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OKAY. TODAY IS TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 27TH.
[1. Call to Order NOTICE OF OPTION TO RECESS INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION Pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.02, notice is hereby given to the members of the City Council and to the general public that, at this work session, the City Council may vote to go into executive session, which will not be open to the public, for discussion and consultation with the City’s attorneys for legal advice on any item listed