OR A REPORT THAT THE DOG WAS NOT BARKING. GOT TO GET GOING. MY QUESTION IS, HOW DOES THE US POLICE GET FROM 6-02-003 TO CONTINUOUS BARKING ONLY? I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT. SOON, I'M GOING TO BE ASKING, IN WRITING, ON HOW CLF POLICE EMPIRICALLY GETS FROM THAT ORDINANCE TO CONTINUOUS BARKING AND EXCLUDES INCIDENT BARKING. I WAS TOLD ON 10TH SEPTEMBER 2023 BY POLICE THAT BARKING, OR WHAT I CALL INCIDENT BARKING TO BE PROVOKED BARKING. IF A DOG SEES A DEER IN THE FOREST, THAT'S CALLED PROVOKE BARKING. WELL, I ONLY GOT THROUGH HALFWAY. >> EXCUSE ME JUST A MINUTE. COULD YOU PUT 20 SECONDS ON THE CLOCK? IS THAT POSSIBLE? FOR THE TIME THAT. >> I CAN PUT A MINUTE. I CANNOT DO SECONDS. I'M SORRY, MAYOR. >> OKAY. WOULD YOU DO THAT? >> YOU BET. >> THANK YOU. >> I'M ALMOST THROUGH. I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE ORDINANCE ABOVE THAT I READ TO YOU IS FOR CONTINUOUS BARKING ONLY. THAT'S NOT WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAYS. A CLF POLICE PERSON TOLD ME THAT IF IT'S PROVOKED BARKING, THAT BASICALLY THEY WILL NOT ENFORCE THAT. THAT'S PRETTY MUCH IN CLOSING. I'VE HAD CLF STAFFERS EXHIBIT ANGER AND CONTEMPT TOWARD ME FOR EXPRESSING MY CONCERN ABOUT THIS MATTER. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. DEBORAH DRE. >> MAYOR, CITY COUNCIL, THANK YOU. CITY STAFF, I GUESS TODAY I'M JUST GOING TO TALK ABOUT BEHAVIOR AND DESIGN. I THINK FOLKS SEE WHERE WE'RE AT WITH TRAFFIC. IT COMES UP A LOT. I KNOW I SPEAK TO IT A LOT. I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE COMMENTED ON IT. IT'S A BIG FRUSTRATION. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY WAY TO MAYBE DO A TRAFFIC SPECIFIC TOWN HALL THAT WE CAN GET SOME OF THE REPRESENTATIVES OF STREETS AND MAYBE AIDAN, I THINK AIDAN IN PARTICULAR, WE HAVE A LOT OF WALLS THAT WE COME UP AGAINST WITH THEM WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CONSIDERATIONS OF SPEED LIMITS, TRAFFIC SIGNALING, ANYTHING LIKE THAT, ANY INDICATION AND INFORMATION SESSION WITH THAT BECAUSE I THINK WE ALSO NEED TO GET TO A POINT WHERE WE HEAR FROM ONE ANOTHER AS FAR AS MYSELF BEING, I GUESS, IDENTIFIABLE AS A PEDESTRIAN AND CYCLIST AND THEN WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER MOST PEOPLE BEING MOTOR VEHICLES OR PEOPLE IN VEHICLES. I THINK BEHAVIOR AND DESIGN IS TOUGH BECAUSE WHEN WE COME AND WE ASK FOR DESIGN HELP, IT'S BECAUSE WE'RE A VULNERABLE POPULATION AND WE TALK A LOT ABOUT, AND I'VE HEARD IT FROM FIRST RESPONDERS TALKING ABOUT ALL ROAD USERS. ALL ROAD USERS NEED TO BE SAFE, ALL ROAD USERS NEED TO HAVE ACCESSIBILITY. I'M TALKING ABOUT VULNERABLE ROAD USERS BECAUSE PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS ARE MORE VULNERABLE THAN ANYBODY IN A MOTOR VEHICLE WHO'S ESSENTIALLY IN A CLIMATE CONTROLLED METAL BOX THAT CAN REACH VERY HIGH RATES OF SPEED AND CAN COMFORTABLY SIT IN TRAFFIC FOR AWHILE WITHOUT HAVING TOO MUCH A DETRIMENT TO THE PERSON AND YET WE ALWAYS PUT DETRIMENT ON THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PEDESTRIANS, WHO ARE CYCLISTS. THEY HAVE TO DIVERT, THEY DON'T GET TO TAKE STRAIGHT ROUTES TO THE PLACES THEY NEED TO GET TO. IT'S OFTENTIMES ONLY CARS GET TO GO PLACES FAST, ONLY CARS GET ROUNDABOUTS, ONLY CARS GET PARKING LOTS, ONLY CARS GET INFRASTRUCTURE WHEN PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS NEED IT SO MUCH MORE JUST TO EVEN GET TO A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD WITH A LOT OF VEHICLES AND YET WE CONTINUE TO [00:10:03] JUST HEAR LOUD ENGINES AND SEE BIGGER TRUCKS AND SEE MORE PARKING LOTS. I JUST WANT TO TAKE MORE CONSIDERATION FROM NOT ONLY THE COUNCIL BUT STAFF TO SAY THAT PROVIDING FOR PEDESTRIANS, PROVIDING FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN JUST VEHICLES IS NOT A FAILURE. WE SEE IT AS THIS FAILURE. WE'RE LIKE, HOW DO WE NOT GET AS MANY PARKING SPACES AS WE POSSIBLY COULD OUT OF THAT REAL ESTATE. THAT'S OKAY SOMETIMES, ESPECIALLY IN PLACES WHERE PEDESTRIANS ARE THE HEAVIEST AND PEDESTRIANS NEED THAT MUCH MORE PROTECTION AND THAT MUCH MORE ENCOURAGEMENT TO STAY DOWNTOWN, TO STAY IN PLACES NEAR PARKS, TO STAY IN PLACES WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE GATHER, THAT'S JUST BETTER FOR EVERYONE, NOT JUST PEOPLE IN CARS. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. MOVING DOWN TO ITEM NUMBER 5, [5. Review of Draft Agenda for the September 19, 2023 City Council Meeting Citizens wishing to speak on agenda items not specifically called out by the City Council may submit a speaker card for their items of interest to the recording clerk.] REVIEW OF THE DRAFT AGENDA FOR SEPTEMBER 19TH. HOPEFULLY COUNCIL HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK THROUGH THAT AGENDA. DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? SEEING NONE, I'M GOING TO MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER 6, CITY MANAGER REPORT. [6. City Manager Report Information Only] >> THANK YOU, MAYOR, COUNCIL. YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ONE OF THESE REPORTS SINCE THE END OF JUNE. OVER THE SUMMER, I THINK COUNCIL DID RECEIVE SOME UPDATES FROM OUR VARIOUS DIVISIONS AND HOPEFULLY THOSE WERE INFORMATIVE. SO WE'LL GET BACK INTO THE ROUTINE HERE. AS WE TYPICALLY DO, WE GIVE YOU SOME UPDATES OF THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENES AND WE INVITE A COUPLE OF OUR DIVISIONS TO GIVE THEIR UPDATES AS WELL. TODAY, WE WILL BE HEARING FROM COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, ALSO A SUMMER UPDATE FROM INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY AND THE AUGUST UPDATE FROM PROSE. JUST TOUCHING RANDOMLY ON SOME ITEMS IN MY REPORT AND THANK YOU TO ALL OF THOSE WHO HELPED ASSEMBLE THE INFORMATION IN FRONT OF YOU, WITH WATER SERVICES, WE HAVE SOME INTERESTING TIDBITS. WE USUALLY GET UPDATES FROM WATER SERVICES, SO THIS IS STUFF HAPPENING BETWEEN THOSE UPDATES. BUT THE 2024 WATER RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT ACT, OUR CITY HAS RECEIVED AN INVITATION FROM SENATORS KELLY AND SINEMA TO SUBMIT PROJECT REQUESTS. WE ARE DOING SO IN THE INTEREST OF PURSUING ADVANCED WASTEWATER TREATMENT AND THAT IS INFRASTRUCTURE IN WATER RESOURCE RESILIENCY FOR ABOUT $4.8 MILLION. STAY TUNED ON THAT. THIS, LIKE MANY OF THESE REQUESTS, IS SUBJECT TO A TIGHT TIMELINE, SO WE DO WHAT WE CAN TO BRING THAT TO YOUR ATTENTION. BUT THIS WILL BE A VERY EXCITING PURSUIT BY THE CITY AND ONE THAT YOU'LL HEAR MORE ABOUT. STAY TUNED ON THAT. ADVANCED WATER PURIFICATION TECHNICAL ADVISORY GROUP, THAT'S A MOUTHFUL. COUNCIL'S AWARE NOW THAT WE ARE WORKING ON A DRAFT IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE CITY OF PHOENIX AND THE CITY OF SCOTTSDALE TOWARD A LETTER TO PROVIDE COMMENTS ON SOME OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS WITH RESPECT TO ADVANCED WATER PURIFICATION AND THE ADVISORY GROUP, SO STAY TUNED ON THAT. YOU WILL BE SEEING A COPY OF THIS. IT'S CURRENTLY IN THE WORKS. I'M HAPPY TO REPORT THAT ED SHANK WITH STORMWATER AND I MET WITH OUR WATERSHED ALLIANCE FOR THE RIO DE FLAG. THAT'S NOT AN OFFICIAL GROUP YET. THEY ARE WANTING TO BECOME AN OFFICIAL GROUP RECOGNIZED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. THIS MATTER WILL GO BEFORE THE WATER COMMISSION AND THEN FIND ITS WAY TO THE DAIS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. WE'RE WORKING OUT SOME LANGUAGE WITHIN THE FORMATIVE DOCUMENTS FOR THIS GROUP. THEY WILL BE UNDER THE ACRONYM OF WARF, THAT'S WATER ALLIANCE FOR RIO DE FLAG, WARF, COMING YOUR WAY. IT WAS A VERY PRODUCTIVE MEETING AND THE WHEELS ARE IN MOTION ON THAT. I WANT TO RECOGNIZE A FEW WITHIN OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT, SOME PERSONNEL CHANGES OVER THE SUMMER. I THINK COUNCIL MAY BE AWARE OF THIS ALREADY, BUT I'LL RESTATE IT. CAPTAIN SETH GREGOR, I HOPE I'M GETTING THAT CORRECT, GREGOR, HAS BEEN NEWLY ASSIGNED TO THE CARE UNIT, THE CAPTAIN POSITION. WE'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT THAT. MARK ADAMS WHO YOU MET RECENTLY, I THINK HE PRESENTED TO YOU JUST RECENTLY, JOINED THE TEAM AS OUR NEW WILDLAND COMMUNITY RISK REDUCTION SPECIALIST AND CASEY GONZALEZ WAS PROMOTED TO FIRE CAPTAIN. MOVING ON WITH OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT, [00:15:05] MANY OF US, MAYOR, YOU WERE THERE, THANK YOU, WE ATTENDED THE HIGH COUNTRY TRAINING ACADEMY GRADUATION FOR CLASS 2. THIS IS THE SECOND GRADUATING CLASS FROM OUR HIGH COUNTRY TRAINING ACADEMY. IT WAS WONDERFUL. IT WAS WELL ATTENDED, OF COURSE, AT THE HOST VENUE OF, ALMOST SLIPPED, DIDN'T QUITE, COCONINO COMMUNITY COLLEGE, AND IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE I'VE SAID COLORADO. THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN TOO OFTEN. IT WAS WELL ATTENDED AND WE HAD A HUGE GRADUATING CLASS, MANY OF WHOM WILL BE PARTICIPATING IN RPD, AS WELL AS THE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE, THE NAUPD, AND THE WHITE MOUNTAIN APACHE TRIBAL POLICE, AS WELL AS YAVAPAI COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE. THIS IS JUST PROVING TO BE A TREMENDOUS SUCCESS AND WE ARE ALREADY GETTING READY FOR THE NEXT CLASS, SO STAY TUNED ON THAT. SOLID WASTE. JUST A LITTLE PLUG ON SOMETHING WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO GIVE A LOT OF ATTENTION TO, WE CONTINUE TO SEE SOME BAGGED RECYCLABLES INCLUDING PLASTIC BAGS AND STYROFOAM CONTAMINANTS AND SO FORTH IN OUR RECYCLING STREAM. WE REALLY NEED TO UP OUR GAME AS A COMMUNITY ON THAT. WE HAVE A VIDEO ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE AND WE WILL CONTINUE SOME VERY AGGRESSIVE OUTREACH AS WE TRY TO IMPROVE OUR SOLID WASTE DIVERSION AND REDUCE OUR CONTAMINANTS WITHIN THE RECYCLABLE STREAM. RANDOMLY HERE, THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL CREW INSTALLED THE SPEED SIGN ON LINDA VISTA, ELECTRONIC SPEED SIGN. JUST CHECKING WITH OUR CITY CLERK ON THAT, SHE'S AWARE OF IT. RURAL TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY COUNCIL, OUR STAFF ARE WORKING WITH METRO PLAN TO SUBMIT A FUNDING REQUEST AS PART OF THE BILL THAT WILL BE PUT FORWARD BY THE RURAL TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY COUNCIL, RTAC. THIS GOES TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND IT WILL BE IN FRONT OF THEM IN THE UPCOMING SESSION. WE'RE LOOKING TO JOINTLY PURSUE A SIGNIFICANT ALLOCATION, $15 MILLION I BELIEVE, FOR THE LONE TREE CORRIDOR AND RELATED IMPROVEMENTS. STAY TUNED ON THAT VERY IMPORTANT PURSUIT. I THINK I'LL END IT WITH THAT, UNLESS YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF ME ON THIS REPORT AND WE'LL LET OUR DIVISION HEADS, I THINK WE'LL START WITH COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, GIVE YOU THEIR QUICK UPDATES. ANY QUESTIONS? >> ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS, COUNCIL? NO. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. WE HAVE SOMEBODY QUEUED UP TO GIVE US AN UPDATE. >> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. I'M MICHELLE MCNULTY, PLANNING DIRECTOR. I'M FILLING IN FOR DAN FOLKE, WHO'S UNFORTUNATELY UNDER THE WEATHER. FIRST, I JUST WANT TO GIVE A BIG WELCOME TO ALL OF OUR NEW STAFF IN COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. THERE'S A LONG LIST IN OUR MORE DETAILED REPORT. WE'RE VERY HAPPY TO HAVE THEM ONBOARD. IT WAS A VERY BUSY CONSTRUCTION SEASON, AND WE MANAGED THROUGH A NUMBER OF KEY VACANCIES IN BOTH THE PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND BUILDING SAFETY. A SPECIAL BIG THANK YOU TO ALAXANDRA PUCCIARELLI, TORI MARTIN, DEE WILLIAMS, JOHN CROCKETT, RICK STANIONIS, AND AMY HAGEN FOR ALL THEIR EXTRA TIME THAT THEY WORKED TO GET US THROUGH THAT TIME. I ALSO WANT TO NOTE THAT TORI MARTIN WAS RECENTLY PROMOTED FROM OUR CD ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT TO OUR DEVELOPMENT SERVICES MANAGER. JUST TO UNDERSCORE HOW BUSY OF A SEASON IT HAS BEEN, THE PERMIT AND INSPECTION ACTIVITY REMAINS REALLY HIGH. WE HAD 1,386 PERMITS ISSUED THROUGH JULY. THAT'S COMPARED TO 1,303 PERMITS IN ALL OF 2022. FROM A VALUATION STANDPOINT, AGAIN THROUGH JULY, WE ARE UP 31 MILLION FROM 2022 TOTAL. THE REGIONAL PLAN WORK CONTINUES TO MOVE FORWARD. THIS SPRING, COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING COMPLETED 13 SCENARIO PLANNING WORKSHOPS. WE'VE GOT A LOT OF INFORMATION FROM VARIOUS GROUPS THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY. THE TEAM IS WORKING ON ALTERNATIVE SCENARIOS FOR GROWTH THAT WILL BE DISCUSSED WITH THE PUBLIC THIS FALL. PLANNING, HOUSING, AND SUSTAINABILITY WITH ALL OF OUR PARTNERS AND THE CONSULTANT TEAM ARE GETTING A GREAT START TO THE LAND AVAILABILITY, SUITABILITY, AND CODE ANALYSIS PROJECT. WE ARE ON THE SCHEDULE TO GIVE YOU A MORE DETAILED UPDATE OCTOBER 31ST. IN THE MEANTIME, OUR ZONING CODE MANAGER IS WORKING ON SEVERAL SMALL ZONING CODE CHANGES. THEY'RE SMALL, BUT THEY HAVE BIG IMPACTS, NOTABLY TO OUR PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT [00:20:01] AND MANUFACTURED HOUSING LOT DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS. THERE'S A LONGER LIST IN YOUR PACKET. HOUSING GAVE A PRESENTATION LAST WEEK ON A LOT OF THE HARD WORK THEY CONTINUE TO DO. BUT IN ADDITION TO THE VARIOUS PROGRAMS AND HOUSING PLAN IMPLEMENTATION STRATEGIES THAT THEY'RE WORKING ON, THEY DID TAKE THE TIME TO PARTICIPATE IN THE ARIZONA HOUSING FORUM IN AUGUST DOWN IN TUCSON. SARAH DARR, OUR HOUSING DIRECTOR, PRESENTED ON A PANEL WITH HOUSING DIRECTORS FROM PHOENIX, TUCSON, AND GLENDALE TO SHARE THE SUCCESSES AND ADVICE IN CREATING AND SUSTAINING AFFORDABLE HOUSING. I HAVE TO NOTE THAT MAYOR DAGGETT RECEIVED THE HOUSING HERO AWARD AT THAT EVENT FOR HER DEDICATION TO HOUSING IN FLAGSTAFF. CONGRATULATIONS. THERE WAS ALSO GREAT PARTICIPATION BY CITY STAFF AT THE ARIZONA AMERICAN PLANNING ASSOCIATION STATE PLANNING CONFERENCE LAST WEEK. NICOLE ANTONOPOULOS, CHRISTINA RUBALCAVA, TIFFANY ANTOL, JORDAN HOLLINGER, DAN FOLKE, AND MYSELF ALL PARTICIPATED IN VARIOUS PANEL DISCUSSIONS ON A WIDE RANGE OF TOPICS. IT'S REALLY CLEAR THAT OUR PEERS AROUND THE STATE ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN WHAT WE'RE DOING UP HERE. ALSO, AT THE CONFERENCE, FLAGSTAFF HAD SOME BIG WINS. HOUSING RECEIVED THE BEST MASTER-SPECIFIC PLAN HONORABLE MENTION FOR THEIR TENURE HOUSING PLAN, AND THE CITIZEN PLANNER AWARD WENT TO DEVONNA MCLAUGHLIN FOR HER SERVICE ON THE HOUSING COMMISSION AND HER WORK ON HOUSING SOLUTIONS OF THE NORTH. CONGRATULATIONS TO HOUSING AND DEVONNA FOR THOSE GREAT ACHIEVEMENTS. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. >> COUNCIL, ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, MICHELLE. THEN I THINK WE HAVE CJ ONLINE WHO'S GOING TO GIVE US SOME QUICK UPDATES ON INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY HOPEFULLY. THANK YOU, CJ. >> YES. GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. CJ PERRY, I'M YOUR DIVISION DIRECTOR FOR THE BEST DIVISION IN THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF; THAT IS THE IT DEPARTMENT. JUST WANTED TO SHARE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT OUR UPDATES. LET ME PULL THAT UP ON THE SCREEN REAL QUICK. WE DO AN UPDATE FOR THE ENTIRE QUARTER. FOR THE SUMMER, WE FIRST START OFF WITH SOME TIPS AND TRICKS. SOMETHING THAT WE LIKE TO DO AS PART OF OUR MISSION IS OUR PURPOSE IS TO PROVIDE THE SECURITY TOOLS TO MAKE YOUR JOB EASIER TOMORROW THAN IT WAS TODAY, AND SOME OF THAT IS TRAINING STAFF ON NEW AND UPCOMING TECHNOLOGIES. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S NEW AND UPCOMING IS A LOT OF THIS AI STUFF THAT PEOPLE KEEP HEARING ABOUT; CHATGPT AND OTHER SIMILAR TECHNOLOGIES. THIS IS JUST SOME LITTLE TIPS ON HOW TO UTILIZE AI AS PART OF DAY-TO-DAY WORK. I WANTED TO GIVE A BIG SHOUT-OUT TO TRACE WARD AND HIS TEAM, WHO ARE REALLY PLOWING THE WAY AS FAR AS AI AND UTILIZING SOME OF THESE TOOLS. WE'VE BEEN WORKING VERY CLOSELY WITH THEM ON HOW CAN WE INCORPORATE SOME OF THESE NEW TECHNOLOGIES INTO OUR ORGANIZATION. SOME GREAT INFORMATION THERE. WE ALSO LIKE TO SPOTLIGHT SOME OF OUR DIFFERENT TEAMS. IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IT'S OUR HELP DESK PROGRAM. MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED WITH MANY OF THESE STAFF AND WE ARE SO GRATEFUL FOR THEM. THEY'RE OUR FRONT LINE, THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE HELPING ALL OF OUR STAFF AND EVERYONE WITHIN TEAM FLAGSTAFF WHEN THEY'RE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THEIR COMPUTERS. YOU CAN GET TO KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THEM AS WELL. AS FAR AS SOME MAJOR PROJECT UPDATES, REALLY EXCITED, WE JUST COMPLETED AN RFI FOR INFORMATION TO BRING FIBER TO FLAGSTAFF. WE'VE GOT A LOT OF RESPONDENTS, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF GREAT INFORMATION. THERE ARE SEVERAL COMPANIES THAT ARE EXTREMELY INTERESTED IN COMING TO FLAGSTAFF AND BRINGING FASTER BROADBAND, BRINGING FIBER, AND NEW TECHNOLOGY TO OUR COMMUNITY. OUR NEXT STEP IS, WE'RE WORKING WITH OUR PROCUREMENT TEAM ON PROBABLY AN RFP IN ORDER TO REALLY GIVE A CONTRACT AND GET ONE OF THESE COMPANIES TO START BUILDING OR MAYBE MULTIPLE COMPANIES. BUT WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THAT. STAY TUNED FOR THAT. WE DO HIGHLIGHT SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WE STRUGGLE WITH AS WELL BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY THAT WE GET BETTER IS BY CALLING THEM OUT. THIS PARTICULAR QUARTER, WE HAD A LOT OF ISSUES WITH OUR DISPATCH SYSTEM. IT'S A 30-YEAR-OLD SYSTEM. IT WAS DEVELOPED ABOUT 30 YEARS AGO, AND IT'S DEFINITELY STARTING TO SHOW A LITTLE BIT OF ITS AGE. WE ARE WORKING ON SOME LONG-TERM PLANNING ON HOW WE'RE GOING TO MITIGATE THESE ISSUES AND COME UP WITH BETTER SYSTEMS GOING FORWARD. STAY TUNED FOR THAT. I WILL LET YOU ALL READ AS WE GO BEYOND THAT, BUT WE HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT PROGRAMS, PARTICULARLY I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT OUR NEW STAFF MEMBER, ALEX STEVENSON. HE'S HELPING OUT WITH PUBLIC SAFETY AS WELL. I REALLY WANTED TO WELCOME HIM ON BOARD, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND PROJECTS THAT WE'RE WORKING [00:25:02] ON THROUGHOUT ALL OF OUR PROGRAMS. THAT'S ALL I HAD. >> THANK YOU, CJ. I'D JUST LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT, AND I APPRECIATE YOU POINTING OUT THE PROBLEMS THAT IT FACED IN THIS QUARTER. I'M SURE OTHERS ARE AS WELL VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE PROBLEMS THAT DISPATCH HAS ENCOUNTERED AND LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUING UPDATES ON HOW WE ARE ADDRESSING THAT PROBLEM. >> ABSOLUTELY. WE'VE BEEN WORKING THROUGH A LOT OF THEM. OUR TEAM HAS BEEN WORKING DILIGENTLY TO SOLVE A LOT OF THE ISSUES WE'VE HAVE. WE'VE ACTUALLY MADE SOME PROGRESS JUST IN THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS. BUT WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT WHAT THOSE LONG-TERM SOLUTIONS LOOK LIKE AND I'LL BE HAPPY TO BRING UPDATES TO COUNSEL AS WE TALK ABOUT THAT STRATEGY, WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE GOING THROUGH A STRATEGIC PLANNING WORKSHOP NEXT MONTH AS WELL AND THIS WILL BE A BIG TOPIC AS PART OF THAT STRATEGIC PLANNING WORKSHOP. >> THANK YOU. ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS, COUNCIL? THANK YOU, CJ. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, CJ. FOR THE RECORD, I DO NOT USE AI WHEN I'M PUTTING TOGETHER MY MANAGER'S REPORTS, BUT I THINK OUR CITY CLERK LOOKS FORWARD TO THE DAY WHEN THAT IS THE CASE. WE HAVE ONE MORE REPORT FOR YOU AND THAT'S THE PROS UPDATE, AND I BELIEVE REBECCA IS WITH US. >> I AM. GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. REBECCA SAYERS, PROSE DIRECTOR. FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT DON'T KNOW, PROSE STANDS FOR PARKS, RECREATION, OPEN SPACE, AND EVENTS. CJ, I WILL ARM WRESTLE YOU ARE RACE YOU AROUND BUFFALO PARK TOMORROW ABOUT BEST DIVISION. WE TOO HAVE SOME NEW STUFF THAT WE WANT TO HIGHLIGHT. HERE IS ANDREW, HE'S OUR NEW COORDINATOR OVER AT THE HALOGENS AND RECREATION CENTER. THIS IS A GREAT STORY BECAUSE ANDREW HAS WORKED WITH US AS A TEMPORARY EMPLOYEE FOR SEVERAL YEARS AND IS NOW THE FULL-TIME BENEFITED PERMANENT COORDINATOR, AND WE'RE EXCITED TO HAVE HIM ON BOARD IN THAT CAPACITY. WE ARE ALSO GETTING READY TO INTERVIEW FOR FLAGSTAFF VERY FIRST, AS FAR AS WE KNOW. PARK RANGER POSITION, WE HAD A HUGE INTEREST FROM ACROSS THE STATE, ESPECIALLY, WE HAD OVER 30 APPLICANTS AND I BELIEVE WE'RE DOING SIX OR SEVEN INTERVIEWS ON FRIDAY. THIS IS EXCITING FOR US. IT'S A SHIFT IN SOME OPERATIONS AND WE WILL BE SURE TO HIGHLIGHT THAT PROGRAM WHEN WE HAVE THAT NEW INDIVIDUAL ONBOARD. TRAIL COUNTS ARE ALWAYS POPULAR. I WON'T GO INTO THEM. THERE'S NOTHING HUGELY DIFFERENT HERE FROM WHAT YOU'VE SEEN. MARS HILL AND ROUTE 66 TRIALS CONTINUE TO BE VERY POPULAR. THE ONE PROJECT I REALLY WANT TO HIGHLIGHT, AND YOU'VE HEARD ME TALK ABOUT THIS A LOT, [LAUGHTER] BUT THE BUFFALO PARK ACCESSIBILITY PROJECT IS FINALLY COMPLETE. RIGHT NOW, OUR AMY HAGEN WITH AN I AND OUR ASSISTANT PARKS AND RECREATION DIRECTOR IS OUT THERE RIGHT NOW TOURING WITH OUR STATE PARK PARTNERS WHO HELPED FUND THIS PROJECT. WE ARE HAVING A BROWN BAG, COME OUT AND CHECK IT OUT LUNCH TOMORROW. YOU NEED TO BRING YOUR OWN FOOD. WE DON'T HAVE THAT MONEY, BUT WE DO INVITE EVERYONE OUT BETWEEN 11:00 AND 1:00 TO WALK AROUND WITH US. WHAT YOU'RE SEEING HERE ARE NEW, FULLY ACCESSIBLE PARKING SPACES. THE REST OF THE PARKING LOT IS STILL THIS COMPACTED AGGREGATE, BUT WE WERE ABLE TO INSTALL THESE CONCRETE, ACCESSIBLE SPACES AND NEW WALKWAYS LEADING INTO THE PARK. THEN WE HAVE A NEW TRIAL SERVICE THAT IS MORE ACCESSIBLE, AS WELL AS IMPROVED SIGNAGE THAT NOTES THE ACCESSIBILITY OF THE TWO-MILE LOOP. PRETTY EXCITING PROJECT FOR US. THE FIRST GRANT PROJECT THAT PARKS HAS HAD IN MANY YEARS AND WE'RE EXCITED TO FINALLY PUNCH THIS ONE OUT. IN ADDITION, YOU MAY HAVE SEEN SOME NEW RESTROOMS SWINGING INTO PLACE OVER A THORPE PARK NEAR THE RAMADA. WE'RE JUST WORKING ON A FEW FOLLOW-UP ITEMS WITH THAT AND HOPEFULLY, THEY'LL BE OPEN WITHIN THE NEXT MONTH. WE DO NEED TO POUR SOME NEW SIDEWALKS THAT ARE ADA ACCESSIBLE UP TO THOSE RESTROOMS AND THAT'S THE LAST PIECE THAT WE'RE WAITING ON, [00:30:04] BUT THOSE SHOULD BE OPEN SOON. TO THE EXCITEMENT OF MANY OF OUR USERS, WE'VE HEARD A LOT, ESPECIALLY THE TENNIS PLAYERS AND A LOT OF PARENTS USING THAT PLAYGROUND GOT A LOT OF EXCITEMENT THERE. HOW JENSEN RECREATION CENTER, MOVING ONTO RECREATION HERE, ENJOYED ITS END-OF-SUMMER BASH, BACK-TO-SCHOOL BASH, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, AND ALSO THEY ARE CELEBRATING THE SUCCESS OF THEIR HOSTING OF THE COMMUNITY GARDEN. THIS WAS A PILOT PROJECT AS THE ISABEL HOMES PROJECTS STARTED TAKING PLACE WHERE THE ISABEL COMMUNITY GARDEN IS. I WOULD SAY IT WAS A SUCCESS. WE'LL SEE HOW IT GOES IN THE FUTURE. OVER AT JAY LIVELY, FLAGSTAFF FIGURE SKATING CLUB HAD ITS BIG COMPETITION. FYHA IS OUR FLAGSHIP YOUTH HOCKEY ASSOCIATION. THEY'VE HAD A FEW TOURNAMENTS. OUR COUNTY MEAL PROGRAM OVER AT JOSIE MONTOYA. THEY HAD AN ANNUAL KICK-OUT. THEY DO THIS AROUND THE 4TH OF JULY EVERY YEAR, SO THAT'S ALWAYS FUN. THEY HANG OUT AT THE RAMADA AT THORPE PARK. WE JUST COMPLETED OUR ANNUAL ANNIVERSARY MEMBERSHIP DRIVE AT THE AQUA PLEX AND WE'LL HAVE SOME OF THOSE RESULTS FOR YOU IN OUR NEXT NEWSLETTER. THANK YOU SO MUCH COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS, FOR JOINING US ON TOURS OF ALL OF OUR FACILITIES AND OUR OPEN SPACES IN OUR PARKS. WE HAD A GREAT TIME WITH YOU. WE WELCOME EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU TO COME OUT AND SPEND THE DAY WITH US. I THINK YOU'VE HEARD FROM COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS THAT IT'S A DAY, WELL-SPENT. IT'S NOT JUST FUN BECAUSE YOU'RE OUTSIDE AND YOU'RE WITH US BECAUSE THAT'S A GIVEN, BUT WE'LL ALSO TEACH YOU A LOT TOO, AND YOU'LL GET THE INS AND OUTS OF OUR OPERATIONS AND OUR PLANS FOR THE FUTURE. OF COURSE, YOU'LL BE HEARING MORE FROM US IN THE COMING MONTHS ABOUT THAT AS WELL. OPEN SPACE ALSO HAS BEEN HOSTING WEDNESDAYS [INAUDIBLE]. THEY DO THIS AT A VARIETY OF LOCATIONS, BUT THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO TRY TO KEEP A HANDLE ON THE INVASIVE WEED PROBLEM HERE, IN OUR PROPERTIES, AND IN FLAGSTAFF. FINALLY, WE ARE OPEN RIGHT NOW FOR ADULT VOLLEYBALL, TRIED TO SAY THAT FAST. REGISTRATION IS OPEN. IF YOU PULL UP THIS DOCUMENT WHICH I EMAILED, IT'S ON OUR WEBSITE. YOU CAN CLICK HERE TO REGISTER. THESE ARE LIVE LINKS. WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU IN OUR NEXT WEEK, AND, OF COURSE, WE HAVE LOTS OF EVENTS THAT ARE STILL GOING ON. PROBABLY, THE BIGGEST HIGHLIGHT FOR THIS COMING MONTH IS THE ONE I JUST COVERED UP SOMEHOW. THE STAR PARTY AT BUFFALO PARK AND FESTIVAL OF SCIENCE ARE BOTH HAPPENING IN SEPTEMBER. THOSE ARE SOME OF OUR BIG EVENTS. CORNUCOPIA IS ALSO COMING BACK THIS YEAR OVER THORPE PARK. THOSE ARE ALL EXCITING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'D BE HAPPY TO TAKE THEM. >> ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, COUNCIL? I LIKE YOUR TIGHTS, COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS. [LAUGHTER] >> THANKS, REBECCA. >> THANK YOU, REBECCA. MAYOR, COUNCIL, THAT CONCLUDES MY REPORT UNLESS YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? >> THANK YOU, GREG. I GOT TO GET BACK TO THE OTHER PAGE ON OUR AGENDA. NEXT STEP ITEM NUMBER 7, [7. Roundabout Workshop and Discussion Facilitate council discussion concerning modern roundabout design, operational considerations and public outreach. ] ROUNDABOUT WORKSHOP AND DISCUSSION. [NOISE] >> GOOD AFTERNOON, HONORABLE MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBERS. MY NAME IS JEREMY TIGETA. I'M A PROJECT MANAGER IN THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS SECTION HERE IN THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF. IT'S MY PLEASURE TO PRESENT TO YOU THIS EVENING'S ROUNDABOUT WORKSHOP AND DISCUSSION ON BEHALF OF CITY ENGINEERING DIVISION. AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, OVER THE PAST NUMBER OF YEARS, WE'VE BUILT A NUMBER OF ROUNDABOUTS THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF, BOTH WHETHER IT WAS A DOT OR THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF. WE'VE GOT A ROUNDABOUT PROJECT UNDER CONSTRUCTION RIGHT NOW WITH AS PART OF THE BEULAH UNIVERSITY REALIGNMENT PROJECT. WE'VE GOT SEVERAL ROUNDABOUTS UPCOMING IN THE PIPELINE. WE'VE GOT THE FOURTH LOCKET CEDAR ROUNDABOUT SLATED FOR CONSTRUCTION NEXT YEAR, [00:35:03] AND WILL BE BEFORE YOU LATER IN OCTOBER TO PRESENT AN UPDATE ON THE BUTLER FOURTH IMPROVEMENTS PROJECT, WHICH ALSO INCLUDES A STAFF-PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE AS A ROUNDABOUT. WITH THAT, TONIGHT WE HAVE BEEN HOLDING A STAFF AND STAKEHOLDER TRAINING TWO-DAY WORKSHOP TO, I GUESS, GET STAFF UP TO SPEED. WE'VE INVITED A NUMBER OF EXTERNAL STAKEHOLDERS TO WORK THROUGH THE PROCESS, ALL THE DESIGN INTRICACIES THAT GO INTO MAKING A GOOD ROUNDABOUT ENSURING THAT WE'VE GOT THE GOOD FACILITIES FOR ALL USERS, INCLUDING THE BEST FACILITIES THAT WE CAN PROVIDE FOR OUR MOST VULNERABLE USERS OF OUR TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE. WITH THAT, OUR INSTRUCTOR OR OUR PRESENTER TONIGHT IS MARK JOHNSON WITH EMPTY J AND ENGINEERING. HE'S GOT OVER 30 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE BOTH ON THE PUBLIC SIDE AND ALSO WORKING AS A PRIVATE CONSULTANT, HAS DESIGNED OR PEER-REVIEWED ALMOST 1,000 ROUNDABOUTS, SERVES ON MULTIPLE DIFFERENT COMMITTEES WITH THE TRANSPORTATION RESEARCH BOARD OR THE INTERNATIONAL TRANSPORTATION ENGINEERS GROUP ON THEIR COMMITTEES THAT FORM GUIDELINES FOR HOW ROUNDABOUTS SHOULD BE DESIGNED AND HAS PUBLISHED NUMEROUS PAPERS ON THIS. AS HE DESCRIBED TO US THIS MORNING, HIS DEPTH OF KNOWLEDGE OR BREADTH OF KNOWLEDGE ACROSS ENGINEERING IS RELATIVELY NARROW. IT'S EXTREMELY FOCUSED ON ROUNDABOUTS, BUT THE DEPTH OF THAT KNOWLEDGE ON ROUNDABOUTS IS VERY DEEP. WE'RE EXCITED TO HAVE HIM HERE TODAY AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE CONVERSATION. WITH THAT, WELCOME MARK. >> THANK YOU. I'M GOING TO THAT DEPTH ANALYSIS. I'M JUST HERE TO BORE YOU GUYS TO TEARS. I LIKE TO JOKE, ANYWAY. LET ME JUST RUN THROUGH THE PRESENTATION. DO YOU THINK, JEREMY? I GUESS THIS IS YOUR MEETING, COUNCILS. IF YOU WANT TO OPEN UP WITH QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, I HAVE SOME PREPARED MATERIALS THAT WALKS THROUGH, IT'S A ONE-ON-ONE. I'VE GOT A NUMBER OF SLIDES HERE THAT SPEAK TO A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT ISSUES THAT CAN MAYBE CONTROVERSIAL WITH ROUNDABOUTS. SUCH AS I LIKE TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ABOUT HOW OUR TALENT CAME TO BE. THE FACT THAT WE CAN PUT THEM IN DIFFERENT PLACES AND HOW THAT MIGHT WORK AND THEN TALK A LITTLE ABOUT SAFETY AND PEDS AND BIKES, ABOUT EMERGENCY RESPONSE AND TRUCKS AND HOW WE DEAL WITH THOSE, AND THEN SOME TRAFFIC PLANNING OPPORTUNITY TO HOW ROUNDABOUTS CAN REALLY AFFECT HOW WE TRAFFIC PLAN OUR ROADWAYS AND WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THAT TODAY WITH THE STAFF. THEN I HAVE JUST A COUPLE OF PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT CASE STUDIES AND SOME PROJECTS THAT WENT IN AND THE TYPICAL STRUGGLES WITH PUTTING NEW THINGS IN AND THEN HOW THOSE TURNED OUT. THAT'S THE OVERVIEW OF THE TOPICS AND IT'S MEANT TO GO QUICK AND I DON'T GET INTO TOO MUCH DETAIL, BUT I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK TO ISSUES THAT YOU'RE NOT INTERESTED IN. BUT IF YOU HAVE NOTHING SPECIFIC, I MIGHT JUST GO THROUGH THIS AND YOU GUYS ARE WELCOME TO JUMP IN AS YOU MAY LIKE. >> WHY DON'T WE DO THAT? WHY DON'T YOU GO AHEAD AND GO THROUGH THE PRESENTATION AND THEN WE CAN TAKE QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS AND WE MAY HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT AS WELL? >> SOUNDS GREAT. OVERVIEW OF ROUNDABOUTS, BENEFITS, OPPORTUNITIES, AND CHALLENGES. I'M SURE I'M LOOKING AT THE RIGHT SCREEN HERE. I JUST WENT THROUGH THE OUTLINE. I DON'T THINK I REALLY NEED TO DO THAT AGAIN. ROUNDABOUTS VERSUS SIGNALS. THIS IS AN OLD CARTOON FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE THAT I GOT A LONG TIME AGO. IT SPEAKS TO THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT ROUNDABOUTS PROVIDE IN TERMS OF CHANGING HOW WE DESIGN ROADS AND HOW WE LOOK AT TRAFFIC PLANNING. IN ESSENCE, WE CAN OFTEN DO MORE WITH LESS WITH ROUNDABOUTS. WE CAN OFTEN, I DON'T NECESSARILY NEED TO WIDEN ROAD WHEN WE USE ROUNDABOUTS VERSUS SIGNALS TO ACHIEVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE. THAT'S ONE SECTION OF THIS. BUT HOW YOU DECIDE THOSE THINGS, IT IS NOW KNOWN AS AN ALTERNATIVE ANALYSIS. IT'S BENEFITS AND COSTS. IT'S ACHIEVING COMMUNITY OBJECTIVES. A LOT CAN GO INTO THAT. JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE BACKGROUND OF ROUNDABOUTS. WHERE DID THEY COME FROM AND WHY ARE WE AS COMMUNITIES, AS ENGINEERING COMMUNITIES LOOKING AT THEM, SO A COUPLE OF BRIEF SLIDES. THE IMAGE ON THE LEFT THERE, THE ARC DE TRIOMPHE IN PARIS, FRANCE. IT'S AN OLD CIRCULAR LAND PLANNING CIRCLE [00:40:03] THAT WORKED GREAT WITH HORSES AND CHARIOTS AND NOT-SO-GREAT WITH ROUNDABOUTS. THE IMAGE ON THE RIGHT IS, WE BUILT ROTARIES AS THEY'RE REFERRED TO ON THE EAST COAST UP THROUGH THE EARLY '50S. THEN WE STOPPED BUILDING THEM. THEY WERE THE PRECURSOR TO THE MODERN INTERCHANGE ON RAMPS AND OFF RAMPS. BUT YOU SEE THE ROUNDABOUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT OLD LARGE CIRCLE THERE, THAT IS WHAT IS REFERRED TO AS A MODERN ROUNDABOUT. WHY IS IT THAT THAT IS A DIFFERENT SHAPE THAN THE OLD ONE? HOW DID WE KNOW TO DESIGN THAT DIFFERENTLY? REALLY, IT WAS BORN OUT OF THE UK. IN THE UK, THEY'D BEEN DOING ROUNDABOUTS REALLY FROM THE EARLY 1900S. WE STOPPED DOING THEM IN THE LATE '40S OR '50S. THEY KEPT RESEARCHING AND STUDYING THEM. THROUGH THE '60S AND '70S POST-WORLD WAR II BOOM, MORE POPULATION, MORE TRAFFIC, MORE CARS THAN A NATIONAL IMPERATIVE TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND THERE ARE LOTS OF DIFFERENT SIZES AND CIRCLES AND THEY DID A LOT OF RESEARCH LOOKING AT LOTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS. WE IN NORTH AMERICA AND THE US, WE BASICALLY BORROWED AND TRANSLATED THEIR RESEARCH, SCIENCE, AND ENGINEERING PRACTICE INTO US AND NORTH AMERICA PRACTICES. THEY'RE RELATIVELY NEW AS A TRANSPORTATION FACILITY. IN THE UK, IT WAS THE 1980S WHEN THEY PUBLISHED A LOT OF THEIR RESEARCH FROM OVER THE COUPLE OF DECADES THAT THEY WORKED ON IT. OTHER COUNTRIES STARTED DOING THEM. THEY FIRST WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND OTHER ENGLISH AREAS AND THEN OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES STARTED DOING THEM. REALLY THEY JUST STARTED POPPING UP IN THE US IN THE 1990S. ALL THINGS CONSIDERED RELATIVELY NEW, THEY HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT PLACES YOU CAN PUT THEM, WIDE VARIETY OF APPLICATIONS. WE CAN USE THEM WITH CULTURAL PUBLIC ART IN THE MIDDLE, YOU CAN PUT THEM IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS. YOU CAN DO AN URBAN REVITALIZATION. YOU CAN USE IT AS PART OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. THIS IS A COLLEGE CAMPUS IN PORTLAND, MAINE THAT'S TAKING OUT SOME SIGNALS AND REARRANGING SOME THINGS THERE TO TRY TO IMPROVE PERFORMANCE AND SAFETY FOR EVERYBODY. YOU CAN PUT THEM IN TRANSITIONAL SPEED APPLICATIONS. IT'S THE CONTEXTS AND FORMS OF DESIGN AND WHAT'S APPROPRIATE. THERE'S DIFFERENT DESIGN TECHNIQUES DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU'RE PUTTING THEM IN AND WHAT YOUR OBJECTIVES ARE AND INTERCHANGES AS WELL. BASICALLY, ANYWHERE YOU CAN PUT AN INTERSECTION, YOU CAN EVALUATE IT TO PUT A ROUNDABOUT. EVEN CORRIDORS. WE'RE STARTING TO PUT THEM IN CORRIDORS AND THE BENEFITS OF THAT CAN IMPROVE. WE CAN DO MORE WITH LESS, WE CAN ACHIEVE SIMILAR VEHICLE PERFORMANCE WITH THE SAME OR LESS LINEAGE FOR CARS WITH ROUNDABOUTS BECAUSE THEY OPERATE DIFFERENTLY. THAT CAN IMPROVE ACCESS AND SAFETY AS WELL. ON THE SAFETY SIDE OF THINGS, YOU DON'T GET THESE NICE [BACKGROUND]. THE TEA BONES ARE PROBLEMATIC AS A SAFETY MEASURE. THEY THEY CAN'T HAPPEN AT SIGNALS. BASICALLY THEY DON'T HAPPEN AT ROUNDABOUTS. THAT'S A BIG BENEFIT FOR SERIOUS INJURY CRASHES AND FATALITIES. A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND. YOU JUST HAVE LESS CONFLICT POINTS WITH ROUNDABOUTS WHEN YOU QUANTIFY THE CONFLICT POINTS. WITH THE SPEED REDUCTION THAT WE STRIVE FOR AND DESIGN, YOU JUST HAVE NATURAL INHERENT SAFETY BUILT-IN. IT'S LIKE A SAFETY BELT IN A WAY. IT JUST IMPROVED SAFETY OVERALL. THAT ACCIDENT SEVERITY GOES DOWN WITH THE SLOWER SPEEDS. ONE THING TO LOOK AT IS IT ALWAYS STOP WHERE NOBODY REALLY KNOWS HOW TO DRIVE MANY MORE AND YOU GO UP. YOU PULL UP AND EVERYONE TRIES TO FIGURE OUT WHO GOES FIRST AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR SOMEBODY AND THEY'RE NOT THAT EFFICIENT. YOU COULD RUN INTO SOME OF THE ROUNDABOUTS. IF A CIRCLE, YOU PUT A CENTRAL ISLAND, YOU GET FOUR SPLITTER ISLANDS, AND ACTUALLY, CARS CAN COME UP AND FOUR CARS CAN MOVE FORWARD SIMULTANEOUSLY. THAT IMPROVES ITS OPERATION AND ILLUSTRATES HOW THEY PERFORM MUCH DIFFERENTLY. PEDESTRIANS, BICYCLISTS, ADA ISSUES, IT'S BEEN A LONG ISSUE WITH ROUNDABOUTS AND ONE THAT WE STILL WORK ON TODAY. CONTINUING TO IMPROVE THIS ASPECT OF DESIGN AND IMPLEMENTATION. [00:45:03] THERE'S DIFFERENT TYPES OF CYCLISTS, THERE'S DIFFERENT NEEDS. IT'S A STRUGGLE WITH ALL OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AND IT CAN BE A CHALLENGE OR THROW NODES. BUT WE HAVE DESIGN TECHNIQUES, WE HAVE DESIGN ELEMENTS AND DESIGN FEATURES THAT WE CAN IMPLEMENT TO IMPROVE THIS AREA SUBSTANTIALLY AND MAKE IT COMFORTABLE FOR ALL MODES. A LOT OF RESEARCH HAS GONE ON IN THE US OVER THE LAST, REALLY ALMOST 20 YEARS NOW, AND IT HAS CONCLUDED INTO SOME REPORTS AND IT'S STARTING TO GAIN A LOT OF TRACTION. YOU SEE AN IMAGE HERE OF A RAISED CROSSING. A LOT OF IT IS HOW YOU ADDRESS THE CROSSING AND THE DESIGN TO ENSURE SLOW VEHICLES SPEEDS AT THOSE CROSSINGS THROUGH GEOMETRIC ELEMENTS, BUT THEN ENHANCEMENTS LIKE RAISED CROSSINGS, THE MARKINGS, YOU CAN INCLUDE ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS SUCH AS PEDESTRIAN BEACONS AND RAPID FLASHING BEACONS TO FURTHER ENHANCE PEDESTRIAN COMFORT. A LOT OF THESE DESIGN ELEMENTS ARE AIMED AT VISUAL AWARENESS. CARS TO VEHICLES, VEHICLES TO PEDS, WAYFINDING, TRY TO MAKE IT AN INVITING ENVIRONMENT AND PROVIDE SAFETY AND COMFORT. FROM A PEDESTRIAN PERSPECTIVE, [NOISE] THANK YOU. THIS IS A ROUNDABOUT, THAT INTERSECTION THAT WAS CONVERTED TO A ROUNDABOUT FROM A SIGNAL. IT JUST ILLUSTRATES A SINGLE-LANE ROUNDABOUT, THE PEDESTRIAN CROSSING TO THE PEDESTRIAN REFUGE, DEALING WITH ONE DIRECTION OF TRAFFIC AT A TIME AND ONE STREAM OF TRAFFIC AT A TIME. IT TOOK JUST UNDER 20 SECONDS TO CROSS. PRE-ROUNDABOUT, THAT'S THE SAME INTERSECTION THAT THE PEDESTRIANS WAITING FOR THE SIGNAL PHASE TO CHANGE, AND THEY'RE WAITING ABOUT A MINUTE. FROM A PEDESTRIAN LEVEL OF SERVICE AND DELAY, ROUNDABOUTS CAN HAVE SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGES FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE. AGAIN, COMPARING A SIGNAL TO A ROUNDABOUT, THIS IS A RELATIVELY SMALL SIGNAL WITH A LEFT AND A RIGHT AND A THROUGH LANE AND A SINGLE, BUT IT HAS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 60 FEET OF CROSSING DISTANCE, WHICH IS MORE EXPOSURE. WHEREAS A SINGLE-LANE ROUNDABOUT, IN THIS CASE, WILL HAVE SHORTER DISTANCES THAT YOU DO ONE DIRECTION OF TRAFFIC AT A TIME, WHICH HAS BEEN PROVEN OVER AND OVER WITH RESEARCH OVER THE DECADES, BOTH IN NORTH AMERICA AND ACROSS THE GLOBE, TO BE VERY SAFE FOR PEDESTRIANS. THIS IS A SIMILAR ILLUSTRATION OF THERE'S A PEDESTRIAN, HARD TO SEE WHERE THAT YELLOW ARROW IS, THAT'S GOING TO PRESS THAT SIGNAL BUTTON AND WAIT FOR THE TIMING OF THE SIGNAL TO CHANGE TO MAKE THEIR WAY ACROSS THAT SEVEN-LANE URBAN ARTERIAL ROADWAY. THESE ARE HIGH-VOLUME INTERSECTIONS. THE IMAGE ON THE LEFT IS A ROUNDABOUT, AND IT'S ON MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY. THAT HAS BEEN A FOOTBALL SATURDAY SO THERE'S LOTS OF PEDS PARKING AND WALKING TO THE STADIUM. JUST GIVES YOU A FLAVOR OF HOW CARS AND PEDS INTERACT WITH ROUNDABOUTS VERSUS SIGNALS. PROBABLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST TAKEAWAYS HERE IS THE SPEEDS ALONG THAT SIGNALIZED ROADWAY ARE HIGH. IF A PED IS HIT, IT'S TYPICALLY NOT A GOOD RESULT. WITH SPEEDS BEING LOWER AT THE ROUNDABOUT, IT'S A MUCH BETTER SAFETY ENVIRONMENT FOR PEDESTRIANS. EVENTUALLY, THAT PED MAKES THEIR WAY ACROSS, A LITTLE TOUGH TO TELL HERE, BUT THERE THEY GO TO MAKE IT ACROSS. >> EXCUSE ME, I HAVE A QUESTION. APPROXIMATELY WHAT SPEED ARE THOSE CARS GOING IN THE ROUNDABOUT INTERSECTION? BECAUSE IT SEEMS QUITE HIGH. [BACKGROUND] [LAUGHTER] IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE CARS ARE REALLY STOPPING FOR THE PEDESTRIAN. >> I DON'T KNOW THE SPEEDS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. [00:50:03] I CAN ESTIMATE BASED ON LOOKING AT IT. BUT THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT USUALLY POPS OUT TO FOLKS IS THAT IT LOOKS AND FEELS UNCOMFORTABLE. THIS MORNING WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT, LOOK, THEY'RE PLAYING FROGGER, NO ONE IS STOPPING. WE SPENT PROBABLY TWO HOURS TALKING ABOUT THIS MORNING. BUT THIS VIDEO, IF WE LOOK AT IT AGAIN AND I'LL SHOW MAYBE ANOTHER VIDEO OR TWO, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S UNCOMFORTABLE. BUT THE REALITY IS BECAUSE THE CROSSING IS AT A CAR OR TWO BACK FROM A YELLOW LINE, THAT'S WHERE CARS ARE SLOWING AND THEY'RE GETTING SLOWER, WHAT WE FIND IN TRAFFIC ENGINEERING AND TRAFFIC RESEARCH IS, WHEN CARS ARE GOING SLOW, THEY'RE MORE APT TO YIELD TWO PEDS. IT BECOMES AN AREA WHERE IT'S EASY FOR A VEHICLE TO JUST YIELD TO THE PEDS AND THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF A DANCE THEREOF. WELL, ARE THEY GOING TO STOP FOR ME? THERE IS AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THE SAFETY STATISTICS BEAR OUT THAT BECAUSE PEDESTRIANS ARE ALSO INTERACTING WITH THE DRIVERS, IT IS SAFER AS OPPOSED TO JUST RELYING ON A SIGNAL HERE TO TELL THEM TO CROSS. THERE'S MORE ACTIVE DECISION-MAKING THERE ON BOTH FRONTS. THE SPEEDS CIRCULATING THERE, I'M GOING TO ESTIMATE ARE 18 MILES PER HOUR. THAT'S A GUESS BASED ON THE SIZE OF THAT ROUNDABOUT. YOU'LL SEE A VIDEO SHORTLY OF A ROUNDABOUT THAT IS SMALLER. CIRCULATING SPEEDS ARE LOWER. AGAIN, WE DO STRIVE FOR SLOWER SPEEDS. IT JUST ENHANCES EVERYTHING. IT MAKES IT BETTER FOR EVERYONE. IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION, IT'S ONE THAT COMES UP OFTEN. THANK YOU FOR THAT. THIS HAS SOME DRONE FOOTAGE. THIS IS A BUSY TWO-LANE ROUNDABOUT. THIS IS A SHARED-USE PATHWAY AND THESE KIDS ARE GOING EITHER DOWNTOWN OR TO THE DRUGSTORE. THESE ARE LIKE MIDDLE SCHOOL KIDS. WE CAN'T TELL FROM HERE. IT'S A LITTLE TOUGH TO SEE, BUT THERE'S A KID ON THE HANDLEBAR, THERE'S ANOTHER KID ON A SKATEBOARD. THEY'RE GOOFY KIDS. I WAS ON THE GROUND WHEN THESE GUYS WERE COMING ACROSS AND WE WERE SHOOTING THIS FOOTAGE. I PUT IT IN THERE. THESE ARE GOOFY KIDS. IT'S A LITTLE LIKE AS A PARENT, AT WHAT AGE ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH YOUR KIDS GOING ON THEIR OWN IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND CROSSING BUSY ROADS? YOU CAN LOOK AT THIS AND SOME CARS DIDN'T YIELD. WE'LL SPEAK TO SOME OF THE ISSUES ON HOW WE CAN IMPROVE THAT WITH ENHANCEMENTS, SIGNALIZATION, AND THAT KIND OF THING. BUT IT JUST ILLUSTRATES HOW THAT PED CROSSING, THERE'S A LOT OF ENGINEERING SCIENCE THAT GOES INTO IT. IT'S AT THE POINT WHERE CARS ARE SLOW ON APPROACH AND SLOWER EXITING AS WELL. IT'S EASIER. AS WE CAN GET THOSE SPEEDS DOWN, DRIVERS ARE MORE APT TO YIELD TO PEDS, IT'S EASIER TO HAVE THAT INTERACTION, AND THEN IT'S MUCH SAFER AS WELL. THIS A SMALLER ROUNDABOUT THAN THE ONE IN MICHIGAN, BUT VEHICLE SPEEDS ARE PROBABLY CLOSER TO 12, 15 MILES PER HOUR HERE. THE SPEED DIFFERENTIAL WITH THE CYCLIST IS THE CYCLING GROUP THAT'S GOING OUT FOR AN AFTERNOON RIDE, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THE DIFFERENTIAL IS ABOUT THE SAME FOR THOSE CYCLISTS AND THE CARS THERE. A PROJECT THAT IS IN SPRINGFIELD, OREGON. IT'S A BUS RAPID TRANSIT STOP IN AN EXISTING MEDIAN THAT WAS PUT IN THERE USING RECTANGULAR RAPID FLASHING BEACONS ACROSS THE CROSSING. YOU CAN SEE THAT IN THE IMAGE HERE. >> GO AHEAD. >> THANK YOU. CAN YOU GO BACK TO SLIDES WHERE YOU WERE SHOWING THE CYCLISTS? >> SURE, THIS ONE? >> I'M CURIOUS, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THERE'S A LOT OF ROOM FOR THEM AND THE VEHICLES. IS THAT THE STANDARD DESIGN OR HAVE WE LATELY ADVANCED TO GIVING A MORE DEDICATED AREA FOR CYCLISTS THAT ARE SHARING THE ROAD WITH THE CAR? >> TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, YOU'LL NOTICE THERE'S THERE'S ACTUALLY A SHARED USED PATHWAY ON THIS. IF WE'RE LOOKING NORTH, WHICH WE ARE, SO IT'D BE ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE ROAD. THERE'S ACTUALLY A 10-FOOT SHARED USE PATHWAY. THIS CYCLIST GROUP IS SELECTED TO STAY ON THE ROAD. I KNOW THIS AREA OF THE CITY, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A BIKE LANE ON THAT ROAD APPROACHING THIS ROUNDABOUT. [00:55:01] OFTEN, THERE MIGHT BE A BIKE LANE. TYPICALLY THERE IS. WE TYPICALLY DESIGNED FOR A CYCLIST TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO OFF IN ADVANCE THE ROUNDABOUT AND THEN PROCEED AROUND ON A SHARED USE PATHWAY OR A CYCLE TRACK, THOSE TYPES OF FACILITIES. OR THEY CAN SELECT TO MERGE WITH TRAFFIC AND ACT AS A VEHICLE, THAT'S WHAT WE TEACH CYCLING AT ANY INTERSECTION TO SIGNALIZE. THEN WE WANT THAT CYCLIST IN THAT CASE TO TAKE A LANE AS OPPOSED TO HOGGING A CAR. BUT THESE GUYS ARE WELL, THEIR INNER LANE AND THEY'VE TAKEN THE LANE. YES, WITH ADVANCEMENTS AND WITH CYCLE TRACK THAT ARE GOING ON ACROSS THE COUNTRY, ROUNDABOUTS ARE WELL SUITED TO INCORPORATE THAT INTO THEM. IT COMES DOWN TO A LITTLE BIT OF HOW WE DESIGN THE CROSSINGS AND THEN WHAT ARE WE CONNECTING TO ON THOSE CONNECTING ROADWAYS. WE USE GEOMETRICS TO SLOW CARS DOWN, AND THEN WE HAVE ENHANCEMENTS AS WELL THAT CAN HELP THINGS ALSO. IN SUMMARY, THE CYCLES TYPICALLY HAVE THE OPTION TO STAY ON THE ROAD. LET'S SAY YOU'RE A HIGHER-LEVEL CYCLISTS, YOU'RE TRYING TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B QUICKER, YOU MAY SELECT MORE CONFIDENT, OR YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO EXIT OFF ONTO A SHARED USE PATHWAY OR HIGHER CLASSIFICATION PATHWAY THAT'S DEDICATED TO PETS AND BIKES TYPE SITUATION. >> BUT AS WE DESIGN ROUNDABOUTS, WE CAN IMPLEMENT A DEDICATED SPACE FOR THE CYCLISTS ON THE ROAD, OR THE EXPANDED PAD WALKWAY TO HAVE A STRIPED PAD SILVER HERE. [OVERLAPPING] BECAUSE I SEE WHERE YOUR ARROW IS HERE, THAT CAR IS TRYING TO GET AROUND THE BICYCLIST, AND HE'S IN THE MIDDLE OF EVERYTHING JUST TO STAY AT A GOOD DISTANCE. THEN IF YOU TURN THAT ON, THEY'RE OUT IN THE MIDDLE THERE. IT JUST SEEMS AT A HIGH-RISK DESIGN THAT WAY. >> IT'S NOT A EXAMPLE IN THE SENSE THAT THIS ROADWAY HAS NO BIKE LANES ON IT. BUT IT REALLY WAS JUST MEANT TO ILLUSTRATE THE ROUNDABOUTS SLOWEST CARS DOWN. THAT SPEED DIFFERENTIAL BETWEEN THE CARS AND CYCLISTS IN THIS CASE IS PRETTY CLOSE, WHICH MAKES IT MORE COMFORTABLE AS A CYCLIST. THEN WHAT WE DO AND DESIGN, IS AS A CYCLIST APPROACHES THE ROUNDABOUT, WE GIVE THEM THE OPTION TO EXIT OFF, OR WE WANT THOSE CYCLISTS TO TAKE A LANE AND NOT HOG THE CURVE GOING THROUGH THE ROUNDABOUT. WE CAN USE CHERYL TO TRY ON THE PAVEMENT WHICH MAY HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF THAT TO FURTHER EDUCATE BOTH DRIVERS AND CYCLISTS THAT WE WANT THEM IN A LANE. >> WE HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION FROM COUNCIL MEMBER HOUSE. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR, AND I HOPE YOU CAN HEAR ME OKAY. I'M SORRY, I'M A BIT UNDER THE WEATHER. THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION SO FAR. I'M JUST CURIOUS, A LOT OF THE EXAMPLES THAT HAVE BEEN SHOWN RIGHT NOW SEEM TO BASICALLY BE DROPPING PEDESTRIANS INTO VEHICLE INFRASTRUCTURE, AND I KNOW THAT'S A VERY OVERSIMPLIFIED WAY OF PUTTING THAT. BUT IS THERE ANY RESEARCH OR PRECEDENTS FOR ROUND ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS, AT ITS HEART, MORE PEDESTRIAN-CENTRIC THAT STARTS FROM THE PLACE OF PEDESTRIAN NEEDS ON THE CROSSINGS AND ROADWAYS? >> I THINK THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS YES. AT THE END OF THE DAY THOUGH, AT THE INTERSECTION AT THE ROUNDABOUT, WE DO HAVE CROSSINGS. WE HAVE PEDESTRIAN CROSSINGS AT THE ENTRIES AND EXITS. THROUGH DESIGN AND PLANNING, YOU COULD MINIMIZE CROSSINGS THROUGH TUNNELS OR OVERPASSES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IN THE CONTEXT OF PLANNING FROM A PEDESTRIAN CIRCULATION PERSPECTIVE OR FROM A CYCLING INFRASTRUCTURE PERSPECTIVE, YES, YOU COULD START THERE AND THEN LOOK TO MERGE THE TWO TOGETHER IN A WAY THAT WORKS BEST FOR THE APPLICATION THAT YOU'RE WORKING ON. [01:00:03] DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION A LITTLE BIT? >> IT DOES, THANK YOU. I'LL SAVE ANY OTHER COMMENT AFTER PUBLIC COMMENT. THANKS. >> CONTINUING NOW A LITTLE BIT WITH JUST PET AND BIKE DESIGN, AND THIS PERHAPS GETS A LITTLE BIT TO THE COUNSELORS QUESTION. THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU CAN DO FROM A STANDARD FOUR-LANE ARTERIAL FROM THE '60S OR WHENEVER, AND THEY CONVERTED IT TO A ROUNDABOUT CORRIDOR. THEY WENT FROM FOUR LANES TO A TWO-LANE ROAD, ADDED PARKING, ADDED PEDESTRIAN FACILITATION, ADDED BIKE LANES. THE ROUNDABOUT HAPPENS TO BE PART OF THIS PLAN, PREDOMINANTLY BECAUSE WE CAN PROCESS VEHICLES EASIER, BETTER, IN THIS CASE, A SINGLE LANE ROUNDABOUT VERSUS THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL. THEY DO GO HAND IN HAND, AND REALLY IT'S ONE OF THE MANY REASONS WHY THE LIGHT BULB WENT OFF FOR ME WITH ROUNDABOUTS, AND THAT THIS IS A GOOD ILLUSTRATION OF WHAT WE CAN DO TO TRANSFORM OUR ROADWAYS INTO BEING MORE MULTI-MODAL AND BETTER FOR EVERYONE. THIS IS THE PROJECT IN THE CITY OF NAPA, CALIFORNIA STATE ROUTE 29 THERE OFF TO THE LEFT. THIS IS AN ENTRANCE INTO THEIR DOWNTOWN. I DON'T HAVE THE PRI, WAS BASICALLY WHERE THOSE TWO ROUNDABOUTS WAS TWO SIGNALS WIDE, TYPICAL ROADS AND SO WE LOOKED AT PUTTING IT INTO ROUNDABOUTS HERE. ACTUALLY TO THE COUNSELORS QUESTION SO IN THIS CASE, ACTUALLY THIS CONNECTS RESIDENTIAL AREAS TO THE NORTH AND THE SOUTH AND SO WE ACTUALLY HAVE A REALLY NICE, WHAT THEY CALL CLASS 1 PATH THAT GOES AROUND THE PERIMETER OF THIS AND BECAUSE WE ONLY NEEDED REALLY THREE TRAVELING TO NORTH ONE SOUTH, WE COULD FIT THOSE IN, IN THE EXISTING RIGHT AWAY. THERE WAS ACTUALLY A LOT OF EXCESS RIGHT AWAY TO WORK WITH IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE. WE'RE ABLE TO PUT IN THIS NICE, THEY COULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENT THINGS, DIFFERENT CYCLE TRACK DESIGNS AS WELL. THIS IS PROBABLY AT LEAST 15 YEARS OLD. THE DESIGN CYCLE TRACK WAS JUST MAYBE, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF IT WAS AROUND QUITE YET IN NORTH AMERICA. WE HAVE THE ALL STREET, BUT THEN WE ALSO HAVE THE ON STREET. I THINK YOU'LL SEE IN A MOMENT, SOME OF THE DESIGN TREATMENTS THAT WE DID FOR THIS PROJECT TO ENHANCE THAT. THIS IS A VIDEO, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THIS IMAGE, IT'S A LITTLE TOUGH TO SEE, WE'RE A LITTLE FAR AWAY BUT YOU CAN SEE THE PEDESTRIAN CROSSINGS ARE COLORIZED. IF YOU LOOK UP ON THE NORTH THERE IS LITTLE TOUGH TO SEE. I CAN'T SEE IT FROM HERE, BUT WE USE THE GREEN PAINTS. IF SOMEONE IS COMING ON THE BIKE LANE SOUTHBOUND TOWARDS US, IT THEN SPLITS SO THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO OFF ONTO THE SHARED USE PATHWAY IN THIS CLASS, THE CLASS 1 PATHWAY. OR IF YOU'RE HIGHER LEVEL CYCLIST, YOU FEEL CONFIDENT, IT ALLOWS YOU TO THEN MERGE INTO TRAFFIC AND YOU'LL NOTICE A FEW SHADOWS HERE AND THERE TO ENCOURAGE CYCLISTS TO TAKE THE LANE AND ALSO TO INFORM DRIVERS THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE CYCLISTS IN YOUR LANE. OTHER THINGS BEFORE WE START THE VIDEO, BUT JUST FROM THE DESIGN SIDE, THE LANDSCAPING, THE LIGHTING, THE SIGNAGE, LOT OF REALLY NICE DESIGN DETAIL ON THIS PROJECT. THAT REALLY HELPS. IT HELPS EVERYTHING WORK BETTER. IT'S ALL IMPORTANT. THIS IS A MULTI-LINE PROJECTS, A GOOD AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT THESE PROCESS. THERE IS ONE PATH THAT CROSS TO THE NORTH SIDE, BUT IT REALLY IS AN EXAMPLE OF TRYING OFF. IF WE LOOK AT THE SPEEDS OF CARS CIRCULATING ON THIS ROUND ABOUT, OUR GUIDANCE IS TO TRY TO KEEP CARS LESS THAN 20 AT THE PAD CROSSINGS. WE DO THAT THROUGH A GEOMETRIC DESIGN. THAT'S THE FIRST LEVEL OF DESIGN SAFETY AND THEN THERE'S THE ENHANCEMENTS ON TOP OF THAT. IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A BELT AND PULLEY TYPE OF APPROACH, A LAYERED APPROACH TO SAFETY AND COMFORT. PROJECT IN LAFAYETTE, CALIFORNIA, [01:05:01] I THINK THIS IS A VIDEO THAT SHOWS SOME HIGHER-LEVEL CYCLISTS, LOT OF CYCLISTS RIDING THROUGH HERE, AGAIN, STRIVING TO KEEP VEHICULAR SPEEDS LOW WHILE STILL MEETING OUR OPERATIONAL OBLIGATIONS AND OBJECTIVES, I SHOULD SAY. YOU'LL NOTICE THE SHADOWS ON THIS ONE AS WELL. YOU'LL NOTICE SOME NICE CROSSINGS. THEY'RE NOT RAISED, BUT MORE TYPICAL LADDER STYLE PED CROSSING IN THIS CASE. USE OF SOME GREEN PAINT AS WELL AS SOME JUST STANDARD PEDESTRIAN SIGNAGE. I KNOW PEDS AND BIKES IS ONE OF THE BIG TOPICS. I HAVE SOME OTHER TOPICS HERE. IF THERE'S NO QUESTIONS ON PEDS, WE CAN TAKE MORE. BUT I'LL JUST GO THROUGH THE REST OF THESE IF THAT'S OKAY. THIS IS A ONE ISSUE AND MAYBE IT'S NOT AN ISSUE HERE, BUT THIS APP IS TO BE A ROUNDABOUT AND WITH A FIRE STATION RIGHT OFF IT. IT USED TO BE CONSTERNATION ABOUT EMERGENCY RESPONSE TIMES AND IN TORONTO IT'S GOING TO BE OKAY FOR THAT. FEDERAL HIGHWAYS CAME OUT WITH A BROCHURE A FEW YEARS BACK. THAT IS REALLY NICE. IT SPEAKS TO A LOT OF THE TYPICAL QUESTIONS THAT YOU GET FOLKS HAVE AND CONCERNS ABOUT THAT. IT REALLY IS A NON-ISSUE, BUT IT CAN BE A CONCERN NOT JUST FROM THE MINISTRY RESPONSE FOLKS, BUT CITIZENS AS WELL AND THEY HAVE A NICE ON THEIR BROCHURE. WILL TRUCKS GET THROUGH? WHAT ABOUT RESPONSE TIMES? IT SPEAKS TO ALL THOSE ISSUES. IN SUMMARY, IT WORKS WELL FOR ALL THOSE NEEDS. DESIGN VEHICLES. THE IMAGE ON THE LEFT, A HORSE TRAILER, I WAS WORKING ON A PROJECT NUMBER OF YEARS AGO IN SCOTTSDALE AREA WHERE A LOT OF HORSES, HORSE FARMS AND EXPENSIVE HORSE TRAILERS AND EXPENSIVE HORSES AND LOTS OF CONCERN AND ACCOMMODATING THOSE AND FOR GOOD REASON AND SO DESIGN DETAILS ARE IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE WERE WELL ACCOMMODATED AND THAT THEY DIDN'T GET BUMPED THROUGH A ROUNDABOUT AND THOSE THINGS. THE IMAGE ON THE RIGHT IS MORE OF A TYPICAL SEMI-TRUCK AND YOU CAN SEE THE TRUCK APRON ON THE INSIDE THERE AND SOME OF THE WAYS THAT WE LOOK TO ACCOMMODATE TRUCKS AND MAYBE NOT SO IMPORTANT FOR THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF. HERE'S A A STATE HIGHWAY WITH LARGE AND MORE TRUCKS AND WE CAN DO OTHER THINGS WITH ACCOMMODATE AND TRUCKS WITH PAINTED GORE'S AND THOSE THINGS TO SEPARATE CARS AND TRUCKS. BALANCING TRUCK NEEDS. ONE OF THE DESIGN CHALLENGES IS JUST ACCOMMODATING THOSE LARGER DESIGN VEHICLES, BUT THEN MAINTAINING THAT COMPACT GEOMETRY FOR SLOW SPEEDS TO IMPROVE PED AND BIKE ENVIRONMENT. I THINK THIS IS ROADWAY PLANNING OPPORTUNITIES, CONGESTION OCCURS PREDOMINANTLY AT OUR INTERSECTIONS AND THAT'S WHAT DRIVES OUR IMPROVEMENTS AND DRIVES A LOT OF WHAT WE DO. SIGNAL EYES INTERSECTIONS IS WHAT DICTATES A LOT OF OUR PLANNING AND TRAFFIC AND ROADWAY PLANNING IS WHAT THE NEEDS OF SIGNALS ALONG THAT ROAD IS WHAT DICTATES. ROUNDABOUTS ARE A GAME CHANGER. WE CAN PROVIDE CAPACITY AT THE INTERSECTION WITH LESS ROADWAY WIDTHS. WE HAVE MORE ROADWAY GEOMETRIC FLEXIBILITY BECAUSE WE KEEP THE SPEED SLOW. WE DON'T HAVE AN ADD SPEED CONDITION WITH SIGNALS OR EXCUSE ME, WITH ROUNDABOUTS LIKE WE DO WITH SIGNALS. ROUNDABOUTS CAN PROVIDE INTERSECTION SPACING VERSATILITY, THEN YOU CAN DO WITH SIGNALS AND DIFFERENT ACCESS CONTROL OPPORTUNITIES AS WELL. JUST A LITTLE IMAGE OF SHOWING THIS IS THE SAME COMMUNITY, JUST THE ROUNDABOUT ON THE RIGHT. IT'S A TWO-LANE ROAD WITH A THREE-LANE ROAD, IF YOU WILL, A TWO-WAY LEFT TURN LANE IN THE MIDDLE WITH BIKE LANES, AND THEN SOUTH OF TOWN, THEY JUST WENT TO THE MORE CONVENTIONAL WIDENING OF A FOUR-LANE DIVIDED ROADWAY. ROUNDABOUTS OFFER THOSE OPPORTUNITIES. IN THIS CASE, THIS LEADS INTO THEIR DOWNTOWN. THE ORIGINAL PLAN WAS TO FOUR-LANE THAT ROAD. THIS IS A STATE HIGHWAY AND THE COMMUNITY WAS NOT PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN LOSING THEIR PARKING AND ALL THE ECONOMIC AND LIVABILITY ASPECTS OF THAT SO BY IMPLEMENTING THE ROUNDABOUT HERE WITH WHAT WE CALL A FLARED ENTRY, GOING FROM A SINGLE LANE APPROACH TO A TWO-LANE ENTRY, WE CAN PUT THE CAPACITY AT THE INTERSECTION, WE DIDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO WIDEN THE WHOLE ROADWAY. COMING TO THE END HERE. COUPLE OF QUICK PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT. THIS GOES WAY BACK. [01:10:01] THIS IS FROM VAIL, COLORADO. THERE WAS A LOT OF CONSTERNATION WITH ROUNDABOUTS. THEY BUILT IT AND IT WAS VOTED THE BEST PUBLIC WORKS PROJECT FIVE YEARS IN A ROW. THEY HAD A COMMUNITY-WIDE SURVEY. THIS IS A TYPICAL CARTOON OF MAKING FUN OF FOLKS WHO ARE DOING IT. THEN THEY SAY, WELL, MAYBE IT'S NOT SO BAD AFTER ALL. THIS IS FROM WISCONSIN. I LIKED THIS BEING FROM WISCONSIN. I FOUND THIS IN A LOCAL NEWSPAPER AND HE SAYS, AS A RESIDENT NEIGHBORHOOD FOR 55 YEARS, EARL CADEM, WHO'S 82, FIGURES THE ROUNDABOUT WILL CONTROL TRAFFIC FLOW. THEY'VE GOT IT MARKED WELL, AND THAT'LL HELP BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE TO SLOW DOWN. SOME SAID CADEM, WHO TOOK A TURNAROUND THE INTERSECTION, TUESDAY, THIS IS THE BEST PART. IN WISCONSIN, THIS IS AN ENDORSEMENT. I WENT AROUND IT. IT'S NOT ANY WORSE THAN ANY OTHER STREET. THAT'S PRETTY GOOD. THIS IS A PROJECT IN WISCONSIN, LITTLE TOWN CALLED MOUNT HALL. GUYS SEE, WE DON'T OFTEN GET SPECTATORS TO OPENING OF OUR INTERSECTIONS. IT'S A SMALL COMMUNITY, ABOUT 5,000 BEDROOM COMMUNITY. THAT'S THE VILLAGE ADMINISTRATORS, SOME OF HIS COLLEAGUES, GOT SOME POLICE AROUND. GUY UP ON THE SCOOTER THERE USED TO SHOW UP DURING CONSTRUCTION AND TELL ME EVERY DAY THAT THERE'S NO WAY THIS IS GOING TO WORK KIND OF THING. CHANGE IS HARD AND IT GOT PUT IN. THEY LIKED IT SO MUCH, IT REALLY SOLVE THE CONGESTION PROBLEM THERE AND IMPROVE THE ACCESS FOR THE LOCAL BUSINESSES, THE FOLKS WALKING AROUND LIKED IT. THE REASON FOR THIS IMAGE ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT IS A POPULAR CONVENIENCE STORE IN WISCONSIN AND THEY EXPANDED WITH THE ACCESS THEY HAD. IT'S A BUSY LITTLE SPOT, IT'S A BUSY LITTLE INTERSECTION OF ROUNDABOUT. THEY LIKED THAT ONE SO MUCH AND IT'S SOLID, AND THEY PLANNED THIS NEW ROADWAY WITH FOUR MORE ROUNDABOUTS AND THE RAILROADS ALLOWED THEM TO REDUCE THEIR CROSS-SECTION AS THEY BUILT THAT OUT. I THINK THIS IS THE LAST ONE. THIS IS THE MONTERREY PENINSULA IN CALIFORNIA. ENTRANCE TO PEBBLE BEACH OFF STATE ROUTE 1. AGE-OLD PROBLEMS, SIGNIFICANT CONGESTION. THERE'S CONGESTION EVERYWHERE OFTEN IN CALIFORNIA, BUT THE TRADITIONAL FOUR-LANE WIDENING WITH SIGNALS WAS BASICALLY JUST ON THE SHELF FOR A COUPLE OF DECADES. IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO BUILD IT DUE TO THE IMPACTS AND COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH IT. LOCAL ENGINEER NAMED MITCH DILL, NOT THAT IT MATTERS, HAD THE IDEA THAT MAYBE ROUNDABOUTS WOULD BE A SOLUTION HERE. AGAIN, ALIGNED TO SOLVE THE CONGESTION OF THE INTERSECTION WITHOUT HAVING TO WIDEN THE ROADWAY. THE ROADWAY IT WAS ABOUT $15 MILLION, LESS THAN THE TRADITIONAL IMPROVEMENTS, AND THERE'S A LOOK AT WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. LOCAL MONTEREY NEWSPAPER NAMED IT THE BEST USE OF GOVERNMENT FUNDS 2017. IT WAS A BIG SUCCESS FOR THAT COMMUNITY. YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE MAYOR AND WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT IT IN THAT VIDEO, AND THAT'S THE END. >> THANK YOU. >> OF THE SLIDES. >> COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET HAS QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS. >> THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. I'M A NEW BICYCLIST WHO IS FAIRLY COMFORTABLE AND I JUST DID A ROUNDABOUT HERE IN TOWN THAT'S PRETTY BUSY, AND I OPTED TO TAKE THE LANE. THERE WAS NO SEPARATED BIKE LANE IN THE ROUNDABOUT AND AT THAT MOMENT, I WAS WISHING THAT THERE WAS. IN YOUR PRESENTATION, I'M NOT REALLY SEEING A LOT OF SEPARATED BIKE LANES IN THE ROUNDABOUT, CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT? >> YES, I SURE CAN. OVER THE DECADES IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, THEY'VE TRIED BIKE LANES IN THE ROUNDABOUT, WHICH WOULD INVOLVE YOU STAYING NEXT TO THE CURB ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE ROUNDABOUT. WHAT THEY FOUND WAS, THAT WAS MUCH LESS SAFE FOR CYCLISTS THAN WHAT WE DO, WHICH IS A LITTLE COUNTER-INTUITIVE. AS YOU APPROACH THAT ROUNDABOUT, WE WANT YOU TO GET CLOSE TO THE ROUNDABOUT, SO THAT VEHICLE'S SPEED ARE STARTING TO SLOW DOWN. SO THAT YOU EITHER EXIT ONTO A OFF-STREET FACILITY AND GO AROUND THE ROUNDABOUT AND THEN COME BACK ONTO THE STREET OR ONTO THE CONTINUATION OF THAT CYCLE OR YOU'RE GOING TO MERGE AND TAKE A LANE AS A CYCLIST. [01:15:04] WE WANT YOU CLOSER TO THE INTERSECTION, TO THE ROUNDABOUT. CARS ARE COMING SO THAT YOU CAN MERGE WHEN SPEEDS ARE CLOSER TO ONE ANOTHER AND THEN TAKE A LANE. IF YOU HAD A SIGNAL, YOU'RE MAKING A LEFT, IF YOU'RE GOING THROUGH IT, A SIGNAL, YOU GET A LANE, YOU GET A LANE AND ALL THE WAY THROUGH AND THAT'S GOOD, BUT IF YOU'RE MAKING A LEFT, UNLESS YOU'RE DOING BIKE BOXES AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS WHICH ARE STARTING TO COME ON, WE'RE TRAINED TO TAKE A LANE AND GET OUT THERE AND TAKE THAT LANE, GET THROUGH THE INTERSECTION AND THAT'S THE SAME APPROACH WE DO IN ROUNDABOUTS. IT'S A LITTLE COUNTER-INTUITIVE THAT YOU WANT A FACILITY, BUT THE RESEARCH DOESN'T SUPPORT THAT. THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. >> THANK YOU. WHEN I DID DO IT, I WAS NERVOUS, BUT IT WAS JUST NATURAL FOR ME TO TAKE THE LANE, AND WHEN I WAS DONE DOING IT, I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, THAT WASN'T SO BAD. THANK YOU >> GOOD. DESIGN DOES MATTER. HOW FAST OUR CAR IS GOING IN THAT ROUNDABOUT. YOU CAN HAVE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES AT DIFFERENT ROUNDABOUTS AND HOW MANY CARS ARE THERE AT THE ROUNDABOUT AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, AND HOW ARE YOU FEELING THAT DAY? WHEN I USED TO COMMUTE IN THE MORNING, I WAS FRESH, AND THEN GOING HOME, I'M LIKE, I WANT TO GO ON THE SIDEWALK BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH ANYTHING. >> OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY. >> THANK YOU. INTERESTING PRESENTATION. ONE THING I'VE NOTICED ABOUT ROUNDABOUTS, ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE TWO-LANE ROUNDABOUTS, ONE-LANE ROUNDABOUTS, THOSE ARE NO-BRAINERS, BUT THE TWO-LANERS, SOMETIMES THE SIGNS ARE VERY CONFUSING WHEN YOU CYCLE. WHERE I'M SUPPOSED TO GO, IF I WANT TO MAKE A 90-DEGREE, SHOULD I BE IN THIS LANE OR THIS LANE? MAYBE WE CAN WORK ON SIGNAGE. THE OTHER THING I MIGHT NOTICE, AS YOU MENTIONED, WE'RE PUTTING AROUND ABOUT IN ON 4TH STREET AND WHAT WE DID IS WE JOGGED THE PEDESTRIAN GO ACROSS. WHEN YOU GO ACROSS TWO LANES AND THEN YOU GO TO THE LITTLE SAFETY ISLAND, YOU DON'T GO STRAIGHT ACROSS. YOU HAVE TO MOVE TO THE LEFT, TO THE RIGHT, MAYBE FOUR OR FIVE FEET. OUR IDEA WITH THAT WAS IS THAT, MY KIDS WON'T RUN ACROSS, SO I'D BE FORCED TO REEVALUATE THE OTHER TWO LANES BEFORE THEY MAKE THE ASSUMPTION THAT WELL, THESE TWO LANES ARE SAFE, SO THE OTHER ONES ARE SAFE. NO, IT'S TWO SEPARATE DISCUSSIONS OR A DECISION POINT. >> YES. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT UP, AND THAT'S A DESIGN ELEMENT, SOMETHING THAT I RECOMMEND IN ALMOST ALL MY PROJECTS. WE TALKED ABOUT THAT IN THAT PROJECT, I HELPED WORK WITH CITY STAFF ON THAT PROJECT AS A SUB-CONSULTANT TO THE PRIME FIRM. THAT IS ONE ELEMENT OF DESIGN THAT FACILITATES A BETTER ENVIRONMENT FOR PEDS. TO THE SIGNING ISSUE, TOMORROW WE'RE GOING TO SPEND PROBABLY AN HOUR-AND-A-HALF TALKING ABOUT THOSE ISSUES. IT'S AN ISSUE NEAR AND DEAR TO WHAT I DO IN MY PRACTICE AND IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT. IT'S EASY TO OVER-SIGN AND NOT MAKE IT INTUITIVE FOR DRIVERS AND IT JUST A CHAOTIC MESS. TRYING TO FIND THAT SWEET SPOT TO THE RIGHT SIGNAGE, TO THE RIGHT PLACEMENT, NOT TOO MUCH, NOT TOO LITTLE. I THINK I HAVE GOOD FEELINGS ABOUT YOUR STAFF IN TERMS OF IMPLEMENTING SOME GOOD RECOMMENDATIONS ON THAT. >> VICE MAYOR HAS A COMMENT. >> HI THERE. THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOUR EXPERTISE IN THE ROOM WITH US AS WE CONSIDER ROUNDABOUTS IN GENERAL FOR FLAGSTAFF. >> MY PLEASURE. >> JUST A QUICK COMMENT, REALLY, I DON'T HAVE MUCH OF A QUESTION. I DO BELIEVE THAT SAFETY IS PARAMOUNT. SAFETY OF PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS IS PARAMOUNT. WE ARE WORKING ON A BIG SHIFT WHERE WE'RE RIGHT-SIZING OUR ROADS AND WE ARE ENCOURAGING MODES OF TRANSPORTATION THAT DON'T NEED TO INVOLVE CARS. WE'RE NOT IGNORING CARS. CARS ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE A PART OF THE FLAGSTAFF LANDSCAPE. IT'S MOUNTAINOUS HERE. WE HAVE LOTS OF DIFFERENT AGES OF FOLKS IN TOWN WITH DIFFERENT ABILITIES, WE HAVE FOUR SEASONS. I MYSELF DON'T GET TO RIDE MY BIKE VERY MUCH. I LIVE OUT IN PONDEROSA TRAILS. I HAVE TWO KIDS THAT NEED TO BE SCHLEPPED EVERYWHERE, AND WE ONLY HAVE A LIMITED TIME BETWEEN THEIR ACTIVITIES TO GET THEM FROM PLACE TO PLACE. >> UNDERSTAND. >> SO CARS ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE IMPORTANT. WE DO NEED TO FIND WAYS TO GET CARS FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER QUICKLY AND EFFICIENTLY. ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE WORKING ON RIGHT-SIZING OUR ROADS AND OTHER WAYS. WHILE I THINK THAT OBVIOUSLY PEDESTRIAN AND CYCLIST SAFETY NEEDS TO COME FIRST, [01:20:06] I ALSO PRESUME THAT THOSE CALCULATIONS ARE BEING MADE BY OUR ENGINEERS AND OUR PLANNERS, THAT GOES WITHOUT SAYING AS WELL. I'M A BIG FAN OF ROUNDABOUTS. I ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, LONG BEFORE I WAS ON COUNCIL, I WAS WONDERING WHY THERE WEREN'T AS MANY ROUNDABOUTS AS FLAGSTAFF AS THERE WERE IN OTHER PARTS OF NORTHERN ARIZONA, SAY LIKE CINAHL VALLEY AND PRESS KIT AND SEDONA. I REALLY WANTED TO SEE MORE ROUNDABOUTS IN TOWN AND I'M JUST REALLY EXCITED TO SEE THIS CONVERSATION MOVING IN THE DIRECTION IT IS. I JUST THINK IT'S A GREAT SOLUTION. I DO HEAR YOU WHEN YOU SAY THAT THIS TENDS TO BE A SAFER OPTION, ESPECIALLY FOR PEDESTRIANS. I REALLY LIKED THE ILLUSTRATION YOU MADE ABOUT THE NOTION THAT BOTH PARTIES ARE MORE ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN DECISION-MAKING, SO THERE'S A SLOWER DANCE THAT'S GOING ON THERE AS PEDESTRIANS ARE FILTERING THROUGH SLOW-MOVING TRAFFIC. I THINK THAT'S A GREAT WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT AND IT'S A NICE WAY TO CALIBRATE OUR MINDS. YOU GOT DRIVERS MORE ACTIVELY LOOKING FOR AND AT PEDESTRIANS WHO ARE RUNNING BY. YOU HAVE PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS AND KIDS AND OUR MIDDLE-SCHOOL YOUTH AND OUR GRADE SCHOOL YOUTH WHO ARE REALLY ACTIVELY MAKING A DECISION WHEN TO CROSS THE STREET AND NOT JUST RELYING ON SOME SYMBOL BAR OFF TO SWITCH BEFORE THEY GO DARTING OUT. IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT MAKES LOT OF SENSE. IT FEELS VERY NATURAL TO ME. IT FEELS VERY SYNERGISTIC. FOR MY PART, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE CAUSE FOR US TO EVALUATE THESE THINGS SITUATIONALLY AND IN THE INDIVIDUAL CONTEXT OF EACH SCENARIO, IN EACH INTERSECTION. BUT I'M VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF ROUNDABOUTS WHEREVER THEY MAKE SENSE AND WHEREVER THEY PROVIDE GREATER SAFETY AND WILL BE FIERCE PROPONENT FOR THEIR USE IN TOWN AS A WAY TO GET ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT MULTI-MODAL TRANSPORTATION AND ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION USERS THROUGHOUT TOWN. >> WE'RE READY TO TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT. I BELIEVE WE ONLY HAVE ONE COMMENTER. ADAMSHEMONY. >> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, AND MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL, SEE LEADERSHIPS AND STAFF, OUR GUEST MARK. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE. I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY OF JOINING STAFF TODAY FOR THE WORK SESSION SINCE EIGHT IN THE MORNING AND LEARNED ALL THINGS ROUNDABOUT AND GET INTO SOME HEATED DISCUSSION ABOUT SAFETY IN PEDESTRIAN MOVEMENT, AS YOU SAW IN THOSE VIDEOS, CARS DON'T STOP FOR PEDESTRIANS. THEY DON'T, MUST TAKE POSSESSIONS ALREADY IN THE LANE, IS WHERE IT SEEMS LIKE. BUT YEAH, THROUGH DISCUSSIONS, I THINK I AM COMING TO REALIZE THERE IS VALUE IN THESE ROUNDABOUTS. IT DOES ULTIMATELY SLOW CARS DOWN AND IT DOES PREVENT RED LIGHT CROSSINGS AT 40, 50 MILES AN HOUR WHERE YOU'RE GUARANTEED A FATALITY OR NEARLY GUARANTEED. I THINK AS MARK IS SPEAKING TO US ABOUT IF IT'S DONE PROPERLY, THERE IS A WAY TO DO IT RIGHT AND IN A WAY TO DO IT SAFELY. BUT AS YOU ADD MORE LANES, IT GETS MORE COMPLICATED AND IT BECOMES MORE DANGEROUS. I REALLY JUST WANT TO SAY, I APPRECIATE JEFF FROM ENGINEERING AND FROM TRAFFIC AND THE TEAM FOR INVITING ME IN AND LETTING ME SIT IN TODAY. BUT I'M FEELING MORE HOPEFUL AS THE DAY PROGRESSES AND ESPECIALLY LOOKING FORWARD. THAT BEING SAID, I STILL HAVE LOTS OF CONCERNS ABOUT THE SAFETY AND COMFORT FOR WALKERS AND BIKERS AND WHETHER OR NOT WE ARE REALLY ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO WALK AND BIKE WITH THESE DESIGNS. I'VE WATCHED A NUMBER OF THESE VIDEOS OF PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS' MOVEMENT THROUGH THESE ROUNDABOUTS, AND IT IS SKETCHY. IT DOES NOT SEEM VERY CLEAR. I MEAN, YOU SAW THOSE KIDS DODGING AND DEBATING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THAT CAR WAS GOING TO STOP. IF THERE'S TWO LANES I MEAN, THERE'S TWO LANES OF THAT. BUT THERE ARE MITIGATION STRATEGIES I THINK CAN HELP. YEAH, I WAS SAYING EARLIER DURING OUR RETREAT OR OUR WORK SESSION [01:25:03] THAT IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU'RE PLAYING FROG OR IN HUMAN SIZE WITH YOUR LIFE THOUGH. THE NICE THING THOUGH IS I GUESS THE CARS ARE MOVING SLOWER, SO IT DOES GIVE THEM THE CHANCE TO STOP. BUT ARE THEY LOOKING? ARE THEY DISTRACTED? ARE THEY CONCERNED ABOUT THE SIGNAGE IN WHAT LANE TO BE IN? ARE THEY SIX FEET OFF THE GROUND AND A NEW TRUCK THAT'S REALLY TALL AND THEY DON'T EVEN SEE THE CHILD OR THE ELDERLY OR THE INDIVIDUAL WITH THE DISABILITY? THESE ARE ALL CONCERNS I HAVE. WE DID SPEAK A LOT ABOUT HOCKS AND BEACONS AND HOW TO IMPLEMENT THOSE INTO THE DESIGNS. THAT DOES GIVE ME HOPE THAT IF WE CAN STOP CARS WITH GOOD SIGNALIZED, STOPPING MECHANISMS, I DO ULTIMATELY SEE VALUE IN THIS AND SEEING THAT MY TIME IS STARTING TO RUN OUT, I THINK THE ONE REALLY BIG TAKEAWAY FOR ME THAT I LEARNED FROM MARK IS THAT BASICALLY ROUNDABOUTS CAN ALLOW YOU TO BUILD A SMALL DESIGN. I'M BASICALLY OUT OF TIME, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, LET ME KNOW, BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> THANK YOU, ADAM. WE HAVE NO FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE PRESENTATION AND STAFF. THANKS FOR HAVING THIS TWO-DAY WORKSHOP ON ROUNDABOUTS. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. WE ARE MOVING DOWN TO ITEM NUMBER 8, [8. City of Flagstaff Advertising Policy Discuss with the Mayor, Vice Mayor and Councilmembers the revisions we are making to our advertising standards to form a facility-wide policy that acts as a guideline for businesses, groups, events, and more when advertising with the City of Flagstaff (COF). ] CITY OF FLAGSTAFF ADVERTISING POLICY. I BELIEVE WE HAVE A PRESENTATION FROM STAFF. >> MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBERS, HEIDI HANSEN, ECONOMIC VITALITY DIRECTOR, HERE THIS AFTERNOON WITH SEVERAL OTHERS THAT HAVE GOTTEN TOGETHER TO LOOK AT OUR ADVERTISING STANDARDS FOR THE CITY AS A WHOLE. I HAVE OUR DEPUTY CITY ATTORNEY, KEVIN FINCEL WITH US. I HAVE CLAIRE HARPER OUR AIRPORT COMMUNICATIONS MANAGER, BRIAN GALL OUR AIRPORT DIRECTOR. I HAVE REBECCA SAYERS, OUR PROS DIRECTOR AND AMY HAGEN OUR ASSISTANT PARKS AND RECREATION DIRECTOR. ALL OF US HAVE WORKED ON THIS TOGETHER AND I WILL BE CONTINUING TO GO THROUGH SLIDE BY SLIDE AND YOU'LL HAVE DISCUSSION. FOR OUR DISCUSSION THIS AFTERNOON, IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME COUNCIL IS SEEING THE PROPOSED DRAFT POLICY. THE CURRENT DRAFT IS A COLLECTION OF IDEAS THAT WERE CREATED BY THE STAFF FOR COUNCIL DISCUSSION. ANYTHING CAN BE CHANGED AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT IT ONLY APPLIES TO ADVERTISING IN CITY FACILITIES, NAMELY THE FLAGSTAFF, PULLIAM AIRPORT, AND OUR RECREATION FACILITIES. BASICALLY, A POLICY OF THIS TYPE IS TO HELP ENSURE THAT ALL FACILITIES ARE RUNNING OUR PROGRAMS SIMILAR AS WE CAN. THERE WILL BE SOME SLIGHT ALTERATIONS THAT I WILL SHOW YOU AS I MOVE ALONG IN THE PRESENTATION THOUGH. THE AIRPORT AND OUR RECREATION FACILITIES ALL HAD A SET OF STANDARDS OUTLINED IN THEIR ADVERTISING AGREEMENTS. IT WAS NOT EXTENSIVE AND IT DID NOT GIVE ENOUGH DETAIL FOR STAFF OR THE BUSINESSES THAT MIGHT BE INQUIRING ABOUT ADVERTISING. THEREFORE, WHEN LOOKING AT THE AIRPORT, FOR INSTANCE, WE LOOKED AT OTHER AIRPORTS TO HELP GUIDE THE POLICY DEVELOPMENT IDEAS THAT YOU WILL SEE TODAY. HERE ARE SOME OF THE AIRPORTS LISTED ON THE SLIDE THAT WE LOOKED AT. BLUEGRASS, CHARLESTON, MESA, PHOENIX, SONOMA, TUCSON, AND WACO. WE ALSO LOOKED AT THE LAMAR ADVERTISING GUIDELINES BECAUSE MANY AIRPORTS ACTUALLY USE A THIRD-PARTY ADVERTISING FIRM. WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF HAVING AN ADVERTISING POLICY? IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE ESTABLISHED CRITERIA FOR ADVERTISING AT OUR FACILITIES AND THE OBJECTIVE IS TO MANAGE THE ADVERTISING SO WE CAN GENERATE REVENUE WHILE OFFERING OPPORTUNITIES TO PROMOTE ACTIVITIES, TO BRAND THE BUSINESS. BUT KEEP IN MIND THAT WE WANT TO HAVE A WELCOMING AND COMFORTABLE ENVIRONMENT FOR OUR PATRONS. HERE ARE THE PERMITTED TYPES OF ADVERTISING IDEAS THAT WE'RE SUGGESTING AND THE ONES THAT MIRROR THE OTHER LOCATIONS THAT I JUST SHOWED YOU ON THE OTHER SLIDE. WE WOULD WANT TO PERMIT ADVERTISING THAT PROPOSES A COMMERCIAL TRANSACTION, ENCOURAGES PATRONAGE TO A COMMERCIAL BUSINESS THAT PROMOTES A PARTICULAR INDUSTRY, PROMOTES TOURISM, AND PROMOTES ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. NOW WE WILL START TO GET MORE SPECIFIC ON ADVERTISING CONTENT RESTRICTION IDEAS THAT WE WILL BE DISCUSSING WITH YOU. [01:30:03] I WILL WALK YOU THROUGH CURRENT STANDARDS AND THEN SHOW YOU THE CHANGES OR EDITS ON THESE IDEAS THAT WE HAVE LOOKED AT WITH THOSE SIMILAR JURISDICTIONS. AFTER EACH SLIDE, THERE'LL BE COUNCIL DISCUSSION AND ACTUALLY MAYOR, I THINK I MIGHT CHANGE THAT OUT OF FAIRNESS TO THE PUBLIC PARTICIPANTS SITTING HERE. I MIGHT ASK THAT I GO THROUGH THESE SLIDES AND THAT WE DISCUSS THEM IN GREATER DETAIL AFTER WE LET PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. IF YOU HAVE TOO MUCH DETAIL, I THINK IT MIGHT WATER DOWN THEIR INVOLVEMENT IN THIS. I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE MIGHT DO. YOU'RE GOING TO SEE WHAT I MEAN WHEN YOU GET TO MY SLIDES. THIS SLIDE IS JUST TO SHOW YOU THAT WE HAD STANDARDS THAT WERE EMBEDDED INTO OUR ADVERTISING CONTRACTS. SO THEY'RE NOT LARGE, THEY TAKE ABOUT HALF A PAGE. THE POLICY THAT YOU WILL BE CREATING WILL BE A STANDALONE POLICY AND ONE THAT WILL ACCOMPANY AN ADVERTISING AGREEMENT IN THE FUTURE, AND THAT WILL GO TO AN ADVERTISER WHEN THEY WISH TO ADVERTISE. THIS IS WHAT I MEAN. MAYOR, I WAS GOING TO GO THROUGH WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE AND WHAT WE'RE SUGGESTING AND THEN TALK ABOUT IT, BUT I THINK IF YOU LET ME GO THROUGH EACH OF THESE SLIDES, IT WOULD BE A BETTER CONVERSATION FOR THE PUBLIC AND FOR ALL OF YOU. DOES THAT WORK? I CAN ALWAYS GO BACK TO SLIDES AS YOU NEED ME TO. GREAT. ON THE LEFT YOU WILL SEE THE CURRENT STANDARD THAT WE HAVE AND ON THE RIGHT YOU WILL SEE THE CHANGE OR THE EDIT IDEA THAT WE'RE SUGGESTING. WE'RE ALSO LOOKING TO CREATE MORE CONSISTENCY WITH THE ADVERTISING POLICY. THE WORD ADVERTISING IS GOING TO ALWAYS BE PLACED IN FRONT OF ANY OF THE OBJECTIVES. STARTING WITH A, BASICALLY, ALL WE DID WAS ADD THE WORD ADVERTISING [LAUGHTER]. THAT'S A PRETTY SIMPLE ONE. WE'RE ASKING TO HAVE ADVERTISING IS FALSE, MISLEADING, OR DECEPTIVE, IS THE CHANGE THAT YOU'LL SEE THERE. ON B, WE HAVE CHANGED TO READ ADVERTISING PROMOTES OR ENCOURAGES THE USE OF POSSESSION OF ILLEGAL GOODS OR SERVICES UNDER LOCAL, STATE, OR FEDERAL LAWS. SO WE'VE GIVEN A LITTLE BIT MORE TO THE B. C, WE HAVE ADDED. WE ADDED ADVERTISING THAT IS LIBELIST OR DEFAMATORY. WE SAW THAT IN A LOT OF OTHER GUIDELINES THAT WE RECEIVED AT THE OTHER AIRPORTS THAT I TALKED TO YOU ABOUT IN JURISDICTIONS AND SO WE'VE ADDED THAT ONE. THEN C ACTUALLY CHANGES TO D AND WE'RE SAYING IT'S ABOUT COPYRIGHT. WE'VE CHANGED IT TO READ MORE SPECIFICALLY THAT ADVERTISING THAT INFRINGES ON ANY COPYRIGHT, TRADEMARK, OR SERVICE WORK. I DON'T SEE ANY PUZZLING LOOKS. D. D NOW HAS ADVERTISING THAT PROMOTES SOLICITS, DEPICTS, OR MARKETS TO SELL OR USE OF CIGARETTES OR ELECTRONIC CIGARETTES. TOBACCO, WE'VE ADDED MARIJUANA OR RELATED GOODS OR SERVICES. AS YOU CAN TELL, WHEN WE HAD D BEFORE, IT WAS A LOT SIMPLER AND WE'RE JUST GOING OFF OF LANGUAGE THAT WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS SUGGESTED. E IS NOW F, AND IT IS IN MORE DETAIL, ADVERTISING THAT PROMOTE SOLICIT, DEPICTS OR MARKETS TO SELL OR USE OF SPIRIT AS LIQUOR AS DETERMINED IN THE ARIZONA REVISED STATUTES 4-101. ON THIS ONE THOUGH, WHERE I TOLD YOU WE WOULD HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE AIRPORT AND TIMES AND WE WILL IN SOME OF OUR RECREATIONAL FACILITIES, WE ARE ASKING THAT WE DO NOT PROHIBIT THE AIRPORT FACILITY BECAUSE WE HAVE BREWERIES IN TOWN THAT HAVE A BREWERY TRAIL, FOR INSTANCE, THAT IS CONSIDERED AN ATTRACTION FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING AND GOING. WE HAVE A LOT OF VISITORS THAT ARE FLYING OUT OF THE AIRPORT AND WE ALSO HAVE AN AIRPORT CAFE THAT IS ALLOWED TO SELL SPIRITS. WE CAN COME BACK TO THAT. F, NOW WE ADDED MORE TO F RELATED TO THE FOLLOWING. WE'VE INCLUDED THE INFORMATION ON FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION. BEFORE IT STATED AS ANYTHING REPRESENTING VIOLENCE, WHICH IS HARDER FOR SOMEONE TO TRULY DECIPHER, AND THEN IT BECOMES A JUDGMENT CALL BY YOUR STAFF. THE NEW H WAS ADDED THAT INCLUDES ADVERTISING THAT CONTAINS ANY THREAT, IMPLIED OR DIRECT TO HARM A PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL OR GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS. THE CURRENT G IS NOW GOING TO BE THE NEW I, WHERE WE BASICALLY ADD THE WORD OBSCENE THAT WE SAW IN SIMILAR JURISDICTIONS. ON THIS ONE, THE CURRENT H IS NOW THE NEW J AND WE HAVE NOT USED THE WORDS WERE THE EXPOSED BUTTOCKS OF ANY PERSON [01:35:01] BECAUSE QUITE HONESTLY SEMI-NUDE TAKES CARE OF THAT. THE CURRENT I IS NOW THE NEW K. IT'S VERY SIMILAR IN LANGUAGE AND AGAIN, WE STARTED ALL OF THOSE OUT WITH THE WORD ADVERTISING. VERY SLIGHT CHANGES. LASTLY, THE CURRENT J IS NOW L, AND IT READS AS FOLLOWS BECAUSE IT WAS VERY SHORT BEFORE. WE'RE BEING VERY SPECIFIC ON THIS ONE. ADVERTISING THAT IS POLITICAL IN NATURE OR CONTAINS POLITICAL MESSAGES, INCLUDING ADVERTISING THAT REFERS TO A SPECIFIC VALID QUESTION, AN INITIATIVE, A PETITION, OR A REFERENDUM REFERS TO A POLITICAL PARTY, OR SUPPORTS A CANDIDATE FOR PUBLIC OFFICE. THIS PROHIBITION DOES NOT APPLY TO ADVERTORIALS MADE BY LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS THOUGH, PROMOTING THE CITY OR LOCAL TOURISM AND I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE MEAN WITH THAT. IF WE HAVE A CURRENT COUNCIL MEMBER ASKING THE VISITOR ON THE TV SCREEN TO STAY AND PLAY RESPONSIBLE OR TO LEAVE NO TRACE TO PICK UP THEIR LITTER, THINGS LIKE THAT, WE DON'T FEEL LIKE THAT'S GIVING YOU A VOTE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT OR HELPING YOU WITH YOUR CAMPAIGN. WE FEEL LIKE THAT'S JUST BEING A GOOD STEWARD OF OUR ENVIRONMENT AND YOU'RE HELPING US OUT. THAT'S WHAT I HAVE ON THOSE. WE CAN GO BACK TO THOSE AFTER PUBLIC PARTICIPATION, BUT I'M GOING TO JUST FINISH OUT THE POLICY IF YOU DON'T MIND, MAYOR. FOR ADVERTISING LOCATIONS ON THE POLICY IS GOING TO SHOW THAT IT IS THE CITY'S SOUL RIGHT TO DETERMINE LOCATIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE IN OUR ADVERTISING PROGRAMS AND TO LET PEOPLE KNOW WHEN THEY MIGHT CHANGE. I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. AT THE AIRPORT, WE HAVE WINDOW WRAPS. I AT ONE POINT MIGHT'VE HAD TO TELL THE IRS OFFICE OF TOURISM THAT WAS ADVERTISING THAT WE HAD TO TAKE THAT DOWN SHORTLY AFTER THEY HAD ALREADY PUT IT UP BECAUSE WE WERE GOING TO HAVE CRANES IN THE TERMINAL, THAT WE'RE GOING TO FIX THE SPRINKLER SYSTEM. BASICALLY, NOT ONLY WOULD I BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT DOWN, EVEN THOUGH THEY JUST PUT IT UP, I CAN TELL THEM THAT WE HAVE FOUND THEM A NEW LOCATION. WE NEED TO RESERVE THAT RIGHT, BECAUSE IF WE HAVE TO DO BUSINESS IN THE AIRPORT OR BUSINESS IN ONE OF OUR FACILITIES THAT IS GOING TO SAVE LIVES THEN WE HAVE TO DO THAT. I WANTED TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE MEAN BY US BEING ABLE TO PICK OUR ADVERTISING LOCATIONS. WE HAVE ALSO OUTLINED A SUGGESTED APPLICATION AND REVIEW POLICY. A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT POLICY IS ALL PROPOSED ADVERTISING MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING. THE CITY'S DEPARTMENT OR DIVISION DESIGNEE WILL REVIEW IT. IF NO CHANGES ARE NEEDED, THE ADVERTISING WILL BE ACCEPTED FOR DISPLAY. IF IT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH THE POLICY, THEY WON'T FORM THE ADVERTISER IN WRITING THAT IT'S NOT ACCEPTED. THE DECISION OF THE DEPARTMENT OR DIVISION DESIGNATE MAY BE APPEALED IN WRITING TO THE DIVISION DIRECTOR WHOSE FORMAL DETERMINATION SHALL BE FINAL. THIS IS A SUGGESTION ON THE REVIEW PROCESS. THAT IS ALL I HAVE. HOPE I DIDN'T GO TOO FAST, BUT I KNOW THAT WE HAVE SOME PEOPLE THAT WANT TO PARTICIPATE, SO I WANTED TO GET THROUGH THAT FOR YOU, MAYOR. >> THANK YOU, HEIDI. I'M GOING TO GO STRAIGHT INTO PUBLIC PARTICIPATION, PUBLIC INPUT. FIRST, WE HAVE BARRY SPFUPHERA, >> GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU FOR HAVING US. I WANTED TO BE THE PERSON THAT STOOD HERE LATER AND SAID WHAT HE SAID BECAUSE THERE'S PEOPLE HERE THAT ARE MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT IT THAN I AM. HOWEVER, WHEN I FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS PROPOSAL, THE FIRST THING THAT CAME TO MY MIND IS IT'S PRETTY MUCH THE SAME WITH VERY FEW CHANGES EXCEPT FOR THE AREA WHEN IT CONCERNS THE FIREARMS, AMMUNITION TRAINING AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. MY QUESTION WOULD BE, WHERE DID THAT COME FROM AND HOW DID THAT COME UP? IT JUST DIDN'T COME UP OUT OF THIN AIR THAT SOMEBODY SAID WE NEED TO NOT ALLOW ADVERTISING FOR FIREARMS IN PARTICIPATING IN THE FIREARMS SPORTS. SECONDLY, I'M ALREADY ADVISED FROM OTHER PEOPLE THAT THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED IN OTHER PARTS OF THE ARIZONA AND IT'S BEEN THROWN OUT. I'M WONDERING WHY FLAGSTAFF WANTS TO SPEND THE TIME AND THE EFFORT TO GO INTO IT WHEN OTHER AGENCIES AND JURISDICTIONS HAVE ALREADY FOUND OUT THAT THEY CAN'T DO THAT, THAT IT'S AN INFRINGEMENT ON BASICALLY THE FIRST AMENDMENT FOR ADVERTISING. THAT WOULD BE MY SECOND QUESTION. THE THIRD THING IS, I WORK IN THE FIREARMS INDUSTRY. I WORKED FOR TIMBERLINE FIREARMS AND TRAINING AND A LOT OF THE WORK THAT I DO IS INVOLVING SAFETY AND PEOPLE THAT COME THERE. AFTER SEEING ADVERTISEMENTS FOR OUR FACILITY, MOST OF THEM FROM OUT OF COUNTRY. THEY CAN'T DO THIS OVER THERE, THEY CAN'T EVEN SAY GUN OVER THERE, BUT THEY WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE SPORT. THEY COME IN AND THEY LEARN AND THEY LEAVE THERE WITH [01:40:01] THE BIGGEST SMILE ON THEIR FACE AND THEY GO, WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS? WHY IS EVERYBODY WANTS TO STOP THIS? IF YOU CUT BACK THE ADVERTISING FOR THAT, YOU'RE GOING TO DECREASE THE PEOPLE THAT COME TO OUR FACILITY, WHICH IMPACTS US FINANCIALLY, ME BECAUSE I WON'T HAVE TO WORK AS MUCH. ALSO THE COMPANY THAT I WORKED FOR PAYS TAXES. THEY'RE LEGITIMATE BUSINESS, THEY'RE LICENSED, THEY PAY THEIR TAXES. NOW YOU'RE TRYING TO KEEP IT FROM PARTICIPATING IN WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING THERE. ANYWAY, BASICALLY, THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE HERE THAT HAVE MORE TO SAY ABOUT IT, SO I'LL RELEASE MY TIME NOW. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. ROB WILSON. >> SOMEONE DROPPED THEIR PEN. GOOD AFTERNOON. MAYOR AND COUNCIL. MY NAME IS ROB WILSON. I'M THE OWNER OF TIMBERLINE FIREARMS AND I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS EVENING OR THIS AFTERNOON. I GOT A GREAT LIST OF PREPARED REMARKS HERE BUT A COUPLE OF THINGS I NEED TO CLEAR UP RIGHT OFF THE BAT. IT'S MY FAULT THAT WE'RE HERE. IT WAS MY ADVERTISEMENT THAT WAS REJECTED EARLIER THIS YEAR BASED ON THE GROUNDS THAT IT WAS VIOLENT AND I DISAGREE WITH THAT. I ASKED TO APPEAL IT. THERE WAS NO PROCESS. I HOPE THIS NEW POLICY WILL ADDRESS THOSE FAILURES. THE PRESENTATION WE JUST GOT FROM MR. HANSON IDENTIFIED FIVE GOALS THAT THE ADVERTISING POLICY HERE IN FLAGSTAFF HAS AS ITS, IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE. WE SUPPORT ALL FIVE OF THOSE GOALS. THE ACTIVITIES THAT WE DO IN OUR FACILITIES, SPORT, ALL FIVE OF THOSE GOALS. IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE TO TARGET A SPECIFIC INDUSTRY THAT ACTUALLY MEETS THE GOALS THAT THE STATED GOALS OF THE POLICY AND TRY TO EXCLUDE THEM FROM THAT. THE FLAGSTAFF ONLY INDOOR SHOOTING RANGE, WE TRAIN NOT JUST YOUR FRIENDS, YOUR NEIGHBORS BUT ALSO OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES, BOTH LOCAL, STATE AND FEDERAL. WE'RE ONE OF THE MOST HIGHLY REGULATED BUSINESSES IN THE STATE OR IN THE COUNTRY. I HAVE TO HAVE A FEDERAL LICENSE TO DO MY BUSINESS. OUR MOTTO IS SAFE AND RESPONSIBLE FIREARM OWNERSHIP. WE'RE PROUD OF OUR SAFETY RECORD OF 100% SAFETY RECORD WITH OUR CUSTOMERS. SADLY, SOME OF OUR CUSTOMERS ARE PEOPLE LIKE THE SINGLE MOTHER WHO JUST LEFT THE JUDGE'S CHAMBERS. SHE HAS AN ORDER OF PROTECTION BUT KNOWS THAT THE ABUSER IS NOT GOING TO HONOR THAT. SHE HAS TO COME SOMEPLACE WHERE SHE CAN GET TRAINING AND WHERE SHE CAN GET ARMED TO BE ABLE TO DEFEND HERSELF AND HER CHILDREN. WE'RE THE ONLY PLACE THAT DOES THAT. IF SHE DIDN'T KNOW WE EXISTED, WHAT WOULD THE RESULT BE? ENOUGH ABOUT US. I'M HERE TONIGHT REALLY TO TRY TO SAVE YOU GUYS SOME TROUBLE. NO ONE WANTS TO SUE ANYBODY, I ESPECIALLY. BUT VIOLATING OUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND ARIZONA STATE LAW WITH SOMETHING THAT'S SPECIFICALLY TARGETS AND IN THIS CASE, A SPECIFIC BUSINESS BECAUSE I'M THE ONLY ONE IN TOWN THAT RENTS FIREARMS. I'M TARGETED SPECIFICALLY WITH THE LANGUAGE THAT'S IN THIS POLICY. IS GOING TO GENERATE A LAWSUIT IF THAT'S WHAT ENDS UP BEING PASSED AS POLICY HERE. I APPRECIATE THE TIME, I APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORT. THERE'S STILL PROBLEMS WITH THIS POLICY. THINGS LIKE FALSE OR DECEPTIVE INFORMATION CAN BE PRESENTED. WHO'S THE ARBITER OF FALSE AND DECEPTIVE? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WHO GETS TO DECIDE? THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A FIRST AMENDMENT. IT'S A FREEDOM THAT WE ALL SHOULD RELISH. I ASKED YOU ALL TONIGHT NOT TO STEP ALL OVER. THANK YOU. UNLESS THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS. >> COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS HAS A QUESTION. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR. MR. WILSON, I DID VIEW YOUR SUBMITTED AD AND I'M WONDERING BECAUSE THIS IS JUST A DISCUSSION. WE JUST BARELY SAW THESE NEW POLICY CHANGES AND STUFF, SO WE'RE DISCUSSING IT AND SEEKING A GOOD BALANCE. IS THERE A COMPROMISE? I DON'T KNOW IF I SHOULD USE THE WORD COMPROMISE, BUT SOME GUNS, WE HAVE A NATIONAL FOCUS ON CERTAIN GUNS AND DIFFERENT NEWS COMES UP. IS THERE A COMPROMISE LEVEL OF ADVERTISING THAT YOU WOULD ACCEPT BEING ABLE TO DO DISTILLED NOTIFY HUNTERS? WE'RE BIG HUNTING COMMUNITY ALL OF NORTHERN ARIZONA. YOU MENTIONED PRACTICE SHOOTING, SKEET SHOOTING IS AN OLYMPIC HOBBY. IS THERE A LEVEL OF, INSTEAD OF ALL OR NOTHING THAT YOU [01:45:04] WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE IN BEING ABLE TO PROMOTE YOUR BUSINESS, TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT YOU EXIST. YOU MENTIONED A LOT OF PEOPLE COME FROM OUT OF THE COUNTRY, THAT WOULD SATISFY THAT WITHOUT IT BEING ALL OR NOTHING. IS THERE ANYTHING YOU'VE THOUGHT OF TO SAY, WELL, IF I COULD JUST DO THIS, THIS WOULD HELP ME PROMOTE MY BUSINESS AND STILL SATISFY SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WE HAVE ABOUT SHOWING GUN USE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. >> THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION ON COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS, IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION. IF THIS WERE ABOUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT OR ABOUT FIREARMS IN PARTICULAR, THEN I MIGHT BE ABLE TO ANSWER THAT. BUT IN MY OPINION, IT'S NOT. THIS IS A FIRST AMENDMENT QUESTION. IT'S PURELY A FREEDOM OF SPEECH ISSUE AND WHETHER SOMEONE IS OR IS NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK FREELY. IT ISN'T A MATTER OF WHAT TYPE OF FIREARM I MAY OR MAY NOT INCLUDE IN AN ADVERTISEMENT, IN MY OPINION. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> MICHAEL INFANZON. >> THANK YOU. MAYOR, CITY COUNCIL. MY NAME IS MICHAEL INFANZON AND I AM A LOBBYIST. I'M JUST THROW THAT OUT THERE. I REPRESENT THE ARIZONA CITIZENS SUSPENSE LEAGUE AND THE ARIZONA FIREARMS INDUSTRY TRADE ASSOCIATION. ACCDL HAS OVER 25,000 MEMBERS STATEWIDE. FIREARMS INDUSTRY IS A MULTI-BILLION-DOLLAR INDUSTRY IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA. OUR ARGUMENTS TODAY IS BASED ON A FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE OF FREE SPEECH PROTECTION FROM THE ARIZONA CONSTITUTION, NOT OUR FIRST AMENDMENT BUT THE ARIZONA CONSTITUTION, WHICH INCLUDES THE SCOPE OF COMMERCIAL SPEECH, WHICH IN TURN EXTENDS TO THE AREA OF ADVERTISING. THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF, REMOVAL OF FIREARMS FACILITY ADVERTISING FROM THE AIRPORT IS NOT ONLY AN INFRINGEMENT ON THIS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT BUT IT ALSO CONTRIBUTIONS ARIZONA STATE LAWS. THE ARIZONA CONSTITUTION, ARTICLE 2, SECTION 6, ALSO KNOWN AS THE FREE SPEECH CLAUSE, STATES EVERY PERSON MAY FREELY SPEAK, WRITE AND PUBLISH ON ALL SUBJECTS. BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ABUSE OF THAT RIGHT. THE COURTS HAVE INTERPRETED THIS CLAUSE IS PROTECTING THE RIGHT TO ADVERTISE LAWFUL PRODUCTS OR SERVICES UNLESS SUCH ADVERTISING CAN BE DEMONSTRATED AS AN ABUSE OF THAT RIGHT, WHICH OBVIOUSLY THE ADVERTISING OF TRAINING FOR THE EXERCISE OF THE ARTICLE 2, SECTION 26, THE INDIVIDUAL TO BEAR ARMS IN DEFENSE OF THEMSELVES IS NOT ABUSE. THIS IS STRICTLY A FREE SPEECH ISSUE. ARIZONA STATUTE RESTRICTS THE AUTHORITY OF MUNICIPALITIES TO OUTRIGHT BAN ADVERTISING FOR ILLEGAL BUSINESS WITHIN THEIR BOUNDARIES ARE ALSO. WHILE THEY CAN REGULATE THE SIZE, LIGHTING, AND SPACING OF ADVERTISING SIGNS UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, THEY CAN NOT ENFORCE A COMPLETE BAN UNLESS THEY CAN DEMONSTRATE THAT SUCH ADVERTISING CONSTITUTE A THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY. SINCE ARIZONA LAW ALLOWS FOR THE LAWFUL POSSESSION AND USE OF FIREARMS IN MANY CIRCUMSTANCES WITH CERTAIN RESTRICTIONS, THIS SUGGESTS FIREARMS ARE NOT INHERENTLY CONSIDERED A PUBLIC HEALTH THREAT. IN FACT, A CITY OR TOWN, ACCORDING TO STATUTE, MAY NOT ENACT FIREARM REGULATIONS MORE PROHIBITIVE THAN STATE LAW. REFERENCING THE CASE OF CORE AND V COTTON WHICH LEND SUPPORT TO OUR POSITION IN THIS CASE, THE COURT OF APPEALS, ARIZONA'S DIVISION 1 HELD THAT THE REFUSAL OF THE CITY OF PHOENIX TO ALLOW GUN SAFETY AND TRAINING ADVERTISEMENTS, WHILE PERMITTING OTHER TYPES OF COMMERCIAL AND PUBLIC SAFETY AS WAS A VIOLATION OF THE FIRST AMENDMENTS PROTECTION OF COMMERCIAL SPEECH. THIS POLICY CHANGE IMPOSES A VIEWPOINT BASED RESTRICTION ON SPEECH IN A PUBLIC FORUM WHICH IMPLICITLY VIOLATES NOT ONLY OUR FIRST AMENDMENT BUT ARTICLE 2, SECTION 6 OF OUR STATE CONSTITUTION. WE RESPECTFULLY URGE THE CITY COUNCIL TO UPLOAD THE FREE SPEECH PROTECTIONS OF ARIZONA CITIZENS, LEGAL FLAGSTAFF BUSINESSES, AND DEEM THIS PROPOSED BAN OF ANY FIREARMS RESTRICT FACILITY ADVERTISEMENT AS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. THIS PROTECTION IS ENHANCING THE QUALITY OF LIFE, WHICH IS I HEARD, WAS THE CITY'S MISSION. THANK YOU. I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. >> THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS? THANK YOU. CHRIS MICHAELS. >> HELLO, EVERYBODY. MY NAME IS CHRIS MICHAELS. I'VE LIVED IN FLAGSTAFF SINCE 1980. [01:50:03] I RAISED MY FAMILY HERE, WORKED, RETIRED, WAS A FOSTER PARENT AND DROVE A SCHOOL BUS FOR OPUSD FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS. THEN I HAD A STROKE AND NOW I'M DISABLED. I CAN NO LONGER DO MANY OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES THAT I'VE ENJOYED DURING MY LIFE HERE. I CAN STILL SAFELY GO SHOOTING. THE CHANGES TO SECTION F OF THE ADVERTISING POLICY COULD MAKE THEM MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR ME. MOST PEOPLE I KNOW WHO ENJOY SHOOTING, WOULD PREFER TO BE SHOOTING OUTSIDE. THE FLAGSTAFF AREA HAS A LOT OF PUBLIC LAND WHERE THAT CAN BE DONE. BUT WHEN THE WEATHER IS BAD OR THE FOREST IS CLOSED WITH FIRE RESTRICTIONS, I CAN GO TO THE INDOOR RANGE. I DO GO TO THE INDOOR RANGE AT TIMBERLINE FIREARMS. SINCE THE LOCALS WOULD PREFER SHOOTING OUTSIDE, I IMAGINE TIMBERLINE IS DEPENDENT ON TOURISTS TO STAY IN BUSINESS. TO ATTRACT TOURISTS, I'M SURE THEY MUST ADVERTISE AND THE AIRPORT WOULD BE A GREAT PLACE TO ADVERTISE. TIMBERLINE IS A SAFE PLACE TO SHOOT, WITH RANGE SAFETY OFFICERS AND MANDATORY TRAINING FOR NEW SHOOTERS. NOT ALL RANGES DO THAT. TIMBERLINE OFFERS TRAINING CLASSES. BEFORE THEY WERE HERE, I WOULD HAVE TO TRAVEL AT LEAST TO THE VALLEY MAYBE FURTHER FOR QUALITY TRAINING. TRAVELING IS MORE DIFFICULT FOR ME THESE DAYS. IT'S GREAT TO HAVE TIMBERLINE WHEN I NEED THEM. SECTION F OF THE ADVERTISING POLICY CURRENTLY PROHIBITS ADVERTISING THAT PROMOTES ANY KIND OF VIOLENCE. THE PROPOSED CHANGES REPLACED THAT WITH PART G, PROHIBITING ADVERTISING FIREARMS AND PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING TO DO WITH FIREARMS, AND PART H, NO THREATS OF HARM TO PEOPLE. I SEE TWO PROBLEMS WITH THIS CHANGE. FIRST, VIOLENCE AND FIREARMS ARE NOT EQUIVALENT. VIOLENCE IS VIOLENCE WHETHER IT'S COMMITTED WITH A FIREARM, A KNIFE, A BASEBALL BAT, OR A CANE. ALL OF THOSE HAVE SAFE, NON-VIOLENT USES. NO LEGITIMATE BUSINESS IS GOING TO PROMOTE VIOLENCE. BUT JUST ALLOWING VIOLENCE IN THE POLICY MAKES SENSE TO ME TO COVER OTHER SITUATIONS. NOT ALLOWING FIREARM ADVERTISING WILL NOT MAKE ANYONE SAFER. THE SECOND PROBLEM WE SEE IS THAT TIMBERLINE AND OTHERS WILL BE PREVENTED FROM ADVERTISING THEIR LEGAL SAFE SERVICES TO TOURIST AND MAY GO OUT OF BUSINESS. THIS WILL HURT LOCAL RESIDENTS LIKE ME. IF TIMBERLINE IS NOT HERE WHERE WILL PEOPLE GO TO WHEN THE WEATHER IS BAD OR THE FOREST IS CLOSED? WHEREVER IT IS, I'M SURE IT WON'T MAKE OUR COMMUNITIES SAFER THAN GOING TO TIMBERLINE. THE CHANGE TO SECTION F NEEDS TO BE RECONSIDERED. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. DEVIN CHAMPAGNE. >> GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYBODY. THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO HAVE TIME TO TALK TO YOU. MY NAME IS DEVIN CHAMPAGNE. I WAS BORN AND RAISED HERE IN FLAGSTAFF, GOING ON 28 YEARS. I'VE BEEN INVOLVED INTO A COMMUNITY SINCE I CAN REMEMBER WHETHER IT'D BE HUNTING, RECREATION, OR MOST IMPORTANTLY, SELF-DEFENSE. I HAVE BEEN TO THE TIMBERLINE FACILITY AND I WILL JUST SAY IT'S A BEAUTIFUL FACILITY, VERY PROFESSIONAL STAFF, AND HAD I NOT GONE THERE, I DON'T THINK I'D HAVE THE TRAINING I HAVE WITH MYSELF CURRENTLY. I CARRY EVERYWHERE I GO. I'M A REAL ADVOCATE FOR SELF-DEFENSE, BUT I DO BELIEVE THIS IS A FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUE. I WILL JUST SAY I HELP HOST LOCAL GUN SHOWS WHERE WE DO ADVERTISE WITHIN THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF. I JUST WANT TO ASK WITH THIS, I BELIEVE IT'S PART F, WHERE'S IT GOING TO STOP? YES, NOW IT'S ADVERTISING AT CERTAIN PLACES, BUT WILL IT EVENTUALLY BE ADVERTISING WITHIN CITY LIMITS, ADVERTISING AT ALL? WHO KNOWS? I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHERE'S IT GOING TO STOP? IF WE GET AHEAD OF IT NOW AND WE TALK TO YOU GUYS AND GET IT OUT IN THE OPEN, [01:55:01] MAYBE WE CAN COME TO SOME AGREEMENT. I WILL SAY, BEING INTO A COMMUNITY, WE'RE ALREADY DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, WHETHER IT'D BE POINT-OF-SALE SYSTEMS, CREDIT CARD SERVICES. WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH A LOT OF STUFF REGARDING LEGAL ACTIVITIES. I'M AN NFFL HOLDER, I ABIDE BY FEDERAL AND STATE LAWS WHEN IT COMES TO FIREARMS. I'VE BEEN SELLING FIREARMS SINCE 2011, AND I WILL SAY I'VE HAD A HUGE INFLUX OF PEOPLE WANTING TO CARRY AND EXERCISE THEIR RIGHT TO SELF-DEFENSE. I WILL SAY WITHOUT FACILITIES LIKE TIMBERLINE, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO GET ANY TRAINING WHERE THEY CAN FEEL SAFE THAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY CARRY A FIREARM AND AND BE PROFICIENT WITH IT AND NOT HAVE ANY ISSUES OR LIABILITIES. I WILL SAY IF THERE'S NO PLACE ANYBODY CAN TRAIN HERE, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE MORE LIABILITY WITH PEOPLE CARRYING. ANYBODY IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA, IF YOU'RE NOT A FELON, YOU CAN CARRY OPEN OR CONCEALED AND IF YOU HAVE NO TRAINING, I SEEN THAT AS A LIABILITY. IF WE HAVE NO PLACES TO DO THAT TRAINING, THAT'S GOING TO CREATE MORE LIABILITY FOR EVERYBODY. I WILL YIELD THE REST OF MY TIME UNLESS THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS. >> THANK YOU. DENNIS CHAMPAGNE. >> WELL, THANKS FOR HAVING ME COME DOWN. I APPRECIATE IT. I JUST WANT TO SAY EVERYTHING I'VE SEEN HERE TODAY WAS ABOUT COMMUNITY AND WHAT WE DO. I JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU MY STORY OF WHO I AM, JUST LIKE THE GENTLEMAN, JUST DID HIS. MY NAME IS DENNIS CHAMPAGNE. I WAS BORN IN WURZBURG, GERMANY. MY DAD RETIRED AT FORT HUACHUCA. I TRANSFERRED UP HERE IN 1984 TO RUN THE EL RANCHO STORE. I'VE RAISED MY BOY FOR 27 YEARS HERE. I DON'T OWN ONE, I OWN TWO BUSINESSES BOTH, I LIKE TO ADVERTISE WITH FLAGSTAFF, ARIZONA. THE THING IS, MY FIRST BUSINESS IS COKING GAME PROCESSING, OPENED IN 1999. IT'S HUNTING, AND THAT'S WHAT WE DO. MY SECOND BUSINESS IS ARIZONA COLLECTIBLES AND FIREARMS, WHICH I HOLD A FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSE. LAST SINCE JANUARY, I HAVE DONE OVER 1,000 BACKGROUND CHECKS. OUT OF THOSE 1,000 BACKGROUND CHECKS THAT I'VE SUPPLY, I'VE HAD FIVE DENIES. I WILL DO BY THOUSAND BACKGROUND CHECKS IF ANYBODY IS NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE A FIREARM. THAT'S WHAT THIS COMES DOWN TO. I ALSO HOST THE LOCAL GUN SHOW IN TOWN. SINCE 2004, I HAVE SUPPORTED NOT ONLY THE LOCAL VETERANS HERE FOR TAT HILL MUSEUM, BUT ALSO THE NORTHERN ARIZONA FOOD BANK, WHICH I HAVE SUPPLIED WITH WELL OVER £125,000 OF DONATED ELK, DEER, AND BUFFALO MEAT. NOW, BEING HERE FOR 40 YEARS, I'M SITTING HERE GOING, WHOA, THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF DOESN'T WANT ME ANYMORE. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO LET ME ADVERTISE OR SAFE FIREARM, WHICH BY THE WAY, IF I COULD CHANGE MY GUN SHOW TO A TOOL SHOW, I WOULD DO IT. IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT A FIREARM AND YOU DON'T KNOW A MAGAZINE FROM A CLIP, THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE HERE THAT LOVE AND THAT'S THEIR BUSINESS, THAT COULD EXPLAIN IT TO YOU. LIZ ARCHULETA, THERE WAS GOING TO BE A PROTEST DOWN AT MY LOCAL GUN SHOW SO SHE ASKED ME TO COME IN, AND AT THAT TIME IT WAS THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY TO MEET WITH EVERYBODY THAT WANTED TO PROTEST THE GUN SHOW. THEIR NUMBER 1 THING WAS WE DON'T WANT 30 ROUND MAGAZINES. I HAD THE HOLDUP AND I WENT INTO THIS MEETING AND I BROUGHT MY OLD 94 WINCHESTER AND I BROUGHT AN AR-15. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, IN 1873, 15 ROUNDS IN 15 SECONDS OUT OF A LEVER ACTION. BUT WHAT EVERYBODY SEES IS THE AR-15. IT'S LEGAL. IT HAS BEEN AND I'M A FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSE TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT FIREARM DOESN'T GET IN THE WRONG HANDS. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT IF FLAGSTAFF HAS SOMETHING TO SAY WITH MY ADVERTISING OR ANYTHING TO THAT EFFECT, I HAVE DONE EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO ALL THE LAWS. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. JIM TIMNEY. >> GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. [02:00:02] THE SUBJECT HERE IS REALLY THE ADVERTISING POLICY. IT REMINDS ME OF, WHAT CAN I SAY, I HATE THE WORD BIGOTRY. REMOVE THE WORD FIREARMS FROM THAT POLICY, AND I THINK YOU'LL HAVE A VERY SOLID WORKABLE POLICY. THE FIREARM IS NOT THE ISSUE. THE POLICY RESTRICTS A LOCAL BUSINESS THAT IS DESTINED TO TREAT A SPORT WITH SAFETY. THEY WANT TO TRAIN THE USERS OF THAT SPORT, THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE A PROPER FIREARM IS FITTED TO THE INDIVIDUAL. NOT ALL FIREARMS FIT ALL INDIVIDUALS. TO BE REALLY SAFE, YOU NEED A FIREARM THAT FITS YOU, THAT FITS YOUR HAND OR YOUR SHOULDER AND THEY WILL FIT THAT. THEY'RE CONCERNED WITH SAFETY. THEY NEED TO ADVERTISE THAT. PEOPLE COME TO THIS STATE TO TRY TO SHOOT GUNS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T DO IT WHERE THEY LIVE. I HAVE RUN INTO THAT PERSONALLY WITH VISITORS FROM ITALY, THEY CAME HERE AND WANTED TO SHOOT A GUN. I DON'T KNOW WHAT URGED THAT, MAYBE IT WAS AN AD IN THE AIRPORT, I DON'T KNOW, OR REDIRECTED INTO TIMBERLINE TO SHOOT INDOORS UNDER SUPERVISION OR TRAINED INSTRUCTORS. THE ISSUE HERE IS LAWFUL SAFE-RELATED SAFETY CONCENTRATED BUSINESS THAT IS BEING DENIED ADVERTISING RIGHTS. I THINK IT IS WRONG TO JUST TARGET ANY PARTICULAR SPORT, SHOOTING IS A SPORT. WHETHER YOU'RE TRYING TO PUNCH ONE HOLE OF 200 YARDS OR WHETHER YOU'RE TRYING TO TAKE DOWN THE WORLD'S LARGEST ELK, IT IS A SPORT AND IT NEEDS TO BE TREATED AS SUCH AND TIMBERLINE FIREARMS AND ANY OTHER FIREARMS DEALER IN THIS COMMUNITY STRESSES SAFETY ABOVE ALL OTHERS. I THINK IT IS WRONG TO PICK FIREARMS OUT OF THE SPORTING CROWD AND PUT THAT IN A POLICY THAT RESTRICTS THE ADVERTISING. THEY'RE NOT THERE TO ADVERTISE VIOLENCE, THEY'RE NOT THERE TO ADVERTISE DISCORD, THEY'RE ADVERTISING A SAFE BUSINESS THAT WANTS TO REMAIN IN BUSINESS, THAT WANTS TO TREAT THEIR CUSTOMERS WELL AND WANTS TO TREAT NEW CUSTOMERS AND TEACH THEM THE SAFE OPERATION OF A FIREARM. THAT'S WHAT IT'S ABOUT. IS A LOCAL BUSINESS, LEGAL BUSINESS, TRYING TO DO BUSINESS, AND TRYING TO ADVERTISE. REMOVE THE WORD FIREARMS AND I THINK WE'D BE OKAY WITH THE POLICY BECAUSE NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND IS GOING TO ADVERTISE VIOLENCE. MAYBE A SOCCER TEAM, PERHAPS, IN EUROPE, BUT CERTAINLY NOT IN THIS COUNTRY. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. THAT WAS OUR LAST COMMENTER AND I DON'T SEE ANYTHING ONLINE. SO COUNCIL, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON ANY OF THESE POINTS? I'LL JUST REMIND US ALL THAT WE ARE JUST HERE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION, THERE ARE NO DECISIONS BEING MADE. QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR. I STRUGGLE WITH THIS BECAUSE IT ISN'T BLACK AND WHITE. WE HAVE OTHER ATTRACTIONS AND RECREATIONS IN TOWN THAT MAYBE I WOULDN'T DEEM AS BEING VIOLENT, BUT IF IT'S A LASER BEAM INSTEAD OF A BULLET BUT IT'S IN GAME, I'M JUST STRUGGLING A LITTLE BIT. I KNOW MR. WILSON STATED THAT HE WOULDN'T BE COMFORTABLE WITH ANY KIND OF COMPROMISE, BUT I'M JUST WONDERING IF THERE'S A WAY THAT WE COULD NOT BE ALL OR NOTHING BUT PRESERVE AND PROTECT. OUR FOCUS AT THE AIRPORT IS CREATE A FRIENDLY AND WELCOMING ENVIRONMENT FOR EVERYONE AND NOT EVERYONE LOOKS AT AN AR-15 AS A FRIENDLY ENVIRONMENT, I WOULD GUESS. BUT I THINK WE CAN STILL ALLOW BUSINESSES TO ADVERTISE AND ATTRACT CONSUMERS TO THEIR SHOP BUT STILL HAVE SOME, [02:05:03] AND MAYBE LEGALLY WE CAN'T AND MAYBE IT HAS TO BE ALL OR NOTHING, BUT I JUST FEEL LIKE MAYBE WE COULD COME UP WITH A COUPLE OF IDEAS TO SAY, MAYBE TIGHTEN UP THE RESTRICTION TO SAY, JUST NOT DEPICTING, I'M JUST THROWING THIS OUT THERE, A GUN BEING FIRED OR AN AX BEING THROWN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT BE ABLE TO PROMOTE SAFETY CLASSES, INDOOR RANGES ACTIVITY, TRAINING. IT JUST SEEMS LIKE WE CAN STILL COME TO THE PROTECTION THAT WE WANT TO COME TO, TO VISITORS THAT ARE COMING INTO FLAGSTAFF, AND STILL LET PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THESE BUSINESSES THAT THEY MAY NOT KNOW EXIST IN FLAGSTAFF. I JUST FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE THINKING THAT WE JUST WOULD TURN OFF A WHOLE INDUSTRY AND I KNOW IT'S VERY CONTROVERSIAL MAYBE IN SOME PEOPLE'S CIRCLES, BUT I THINK THAT THERE'S STILL SOMETHING WE CAN DO, SOMETHING THAT WE CAN ALLOW TO ALLOW A BUSINESS TO PROMOTE THEMSELVES TO KEEP THEMSELVES MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND NOT JUST TOTALLY CUT THEM OUT OF THE WHOLE ADVERTISING. I KNOW THAT THERE ARE SOME, THE GENTLEMAN OVER THERE STATED SOME STATUTES AND LAWS AND I KNOW THERE'S DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS OF THAT, BUT I STILL THINK WE CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE PALATABLE. >> MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS, I JUST WANT TO GIVE A LITTLE BACKGROUND. WHEN WE WERE APPROACHED BY TIMBERLINE FIREARMS TO DO THEIR ADVERTISING VIDEO, WE WERE OKAY WITH THEM ADVERTISING AT THE AIRPORT AT THE TIME, BUT WE ASKED THEM TO CHANGE IT. THE OWNER DID NOT WANT TO CHANGE IT AND SO THAT BECOMES AN APPEAL PROCESS. THE APPEAL PROCESS THEN GOES TO THE CITY MANAGER AND THEN WE GOT OUR DEPUTY CITY ATTORNEY INVOLVED, AND THEN IT BECOMES CREATING A POLICY. STAFF, THEY DON'T CREATE POLICIES, COUNSEL CREATES POLICY SO THAT'S WHY IT'S HERE IN FRONT OF YOU TONIGHT. IT CAN BE WHATEVER YOU WANT IT TO BE, AND OUR DEPUTY CITY ATTORNEY WILL KEEP YOU ON THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW, BUT WHEN I BROUGHT FORWARD THAT THESE ARE JUST IDEAS, WE BROUGHT YOU IDEAS TO SHOW YOU, BECAUSE I KNEW WHAT YOU'D ASKED ME, WHAT ARE OTHER AIRPORTS DOING? WHAT ARE OTHER RECREATION FACILITIES DOING? THAT'S WHAT I PRESENTED TO YOU. THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE DOING. DOESN'T MEAN IT NEEDS TO BE WHAT YOU'RE DOING, I'M JUST WANTING YOU TO SEE WHAT OTHERS ARE DOING BECAUSE THAT'S THE FIRST QUESTION I'M ALWAYS ASKED. ONE OF THE THINGS WE WERE TRYING TO DO ALSO IS TO CREATE A CITYWIDE POLICY, NOT JUST ONE FOR THE AIRPORT. WHATEVER YOU ALLOW AT THE AIRPORT, YOU WOULD PROBABLY BE ALLOWING AT A RECREATIONAL FACILITY LIKE THE JAY LIVELY. WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT, WE CAN HAVE THOSE EXCEPTIONS BECAUSE WE JUST ASKED FOR ONE WITH THE BREWERIES AT THE AIRPORT. DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? THIS IS YOUR POLICY, YOU CAN MAKE THE TWEAKS THAT YOU LIKE AND WE'RE HERE TO SERVE YOU. WE'RE HERE TO SERVE THE PUBLIC AND ONCE WE GET THIS DIALED IN A LITTLE BIT, WE'LL BRING BACK FOR A FINAL VERSION AND THEN WE WILL START USING IT. I DON'T MEAN TO PUT YOU ALL ON THE HOOK, BUT YOU'RE THE POLICYMAKERS AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE. VICE MAYOR AND THEN COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY. >> THANK YOU MAYOR. SORRY I CAN'T BE THERE WITH YOU IN PERSON TONIGHT EVERYBODY. I REALLY APPRECIATE THE DIALOGUE THAT'S HAPPENED ALREADY. THANK YOU TO THE PUBLIC COMMENTERS. SOME UNFAMILIAR FACES, NEW FACES COMING FORWARD TO CITY HALL TODAY AND IT'S GREAT TO HEAR FROM YOU. TO THE OWNER OF TIMBERLINE, WE'VE MET BEFORE UNDER DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES A NUMBER OF TIMES. I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I BELIEVE YOU HAVE A VERY REPUTABLE BUSINESS AND REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. YOU HAVE AN OUTSTANDING REPUTATION YOURSELF AND I KNOW THAT YOU ARE A VERY RESPONSIBLE ADVOCATE FOR ALL THINGS SECOND AMENDMENT HERE IN FLAGSTAFF. WHAT I WANTED TO START OFF SAYING IS I JUST REALLY APPRECIATE THAT WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION IN PUBLIC. I THINK A LOT OF CREDIT GOES TO OUR STAFF AND LEADERSHIP. HEIDI AND OTHER PEOPLE AT THE AIRPORT WHO NOTICED THAT THIS COULD BE A CONTENTIOUS CONCERN AND FLAGGED IT TO RUN IT UP THE FLAG POLE AND THAT'S ALL THAT'S HAPPENING HERE. WE'RE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION IN THE APPROPRIATE VENUE. [02:10:02] WHEN STAFF COMES TO US WITH IDEAS AND WORK SESSIONS, THEY NEVER COME TO US WITH A BLANK PAGE. THEY ALWAYS HAVE SUGGESTIONS IN MIND AND THEY ALSO ALWAYS DONE THEIR RESEARCH AND THEY VETTED THEIR IDEAS AND THAT GIVES US A TEMPLATE TO WORK WITH. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR SEVEN DIFFERENTLY MINDED PEOPLE TO COME TO A CONSENSUS WHEN WE'RE ALL STARING AT A BLANK PAGE TO BEGIN WITH. SO I JUST APPRECIATE THE PROCESS HERE. I APPRECIATE THE CORDIAL DIALOGUE THAT'S GOING ON, I APPRECIATE THE CONCERNS AND THE ADVOCACY OF THE FOLKS IN THE AUDIENCE AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE DISCUSSION. I AM USUALLY OF THE OPINION THAT WE SHOULD DO AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE TINKERING WHEN IT COMES TO FIXING THINGS. YOU NEVER WANT TO BREAK SOMETHING WORSE THAN IT WAS ALREADY BEFORE HAND AND SO PROBABLY MY INSTINCT ON THIS WILL BE TO TAKE AS LIGHT OF A TOUCH AS POSSIBLE TO IT. BUT AGAIN, I THINK IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING AND IT'S DEMONSTRABLY SO THAT THIS WAS A TOPIC WITH CERTAIN SENSITIVITIES AND THE RIGHT THING TO DO IS FOR OUR CITY APPARATUS TO PUT THIS BEFORE COUNCIL FOR THE APPROPRIATE PUBLIC CONVERSATION. I'LL LEAVE IT THERE FOR NOW LOOKING FORWARD TO OTHER PEOPLE'S THOUGHTS AND IDEAS. >> COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY. >> WELL, THANK YOU MAYOR. I APPRECIATE IT. THE DRAFT ORDINANCE THAT HEIDI GAVE TO US. THANK YOU FOR THE GRIN, ADDRESSES MANY ISSUES. DRUGS, PORNOGRAPHY, FIREARMS. THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE TONIGHT THAT ARE ASKING US TO SINGLE OUT FIREARMS TO BE EXEMPT FROM SUCH REGULATIONS. NONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE WHAT MASSAGE PARLORS, OR SELL MARIJUANA, OR SELL CIGARETTES OR WHATEVER. NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE HERE. SO THEY'RE NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT FREE SPEECH ISSUES. SO I DON'T WANT TO SINGLE OUT ONE INDUSTRY TO BE EXEMPT FROM THIS KIND OF REGULATION. THE OTHER THING TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT THIS WILL HAVE NO EFFECT ON OPERATION OF ANY OF THESE BUSINESSES. WHAT THEY CAN DO OR NOT DO AS DETERMINED BY STATE LAW AND BY OTHER REGULATIONS NOT AFFECTED BY THIS POLICY THAT FOR THE AIRPORT AND FOR OUR SPORTS FACILITIES ETC. THE OTHER THING IS THAT THESE REGULATIONS ON ADVERTISING ONLY APPLY TO CITY PROPERTY. THEY HAVE NO IMPACT ON FREE SPEECH IN GENERAL. WHERE IS JIM MCCARTHY ON THIS? I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THE STAFF DRAFT. HOWEVER, I DO THINK WE, LIKE ON FIREARMS OR ANY OF THESE THINGS, NEED TO ADDRESS THE PROS AND CONS. I MEAN, IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO ALLOW ADVERTISING ON GO TO A GUN FACILITY, THEN WE SHOULDN'T ALLOW SOMEONE TO TAKE THE OPPOSITE POSITION AND PUT THAT ON AN AD EITHER BECAUSE THAT WOULDN'T BE FAIR. WE NEED TO TO BE FAIR TO EVERYBODY. SO THE OTHER THING IS, I THINK YOU WERE SUGGESTING TAKING THE WORD VIOLENCE OUT OF THE OLD REGULATION. I WOULD SUGGEST KEEPING THAT WORD IN THERE BECAUSE THERE MAY BE OTHER TYPES OF VIOLENCE THAT WE HAVEN'T EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT TONIGHT, THAT WE MIGHT WANT TO NOT HAVE ON OUR ADDS AT THE AIRPORT OR SPORTS FACILITIES. THERE'S PEOPLE OF ALL AGES GO TO THESE FACILITIES AND WE DON'T WANT VIOLENCE TO BE PROMOTED OR EVEN REFERRED TO IN ANY WAY, THAT ISN'T THE MESSAGE. WHEN PEOPLE COME TO FLAG STAFF, WE WANT THEM TO LEARN ABOUT THE MOUNTAINS AND WHATEVER, BUT NOT ABOUT VIOLENCE. SO THAT'S A SUMMARY WHERE I'M AT AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE NEXT DRAFT. THANK YOU. >> ANY ADDITIONAL COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT. SEEING NONE, DO WE HAVE AN ESTIMATE OF WHEN COUNCIL MIGHT DISCUSS THIS AGAIN. >> MAYOR, I'M GOING TO BE REALLY HONEST WITH YOU ALL. I HAVEN'T GOT ENOUGH TO BRING YOU BACK THE FINAL DRAFT. [02:15:02] I MEAN, I'D LIKE TO ACTUALLY GO THROUGH THESE SLIDES REAL QUICK WITH YOU. >> SURE THING. >> I'D LIKE A LITTLE BIT MORE COMMENT BECAUSE I DON T KNOW THAT I'M HEARING A MAJORITY AND I WOULD BE BRINGING YOU BACK A LITTLE BIT OF THE SAME. SO AGAIN, I HATE TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT, BUT WE'RE CREATING A POLICY AND IF YOU NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME ON THAT, THAT'S FINE. BUT I THINK THAT THERE'S A COUPLE OF AREAS THAT I DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION. >> COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS. >> THANK YOU FOR BRINGING IN POLICY TO US AND SO YOU WANT MORE DIRECTION OR YOU WANT MORE INFORMATION FROM US, YOU WANT TO HEAR FROM ALL OF US? >> I WOULD DEFINITELY LIKE TO AND THEN TO MAKE IT A LOT EASIER, NOW THAT WE'VE HEARD PUBLIC COMMENT, WE COULD DIVE INTO THE SLIDES A LITTLE BIT MORE. I DON'T WANT TO KEEP YOU HERE ALL NIGHT, BUT I THINK WE COULD GET THROUGH THIS A LITTLE BIT BETTER AND THEN I THINK I COULD END IT WITH COMING BACK AGAIN, BUT AT THIS POINT I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BRING YOU ANYTHING BACK THAT WAS SOLID. >> OKAY. JUST SO THAT YOU HEAR FROM ME LOUD AND CLEAR, I HEARD YOU THIS AFTERNOON. I HEAR YOU TONIGHT. AND I'M IN FULL AGREEMENT WITH WHAT YOU'RE DOING. >> THANK YOU I APPRECIATE THAT. >> WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IN YOUR SLIDES. I DON'T NEED ANYMORE ADDITIONAL TIME. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, I'M JUST GOING TO GO THROUGH THIS SLIDE REAL QUICK MAYOR, AND THEN IF THERE'S ANY OTHER COMMENTS, IF I DON'T HEAR FROM YOU, I'M GOING TO ASSUME YOU'RE FINE WITH IT? OKAY. WE HAVE NOT CHANGED, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, A LOT ON THIS SLIDE. WE BASICALLY ADDED THE FIRST WORD ADVERTISING, AND THEN WE ALSO GAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION TO THE ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, WHAT WE MEAN BY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. AND THEN WE ADDED C, ADVERTISING THAT IS LIBELOUS, OR DEFAMATORY. AND THEN WE GET TO D, WE'RE JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE EXPLICIT ON THE COPYRIGHT, TRADEMARK AND THE SERVICE MARK. WE INCLUDED SERVICE MARK. ANY QUESTIONS? ANY ISSUES? THANK YOU. ON THIS SLIDE, WE DID ADD MORE LANGUAGE TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE SPECIFIC ON WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TOBACCO, CIGARETTES. WE ADDED MARIJUANA AND THEN WE ALSO SAID, OR RELATED GOODS OR SERVICES. WE HAVE NOW TAKEN E TO F, AND IT'S BASICALLY A LITTLE BIT OF THE SAME, BUT WE GAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE VERBAGE TO ADDING, PROMOTES AND SOLICITS, DEPICTS OR MARKETS. THE SELLER USES SPIRITUOUS LIQUOR AND THEN HERE THIS IS WHERE WE'RE ASKING THE EXCEPTION FOR AT THE FLAGSTAFF PULLIAM AIRPORT FOR THE TWO REASONS THAT I SHARED WITH YOU IN THE PRESENTATION. >> COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS. >> THANK YOU MAYOR. SO HEIDI, ON E I NOTE THAT YOU'VE PLACED IN THERE RELATED GOODS OR SERVICES. BUT WOULD IT BE MORE CLEAR TO ADD THE TERM CBD BECAUSE MARIJUANA HAS THE THC AND THAT'S A DIFFERENT PRODUCT. EVEN THOUGH IT SAID RELATED GOODS AND SERVICES, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO ADD CBD PRODUCTS BECAUSE YOU CAN GET THOSE ON THE INTERNET. YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO WHATEVER KIND OF STORE THEY CALL A DISPENSARY. SO I WOULD JUST SUGGEST ADDING THAT. >> I'VE WRITTEN THAT DOWN. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? THANK YOU. >> YEAH, I DO. >> SORRY VICE MAYOR. >> SORRY. I'LL JUST STAY ON HERE AND TRY TO MUTE MY COUGHING. FOR MY PART, I DON'T THINK F IS NECESSARY, I WOULD JUST LEAVE IT OUT. I UNDERSTAND THE PROHIBITION OF ADVERTISING. ADVERTISING THAT PROMOTES SOLICITS OR DEPICTS OR MARKETS THE SALE OR USE THE CIGARETTES, TOBACCO, ETC. WE ARE A TOBACCO 21 TOWN. WE HAVE COME TO THE CONSENSUS THAT WE WANT TO PROHIBIT TOBACCO USE FOR THOSE UNDER 21. THAT'S CONSISTENT. ITEM F. I PERSONALLY DON'T THINK THIS IS TOO MUCH TINKERING. THIS IS GETTING UNDER THE HOOD AND DOING SOMETHING WE DON'T NEED TO DO. I THINK IT COULD CREATE A WHOLE SLEW OF CONCERNS OF ITSELF I'M JUST ADDING SEVEN VOICES, BUT I WOULD AVOID ADDING F. [02:20:01] >> I WAS GOING TO BRING YOU UP HERE SO PLEASE GO AHEAD. >> IT'S NOT ADDING, CORRECT IT'S JUST EDITING? >> THAT'S CORRECT. I WAS JUST GOING TO LOOK FOR SOME CLARIFICATION. VICE MAYOR. F IS REALLY JUST TWEAKING THE LANGUAGE THAT'S ALREADY IN THE CURRENT POLICY. >> TO MAKE IT OKAY TO DO IT AT FLAGSTAFF FALLING. I UNDERSTAND NOW. I'M SORRY DESPITE YOUR LITTLE [OVERLAPPING] REBECCA AND HEIDI THE SLIDES ARE A LITTLE CONFUSING BECAUSE I'M NOT LOOKING AT THE LANGUAGE THAT COMES BEFORE OR AFTER IT. I AM GOING TO PULL UP THE REVISED STATUTES SO I CAN FOLLOW ALONG BETTER ON THIS, BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO BE LOOKING BACK AND FORTH. I WOULD THINK THAT THE ADDITION, THE EDIT IN ITALICS THAT YOU ARE RECOMMENDING WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE VIEWPOINT THAT I JUST EXPRESSED. >> THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION. COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY. >> I BELIEVE THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT THE VICE MAYOR JUST SAID, BUT I WOULD DELETE THE WORDS THAT ARE IN ITALICS IN ITEM F. >> I THINK THAT THAT'S COUNTER TO WHAT VICE MAYOR JUST SAID. >> TO BE CLEAR, THAT'S THE OPPOSITE. [OVERLAPPING]. >> THE VICE MAYOR SAYS KEEP THOSE WORDS IN THERE THAT ARE IN ITALICS. I'M SAYING TAKE THEM OUT. ONE REASON IS, AS I SAID BEFORE, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD HAVE EXCEPTIONS FOR ONE PARTICULAR INDUSTRY AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THAT IS AND I WOULD TAKE IT OUT, I'M ONLY TWO VOTES. WELL, I'VE ASKED THE CITY ATTORNEY IF I CAN SOMEHOW GET TWO VOTES AND HE JUST LAUGHS AT ME WHENEVER I DO THAT. >> MAYOR WOULD HELP ME TO KNOW IF THERE'S ANYBODY ELSE THAT FEELS THE SAME. >> ANYONE ELSE? I DON'T SEE ONE. >> THANK YOU. THIS ONE DEFINITELY WE HEARD YOU. WE COULD ADD THE WORD VIOLENCE BACK IN TO EITHER G OR H. I HEARD YOU, COUNCILMAN MCCARTHY. BUT THIS ONE DOES DEFINITELY CALL OUT SPECIFICALLY WHAT OUR PUBLIC PARTICIPANTS WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS EVENING WITH FIREARMS, AMMUNITION, OR RELATED GOODS OR SERVICES. THEN WE ALSO GO DOWN ADVERTISING. WE ADDED ADVERTISING THAT CONTAINS ANY THREAT IMPLIED OR DIRECT TO HARM A PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL OR GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS WHERE I'M THINKING THAT'S WHERE THE VIOLENCE COULD GO, THE VIOLENCE WORD. I NEED TO KNOW HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THE NEW G. >> COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR. AGAIN, I'M STRUGGLING HERE TO COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY'S POINT ABOUT SINGLING SOMETHING OUT. I'M STRUGGLING WITH PULLING OUT, ADVERTISING FIREARMS, BUT NOT PULLING OUT THROWING AN AX BECAUSE NEITHER ONE IS POINTING TOWARDS A HUMAN BEING. BUT THEY CLEARLY BOTH CAN BE USED AS A WEAPON AND CAUSE HARM OR DEATH. I'M JUST STRUGGLING WITH IF WE'RE GOING TO KEEP IN ANY PROMOTIONS THAT DEPICTS FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION, THEN WE SHOULD ALSO INCLUDE OTHER ACTIVITIES THAT COULD BE TAKEN OUTSIDE OF THAT ARENA AND USED PRIVATELY FOR PHYSICAL HARM. IF I GET GOOD AT THROWING AN AX, I MIGHT BE MORE. IF THAT'S THE ROAD YOU WANT TO GO DOWN, I MIGHT BE PRACTICING FOR SOMETHING. >> I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A SUGGESTION AND THEN KEVIN OUR DEPUTY ATTORNEY CAN TELL ME IF I'M NOT ALLOWED TO GO THERE. WHAT WE COULD DO IS INSTEAD OF SPECIFICALLY SAYING SOMETHING LIKE FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT MIGHT LOOK OR SEEM LIKE IT'S A WEAPON, WE COULD SUGGEST SOMETHING IN THE POLICY WHERE WE ASK THEM TO SHARE A SAFETY MESSAGE, [02:25:05] LIKE ALL OF THE PUBLIC PARTICIPANTS SAID TONIGHT, THAT THEY SHARED THE SAFETY MESSAGE OVER AND OVER AGAIN. MAYBE WE'RE ALLOWING ALL ADVERTISERS TO ADVERTISE AND IN SOME CASES WE'RE ASKING THEM TO HELP SHARE THE SAFETY PORTION OF WHAT THEIR BUSINESS DOES FOR AN INDIVIDUAL OR THE COMMUNITY. I WILL TELL YOU THAT WITH TIMBERLINE FIREARMS IN THAT ONE VIDEO, ONE OF THE ISSUES WAS THAT IT WAS FIRING QUITE RAPIDLY AT A SILHOUETTE OF A PERSON AND WE FELT LIKE THAT MIGHT MAKE SOMEONE UNCOMFORTABLE QUITE HONESTLY. AGAIN, WE ARE JUST HERE TO BRING POLICY SUGGESTIONS FOR WE WORK FOR YOU. I'M THINKING THERE'S A WAY TO MAYBE GET AROUND A LITTLE BIT OF THIS AND MAYBE WITH KEVIN'S HELP, WE COULD BRING SOMETHING LIKE THAT BACK IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN THAT. AGAIN, KEVIN, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK OR NOT OR IF YOU'RE JUST LIKE HEIDI. >> NO. >> I THINK WE CAN COME BACK WITH SOMETHING. WHAT I'D LIKE TO AVOID IS US TRYING TO DO IT ON THE FLY UP HERE. THESE ARE COMPLICATED ISSUES, I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE PUT A DECENT AMOUNT OF THOUGHT INTO ANY PROPOSALS WE PUT FORWARD HERE TODAY. MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE IF MAJORITY OF COUNCIL AGREES WITH COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS, JUST TO GIVE SOME DIRECTION TO STAFF TO LOOK AT SOME OTHER IDEAS. I'VE HEARD THE IDEAS YOU'RE THROWING OUT. I THINK YOU'RE ALSO REFERRING TO SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WERE RAISED BY THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. I WOULD JUST GIVE HEIDI DIRECTION TO GO BACK AND MAYBE COME BACK WITH SOME DIFFERENT IDEAS. WE CAN COME BACK WITH OPTIONS. WE CAN TRY TO LOOK AT OTHER WAYS TO DICE THIS UP. THEN I RATHER THAN DO THAT ON THE FLIER HERE. >> THANK YOU. I JUST WANT TO CONCLUDE THAT I'M NOT SAYING THAT I'M NOT FOR THIS. LIKE YOU SAID, WE JUST GOT THIS. I WAS SENT A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO, BUT STILL NOT ENOUGH TIME TO THINK ABOUT ALL THE IF'S AND BUT'S. MAYBE IT PUTS US TO EXPOSE, TO ADD TOO MANY EXCEPTIONS AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT LANGUAGE WHICH MAKES THIS GO BACK TO WE NEEDED TO SAY IT THIS WAY OR NO WAY, I DON'T KNOW. BUT I JUST WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE IN KNOWING THAT WE LOOKED INTO AND PURSUED OTHER WAYS TO ACCOMPLISH THE SAME THING IN JUST TRYING TO BE SENSITIVE TO ALL THE BUSINESSES WE HAVE IN TOWN. ONCE AGAIN, I'LL STATE NORTHERN ARIZONA IS A HUGE HUNTING RECREATIONAL AREA AND ALL MY FAMILY HUNTS FOR THEIR FOOD. THEY DON'T GO AND BUY MEAT AT THE GROCERY STORE. I KNOW I MIGHT BE A RARITY, BUT I COME FROM A FAMILY OF HUNTERS. IT'S NOT JUST WHAT PEOPLE SEE ON TV, AND SO I JUST DON'T WANT TO DO THAT KNEE JERK REACTION. I WOULD FEEL BETTER KNOWING THAT WE AT LEAST THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND CAME BACK AND SAID, WE CAN'T DO IT. THEN I WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE SAYING, THEN LET'S STICK WITH THIS POLICY. BUT IF WE COULD JUST GIVE IT SOME MORE THOUGHT AND FIND OTHER WAYS, I WOULD FEEL GOOD WITH THAT. >> MAYOR, COUNCILWOMAN MATTHEWS. >> I'LL DO IT. >> WE HAVE COMMENTS FROM COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET. >> THANK YOU. THIS IS A TOUGH DISCUSSION TONIGHT, AND I APPRECIATE EVERYONE HERE AND WHO SPOKE. I AM A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, I KNOW THE VALUE OF ADVERTISING AND I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM. I HAVE NOT BEEN TO YOUR ESTABLISHMENT, BUT I'VE HEARD GOOD THINGS ABOUT YOU AND HOW YOU RUN YOUR BUSINESS. I DID WATCH THE VIDEO TODAY AND I'M GOING TO FULLY ADMIT THAT I WAS VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WHEN I WATCHED IT. I KNOW YOU SAID YOU DON'T WANT TO COMPROMISE, BUT I THINK WE'RE HERE TONIGHT TRYING TO LISTEN TO YOU AND HOPING THAT YOU'RE GOING TO ALSO LISTEN TO WHAT WE'RE SAYING AND THERE MIGHT NEED TO BE A COMPROMISE IN THIS. I WANT YOU TO BE ABLE TO ADVERTISE. BUT WE'RE FLAGSTAFF AND I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO WELCOME PEOPLE INTO THE COMMUNITY WHEN THEY COME TO THE AIRPORT. FOR ME THE VIDEO DIDN'T PORTRAY THAT. I'M WONDERING IF HEIDI, WHEN YOU DO COME BACK TO US, IF YOU CAN COME BACK WITH MAYBE IT'S NOT A VIDEO, IT'S YOUR LOGO AND WHAT YOUR ESTABLISHMENT DOES. I ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT EVER WE CREATE ISN'T JUST FOR TIMBERLINE FIREARMS, THIS IS A POLICY THAT IS ACROSS THE BOARD FOR ALL THAT WOULD COME TO US IN THE FUTURE AS WELL. [02:30:04] >> MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET, I UNDERSTAND. >> WE HAVE SOMETHING FROM VICE MAYOR. >> THANK YOU. PLEASE GO BACK TO THE PREVIOUS SLIDE. I HAVE THE POLICY PULLED UP HERE SO I CAN READ THE WHOLE THING IN ITS ENTIRETY NOW. I WOULD ARGUE THAT EACH IS GOOD, I THINK THIS TAKES CARE OF THE CONCERNS ON THAT SPECIFIC VIDEO, WHICH I THINK PROBABLY SHOULD BE ADDRESSED. I THINK THIS FALLS UNDER THAT CATEGORY G. IT SEEMS TO ME TO BE FAR TOO PRESCRIPTIVE. AT THE IRONY OF BEING PRESCRIPTIVE MYSELF, MY SUGGESTION ON HOW TO CHANGE THAT WOULD BE TO SIMPLY SAY ADVERTISING THAT DEPICTS THE USE OF WEAPONS. I WOULD LEAVE IT AT THAT. BUT YOU GUYS CAN HAVE THOSE INTERNAL CONVERSATIONS. THAT'S JUST MY RECOMMENDATION TO THROW ONTO THE WALL. DONE WITH THAT SLIDE. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, VICE MAYOR. COUNCIL MEMBER HOUSE. >> THANK YOU. ACTUALLY MY COMMENT WAS GOING TO BE VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT VICE MAYOR JUST SHARED IN TERMS OF G AND H. I AM GETTING THE SENSE JUST FROM THE CONVERSATION THAT THERE'S SOME ROOM TO SOMEHOW COMBINE THOSE TWO, OR AT LEAST THE INTENTION OF THOSE TWO. IT SEEMS LIKE THE STRONGER FOCUS AND INTENTION IS ON H, AND THAT'S THE ONE THAT SEEMS TO REALLY GET AT THE HEART OF THE POLICY THAT WE'RE TRYING TO PUT FORWARD HERE. THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION IS THE EMPHASIS ON H. I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT THAT MEANS FOR G. I AM SOMEWHAT ALIGNMENT WITH VICE MAYOR SUGGESTION AND HOW TO TWEAK AND COMBINE THOSE, BUT I THINK THAT IS REALLY GETTING A LITTLE BIT MORE TO THE HEART OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE. >> IT'S HELPFUL. THANK YOU. >> MAYOR, WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON. THEN WE'RE ALMOST DONE. H IS NOW J, I IS NOW K, IT'S BECAUSE AS YOU'VE KNOWN ALONG THE WAY WE'VE ADDED SOME ITEMS. HAVEN'T CHANGED VERY MUCH, BUT WHAT I HAD SHARED BEFORE ACTUALLY HASN'T CHANGED THAT MUCH AT ALL. I JUST WAS CURIOUS IF THERE'S ANY ISSUES WITH WHAT YOU SEE OR IF WE SHOULD MOVE ON? >> I THINK WE CAN MOVE ON. >> THANK YOU. >> LAST BUT NOT LEAST, J HAS BECOME A LOT MORE DETAILED. BASICALLY MAKING SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE POLITICAL MESSAGES AND SPECIFIC BALLOT QUESTIONS, THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT WITH THE ONE EXCEPTION THAT WE DO ADVERTORIALS THAT WE ALLOW OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO DO TO HELP US CONTINUE TO MESSAGE TO THE COMMUNITY SAFE AND RESPONSIBLE TOURISM, LEAVING NO TRACE, THINGS LIKE THAT. >> I THINK EVERYONE'S FINE WITH THAT. >> PERFECT. WE ARE NOW BACK TO THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE YOUR INDULGENCE. IT'S HELPED ME A GREAT DEAL. I KNOW KEVIN TOOK NOTES AS WELL, AND WILL BE BACK IN FRONT OF YOU BEFORE YOU KNOW IT. >> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? >> WE ARE DONE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU FOR SHOWING YOUR PATIENCE. >> I'VE HAD A REQUEST TO TAKE A BREAK. LET'S TAKE A 15-MINUTE BREAK. WE'RE GOING TO GET STARTED. WE ARE DOWN TO ITEM NUMBER 9, [9. Request for information on the history of the Timber Sky Development Agreement and amendments Discussion and Direction] REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION ON THE HISTORY OF THE TIMBER SKY DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT AND AMENDMENTS, AND WE HAVE A PRESENTATION. WELCOME. >> THANK YOU. ALAXANDRA PUCCIARELLI, CURRENT PLANNING MANAGER. I'M HERE TONIGHT TO DO A QUICK RUN THROUGH OF THE HISTORY OF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT FOR THE TIMBER SKY DEVELOPMENT. TO SUM UP, IN 2016, THERE WAS AN ANNEXATION, A REZONING, AND A BLOCK PLAT THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, AND THAT WAS FOR THIS SUBDIVISION, TIMBER SKY. [02:35:05] TIMBER SKY DOES NOT ACTUALLY INCLUDE TWO PARCELS JUST TO THE EAST OF THAT FRONT WOODY MOUNTAIN ROAD, THAT IS CURRENTLY THE PROPOSED LOCATION OF LIV TIMBER SKY, AS WELL AS THE APPROVED SKY COTTAGES PROJECT. TIMBER SKY IS INTENDED TO HAVE BETWEEN 910-1,656 DWELLING UNITS. HOWEVER, BECAUSE OF IMPACT ANALYSES, THE ACTUAL MAXIMUM WILL PROBABLY END UP BEING, WELL, A LITTLE BIT LOWER AT 1,300. IT ALSO INCLUDES A LITTLE OVER 10 ACRES OF COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT. WHEN WE DID THE BLOCK PLAT, THE DEVELOPER PROPOSED DIFFERENT PHASES. THE PHASES HAVE SLIGHTLY SHIFTED A LITTLE BIT. PHASE 3 IS NOW CONSIDERED A PART OF PHASE 2, BUT WE STILL HAVE IN THE FUTURE. THE APPLICANT WAS ABLE TO GET ME THIS DRAWING OF THE CURRENT STATE OF TIMBER SKY. GET ME A POINTER. HERE WE GO. THIS GREEN AREA OF TIMBER SKY IS PRIMARILY SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL THAT'S BEEN SUBDIVIDED, CONSTRUCTED, AND IS FOR THE MOST PART COMPLETE. THIS RED SUBDIVIDED AREA ALONG THE BOTTOM HERE IS CURRENTLY BEING SUBDIVIDED OR UNDER CONSTRUCTION, SO ADDITIONAL SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSES COMING. YOU CAN SEE HERE, THIS BLUE, THE TOP PORTION OF THAT BLUE IS WHERE THE HABITAT FOR HUMANITY PROJECT IS PROPOSED TO BE LOCATED. NORTH OF THAT IS THE PROPOSED ROARS MULTIFAMILY, 100% AFFORDABLE PROJECT. THAT LIVE TIMBER SKY PROJECT IS IN PURPLE HERE ON THE CORNER. AGAIN, TECHNICALLY NOT A PART OF THAT BLOCK PLOT WHEN IT CAME IN. SKY COTTAGES IS SOUTH OF THAT. THIS BIG BLUE AREA TO THE WEST IS THAT PHASE 4, WHICH CONTAINS ADDITIONAL HIGH-DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, MORE SINGLE-FAMILY UNITS, AS WELL AS COMMERCIAL PARCEL. THE ORIGINAL DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT INCLUDED THAT THE DEVELOPER WOULD DELIVER 100 PERMANENTLY AFFORDABLE RESIDENTIAL OWNERSHIP UNITS WITH A MINIMUM OF TWO BEDROOMS AND TWO BATHS, THAT WOULD BE SOLD BELOW 125% OF THE AMI AFFORDABILITY LEVEL. THESE WERE TO BE LAND TRUST UNITS AND SUBJECT TO AN AFFORDABILITY PLAN. THE UNITS WOULD BE DISPERSED THROUGHOUT THE FIRST THREE PHASES OF THE DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE MR AND HR ZONES. IT ALSO INCLUDED CITY OBLIGATIONS FOR WATER AND SEWER, OWNER OBLIGATIONS, AS WELL FOR WATER AND SEWER, SOME TRAFFIC MITIGATION, OUTDOOR LIGHTING STANDARDS, STORM WATER MITIGATION. IF I GO TOO FAST AND YOU WANT ME TO STOP AND GET INTO DETAILS, WE CAN DO THAT, BUT I'M JUST GOING TO PLOW THROUGH. THE FIRST AMENDMENT CAME IN AND THE OWNER HAD TO DO WITH WATER AND SEWER, SEWER LINES, THE DIAMETER PIPES. THE ORIGINAL DEVELOPMENT SAID THAT ALL HAD TO BE IN PLACE BEFORE A SINGLE CFO WOULD BE ISSUED AND THAT WAS CHANGED TO ALLOW MORE OF A PHASING OF THE DEVELOPMENT. THE SECOND AMENDMENT. THE CITY WAS AMENDING THE ENGINEERING FEES AND THE DEVELOPER WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE INCREASE IN FEES. THIS SECOND AMENDMENT INCLUDED AN ARRANGEMENT WHERE THE DEVELOPMENT WAS LOCKED INTO THOSE PREVIOUS ENGINEERING FEES. IT ALSO TALKED ABOUT AN EXCHANGE THAT 75% OF THOSE AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS NEEDED TO BE SOLD AND TRANSFERRED TO THAT LAND TRUST PRIOR [02:40:02] TO THE DEVELOPER REQUESTING ANY PLAT APPROVAL FOR PHASE 4. THEN, IF THE AFFORDABLE UNITS WERE NOT SELLING, IT ALLOWED THEM TO ADJUST THE AMI. THE THIRD AMENDMENT. THE THIRD AMENDMENT WAS ALL ABOUT SEWER AND THE WEST SIDE SEWER INTERCEPTOR PROJECT THAT THE CITY WAS DOING. BECAUSE THE CITY HAD A SEWER PROJECT, IT WAS SHIFTING RESPONSIBILITY AND SAYING, YOU GO FIRST, WE'LL COME LATER AGREEMENTS. THE FOURTH AMENDMENT. THIS AMENDMENT CLARIFIED SOME OF THE DENSITY TRANSFERS THAT WERE CONTEMPLATED IN THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT, BUT AGAIN, CLARIFY THAT THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED. BUT IT ALSO CHANGED THE ORIGINAL DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, INSTEAD OF PROPOSING THOSE 100 PERMANENTLY AFFORDABLE RESIDENTIAL OWNERSHIP UNITS, IS REPLACED WITH THE FOLLOWING TWO ELEMENTS. THE FIRST BEING AFFORDABLE RENTAL UNITS. BLOCK 1 WAS TO BE SOLD TO ROARS FLAGSTAFF APARTMENT OWNERS, LLC, FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF AFFORDABLE RENTALS. IT'D BE DEED RESTRICTED, AT LEAST 190 AFFORDABLE RESIDENTIAL UNITS. THEY'D BE RENTED TO HOUSEHOLD INCOMES OF 60% OR LESS AMI FOR A PERIOD OF NO LESS THAN 30 YEARS. THE VINTAGE OBLIGATION IS MET ONCE ROARS OR ANOTHER DEVELOPER BREAKS GROUND ON THE PROJECT. THE SECOND PART OF THAT AGREEMENT IS THE AFFORDABLE OWNERSHIP UNITS. VINTAGE AGREED TO DONATE NO LESS THAN THREE ACRES TO HABITAT FOR HUMANITY, TO DEVELOP NO LESS THAN 40 HOMES FOR PERMANENT AFFORDABILITY THROUGH THE CITY'S LAND TRUST PROGRAM. THE UNITS WERE TO BE PART OF THE SAME HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS, SO THEY HAVE TO MEET THE SAME DESIGN STANDARDS AND JUST ENSURES SOME CONTINUITY ACROSS THE COMMUNITY. IF IT'S NOT COMPLETED WITHIN FIVE YEARS, IT CAN REVERT BACK. I BELIEVE THAT'S STILL IN THERE. NO ONE SHOUTING KATKO. [LAUGHTER] FOR SOME REASON THAT SOUNDED WEIRD WHEN I SAID IT OUT LOUD. WATER FEES, THERE WERE SOME WATER FEES THAT WERE REQUIRED PREVIOUSLY, THAT WERE NO LONGER NEEDED AND SO THOSE WERE ELIMINATED. AS FAR AS THE STATUS OF THOSE TWO PROPOSED AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS. THE FIRST ONE BEING THAT WOODY MOUNTAIN APARTMENTS. AGAIN, THEY WERE REQUIRED TO HAVE AT LEAST 190 AFFORDABLE UNITS. THE PROJECT THAT WAS SUBMITTED AND REVIEWED BY STAFF WAS ACTUALLY FOR 221 UNITS. ALL THE UNITS ARE AFFORDABLE. THE SITE PLAN WAS CONDITIONALLY APPROVED BY STAFF ON MAY 18TH OF THIS YEAR. THE DEVELOPER IS REQUESTING SOME MODIFICATIONS TO THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS, WHICH IS A PROVISIONING CODE FOR 100% AFFORDABLE UNITS THAT COUNCIL CAN APPROVE CERTAIN MODIFICATIONS, THAT HAS NOT BEEN SUBMITTED YET. I JUST LEARNED TONIGHT, WE DISCUSSED IT, AND I AM OPTIMISTIC THAT THEY'LL MOVE FORWARD SOON. WE HAD SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER CERTAIN PARKING STANDARDS COULD BE MODIFIED BY COUNCIL, AND I THINK WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT THAT THEY CAN. THAT'S GOOD. THE SECOND PROJECT, THE HABITAT FOR HUMANITY PROJECT, CAME IN FOR A CONCEPT PLOT THAT GOT APPROVED ON MAY 8TH. THEY HAVE NOT SUBMITTED THE NEXT STEP, EITHER A PRELIMINARY PLAT OR A SITE PLAN. WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT YET. I KNOW THE DEVELOPERS ARE HERE AND I'M SURE HABITAT IS HERE, SO I'M SURE THEY CAN GIVE YOU MORE CURRENT UPDATES ON THESE PROJECTS. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR FROM COUNCIL IS, AFTER WE HAVE THIS DISCUSSION AND BACK-AND-FORTH IS, I WOULD LIKE CLEAR DIRECTION ON NEXT WEEK'S AGENDA, AND IF WE'RE COMFORTABLE MOVING FORWARD WITH BOTH THE ANNEXATION AND THE REZONING THAT IS SCHEDULED FOR NEXT WEEK. [02:45:07] DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME? LIKE I SAID, I KNOW THE APPLICANT IS HERE TO SPEAK. >> I HAVE A QUESTION. DO YOU HAVE THE DATES OF EACH OF THE AMENDMENTS? >> LINDSAY DOES. THIS IS THE FIRST ONE? >> YEAH. >>THE FIRST ONE IT LOOKS LIKE GOT RECORDED DECEMBER 21ST, 2016, SO THAT'S THE ORIGINAL DA. HERE WE GO. THEN THE FIRST AMENDMENT WAS 9-19-2017. THE SECOND DA 3-14-2018. THE THIRD AMENDMENT WAS, LET'S SAY SEPTEMBER 2018, AND THE FOURTH, OCTOBER 2022. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> COUNCIL, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF? >> I DO. PLEASE, JUST FOR THE RECORD, THE 60% OR LESS AMI, WHAT DOES THAT EQUATE TO? IS THAT ABOUT 39,000, 40,000? >> I CAN LET HOUSING ANSWER THAT. BUT THEORETICALLY IT REALLY DEPENDS ON HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE IN YOUR HOUSEHOLD, AND THEN IT'S A PERCENTAGE OF THAT INCOME. >> WHEN WE'RE TALKING WITH DEVELOPERS, WE CAN'T REQUIRE THEM TO PROVIDE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, CORRECT? >> CORRECT. >> THAT WE FOCUS ON LOW-INCOME HOUSING OR ALSO 120% AMI, WHICH IS MORE TOWARDS WORKFORCE HOUSING BECAUSE WE HAVE A BIG SHORTAGE IN THAT TOO. I'M JUST TRYING TO GET MYSELF UP TO SPEED ON THE DISCUSSIONS THAT HAPPENED HERE. >> I'LL GIVE THIS A SHOT. THERE'S AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS LOW-INCOME, IT'S NOT AFFORDABLE WORKFORCE, IS THAT CORRECT? >> MAYOR, COUNCIL, SARAH DARR, HOUSING DIRECTOR. AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS DEFINED SIMPLY AS A PROPORTION OF YOUR INCOME, NO MORE THAN 30% OF YOUR INCOME, SPENT ON YOUR HOUSING COST. HOUSING AND RELATED EXPENSES, THEY ARE THE WORDS THAT I WAS LOOKING FOR. IT IS RELATIVE BASED ON HOUSEHOLD SIZE, WHICH I AM PULLING UP. I THANK YOU THE IT FOR MAKING EVERYTHING ALWAYS LINKED TOGETHER AS WE GO THROUGH THAT. THANK YOU, SEE, LOOK AT THAT, ONE MORE LAPTOP THAT APPEARS RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. THE REASON A LOT OF RENTAL HOUSING IS FOCUSED AT 60% AMI AND BELOW ARE BECAUSE OF THE FUNDING SOURCES THAT ARE AVAILABLE FOR IT. THAT IS THE MAXIMUM INCOME TYPICALLY FUNDED THROUGH TAX CREDIT RENTAL HOUSING. YOU CAN SKEW YOUR RENTS LOWER THAN THAT, BUT 60% IS THE MAXIMUM INCOME. WE DO HAVE NEEDS ABOVE THOSE LEVELS ALSO AS RECOGNIZED BY OTHER GOVERNMENTAL PROGRAMS THAT GO UP TO 80% OF AREA MEDIAN INCOME. ABOVE 80%, OUR COMMUNITY HAS AN ACKNOWLEDGED NEED ABOVE THAT 80% NUMBER. AND AGAIN, WE GO BACK TO THAT PERCENTAGE OF INCOME SPENT ON HOUSING. FOR A HOUSEHOLD OF THREE, WHICH IS THE AVERAGE SIZE FOR THE COUNTY, AS AN INCOME FOR 2023, 60% IS $56,760 FOR HOUSEHOLD OF THREE. WE DO HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED NEEDS UP ABOVE THAT, UP INTO 100, 125 WHILE THE DREAM IS TO BE ABLE TO HELP SERVE SOME OF THOSE HOUSEHOLDS WITH HOME OWNERSHIP. THE RISING HOUSING PRICES IN OUR COMMUNITY OFTEN MAKE THAT UNREACHABLE. THUS, WE SEE VALUABLE PRODUCTS COMING TO MARKET, LIKE WHAT HABITAT FOR HUMANITY IS DOING AND THE HOUSEHOLDS THEY'RE ABLE [02:50:01] TO SERVE WITH THEIR STARTER HOMES. >> SARAH, ON THE TAX CREDIT DEVELOPERS, 60% AMI, IS THAT THE MAXIMUM? I'M STILL TRYING TO LEARN WHAT A TAX CREDIT DEVELOPER. THERE'S TWO PROGRAMS, 4% AND 9% OR SOMETHING? >> YES. COUNCILMEMBER MATTHEWS, THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT TAX CREDIT PROGRAMS, ACTUALLY NOT HUD PROGRAMS, THEY'RE IRS PROGRAMS. THEY ARE ADMINISTERED BY STATE DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING. A 4% IS A NONCOMPETITIVE CREDIT, THE 9% IS THE COMPETITIVE CREDIT. THE 9% CREDIT IS WHAT COUNCIL IS MOST FAMILIAR WITH. THAT'S THE DEVELOPMENTS WE'VE HAD THUS FAR IN OUR COMMUNITY HAVE ALL COME FROM THE 9% COMPETITIVE PIECES. THE 4% COUPLES WITH ANOTHER FUNDING SOURCE VIA THE INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITIES FOR BOND FUNDS. NOT OUR BOND FUNDS, BUT FOR A DIFFERENT SOURCE, AND THEN APPLY FOR IS STILL AN APPLICATION PROCESS FOR THE 4% CREDITS, BUT IT IS NOT A COMPETITIVE APPLICATION PROCESS. THEY BOTH SERVE OR ARE CAPPED AT SERVING HOUSEHOLDS AT 60% AMI OR BELOW BY RULE. THERE IS SOME INCOME AVERAGING THAT CAN COME INTO IT, BUT BY RULE IT IS 60% AMI AND BELOW. ARE YOU GOOD? OKAY. THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU, JUSTINE ACOSTA, FOR THROWING ME AN EXTRA LAPTOP. [LAUGHTER] >> THE QUESTION BEFORE US TODAY IS WHETHER WE ARE COMFORTABLE GOING INTO ANNEXATION AND REZONING AT NEXT WEEK'S MEETING. >> ACTUALLY, BECAUSE WE DID NOT AGENDIZE THE LIV TIMBER SKY PROJECT, I CANNOT GET DIRECTION FROM YOU ON THAT PROJECT. WE CAN ONLY TALK ABOUT [OVERLAPPING] TIMBER SKY. >> DO COUNCILMEMBERS HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS ABOUT THE HISTORY OF TIMBER SKY, THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, OR THE AMENDMENTS? COUNCILMEMBER, HOUSE HAS A QUESTION. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR. I'M JUST WONDERING IF IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO OFFER THE APPLICANT A LITTLE SPACE TO SPEAK ABOUT THE HISTORY FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE. I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A LITTLE DISCUSSION WITH MR. CRUTCHFIELD AND I'D JUST BE INTERESTED IN HEARING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT LED TO SOME OF THEIR METHODOLOGY OR THOUGHT PROCESS BEHIND SOME OF THE AMENDMENTS THAT TOOK PLACE AND WHERE WE'RE AT NOW. >> THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER. IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A PRESENTATION THAT APPEARED BEFORE OUR EYES. [LAUGHTER] >> MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, LINDSAY SCHUBE FOR YOUR RECORD, WITH THE LAW FIRM OF GAMMAGE AND BURNHAM, 40 NORTH CENTRAL, PHOENIX, ARIZONA. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. I TOLD YOUR CITY MANAGER I'M GOING TO DO MY BEST TO SPEAK SLOWLY. I KNOW THAT'S NOT ONE OF MY STRONG SUITS, BUT I'M GOING TO DO MY BEST. AND MUCH LIKE ALEX, AND HER GREAT PRESENTATION, WE DO HAVE A PRESENTATION. WE'RE VERY EXCITED TO BE HERE WITH YOU, BUT IF YOU DO HAVE QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS AS WE GO, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. AGAIN, LINDSAY SCHUBE. WITH ME IS WALTER CRUTCHFIELD FROM VINTAGE, YOU ARE GOING TO HEAR FROM HIM. WE HAD STEPHEN IRWIN FROM SWI, OR ARDURRA, WHATEVER THEY CALL THEMSELVES NOW. HE COULD SPEAK TO HABITAT FOR HUMANITY AND THE GRADING AND WHERE WE ARE IN THE PROCESS. WE'RE GOING TO DO OUR BEST TO SPEAK ON HIS BEHALF, HE HAD TO GO HOME. HE'S GOT A WIFE AND CHILD AND I THINK SOMEONE LOOKING AT A TREE. WE ALSO DID HAVE ERIC HERE FROM HABITAT FOR HUMANITY, WHO YOU GUYS ARE ALL FAMILIAR WITH. HE HAD TO LEAVE AS WELL, SO WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO SPEAK FOR HIM TOO. BUT THEN MOST IMPORTANTLY, WE DO HAVE KEVIN STURGEON WHO FLEW IN FROM MINNESOTA ON BEHALF OF ROERS, HE GOT UP AT THREE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING. I KNOW WE'VE ALL HAD A LONG DAY, BUT HE'S HAD A LONGER ONE BECAUSE HE FLEW IN FROM MINNESOTA. BETWEEN ALL OF US, WE HOPE THAT WE CAN SPEAK TO THE HISTORY AND SPEAK TO THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS AND WHERE WE'RE AT. BUT BEFORE WE DO THAT, I WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT. [02:55:01] ALEX, THE PLANNER, SPOKE TO THE LEGALITY AND THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT AND DESCRIBE SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED LAST WEEK. WHEN MICHELLE MCNULTY SPOKE AND GAVE HER COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT REPORT, SHE SAID THAT THERE WERE MANY PLANNERS WHO SPOKE LAST WEEK AT THE PLANNING CONFERENCE. WELL, I WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO TAKE PART IN ONE OF THOSE PANELS WITH WALTER, ERIC FROM HABITAT FOR HUMANITY, AND MICHELLE. AND WE TOLD THE TIMBER SKY STORY. WE WENT THROUGH A LOT OF WHAT I AM GOING TO TAKE YOU THROUGH TONIGHT. TWO MEMBERS OF THE AUDIENCE CRIED. I'M NOT KIDDING. I DO WANT TO JUST TAKE A MOMENT AND JUST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS IS DIFFERENT. THIS IS REALLY A GREAT EXAMPLE OF PRIVATE-PUBLIC PARTNERSHIP. I'M REALLY PROUD TO BE PART OF IT. AGAIN, WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE TOO LONG, BUT IT IS A REALLY INTERESTING PARTNERSHIP THAT HAS NEVER BEEN SEEN BEFORE. I GOT AN EMAIL TODAY FROM THE TUCSON HOUSING DEPARTMENT ASKING FOR OUR PRESENTATION AND ASKING FOR SOME TIME OF HOW THEY CAN REPLICATE THIS IN TUCSON. YASSAMIN ANSARI, COUNCILMEMBER IN PHOENIX, IS LOOKING TOWARDS THIS PROJECT AND HOW SHE CAN IMPLEMENT HABITAT STARTER HOMES IN DIFFERENT PROJECTS IN PHOENIX. THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY. FLAGSTAFF, YOU ARE REALLY PUTTING YOURSELVES ON THE MAP, AS WELL AS WITH YOUR PRIVATE SECTOR PARTNERS, SO I JUST WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT THAT THIS IS A VERY SPECIAL DEVELOPMENT THAT WE HAVE HERE. THIS IS ANOTHER VARIATION OF THE MAP. AGAIN, LIV TIMBER SKY, WHICH IS IN RED, WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE HEARD. WE'VE ADVERTISED TO BE HEARD NEXT WEEK, SO I'M HOPEFUL WE'RE ON THAT AGENDA FOR A REZONE AT THE CORNER. SKY COTTAGES, THAT'S SINGLE-FAMILY FOR RENT. MANY OF YOU WERE ON COUNCIL WHEN WE GOT THAT APPROVED. ROERS, AGAIN, THE SITE PLAN HAS BEEN APPROVED. KEVIN WILL SPEAK TO WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. HABITAT FOR HUMANITY, VINTAGE HAS DONATED THE PROPERTY TO HABITAT FOR HUMANITY. THAT TRANSFER IS DONE. WE'LL SPEAK MORE TO WHERE WE ARE AT THAT STAGE. AND THEN THE BALANCE OF TIMBER SKY. AGAIN, WE'RE ACROSS FROM THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT AND ACROSS FROM PRESIDIO IN THE PINES. I DON'T NEED TO GO THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. I WOULD START, AND I'M GOING TO LET WALTER SPEAK TO THIS, BUT THE 100 HOUSING UNITS, THEY WERE NOT A REQUIREMENT OF THE REZONE. THEY WERE A VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTION BY THE DEVELOPER. THERE WERE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT AMENDMENTS IN THE MIDDLE. I THINK WE CAN SEE THEY WERE MOSTLY SEWER INFRASTRUCTURE, JUST NORMAL THINGS THAT CONTRACT BETWEEN DEVELOPERS AND CITIES. THE FOURTH AMENDMENT, AND MANY OF YOU WERE ON COUNCIL AT THAT TIME, AND I'LL LET WALTER SPEAK TO IT, BUT HE CAME HAT IN HAND SAYING, WHAT WE CAME TO THE TABLE WITH JUST ISN'T GOING TO WORK SO LET'S DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND SOMETHING BETTER. AND I DO SUBMIT TO YOU WHY IT WAS PICKED FOR A PLANNING CONFERENCE PANEL. IT IS UNIQUE AND I THINK WE ENDED UP IN A WAY BETTER SITUATION. I THINK THIS IS A REALLY GREAT OPPORTUNITY. ALEX SHARED THIS EXACT SAME EXHIBIT, THE STEVEN IRWIN. AGAIN, THE PROPOSED REZONE IS ON THE CORNER. THE PINK IS ALL APPROVED AND THEN BLUE IS FUTURE PHASES. I'M SURE YOU'VE ALL DRIVEN THROUGH TIMBER SKY, IT'S A BEAUTIFUL COMMUNITY, HOW IT'S STARTING TO BUILD OUT. WHAT ARE THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMPONENTS RIGHT NOW IN THE TIMBER SKY DEVELOPMENT? ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING AND IMPORTANT THINGS, AND WE CAN TAKE WALTER'S SPEAKING POINTS, IS THE DIVERSITY OF HOUSING OPTIONS. TO HAVE A $2.2 MILLION HOME WITH 60% AMI OR LESS. WHEN WE ARE DONE, WE WILL HAVE A MINIMUM OF 281 AFFORDABLE UNITS. ROARS IS 221. VICE MAYOR, YOU KNOW MY FAVORITE THING TO SAY. THE VICE MAYOR DID COMMIT, LAST TIME AT THIS DIAS, YES, EXACTLY. [LAUGHTER] THERE YOU GO. ENJOY THAT HEAD OF HAIR. VICE MAYOR, YOU ARE SO GREAT, JUST ADDING A LITTLE BIT OF HUMOR TO THAT LAST DISCUSSION. BUT AGAIN, WE'RE CONTRACTED AT 190. OUR CONDITIONALLY APPROVED SITE PLAN HAS 221 UNITS. WE'RE VERY EXCITED. HABITAT FOR HUMANITY HAS A MINIMUM OF 40. WE'RE HOPING TO GET MORE ON THERE. BUT BECAUSE OF GRADING ISSUES, WE JUST DON'T HAVE A SITE PLAN YET, BUT WE'RE REALLY CLOSE. >> I'M HAPPY TO HEAR IT. >> SKY COTTAGES HAS 20 AFFORDABLE UNITS, AGAIN, SINGLE-FAMILY FOR RENT, DIFFERENT PRODUCT, DIVERSITY OF HOUSING TYPES. I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT WITH THOSE 12-MONTH LEASES TO HAVE 20 AFFORDABLE UNITS IN THERE. AGAIN, I JUST CLARIFIED WITH WALTER, WE DID NOT TAKE ANY ZONING CODE INCENTIVES FOR THOSE 20 UNITS FOR SKY COTTAGES. [03:00:02] THAT WAS JUST A DONATION BY THE DEVELOPER. I'M GOING TO PASS THE MICROPHONE OVER TO WALTER. HE IS GOING TO SPEAK FOR HIMSELF AS WELL AS FOR ERIC AT HABITAT FOR HUMANITY. >> WALTER CRUTCHFIELD, VINTAGE PARTNERS, 20502 EAST CAMELBACK ROAD. MAYOR, VICE MAYOR ASLAN, COUNCIL MEMBERS, THANK YOU FOR HOSTING US. YOU'VE HAD A LONG EVENING ALREADY, SO WE'LL TRY NOT TO MAKE IT LONGER. I HAVE 12 GRANDCHILDREN. I'M PROUD OF MY 12 GRANDCHILDREN OF THREE SPECIAL NEED GRANDCHILDREN IN THE 12. THERE IS AN OCCASION WHERE THOSE GRANDCHILDREN WILL COMPLAIN, AND MY WIFE HAS SOMETHING THAT SHE MAKES THEM DO WHEN THEY START TO COMPLAIN, AND I'M EMBARRASSED TO SAY SHE DOES THE SAME THING TO ME. SHE SAYS IF YOU WERE GOING TO COME UP WITH FIVE THINGS YOU'RE THANKFUL FOR BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT. I WANT TO TELL YOU FIVE THINGS I'M THANKFUL FOR. I'M THANKFUL FOR THAT IN 2014, THEN COUNCIL MEMBER, LATER MAYOR CORAL EVANS SAT DOWN WITH ME AND SAID IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO DEVELOPMENT HERE, YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AND WE TOOK A TOUR THROUGH THE SOUTH SIDE AND SUNNYSIDE AND SHE BEGAN TO SHOW ME THINGS I WOULDN'T SEE OTHERWISE AND WE BEGAN TO TALK ABOUT, WHAT COULD TIMBERS SKY BE? WE CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF COMMUNITY LAND TRUST, WHICH LEADS ME TO THE SECOND THING THAT I'M THANKFUL FOR. I'M THANKFUL FOR THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING STAFF BECAUSE THE DEVELOPER WALKED IN THERE WITH NO CLUE HOW TO DELIVER COMMUNITY LAND TRUST UNITS. BUT THE CONCEPT OF COULD WE GIVE LOTS TO BUILDERS THAN ASK BUILDERS TO BUILD A DISCOUNTED PRODUCT, AND WE COULD ACTUALLY GET SOME PERMANENCE IN THAT HOUSING AND THEN IT COULD WORK. THEY POINTED OUT THAT A PRIVATE DEVELOPER HAD NEVER DONE IT. THAT THE DEVELOPMENT I WAS LOOKING AT, THERE WAS ONE IN NEW MEXICO, OTHERS, THEY'D ALL BEEN DONE ON THE PUBLIC SIDE, NOT THE PRIVATE SIDE. BUT THEY AGREED TO COME ALONGSIDE, AND I'M GRATEFUL FOR THAT. I DON'T THINK ANY OF US KNEW WHAT WAS AHEAD OF US AND WHETHER OR NOT WE COULD EVEN GET IT DONE. I'M GRATEFUL FOR FAILURE BECAUSE IT BECAME APPARENT THAT EVEN THOUGH WE GAVE THE LOTS AWAY, THE BUILDERS WERE DELIVERING HOMES THAT WERE GOING TO BE OVER $400,000 AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO BE AFFORDABLE. WHY? BECAUSE CONSTRUCTION COSTS EXPLODED. NOW WE ADD INTEREST RATES TO THAT EXPLOSION, AND WE ALMOST HAVE NO WAY TO GET THERE THROUGH A COMMUNITY LAND TRUST. I STOOD AT THIS DIAS AND TOLD YOU WE FAILED TO DELIVER. I FAILED AND I TOOK FULL RESPONSIBILITY. I DIDN'T SAY INTEREST RATES, ECONOMY, PANDEMIC, I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING. I SAID I FAILED AND WE HAD TO COME UP WITH A WAY THAT WOULD SOLVE IT. I THINK AFFORDABLE HOUSING AREA AS SAID, RENTALS ARE A GOOD WAY TO DO THAT. WE BEGAN TO PURSUE THE RENTAL SIDE. I'D LOVE TO STAND HERE AND SAY, AND THEN I HAD THE BRILLIANT IDEA OF HABITAT FOR HUMANITY, BUT I DIDN'T. THAT WAS YOUR FORMER MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET WHO CAME TO ME AFTER THE SESSION AND SAID YOU HAVE TO TALK TO ERIC WOLVERTON AND LEARN ABOUT HIS STARTER HOMES, WHICH LEADS ME TO THE NEXT THING I'M THANKFUL FOR, WE'RE ALMOST DONE, AND THAT'S ERIC WOLVERTON. ERIC WOLVERTON IS A TREASURE. WE JUST HAD HIM AT THE HOUSING CONFERENCE, AND AS MUCH AS LINDSAY WANTS TO SAY, WE HAD SOMETHING PROFOUND TO SAY, HE HAD SOMETHING PROFOUND TO SAY. THE GIRL WHO STARTED CRYING AND CAME UP, SHE WAS IN CHARGE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR TUCSON AND SHE SAID, I GET SO DISCOURAGED, WE DON'T EVER MAKE PROGRESS. MARICOPA COUNTY, WE HAVE 900 PEOPLE EVERY SINGLE MONTH GOING INTO HOMELESSNESS. WE'RE NOT CATCHING UP. SOMETIMES IT JUST FEELS OVERWHELMING AND IT WOULD BE EASIER TO GO, NOT MY PROBLEM. YOU COULD SAY THE SAME, BUT IT'S ALL OF OUR PROBLEM. PEOPLE ELECTED YOU TO FIX IT AND THEY ALLOW ME TO DEVELOP AND THEY EXPECT US TO DELIVER AND I FEEL THAT WEIGHT. I MEAN TO SAY THAT WE DON'T REALLY CARE WHAT YOU THINK OF ME. I DON'T REALLY CARE WHAT STAFF OR THE CITY THINKS OF ME. I HAVE AN AUDIENCE OF ONE, AND THE ONE AUDIENCE I HAVE CARES ABOUT THE POOR AND CARES ABOUT THOSE THAT DON'T HAVE A VOICE, AND THAT HAS BEEN A PART OF OUR LIFE AND OUR FAMILY FOR AS LONG AS WE'VE BEEN IN BUSINESS. WE'RE GOING TO DELIVER BECAUSE WE HAVE GREAT PARTNERS. LAST THING I'M THANKFUL FOR IS A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALL DONE THIS WORK PRO BONO. WHEN WE GAVE THE LAND TO HABITAT, IT BECAME CLEAR ERIC WOLVERTON, [03:05:03] WHILE PASSIONATE, VISIONARY, IS NOT A DEVELOPER. TO DELIVER 48 UNITS WAS NOT SOMETHING WE COULD JUST SAY, HEY, HERE'S THE LAND, GOOD LUCK. IT WASN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. I SAID I'LL BE THE DEVELOPER AND I'LL DO IT FOR FREE. TYLER MARK OF WESTPAC SAID, "I'LL DO THE PRE-CONSTRUCTION, AND I'LL DO IT FOR FREE." STEPHEN IRWIN FROM SWI SAID, "I'LL DO THE ENGINEERING AND I'LL DO IT FOR FREE," EXCEPT THE PARTS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN FREE AND WE PAID FOR THOSE. LINSEY SHOBE SAID, "I'LL DO ALL THE LEGAL WORK FOR FREE." EVERY SINGLE, WEEK THOSE PEOPLE MEET TO GET THIS PROJECT DONE. WE'RE NOT HERE ASKING YOU FOR ANYTHING FOR HABITAT. YOU OUGHT TO SUPPORT HABITAT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A CHANCE NOT JUST TO DO SOMETHING HERE BECAUSE I KNOW OTHER DEVELOPERS WHO'VE SAID WE DON'T THINK YOU CAN GET IT DONE, WALTER, BUT IF YOU CAN, WE'LL PUT STARTER HOMES IN OUR DEVELOPMENTS. I FEEL A LOT OF WEIGHT TO DO THAT. I THINK THEY COULD INFLUENCE THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. I THINK WE HAVE A WAY TO REALLY DO SOMETHING AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE. PHOENIX JUST PASSED THE ADU LEGISLATION WHICH ALLOWS PEOPLE TO BUILD ADUS. ESSENTIALLY STARTER HOME IS ABOUT THE SIZE OF AN ADU, AND WE HAVE A CHANCE TO DO THAT. THEN THE LAST THING I'M THANKFUL FOR IS ROARS. WE WENT OUT TO FIND A LOW-INCOME TAX CREDIT, 60% AMI DEVELOPER, [FOREIGN] AND WE WENT THROUGH A LOT OF THEM BECAUSE FRANKLY, ONE OF THE BIGGEST THAT WORKS IN MARICOPA COUNTY, IT LOOKS LIKE THE GULAG. THEY'RE UGLY AND THEY BASICALLY HAVE THE ATTITUDE THAT SADLY WE SEEM TO HAVE FOR THE LESS FORTUNATE, HEY, SHOULD JUST BE THANKFUL, PAT YOU ON THE HEAD GO LIVE IN YOUR POOR SPOT OVER BY THE POOR FOLKS. BUT THEY BUILT SOME BEAUTIFUL STUFF. WE RECRUIT HIM AND SAID, PLEASE COME HERE. WE'LL SELL YOU PARCEL ONE AT A DISCOUNT, WE'LL DONATE THE PROPERTY TO HABITAT, WE'LL BE ABLE TO WORK THESE TWO PIECES TOGETHER, AND WE'LL BE ABLE TO DO IT INSIDE OF A MASTER PLAN COMMUNITY, WHICH RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET HAS HOUSES THAT ARE $1.7 MILLION. I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE HOA. I'VE TALKED TO THE PEOPLE IN MY HOUSING DEVELOPMENT AND I'VE TOLD THEM, YOU'RE GOING TO BE A PART OF SOLVING A PROBLEM. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO COME AND TELL ME NOT IN MY BACKYARD MOSTLY BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT AND I'M THE PRESIDENT, SO YOU REALLY CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. BUT SECONDLY, BECAUSE STOP BEING FLAGS THAT PEOPLE WHO TALK ABOUT THINGS AND DON'T DO IT. WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE THOSE PEOPLE. WE'RE GOING TO BE THE PEOPLE WHO DO SOMETHING. I'M GRATEFUL FOR THE OPPORTUNITY WE'VE HAD AND GRATEFUL THAT IT'S TAKEN TIME AND WE'VE HAD TO AMEND AND WE'VE HAD TO WORK TOGETHER. BUT I DON'T PUT A NEGATIVE STIPULATION ON THAT. AGAIN, IF YOU DO, YOU CAN. BUT I'M NOT PUTTING ANYTHING NEGATIVE ON THAT. WE'RE GOING TO GET THIS DELIVERED. THE TIMEFRAMES OCTOBER OF '22, WE'RE COMING UP ON OCTOBER OF '23, ROARS IS SHOVEL READY TO GO AND HABITAT, WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE A SOILS ISSUE BECAUSE THAT TIMBER SKY PARCEL HAD ALL THE PRESIDIO TRASH DUMPED ON IT, BAD SOIL ON THE PROPERTY. NOW WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MITIGATE IT. BUT CAPSTONE HOMES HAS COME FORWARD AND SAID, WE CAN TAKE THAT SOIL. NOW WE'RE MAKING PLANS TO MOVE THE SOIL BECAUSE I WENT TO BRIAN RHOTON, THE OWNER OF CAPSTONE HOMES AND I SAID, "BRIAN, STEP UP, WE NEED HELP AND YOU NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO HELP US BECAUSE WE NEED TO GET THESE BUILT." I FEEL LIKE PEOPLE ARE DOING THAT AND YOU GUYS BE GRATEFUL FOR ERIC, BE GRATEFUL FOR PEOPLE IN YOUR CITY WHO ARE DOING THIS VOLUNTARILY AND FOR FREE, BE GRATEFUL FOR YOUR STAFF. I FEEL LIKE WE'RE REALLY CLOSE TO GETTING THIS DONE. I'M NOT LOOKING FOR ANYTHING. IF YOU WANT TO CONNECT ANNEXATION AND ZONING TO THE CORNER AND HOLD US OFF, HAVE AT IT. I DON'T SEE HOW THAT HELPS ANYTHING. WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO OFFER HERE IS MARKET RATE, BUT DOESN'T HAVE AFFORDABLE SINGLE-FAMILY FOR RENT, SINGLE-STORY, THAT HAS 20 AFFORDABLE, ROARS, WHICH IS ALL AFFORDABLE, AND HABITAT FOR HUMANITY. HABITAT IS THREE ACRES. THAT'S PART OF A SIX-ACRE PARCEL, AND WE'RE STUDYING RIGHT NOW HOW WE CAN TAKE THE HABITAT START HOME DESIGN AND BRING IT UP TO SPEED AND POTENTIALLY USE OTHER MATERIALS AND POTENTIALLY PREFAB MATERIALS AND BUILD OUT THE BALANCE OF THE SIX ACRES. THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE'RE WORKING ON. THEY'RE NOT DONE. YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO SAY, HEY, YOU'VE MADE A LOT OF PROMISES, WE DON'T SEE ANYTHING. I DON'T THINK IT'D BE FAIR TO SAY YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING BECAUSE WE'RE RIGHT THERE. WE HAVE GIVEN LAND, WE HAVE GIVEN THEM MONEY. WE ARE THERE WITH ROARS AND WE'RE REALLY CLOSE TO BEING DONE, AND I'M THANKFUL LAST THAT YOU WOULD TAKE TIME TO HEAR FROM US. THANK YOU. [03:10:04] >> COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS, I BELIEVE HAS A QUESTION OR A COMMENT FOR YOU. >> YES. WALTER, THANK YOU. ROERS IS HERE, AND I KNOW THERE'S SOME DISCUSSION AND HE CAN MAYBE SPEAK ON IT, BUT THERE'S ALSO ISSUES AND CHANGES THAT WILL BE DISCUSSED IN THE FUTURE. BUT CAN YOU SPEAK ON AN EVOLUTION OF WHAT'S GOING ON THERE? >> WITH ROERS? WE RECRUITED ROERS. WE PUT THE PROPERTY IN ESCROW. THEY STARTED TO DO THEIR DEVELOPMENT WORK. I KNOW THEY'VE SPENT WELL OVER A MILLION- AND-A-HALF DOLLARS TO GET TO WHERE THEY ARE NOW. WE HAVE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF THEIR MONEY AS HARD DEPOSITS IN ESCROW. IF THEY WERE TO WALK AWAY, THEY'D BE WALKING AWAY FROM MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. THE DIFFICULT THING WITH THAT WHOLE CONVERSATION HAS BEEN, WELL, IF WE DON'T SAY WE'RE WALKING AWAY, THEN MAYBE THEY DON'T HELP US AND LET'S DISPENSE WITH THAT. LET'S FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN GET THESE THINGS BUILT. THEY'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS FOR QUITE SOME TIME ABOUT THE ABATEMENT THAT IS IN YOUR CODE. I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE A REASONABLE CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT. BUT I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE TRICKS. PEOPLE ASK ME ALL THE TIME, WELL, DO YOU GO IN WITH A DEVELOPED PROJECT THAT'S BIGGER THAN YOU WANT? NO, I GO IN WITH GREAT STUFF AND THEN I ADVOCATE FOR IT. THIS IS A GREAT PROJECT. IT IS A MASSIVE RISK TO US IN A SINGLE-FAMILY HOME DEVELOPMENT TO PUT LOW-INCOME TAX CREDIT HOUSING AT OUR ENTRY. THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE WHEN YOU PULL INTO TIMBER SKY, AND YOU KNOW WHAT? I COULDN'T BE MORE EXCITED BECAUSE I WANT TO STAND THERE WITH PEOPLE THAT ARE IN MILLION-AND-A HALF DOLLAR HOMES AND GO, LOOK, YOU DID IT. IT'S AN INTEGRATED COMMUNITY. WE HAVE THE LESS FORTUNATE, THE MORE FORTUNATE, EVERYBODY CAN MOVE UP. THAT'S WHAT THEIR CONVERSATION IS. BUT AGAIN, THAT DOESN'T AFFECT US. >> HE CAN TALK ON WHAT YOU JUST MENTIONED. >> HUNDRED PERCENT, HE'S PREPARED TO. >> VIA PAYMENT AND WHERE WE ARE WITH THAT? >> YES. ANYTHING ELSE? >> COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY. >> WALTER, I'VE BEEN ON COUNCIL LONG ENOUGH. >> YOU HAVE. >> THAT I VOTED AGAINST YOU AND I VOTED FOR YOU. >> YOU CERTAINLY DID. >> YOU REMEMBER THE NO VOTE? >> I DO. [LAUGHTER] >> BUT I JUST WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR ALWAYS BEING WILLING TO COMMUNICATE AND TO BE OPEN-MINDED AND HAVE A CONVERSATION. I BELIEVE THAT IN YOUR HEART YOU REALLY HONESTLY WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING. THERE'S BEEN OTHER DEVELOPERS, YOU CAN'T EVEN TALK TO THEM. YOU'RE A MODEL FOR THE COMMUNITY. >> I APPRECIATE THAT. >> I APPRECIATE YOUR YOUR TEAM THAT'S GOT YOUR BACK TOO. ANYWAY, THANK YOU. I MEAN THAT SINCERELY. >> I APPRECIATE THAT. THANKS FOR YOUR MANY YEARS OF SERVICE. I THINK WE WERE YOUNG WHEN THIS STARTED A LONG TIME AGO. >> I DON'T KNOW. I'VE BEEN OLD FOR A LONG TIME. [LAUGHTER] >> THIS MADE ME OLD. >> KEVIN STURGEON, 1325, AVENUE SOUTH IN ST. LOUIS PARK, MINNESOTA, LONG WAY FROM HERE. FIRST OF ALL, MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, AND COUNCIL MEMBERS, THANK YOU AGAIN FOR HAVING US TONIGHT. WE, B AND I OVER HERE ON THE ROERS TEAM, NEVER MIND GOING INTO FLAGSTAFF. IT'S A GREAT CITY HERE. NO COMPLAINTS ON OUR END. BUT WE'RE HAPPY TO BE HERE, SO THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS, WE DO HAVE A FEW SLIDES WHERE WE'LL RUN THROUGH A FEW ITEMS AND THEN I THINK WE'LL HIT ON YOUR QUESTION. IF WE DON'T IN THAT TIME, CERTAINLY, WE'LL COME BACK TO IT AND FEEL FREE TO ASK, BUT I THINK WE'LL JUST GO IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER IF THAT'S OKAY. I'M JUST STARTING WITH ROERS. I DON'T WANT TO SIT UP HERE IN BOAST ABOUT ROERS. I'LL TRY TO GET THROUGH THIS QUICK FOR THOSE WHO DON'T HAVE UP VIEW WITH OUR BACKGROUND. WE'RE A FULL-SERVICE REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT FIRM. WE'VE DEVELOPED OVER 10,000 UNITS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. I THINK WE'RE IN 17 STATES NOW, AND ARIZONA BEING ONE OF THOSE PRIMARY STATES. WE NOT ONLY DO THE DEVELOPMENT SIDE, THE CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT SIDE, BUT WE ALSO DO THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT SIDE. WITH THAT, TO YOUR POINT THAT YOU MADE THAT IT'S HARD TO TALK TO SOME OTHER DEVELOPERS, ONE OF THE BENEFITS THAT WE LIKE TO TALK ABOUT WITH HAVING THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT SIDE IS, A LOT OF DEVELOPERS WILL BUILD THE DEVELOPMENT AND FLIP IT RIGHT AWAY, GET OUT OF THE DEAL. WITH THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT SIDE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE LIKE TO COME TO CITIES WITH AND I EMPHASIZE, [03:15:03] IS WE'RE GOING TO BE WITH THESE PROJECTS FOR A LONG TIME, 15 PLUS YEARS, ESPECIALLY ON THESE AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEALS. WITH THAT, WE REALLY LIKE TO WORK CLOSELY WITH THE CITY STAFF, PLANNERS, REALLY EVERYBODY TO MAKE SURE IT'S UP TO THE CONSTRUCTION STANDARDS, UP TO THE DESIGN STANDARDS THAT NOT ONLY WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE, BUT FIT IN WITH THE COMMUNITY. SOMETHING THAT 15 YEARS FROM NOW THAT YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO BE PROUD OF AND WHATNOT. THAT'S ONE THING THAT WE ALWAYS WANT TO EMPHASIZE. THEN REALLY JUST TYING THAT INTO OUR NATIONAL FOCUS. AS I MENTIONED, WE'RE IN 17 STATES. WE'VE CLOSED ON THREE SPECIFIC PROJECTS. IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA WITHIN THE PAST 12 MONTHS, OUR TAX RATE AT AFFORDABLE 60% AMI DEALS THAT WE WANT TO EMPHASIZE AND THEN WE HAVE FOUR ADDITIONAL ONES IN THE PIPELINE FOR NEXT YEAR IN MARICOPA AND PINAL COUNTY. VERY ACTIVE IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA, AND WANT IT TO CONTINUE TO BE. JUST FOR A QUICK VISUAL, ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SCREEN IS A QUICK PHOTO ON THE TOP OF ONE OF OUR PROPERTIES IN MINNESOTA, AND THEN ON THE BOTTOM IS A RENDERING OF OUR PROJECT THAT'S CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION IN BUCKEYE, ARIZONA RIGHT NOW. THAT ONE'S A 200 UNITS ALL AFFORDABLE, 60% AMI DEAL. JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE PROJECT ITSELF. AS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, WE'VE GOT OUR SITE PLAN APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS. WE'RE CONTINUING TO WORK THROUGH THAT AS WE WORK THROUGH CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS AND CIVIL PLANS. THE PROPOSED PROJECT I MENTIONED IS 221 UNITS, ALL AT THE 60% AMI LEVEL. THEN ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS MENTIONED IS THE AGREED UPON 30-YEAR AFFORDABILITY COMMITMENT THAT WE'VE AGREED WITH THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY. I THINK THAT GOES TO SHOW TO OUR LEVEL OF COMMITMENT AS WELL WITH THE STATE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF HOUSINGS, MINIMUM BEING A 15-YEAR AFFORDABILITY COMMITMENT. HOPEFULLY, IT GOES TO SHOW OUR COMMITMENT TO BE A COMMUNITY PARTNER LONG-TERM. THEN JUST A FEW AMENITIES LISTED THAT YOU MAY HAVE SEEN IN THE PREVIOUS PICTURE. CENTRAL CLUBHOUSE, AMENITY AREA, FITNESS CENTER, TALAU WITH A PLAYGROUND, SWIMMING POOL. THOSE TYPE OF AMENITIES THAT REALLY INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM OUR COMMUNITIES. ACTUALLY, ONE OTHER ITEM I DO WANT TO TOUCH ON THE AFFORDABILITY COMPONENT THAT I JUST THOUGHT ABOUT THAT GOT BROUGHT UP EARLIER IS ON THE WORKFORCE/AFFORDABLE HOUSING NATURE OF THE PROJECT. THOSE WORDS ARE USED INTERCHANGEABLY IN THE 4% SPACE, I KNOW IT WAS BROUGHT UP. THERE'S A 4% PROGRAM, A 9% PROGRAM, AND I WON'T GET INTO THE DETAILS UNLESS WE'D LIKE TO. I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO. BUT ONE OTHER THING OUR PROJECT IS A 4% DEAL WITH THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING. AS MENTIONED, THAT'S A NON-COMPETITIVE PROGRAM. THE 9% DEALS ARE COMPETITIVE PROGRAM AND THERE'S A FINITE AMOUNT OF DEALS THAT CAN BE DONE EACH YEAR WITH THOSE. WITH THE 9% DEALS, THEY'RE USUALLY A LOT SMALLER DEALS BECAUSE THERE'S A FINITE OF CREDITS THAT ADOH CAN FUND. THEY'RE USUALLY ARE 30-70 UNIT DEALS. WITH THOSE IN A STATE OF ARIZONA USUALLY COME WITH MUCH LOWER SET ASIDE IN THE 6% AMI LEVEL. ON THE 4% SIDE, IT'S A NON-COMPETITIVE PROGRAM AND WITH NOT HAVING A FINITE AMOUNT OF CREDITS THAT ADOH CAN ALLOCATE WE'RE ABLE TO DO THESE BIGGER DEALS. WE ADD THE 221 UNIT DEAL HERE, 200 UNITS IN BUCKEYE AND CASA GRANDE AND MARICOPA. THROUGH THAT PROGRAM, IT REALLY ALLOWS US TO HELP MORE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY, WHICH HAS BEEN GREAT FOR US AND SOMETHING THAT WE'RE PROUD OF. I THINK TO THE NATURE OF THE AFFORDABILITY ASPECT, WHAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE YEARS AT THESE 60% AMI LEVELS, DEPENDS HOW MANY DEPENDENTS YOU HAVE IN THE UNIT. IF IT'S STARTING IT AS A ONE BEDROOM AND A ONE PERSON UNIT, THE 60% AMI LEVEL IS ABOUT $38,000 FOR 2023 AND THEN THAT CAN GO UP AS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, AS YOU HAVE MORE PEOPLE. UP TO THE 2023 LIMIT WAS THE 58,000. THAT IS THE RANGE DEPENDING ON IF IT'S A ONE, TWO, THREE-BEDROOM UNIT. WITH THAT BEING SAID, I WANT TO GET INTO THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT SIDE. A LOT OF OUR TENANTS IN A LOT OF OUR BUILDINGS REALLY RANGE FROM PEOPLE REALLY IN THE WORKFORCE. IT'S TRULY AFFORDABLE, BUT AS PEOPLE IN THE WORKFORCE, IT'S A LOT OF SINGLE PARENTS WITH KIDS. FIRST COUPLE YEAR, POLICE OFFICERS, TEACHERS, RETAIL WORKERS, FOLKS THAT ARE LIVING IN THE COMMUNITY THAT IN SOME INSTANCES, LIKE WE'VE SEEN IN MARICOPA, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY NEED TO COMMUTE FROM A DIFFERENT CITY BECAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD TO LIVE THERE. OUR GOAL IS TO TRY TO COME IN WITH THESE UNITS AND [03:20:01] PROVIDE THAT LEVEL OF HOUSING THAT THEY CAN LIVE WHERE THEY'RE WORKING AND NOT HAVE TO COMMUTE. JUST WANTED TO COMMENT ON THAT AS ONE THAT WAS BROUGHT UP EARLIER. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT I HEARD, ONCE YOU GET ON THE RECORD IS WE DO HAVE ALL OF OUR FUNDING SOURCES COMMITTED ON THE PRIVATE SIDE AND WITH THE STATE AGENCIES. WE DO NOT HAVE ANY STATE CREDITOR COMPETITIVE CRITERIA ALLOCATED TO OUR PROJECT, SO THERE'S NO OTHER OUTSTANDING CONTINGENCIES THAT WE'RE WORKING ON. ON THE PRIVATE LENDER OR AN INVESTOR SIDE, THEY'RE ALL LINED UP ON THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING SIDE. AS I MENTIONED, WE'VE CLOSED THE NUMBER OF DEALS WITH THEM IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS, AND WE'VE CONTINUED TO TALK WITH THEM ABOUT THIS PROJECT, AND KEEPING THEM UPDATED ON THE TIMELINE, SO THERE'S NO ISSUES THERE. THEN, WE HAVE A TAX-EXEMPT BOND ISSUANCE FROM THE ARIZONA INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY, IT'S A MOUTHFUL, BUT IT'S BASICALLY THE STATE AGENCY WHO ISSUES PART OF OUR CAPITAL STACK AND THE FINANCING SIDE. [NOISE] WITH THAT, I THINK AS MENTIONED, THERE'S REALLY SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO GO THROUGH TODAY, AND I THINK AS MUCH ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE, I THINK WANTED TO EMPHASIZE THAT EVERYBODY, WE'RE AT THE, AS WALTER SAID, TO SHOVEL-READY STAGE, EVERYBODY HAS COME INTO THE TABLE, WE HAVE ALL OF OUR FINANCING PARTIES LINED UP. ROARS WOULD DO MARKET RATE AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE NOTICED WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS IT'S A LOT MORE DIFFICULT TO GET DONE FOR VARIETY OF REASONS. THE PRIMARY REASON IS 99% OF THE TIME IT REQUIRES A PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN NOT ONLY THE PRIVATE FOLKS WHO I MENTIONED THE PREVIOUS SLIDE, BUT THE STATE AGENCY, AND ESPECIALLY THE COMMUNITY, THE CITY, THE COUNTY. A LOT, IF NOT ALL OF OUR AFFORDABLE PROJECTS, ESPECIALLY LIKE AN ARIZONA, LIKE IN BUCKEYE, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE HAD A COMMUNITY PARTNERSHIP WITH THE WEATHER, THE COUNTY OR THE CITY ON CERTAIN FUNDS THAT CAN HELP US WITH THE FINANCIAL FEASIBILITY OF THE PROJECT. WHAT WE'RE REALLY HERE TODAY TO DO IS REALLY ASK FOR THAT FINAL LEVEL OF COMMITMENT AND SUPPORT FROM THE CITY TO REALLY GET THIS PROJECT DONE. IT'S PRETTY RARE. I THINK THAT YOU SEE SHOVEL-READY PROJECTS OF THIS SIZE THAT ARE ALL AFFORDABLE AT THE 60% AMI LEVEL READY TO GO. BACKING UP A LITTLE BIT AND I'LL TRY TO KEEP THIS CONCISE, BUT WITH TIMELINES AND BACKGROUNDS OF WHAT WE'LL GET INTO IN THE FOLLOWING SLIDES HERE. BACK WHEN WE STARTED WORKING WITH WALTER ON THIS DEVELOPMENT AND GET IT UNDER CONTRACT, ONE OF THE THINGS IN MY OPINION THAT MAKES A QUALITY DEVELOPERS IS DOING YOUR INITIAL DUE DILIGENCE ON THE FRONT END. ONE ASPECT OF THAT IS DIGGING THROUGH CITY CODE, DIGGING THROUGH EVERYTHING THAT THE CITY HAS AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AND SEEING WHAT WORKS FOR THE DEAL AND WHATNOT. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE STUMBLED UPON EARLY IN 2022 WAS ESSENTIALLY, IN THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF CODE, WE FOUND THIS AND THEN THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF, WHICH YOU MIGHT BE AWARE OF WITH PUBLISHED A AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING INCENTIVE POLICY IN 2017. WHICH BASICALLY STATED, BUT SHORTLY, THAT A PROJECT AT OUR LEVEL TO 60% AMI, 100% OF HORRIBLE QUALIFIES FOR VARIOUS EITHER WAIVERS AND OR REIMBURSEMENTS FOR VARIOUS FEES RELATED TO PERMIT FEES, REVIEW FEES, AND DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEES. AS WE WERE WORKING THROUGH THE INITIAL PROCESS FAST-FORWARD OR PROBABLY SEPTEMBER OF 2022, WE CAME TO THE CITY AND INSTEAD, HOW DO WE MATERIALIZE THIS? NOW THAT WE HAVE A SET OF PLANS THAT WE CAN CALCULATE WHAT THIS AMOUNT IS, HOW DO WE GET CONFIRMATION, OR SOMETHING THAT THESE CAN TRULY BE WAIVED UNDER REIMBURSED? I THINK THE ANSWER IS AT THAT TIME WAS WHICH GOES A LITTLE BIT TO WHAT YOU PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED OF THERE HASN'T REALLY BEEN A DEAL OF THIS SIZE AT THIS AFFORDABILITY LEVEL IN THE CITY BEFORE, AND SO THE NUMBER IS A LOT HIGHER THAN THE CITY SCENE. I THINK THE CITY CAME BACK TO US AND SAID, "HEY, I KNOW THIS IS WHAT WE PUBLISHED, AND THIS IS WHAT'S IN THE CODE, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE FUNDS TO REALLY DO THIS". THE 2021 UNIT DEAL, THAT'S A MULTIMILLION DOLLAR FEE. WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE CITY A LITTLE BIT ON THAT. THEN FAST-FORWARD IN NOVEMBER OF 2022 IS WHEN THE BOND WAS PASSED, AND THAT BOND, WHICH WE MAY BE ALL AWARE OF $5 MILLION OF THAT WAS ALLOCATED FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF CREATING NEW AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF. I THINK FAST-FORWARD TO TODAY OF REALLY WHY WE'RE HERE AND WHAT WE WANT TO WORK THROUGH IS, AT THAT TIME, THE BONUS PAST, [03:25:01] WE THOUGHT THAT THAT WOULD BE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE UP THOSE FUNDING GAP. WE'RE HERE TODAY, WHAT SEPTEMBER 12TH, AND AT THAT TIME, IN NOVEMBER, WE WERE HOPING TO GET THROUGH ALL OF THIS IN THE SUMMER SO THAT WE COULD CLOSE, AND WE'VE GOTTEN A COUPLE OF EXTENSIONS ON THE LAND WITH WALTER AND HIS TEAM, WHICH HAS BEEN WE'RE GRATEFUL FOR. WHAT WE SEE ON HERE TODAY WITH NO DECISION, I WILL WALK THROUGH, AND I THINK IN MY OPINION, LITTLE PROGRESS, AND SO I THINK REALLY WANT TO WALK THROUGH SOME OF THESE SLIDES AND WHEN IT IS GOING TO HOLD IN ON SOME OF THESE. BUT WANTED TO EMPHASIZE WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY, AND WHAT WE WANT TO FOCUS ON, AND JUST RELAY THAT MESSAGE THAT WE CAN HOPEFULLY HIT THE GROUND RUNNING CLOTHES AND START CONSTRUCTION AT THE BEGINNING OF NOVEMBER. THAT'S ALL. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> MAYOR, DO YOU WANT ME TO FINISH THE SLIDES QUICKLY BEFORE WE ANSWER QUESTIONS IS THAT OKAY? >> ACTUALLY I'M GOING TO STEP IN HERE REAL QUICK IF YOU DON'T MIND. >> YES, PLEASE. >> I JUST WANT TO REMIND COUNCIL THE AGENDAS ARE RIGHT ON SCREEN, CAN I SCROLL WHILE I'M LOOKING AT THIS WITH THE AGENDA FOR THIS ITEM IS IN ITS REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION ON THE HISTORY OF THE TIMBERS GUIDE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT AND AMENDMENTS, AND SO WE'RE GOING TO STICK TO THAT. WE'RE GOING TO STICK TO THE HISTORY. THIS IS FINE. BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET INTO. I THINK THE GENTLEMAN FROM ROARS TALKED ABOUT A POTENTIAL REQUEST FOR FUNDING. THAT I THINK IS OUTSIDE OF THE CURRENT AGENDA. STICK TO HISTORY, LET'S STOP AT HISTORY, AND WE'LL BE GOOD. >> THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS? >> KEVIN, CAN WE ASK? KEVIN HAD SAID SOMETHING ABOUT FOR 221 UNITS. THE QUALIFIED IN THE CODE, AND QUALIFY FOR THE WAIVERS, COULD WE ASK WHAT THAT DOLLAR AMOUNT WOULD HAVE IS EQUATED TO? >> I MISSED THAT. CAN YOU REPEAT IT REAL QUICK? >> IT'S 221 UNIT DEAL, AND OUR CODE STIPULATES THAT A PROJECT THAT ROARS IS DEVELOPING, IT MEETS THOSE QUALIFICATIONS, THEY QUALIFY FOR WAIVERS OR BURST OF FEES. CAN WE ASK HOW MUCH IN FEES THAT WOULD BE? >> YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT THE INCENTIVE POLICY? >> YEAH. >> YEAH, THE INCENTIVE POLICIES ISN'T REALLY AGENDIZED HERE. >> OKAY. >> WE DIDN'T AGENDIZED IT THAT WAY. WE AGENDIZED THAT AS A HISTORY OF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS, AND I'LL GIVE A LITTLE LEEWAY ON THAT. BECAUSE THE REWARDS IS OBVIOUSLY PART OF THE HISTORY. IF THEY WANT TO MAKE A GENERAL STATEMENT OF AN ORDER TO PROVIDE THE UNITS THEY'VE PROMISED UNDER THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT THEY NEED X. I THINK THAT'D BE OKAY WITH THAT, BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET INTO DETAILS ABOUT IT AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET INTO A DISCUSSION OF THE ASK. >> BUT THAT'S WHAT I ASKED YOU? [OVERLAPPING] >> ARE YOU GOOD WITH THAT? [LAUGHTER] >> YEAH. AMERICA. [OVERLAPPING] >> ARE WE ON THE SAME PAGE? >> THAT WAS GOING TO BE MY SUGGESTION. WE DO HAVE AN ASK. MY LAST SLIDE HASN'T ASKED, BUT I WILL NOT GO TO THE ASK KEVIN. STICK TO JUST THE HISTORY OF WHAT HAS GOT US TO TODAY, AND THEN I WILL MAKE A STATEMENT IF IT'S OKAY WITH YOU AND YOU CAN KICK ME OR ARM WRESTLE ME. >> I WOULD KEEP IT AS A STATEMENT. OR MAYBE I NEED OR ISSUES THE DEVELOPMENTS RUNNING INTO. I'D LEAVE IT AT THAT. >> MAYOR, VICE MAYOR. I APPRECIATE YOUR CITY ATTORNEY. YOU GUYS DO HAVE SMARTER CITY ATTORNEYS THAN MOST JURISDICTIONS. I'M JUST GOING TO TELL YOU THAT, AND THEY CARE MORE SO. >> WE KNOW THAT. VICE MAYOR HAS A COMMENT. >> THANK YOU. I'M HAPPY TO INSERT MYSELF HERE IT AT ANY POINT, BUT I MIGHT AS WELL GO SINCE I'M UP. KEVIN, I'M OKAY. TALKING ABOUT THE STATE OF MY SCALP, RIGHT? >> SURE. >> I BELIEVE THAT'S THE HISTORY HERE. WELL, I'LL KEEP MY COMMENTS A LITTLE BIT VAGUE, AND I'LL JUST GO AHEAD AND MAKE THEM NOW. WALTER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR NARRATIVE, AND TO YOUR LAWYERS AS WELL. I JUST REALLY APPRECIATE THE AUTHENTICITY WITH WHICH YOU GUYS ARE APPROACHING THIS, AND HOW EXCITED YOU ARE, AND I BELIEVE IT. WHEN I MADE MY CHALLENGE TO SHAVE MY HEAD IF WE GET TO THIS POINT, I WAS DOING SO FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS. ONE OF THEM WAS I TRULY HOPED IT WOULD MOTIVATE EVERYONE INVOLVED TO GET ACROSS THE FINISH LINE, EVERYONE LOVES TO SEE A TRAIN WRECK. ME HAVING TO GO THROUGH THAT, I'D LIKE TO THINK IT'S A GOOD MOTIVATION AND IT HELPS US GET ACROSS THE FINISH LINE. ALTHOUGH, I WILL VERY QUICKLY AND READILY [03:30:01] ACKNOWLEDGED A LOT OF HARD WORK WENT INTO THIS BY A LOT OF DEDICATED, AND VERY INTELLIGENT PEOPLE. THE OTHER THING TOO, IS THAT I JUST THINK OUR CONSTITUENTS EXPECT A BIT OF SKEPTICISM WHEN THEY HEAR OF ANOTHER DEVELOPER COMING IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS. ESPECIALLY, WHEN I'VE BEEN AROUND AS LONG AS I HAVE, WHICH ISN'T ALL THAT LONG, BUT I'VE SEEN IT PLENTY OF TIMES OF MOVING GOALPOST AND DRAWING NEW LINES IN THE SAND, AND COMING BACK AND SAYING, WELL, THIS IS WHAT WE SAID BEFORE, BUT CONDITIONS HAVE CHANGED AND WE JUST CAN'T REALLY MAKE THOSE COMMITMENTS WORK. THESE ARE STRATEGIES AND TACTICS THAT ARE USED, AND WE'RE TIRED OF. I'LL GO AHEAD AND WRAP UP HERE. I JUST WANT TO SAY IT'LL BE MY PLEASURE TO SHAVE MY HEAD. I HOPE WE CAN USE THAT MOMENT TO CELEBRATE THIS SHARED VICTORY, AND TO PROMOTE, AND SHOWCASE WHAT GREAT WORK IS GOING ON HERE, AND TO REALLY TAKE A MOMENT OF GRATITUDE, TO THANK, AND APPRECIATE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WORKED SO HARD ON THIS. JUST REALLY PLEASED WITH TONIGHT'S TIMELINE OF COMMUNICATIONS. LOOKING AT THAT SLIDE, THE ENTIRE AGENDA ITEM, THE HISTORY OF THIS PROJECT, REALLY JUST WANTED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE NOBLE ASPIRATIONS A LOT OF FOLKS HAVE COME TO THIS WITH. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TOO, AND I'M A BELIEVER IN THE FACT THAT WE'RE GOING TO CROSS THE FINISH LINE ON THIS. I THINK A LOT OF TIMES WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING, EVERYBODY BECOMES A BOGEYMAN. IT'S HARD TO DO, AND THEN IT DOESN'T WORK OUT AND FINGERS START GETTING POINTED. I WANT TO MAKE SURE. EXCUSE ME. I JUST WANT TO END ON THE NOTE THAT WHEN WE STOP LOOKING PAST EACH OTHER AND HUDDLE UP AND TRY TO FIGURE THIS OUT, WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. I'M REALLY HOPEFUL THAT THE NARRATIVE OF THIS WHOLE STORY AT THE END OF THE DAY, FIRST OF ALL, IT PUTS PEOPLE IN HOMES, AND SECOND OF ALL, IT BECOMES A MODEL AND A NICE STORY, A BEACON THAT WE CAN POINT TO AND THAT OTHERS CAN POINT TO REALLY TAKE THIS MODEL AND APPLY IT HORIZONTALLY AND IN DIFFERENT CONTEXTS ALL THE CROSS ARIZONA AND ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY. I'LL STOP. >> PROCEED. PERFECT. THANK YOU, VICE MAYOR, LET'S MAKE A DIFFERENCE. LET'S DO IT. I LIKE THOSE WORDS. THE TIMELINE OF COMMUNICATIONS HERE. THE BIGGEST THING IS JUST TO SAY ROERS DID DO THEIR DUE DILIGENCE INITIALLY WHEN THEY LOOKED IN THIS PROJECT. THEY DID SEE YOUR INCENTIVE POLICY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. REACHED OUT TO HOUSING STAFF. HOUSING STAFF SAID YES, JUST NOT FUNDED, SO HOW CAN WE DO THAT? MAYBE WE CAN PUT THE BUDGET AND MAYBE WE CAN PUT THE BOND MONEY THERE, SO THEN THERE WERE MONTHLY COMMUNICATIONS BACK-AND-FORTH WITH HOUSING OF JUST WHAT IS THE SOLUTION, AND WE JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS. AS YOU GUYS KNOW, THERE'S MARIN VICE MAYOR-COUNCIL, THE GENERAL OBLIGATION BOND PASSED 442, THAT HAD $20 MILLION IN THE BOND, AND THE ONE THING WE JUST WANT TO FOCUS ON IS THERE'S $5 MILLION ALLOCATED TO INCENTIVIZE THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO INCORPORATE AFFORDABLE RENTAL UNITS AND THE GOAL WAS TO CREATE 400 OR 500 UNITS. NOW WE ABSOLUTELY KNOW THAT THAT IS FUNDED. THAT COUNCIL MAY DECIDE ON THE OBLIGATION BOND, BUT YOU'RE WAITING ON A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE HOUSING COMMISSION. WE'RE GOING TO GO TO THE HOUSING COMMISSION AND REQUEST THAT THEY PUT SOME OF THE BOND MONEY INTO THE INCENTIVE FUND. I DON'T KNOW HOW WILL DO THAT OR WHAT WILL HAPPEN THERE, BUT WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THAT REQUEST, AND THAT'S NOTHING FOR YOU. BUT AGAIN, THAT INCENTIVE POLICY, IT'S CODIFIED. IT ALLOWS FOR WAIVERS AND REIMBURSEMENTS OF DEVELOPMENT FEES. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT KEVIN AND ROERS WAS ALWAYS LOOKING AT IN TERMS OF BRINGING THIS TO MARKET. TO GET TO VICE MAYOR COMMENT OF CHANGE, WHY IS THIS COMING? BECAUSE DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS, THEY CHANGE ALONG THE WAY, BUT THIS WAS ALWAYS PART OF SOMETHING THAT ROERS WAS PART OF OR ROERS WAS THINKING OF. THE INCENTIVE POLICY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, YOU'RE ELIGIBLE IF YOU HAVE 10% OF YOUR UNITS. WE REALLY DO, AND I THINK ONE REASON HOUSING WAS EXCITED WHEN KEVIN AND ROERS FIRST CAME TO THEM WAS, THIS IS 30 YEARS OF AFFORDABILITY. THEY DON'T NORMALLY DO THAT. THEY NORMALLY STICK TO 15. THAT'S AFFILIATED WITH THE STATE FUNDING, 100% OF THE UNITS ARE AFFORDABLE IN THE 60% AMI, SO THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT AS CODIFIED, THIS PROJECT WORKS, WE JUST NEED MONEY IN THE FUND. [03:35:03] THEN THIS ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS, AS TO A POTENTIAL WE'RE WORKING WITH AMY IN BUILDING PERMITS RIGHT NOW AS TO WHAT OUR IMPACT FEES WILL BE, SO I'M NOT SAYING THIS WILL BE OUR IMPACT FEES. THIS WAS AN ATTACHMENT TO A LETTER TO HOUSING IN MARCH THAT WAS OUR ESTIMATION OF FEES AT THAT TIME. AGAIN, WE'RE NOW SOLIDIFYING WORKING WITH AMY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE FEES ARE THERE. A STATEMENT IS, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A PROPOSAL, IT WOULD BE NICE IF THE INCENTIVE POLICY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING COULD BE FUNDED. IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF THE PRO FORMA FOR ROERS AND BEING A COMMUNITY PARTNER. AGAIN, THIS IS A VERY LARGE, EXPENSIVE DEVELOPMENT. THE $1.8, $2.1 MILLION THAT ROERS COULD BE ELIGIBLE TO FROM THE INCENTIVE FUND IS A SMALL PORTION, BUT A VERY IMPORTANT PORTION. THE TWO WAYS THAT WE THINK IT COULD BE DONE TO THE FUND OR GENERAL FUND MONEY PUT INTO THE FUND AND THAT IS MY STATEMENT. NOT A QUESTION. DID I DO OKAY? KEVIN IS NOT SURE. [LAUGHTER] THOSE ARE IDEAS. I HAVE IDEAS. >> YOU SAID IT. BUT WHAT I WAS EXPECTING YOU TO SAY IS, CURRENTLY UNDER THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS, THERE'S A COMMITMENT FOR WHAT, 190 UNITS? >> CORRECT. >> IS THERE A STATEMENT FROM YOU OR ROERS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THOSE ARE GOING TO BE DELIVERED AND IF ANYTHING IS NEEDED IN ORDER TO DELIVER THEM? >> VICE MAYOR. >> BECAUSE I WOULD CALL THAT THE HISTORY. >> COUNCIL, THE STATEMENT WOULD BE AND KEVIN CAN JUMP IN. I'LL DO A QUICK STATEMENT. IN ORDER TO DELIVER 221 UNITS, MONEY THAT WAS AVAILABLE THROUGH THE INCENTIVE POLICY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING WAS ALWAYS PART OF THE PRO FORMA, AND THEREFORE, I CAN'T REQUEST IN ORDER TO MAKE 221 UNITS WORK. AS WALTER SAID, WE DON'T WANT TO SAY WE CAN'T DO IT. WHAT WOULD KEVIN DO? KEVIN CAN COME UP AND ANSWER. VALUE ENGINEER. I DON'T KNOW. >> HEY, LINDSEY. >> IS THAT ENOUGH? >> WELL, I'M TRYING TO STICK TO THE AGENDA HERE, SO I'M THINKING OF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. THE DEVELOP AGREEMENT SAY 221, CORRECT? >> CORRECT. THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT SAYS ONE UNIT. >> SO THAT'S WHY I PHRASE THE QUESTION AS IN ORDER TO DELIVER THE 190 OR WHATEVER'S IN THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT IS ANYTHING NEEDED BY ROERS. >> ONE HUNDRED AND NINETY. MAYOR COUNCIL ROERS WAS ALWAYS CONTEMPLATING. BY THE WAY, I JUST GOT RETAINED RECENTLY. ROERS, KEVIN, THEY DO ALL THIS ON THEIR OWN. THEY ACTUALLY ARE SUPER UNCOMFORTABLE THAT THEY HAVE A LAWYER TALKING BECAUSE THEY NORMALLY DO THIS. I JUST GOT RETAINED BECAUSE HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE HE COULD GET ACROSS THE FINISH LINE. THE PRO FORMA ALWAYS INCLUDED THE CODIFIED PROGRAM OF THE INCENTIVE POLICY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. >> WAS THAT IN THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT? >> NO, IT WAS NOT. >> SO THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT DIDN'T MENTION THE NEED FOR THAT AT THE TIME? >> MAYOR KEVIN? I'M NOT NORMALLY USED TO ANSWERING KEVIN UP HERE. NO, BUT WE DID UPDATE THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT TO SAY ANYTHING IN THE CODE THAT WAS AVAILABLE TO US IS UNAVAILABLE TO US. >> SURE. >> THIS WAS CODIFIED. >> SURE THING. >> COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS HAS A STATEMENT. >> I APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION AND ESPECIALLY THE HISTORY, BUT I AM GOING TO SAY THAT IT'S REALLY PRETTY FRUSTRATING TO SIT UP HERE AND LISTEN TO INFORMATION THAT REALLY ISN'T ABOUT WHAT WAS ON THE AGENDA. I HEARD KEVIN SAY SEVERAL TIMES ABOUT THE AGENDA, AND THERE WAS A REASON FOR THAT. WE'RE ALL PROFESSIONALS IN THIS ROOM, AND I WOULD HAVE HOPED THAT WE WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO STICK TO THE AGENDA. IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS NOT IMPORTANT. I GET THAT. BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO UNDERSTAND OUR POSITION. I JUST FEEL THAT I JUST NEEDED TO SAY THAT, BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. >> WHERE WE ARE IS AT THE STATEMENT ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT AND WHAT WAS LISTED UNDER THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, IS THERE ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION [03:40:03] REGARDING ANY OF THE AMENDMENTS OR DOES STAFF HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD? COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR. I GOT A LITTLE CONFUSED WITH THE EXCHANGE BACK AND FORTH. LINDSEY, I HEARD YOU SAY THAT NOT IN THE ORIGINAL DA, BUT IN ONE OF THE AMENDMENTS THERE WAS LANGUAGE ABOUT WHATEVER IS IN THE CODE THAT WOULD APPLY, CORRECT, AND THAT'S PART OF THE HISTORY. THERE WAS AN AMENDMENT TO THE DA THAT ADDED THAT LANGUAGE IN THERE. IS THAT A CORRECT STATEMENT? >> MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS, I'LL HAVE TO LOOK BACK, BUT WE DID ENSURE THAT ANY NEW CODE AMENDMENTS COULD BE AVAILABLE TO US IF WE WANTED THEM. PART OF TIMBER SKY, YOU'RE IN DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS YOU LOCK IN CODES AT THE TIME BECAUSE THE CODE AT THE TIME IS WHAT YOU BUILD YOUR PROJECT TO. I DO REMEMBER PUTTING IT IN WORKING WITH CHRISTINA THAT WE HAD IF THERE WERE CODE AMENDMENTS THAT WERE HELPFUL TO US, LIKE THE MODIFICATION THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS. THAT WAS A CODE AMENDMENT POST-TIMBER SKY, AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT INNOVATIVE THAT YOU PUT IN THERE IF YOU HAVE 100% AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THE FIRST ONE WAS FOUNDATION FOR SENIOR LIVING THAT MANY OF YOU WERE ON COUNCIL WHEN YOU APPROVED THAT ONE THAT WE COULD EITHER USE THE OLD CODE, BUT WE COULD ALSO USE ANY NEW CODE PROVISIONS. MAYOR AND COUNCIL, I THOUGHT THAT ANYTHING THAT WAS CODIFIED THAT WAS AVAILABLE TO USE BY THE DEVELOPER. >> I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THE HISTORY PART OF IT THAT AT ONE OF THE MODIFICATIONS, THERE WAS LANGUAGE ADDED. >> WHAT I'LL DO, IS I'LL ASK CHRISTINA RUBALCAVA WHO WORKED ON THIS WITH LINDSEY TO FIND THAT LANGUAGE THAT LINDSEY'S REFERENCING, AND SHE CAN SEND AN EMAIL TO COUNCIL, SO YOU HAVE WHAT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT, AND SHE'LL CONFIRM IT WITH LINDSEY THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING. >> SORRY. I CAN'T SEE HANDS RAISED. DID CHRISTINA HAVE SOMETHING? >> SORRY, MAYOR. YES. CHRISTINA RUBALCAVA, SENIOR ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY. THERE IS A PROVISION IN THE FOURTH AMENDMENT TO THE TIMBER SKY DA THAT IS TITLED DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS, AND SAYS THAT THE DEVELOPERS OF THE WORKFORCE HOUSING, SO EITHER THE OWNERSHIP, THE HABITAT, OR THE RENTAL THE ROERS PROJECT MAY ELECT TO USE CURRENT ZONING CODE PROVISIONS WHERE ADVANTAGEOUS TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THOSE AFFORDABLE UNITS. >> THANK YOU, CHRISTINA. >> YOU BET. >> IS THERE ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT ANY OF THE AMENDMENTS OR WHERE WE'VE COME FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS PROJECT UP THROUGH THE FOURTH AMENDMENT? NO. >> MAYOR COUNCIL SARAH DARR, I'D LIKE TO OFFER SOME CLARIFICATION ON ONE OF THE SLIDES PROVIDED EARLIER. MAY I GO BACK TO YOUR SLIDE ON HISTORY? THERE WE GO. A COUPLE OF ITEMS HERE THAT I WOULD LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CLARIFY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THE HOUSING COMMISSION HAS NOT STATED THAT IS $20 MILLION BOND PASSED. THERE IS A PROVISION WITHIN THE BOND FOR MONIES TO BE USED TO INCENTIVIZE RENTAL UNITS. SO YES. WAS THAT TO BE USED THROUGH THE INCENTIVE POLICY? NOT NECESSARILY AS AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT THE BOND AS DESIGNED BY THE HOUSING COMMISSION, THIS IS BOND COMMITTEE APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL, APPROVED BY THE VOTERS, CONTAINS A PROVISION TO PROVIDE INCENTIVES TO ENCOURAGE MARKET RATE DEVELOPMENTS TO INCLUDE AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS. THAT'S THE LANGUAGE FROM THE PUBLICITY PAMPHLET. IT'S TOO MANY LETTERS THERE. SO YES. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY STATED THAT. THAT IS YES, IT WAS APPROVED. WE HAVE HAD MULTIPLE CONVERSATIONS WITH ROTORS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT. THEY DID INQUIRE IN MARCH ABOUT REQUESTING FUNDING THROUGH WAIVERS OR REIMBURSEMENTS. [03:45:05] STAFFS' REPLY TO THAT INQUIRY SPECIFICALLY STATES AS TO THE USE OF HIPAA INCENTIVE POLICY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING FUNDS, THE CURRENT BALANCE IN THAT ACCOUNT IS NOT SUBSTANTIAL ENOUGH TO ASSIST IN A MEANINGFUL WAY ON A LARGE PROJECT LIKE WOODY MOUNTAIN APARTMENTS, WHAT IT WAS CALLED AT THAT POINT IN TIME. WE MAY END UP CREATING A PROGRAM THAT USES BOND MONEY TO FUND THE EXISTING INCENTIVE POLICY AS PART OF THE PROCESS DESCRIBED ABOVE. THE PROCESS DESCRIBED ABOVE WAS YES, THIS WAS AN E-MAIL FROM JENNIFER MICHELSON TO MR. STURGEON. HI, KEVIN. YES. THERE WAS CONSENSUS AMONG CITY STAFF NOT TO COMMIT BOND FUNDS TOWARD AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS UNTIL A NEW PROGRAM IS CREATED. THIS IS SOMETHING I HAD TALKED TO YOU ABOUT LAST WEEK. WE HAD MET WITH LEGAL AND PROCUREMENT, TAKING THEIR GUIDANCE THAT OUR BEST BET TO STAY SAFE WITH THIS BOND FUNDING WAS TO CREATE A NEW PROGRAM UNTIL A NEW PROGRAM IS CREATED, REVIEWED, AND APPROVED BY COUNCIL. THAT TIMEFRAME IS NOT CERTAIN AT THIS POINT, BUT IT IS A PRIORITY FOR US THIS YEAR. ONCE ELIGIBILITY AND PROGRAM REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN DETERMINED, I WILL ABSOLUTELY REACH OUT TO ANY DEVELOPERS WHO HAVE REQUESTED FUNDS OR HAVE PROPOSED AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS IN FLAGSTAFF AND WE'LL LET EVERYONE KNOW HOW TO APPLY FOR THE FUNDS. THE DATE OF THAT ONE IS APRIL 12TH. IT'S IN RESPONSE TO THE LETTER OF '23. IS IT ELIGIBLE? YES. HAVE WE EVER HAD MONEY OF THAT LEVEL WITHIN THE HIPAA FUND? NO. THE HIGHEST BALANCE I RECALL HISTORICALLY IN HIPAA FUND IS LESS THAN $500,000. THAT IS THE FUND THAT HAS TYPICALLY BEEN UTILIZED AS A FIRST-COME, FIRST-SERVE. IT IS NOT COMPETITIVE. I THINK THERE ARE A FEW THINGS HERE THAT HAVE BEEN MIXED TOGETHER OVER TIME. WE HAVE AN EXISTING INCENTIVE POLICY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. THERE ARE TWO PIECES TO THAT. ONE ARE THE REGULATORY PIECES AND THOSE EXIST WITHIN THE ZONING CODE AND THOSE ARE CODIFIED. THE OTHER PIECE IS WHAT WE CALL THE INCENTIVE POLICY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. IT WAS ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL IN 2011. AND THAT'S WHERE THE POLICY TYPE THINGS SUCH AS THIS FINANCIAL EITHER WAIVER OR REIMBURSEMENTS EXIST THAT IS SEPARATE FROM THE PROGRAM BEING CREATED TO UTILIZE BOND FUNDING, GIVEN THE PARAMETERS SURROUNDING BOND FUNDS AND HOW THEY NEED TO BE USED, ETC. WE WERE ADVISED BY LEGAL AND PROCUREMENT THAT WE NEED TO DESIGN A PROGRAM THAT IS OPEN AND COMPETITIVE. THAT WAS THE ADVICE THAT WE HAD ON THAT ONE. >> IT SOUNDS LIKE IF WE WANT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE INCENTIVE POLICY, THAT WE NEED TO PUT THAT ON A FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS SO THAT WE HAVE THE TIME TO REALLY GET INTO ALL OF THE DETAILS OF IT. >> YEAH. THAT WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION, MAYOR. THIS IS JUST TO CORRECT THE RECORD FOR A SECOND, SO GIVING A LITTLE LEEWAY HERE. WE'RE NOT HERE TO DISCUSS THE INCENTIVE POLICY, THE PARAMETERS OF IT, WHETHER IT CAN BE USED HERE. >> IN THE APRIL '23, HOUSING DOES NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO NOT DISTRIBUTE BOND FUNDS. WE ARE WORKING WITHIN A SYSTEM WITHIN OUR ORGANIZATION. THIS IS THE PATH. THIS IS THE PATH WE TOOK THE HOUSING COMMISSION, THIS IS THE PATH WE HAVE DISCUSSED WITH YOU GUYS. IN THAT E-MAIL, IT DOES ACKNOWLEDGE THAT BOND FUNDS MAY END UP IN THAT. THAT IS NOT THE DIRECTION THE PUBLIC PROCESS THAT WE HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH HAS PROVIDED. IN JUNE '23, I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHERE THAT STATEMENT CAME FROM BECAUSE IN MAY THE SCHEDULE I SHARED WITH YOU LAST WEEK SHOWING COMPLETION OF ADOPTION OF THE PROGRAM ANTICIPATED BY COUNCIL IN DECEMBER. SO GOING TO THE CIRCLE CHARTS WITH THE ARROWS LEADING TO EACH BOX STARTING IN MAY WITH CREATING THAT SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE HOUSING COMMISSION AND COMING TO COUNSEL IN DECEMBER. AGAIN, REMEMBER I SAID WE BOOKED A BUNCH OF TIME AT THE END OF THAT, THAT IT'S LIKELY WE CAN SPEED THAT UP. IN FACT, WE HAVE. WE WERE HERE LAST TUESDAY. I BELIEVE WE HAD SENT THE POLICY TO LEGAL. WE GOT COMMENTS BACK FROM LEGAL TODAY. THANK YOU, LEGAL. WE HAVE SOME THINGS TO FIX WITHIN LANGUAGE, SOME THINGS TO PAY ATTENTION TO WITH THAT. WE ARE PLANNING TO BE ON THE HOUSING COMMISSION THIS MONTH AND [03:50:04] MOST LIKELY IN FRONT OF COUNCIL IN OCTOBER, POTENTIALLY FOR APPROVAL LATE OCTOBER OR EARLY NOVEMBER. HOWEVER, THE SCHEDULE PRESENTED IN MAY WAS THROUGH DECEMBER. SO THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO CORRECT THOSE. [OVERLAPPING] >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU. SARAH. DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION? >> ACTUALLY, I HAVE A COMMENT WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME AS WHAT YOU JUST SAID, BUT SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. I THINK WE'VE EXHAUSTED THE AGENDA ITEM FOR TONIGHT. FIRST POINT. SECOND POINT IS I THINK SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE WE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE AN EXECUTIVE SESSION, WHICH WILL GIVE US THE FULL RANGE OF POSSIBILITIES AND WHAT THE RULES ARE AND WHAT THE RESTRICTIONS ARE, ETC. SO I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO AN E SESSION ON THIS. THANK YOU. >> CITY MANAGER, YOU HAD A COMMENT? >> THANK YOU. I'LL TRY TO ALSO KEEP IT WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF THE HISTORY OF THIS AND I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST SOME NEXT STEPS OR ASK ABOUT NEXT STEPS. SOUNDS LIKE COUNSEL MEMBER MCCARTHY WOULD LIKE TO SEE ONE OF THOSE NEXT STEPS BE AN EXECUTIVE SESSION. I WANT TO TOUCH ON THAT IN JUST A SECOND. BUT AS WE SUMMARIZE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN SAID TONIGHT THAT I DON'T THINK ARE REALLY DISPUTED AND ARE CERTAINLY PART OF THE HISTORY HERE IS THAT THERE HAS BEEN A DIALOGUE BETWEEN ROTORS AND WITH CITY STAFF ABOUT THE POSSIBLE USE OF INCENTIVE FUNDS, EITHER EXTENSIVELY DERIVING FROM A BOND YET TO BE APPROVED OR OTHERWISE. WHEN I SAY OTHERWISE, I GO TO THE FOURTH AMENDMENT IN THE DEVELOP AGREEMENT. THANK YOU, CHRISTINA RUBALCAVA, FOR POINTING OUT WHERE THAT IS SUB-SECTION 3, DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS, WHERE IT SPEAKS TO DEVELOPERS MAY ELECT TO USE CURRENT ZONING CODE PROVISIONS WERE ADVANTAGEOUS TO THE DEVELOPER. I THINK THAT'S AN UNDERLYING PREMISE IN THESE DISCUSSIONS THAT OCCURRED BETWEEN THE DEVELOPER AND STAFF. I MENTIONED THAT BECAUSE I THINK IT IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE HISTORY THAT THIS DIALOGUE HAS BEEN OCCURRING FOR SOME TIME AND IT'S BEEN OCCURRING CONSISTENT WITH WHAT THE FOURTH AMENDMENT SET FORTH. COUNCIL WILL BE SEEING SOON RESULTS FROM THE HOUSING COMMISSION ON THE RECOMMENDATION FOR HOW TO DISTRIBUTE THAT $5 MILLION OF THE BOND FUND THAT IS COMING YOUR WAY. THAT RECOMMENDATION WILL NOT INCLUDE UTILIZING THAT AS PART OF THE EXISTING INCENTIVE POLICY. I KNOW THAT BECAUSE I INQUIRED OF THE HOUSING COMMISSION WHETHER THAT WAS A POSSIBILITY AND THEY RESPECTFULLY SAID NO, THAT THAT WAS NOT GOING TO BE PART OF THE RECOMMENDATION. SO WE KNOW THAT AND THAT'S PART OF THE PUBLIC RECORD NOW. THAT'S NOT ANYTHING HAPPENING OUTSIDE OF CITY HALL. THAT'S WHAT THE OUTCOME HAS BEEN AND THAT ONE'S COMING YOUR WAY. AS I PONDERED NEXT STEPS IN THIS, AND I WANT TO BE RESPECTFUL OF STICKING WITH THE AGENDA HERE TONIGHT. BUT THERE IS AN ASK AND IT'S COMING FROM THE DEVELOPERS ON THIS. HOW DO WE ADVANCE THAT BACK TO THIS COUNCIL? I THINK THE ASK AS I SEE IT NOW, MAKING SOME ASSUMPTIONS AS TO WHAT COMES FORWARD FROM THE HOUSING COMMISSION AS A RECOMMENDATION TO THE COUNCIL IS, ARE THERE OTHER REVENUES THAT SHOULD BE EXPLORED ON THIS AND DOES COUNCIL HAVE AN APPETITE TO CONSIDER THAT? IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS LANGUAGE WITHIN THE FOURTH AMENDMENT OF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT AND IN ACCORDANCE WITH JUST DIALOGUE THAT HAS BEEN OCCURRING BETWEEN THE DEVELOPER AND STAFF ON THIS. IT'S FINE TO HAVE THAT IN EXECUTIVE SESSION. I WOULD ADVOCATE THAT WE HAVE IT AT LEAST AT SOME POINT DOWN HERE, WHERE AS I HAVE ADVOCATED MANY TIMES, WE CAN HAVE THE DEVELOPER AND THE DEVELOPER'S TEAM PRESENT THEIR CASE. IT'S TRANSPARENT, IT'S AN OPEN DIALOGUE, IT'S GOING TO BE A BALANCED DISCUSSION BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ALL INTERESTS AT THE TABLE. SO I FOR ONE THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE A RECOMMENDED APPROACH. HAVE IT SPECIFICALLY AGENDIZED ON POINTS SO THAT WE HAVE THE FREEDOM AND WIGGLE ROOM TO TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS IN DETAIL WITHOUT STRAYING BEYOND THE PARAMETERS OF WHAT'S BEING AGENDIZED. I THINK TONIGHT'S HISTORY WAS VERY INSTRUCTIVE. BROUGHT TO LIGHT A LOT OF THINGS. I THINK COUNCIL HAS BENEFITED FROM IT. I HAVE. BUT I DO THINK IT'S AN UNFINISHED DISCUSSION UNTIL WE GET THIS BACK IN FRONT OF THE COUNCIL AND WITH NO PRESSURE. IF THE COUNCIL DECIDES THAT WHATEVER THE ASK IS, THAT IT'S NOT INTERESTED IN PURSUING THAT AT LEAST THE DEVELOPER HAS THAT OUTCOME. [03:55:02] MY PERSONAL VIEWPOINT IS THE DEVELOPER IS OWED THAT OUTCOME BECAUSE THE INQUIRIES HAVE BEEN MADE AND THERE HAS BEEN DIALOGUE. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH. COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET. >> THANK YOU. FIRST OFF, I WANT TO THANK STAFF AND WALTER AND KEVIN AND LINDSEY, EVERYONE FOR BEING HERE AGAIN FOR THIS DISCUSSION, IT IS IMPORTANT. WE HAVE OUR HOUSING EMERGENCY HAPPENING. I PERSONALLY FEEL LIKE THIS IS OUR CHANCE TO TACKLE IT HEAD-ON. THESE ARE UNITS READY TO GO. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS DISCUSSION HAPPEN DOWN HERE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE TO FIGURE OUT SOME OTHER REVENUE OPTIONS. I THINK THIS SHOULD HAPPEN SOONER THAN LATER. I UNDERSTAND WE HAVE A PROCESS AND I AM GREAT WITH FOLLOWING THE PROCESS. BUT WE'RE READY TO GO AND WE OWE IT TO THE COMMUNITY. WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR A LONG TIME. I FEEL LIKE WE OWE IT TO THE COMMUNITY TO AT LEAST EXPLORE DIFFERENT OPTIONS TO GET THIS PROJECT GOING, TO GET THESE UNITS READY FOR OUR COMMUNITY WHO DESPERATELY NEEDS AFFORDABLE HOUSING. THANK YOU. >> THANKS. COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS. >> I CAME ON THE COUNCIL DECEMBER 22. I ASKED FOR A HISTORY OF THIS PROJECT. THAT'S WHAT I'M HERE TONIGHT TO HEAR WAS THE HISTORY. WHEN YOU THROW ALL THAT OTHER STUFF, THEN IT'S CONFUSING. IT'S NOT THAT I DO NOT WANT AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THIS COMMUNITY BECAUSE I ABSOLUTELY DO. BY ASKING FOR US TO STICK TO OUR AGENDA, I DO NOT FEEL IS SAYING THAT I AM NOT IN SUPPORT OF HOUSING. WE NEED TO GET THAT CLEAR AND I WANT THAT ON THE RECORD. THANK YOU. >> WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT THEY'RE AT LEAST, KHARA. COUNCIL MEMBER HOUSE. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR. I'M GOING TO TRY AND BE VERY BRIEF BECAUSE MY THROAT IS NOT COOPERATING WITH ME THIS EVENING, BUT I DID WANT TO JUST EXPRESS THANKS TO EVERYONE THAT SPOKE THIS EVENING, AND PARTICULARLY FOR THE FOCUS ON THE HISTORY OF THIS PROJECT. I BELIEVE PART OF OUR INTENTION AND GETTING THAT HISTORY WAS TO HAVE A FULLER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT HAS TAKEN FOR US TO GET TO THIS POINT IN TRYING TO BRING ALL OF THIS PROJECT TO OUR COMMUNITY. AS COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET SAID, WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF WHAT WE'VE DECLARED AS A HOUSING EMERGENCY. THERE'S URGENCY FOR THIS WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY. I WANT US TO REALLY BE MINDFUL OF THE TIME THAT WE'RE PUTTING INTO ALL OF THIS PROJECT, INCLUDING THESE CONVERSATIONS IN HOPES THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING IS ADVANCING TOWARDS THE FINISH LINE AND NOT MOVING BACKWARDS. UNFORTUNATELY, I FEEL LIKE PART OF THE CONFUSION THAT CAME INTO THIS CONVERSATION WAS A MOVEMENT POTENTIALLY BACKWARDS. WHAT I'M REALLY HOPING FOR IS THAT IN THE COMING CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAVE, WE FIND WAYS TO KEEP IT MOVING FORWARD AND GET THIS OVER THE FINISH LINE AND BRING THESE HOUSING UNITS TO OUR COMMUNITY TO ACHIEVE WHAT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO, WHICH IS TO ADDRESS THE HOUSING EMERGENCY THAT WE'VE DECLARED. THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. I AM HOPEFUL THAT WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE MOVING THIS FORWARD AND I LOOK FORWARD TO THE ONGOING AND FUTURE CONVERSATIONS ON THIS. >> THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER HOUSE. I'M HEARING THAT THE COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION OF OUR INCENTIVE POLICY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND A DISCUSSION ABOUT AND SOONER RATHER THAN LATER, WHERE WE GO FROM HERE IN TERMS OF RURAL, SPECIFICALLY, AND THIS PROJECT SPECIFICALLY. LET'S MOVE ON TO PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. I DON'T SEE ANY. INFORMATIONAL ITEMS 2 FROM MAYOR, COUNCIL, [11. Informational Items To/From Mayor, Council, and City Manager; future agenda item requests] AND CITY MANAGER, FUTURE AGENDA ITEM REQUESTS. LET'S START WITH COUNCIL MEMBER HOUSE. >> I'M GOING TO PASS THIS EVENING. THANK YOU, MAYOR. >> THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET. [04:00:01] >> JUST A QUICK REMINDER THAT THIS WEEKEND IS PICKING IN THE PINES AND I KNOW I'LL BE THERE. COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY WON'T BE THERE. IT'S A LOT OF FUN. >> THANK YOU. COUNSELOR MCCARTHY. >> I'LL BE WORKING ALL DAY SUNDAY [LAUGHTER] AND ENJOYING THE REST OF IT. I THINK I MENTIONED THAT THE AGENDA CAME OUT ON THURSDAY THIS WEEK. THAT'S REALLY COOL. I HOPE WE CAN KEEP DOING THAT. THANK YOU. >> VICE MAYOR. >> NOTHING FURTHER THIS EVENING. THANK YOU. >> COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS? >> YES. WELL, ONE THING I ATTENDED NAU COMMUNITY LUNCHEON AND I THINK THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT THEY HAD A COMMUNITY LUNCHEON. THE ONE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WERE IMPORTANT FOR US TO HEAR SO THAT WE COULD HELP DISPEL ANY RUMORS IS THAT THERE ARE NOT 40,000 STUDENTS ON THE MOUNTAIN CAMPUS. EVERYBODY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THAT AND HEAR THAT. WHEN WE HEAR PEOPLE SAYING WE'VE GOT 40,000 STUDENTS, WE DO NOT. THEN JUST AS A NOTE OF INFORMATION, THERE ARE OVER 10,000 BEDS ON THE UNIVERSITY CAMPUS. I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO ALSO HEAR. SOMETIMES THEY'RE NOT ALL FULL. PART OF THAT MEANS THAT STUDENTS DON'T WANT TO LIVE ON CAMPUS EVEN THOUGH THERE IS ROOM FOR A LOT OF THEM. THAT'S JUST PART OF THE CONVERSATION AND PART OF WHAT WE NEED TO HEAR. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, IT WAS A GOOD LUNCHEON AND I'M BELIEVING THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT, CITY MANAGER? THANKS. THAT'S ALL. >> COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR. LAST WEEK WE HAD THE INDIGENOUS COMMITTEE MEETING AND I JUST WANTED TO ANNOUNCE THAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON AN INDIGENOUS PEOPLES DAY. THE THEME IS GOING TO BE REFLECTING, HONORING, AND RESILIENCE. WE HAVE A WEEKLY WORK GROUP THAT'S WORKING ON THE DATE AND THE VENUE AND ALL THE OTHER DETAILS. WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT THAT. ALSO, I WANTED TO MENTION THAT EARLIER THIS WEEK I HAD A TEAMS MEETING WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS SWEET WAS PART OF THAT MEETING WITH THE HOUSING DIRECTOR FROM TEMPE, IRMA, HALLO, BEKAN AND SHE WENT OVER A NEW INNOVATIVE OUT-OF-THE-BOX THINKING TO ADDRESS LOW-INCOME HOUSING AND WORKFORCE HOUSING. I'M REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THAT. I'VE SHARED IT WITH THE ATTORNEY AND CITY MANAGER, AND HOPEFULLY, WE'LL HAVE A DISCUSSION ON THAT SOON BECAUSE AS COUNCIL MEMBERS SWEET SAID WE DO HAVE A HOUSING EMERGENCY. WE'RE NOT IN COMPETITION WITH SUSTAINABILITY, BUT WE DO NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT IT AND PUSHING IT AND THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX, AND ADVANCING ALL THE EFFORTS. I'M HAPPY TO HEAR THAT WE'RE MAKING SOME PROGRESS ON OUR BOND. IT'S ALMOST YEAR SINCE IT'S BEEN APPROVED. I'M AN IMPATIENT PERSON, SO I KNOW I WANT EVERYTHING YESTERDAY, BUT I THINK THE COMMUNITY WANTS IT AS WELL. ALSO, SEE I HAD ONE OTHER. THAT MAY BE IT. ANYWAY, IT WAS A GREAT MEETING WITH IRMA AND I LOOK FORWARD TO EXPLORING WHAT WE CAN DO UP HERE ALONG WITH THANK YOU WALTER AND KEVIN FROM WARS AND LINDSEY. I FELT IT GOT A LITTLE TENSE TODAY, BUT I REALLY LIKE HAVING THESE DISCUSSIONS DOWN HERE BECAUSE THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME I HAVE LEARNED NEW INFORMATION. WHEN YOU HAVE ALL THE PARTIES IN THE ROOM AND WE CAN TALK OPENLY AND PUBLICLY IT REALLY HELPS US IN OUR DECISION-MAKING. INSTEAD OF MAYBE SOMEBODY FORGOT TO MENTION SOMETHING THAT WAS IMPORTANT, THEY DIDN'T. IT JUST HELPS ME AS A COUNCIL PERSON TO MAKE DECISIONS WHEN WE CAN TALK TO EVERYBODY INVOLVED. I HOPE WE DO MOVE THOSE EAST SESSIONS DOWN HERE. I'M AN ADVOCATE FOR THAT AND I LOOK FORWARD TO REALLY CLEANING UP THE LANGUAGE ON THIS ONE CODE THAT SEEMS TO HAVE GOTTEN THIS AND A LITTLE BIT OF A PICKLE. I LOOK FORWARD TO THAT IN THE FUTURE DISCUSSIONS ON HOW WE CAN HELP MOVE THIS PROJECT FORWARD BECAUSE WE ARE IN A CRISIS. IT'S GETTING WORSE, IT'S NOT BETTER, AND I'M EXCITED TO SEE IT MOVE FORWARD. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER. I TOO JUST WANT TO ECHO, THANKS FOR YOU ALL COMING AND THANKS TO STAFF FOR THE WORK THAT YOU [04:05:05] PUT INTO BRINGING THE ENTIRE COUNCIL UP TO SPEED ON THIS PROJECT. THANK MY FELLOW COUNCIL MEMBERS FOR THEIR THOUGHTFUL DELIBERATION AND CREATIVE IDEAS IN FINDING SOME SOLUTIONS TO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TONIGHT. CITY MANAGER, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD? >> YEAH, I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU MAYOR, AND THE COUNCIL FOR YOUR INDULGENCE TODAY. IT WAS A MARATHON. I DON'T KNOW THAT MANY REALIZE THIS, BUT COUNCIL HAS BEEN MEETING SINCE 11:00 THIS MORNING,11:00. BY MY MATH, YOU'RE JUST NOW WRAPPING UP AN 8.5-HOUR DAY. I KNOW YOU'VE COVERED A LOT OF TOPICS, SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT AND YOUR ENDURANCE. >> RIGHT BACK AT STAFF. YOU'VE BEEN RIGHT THERE WITH US. THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.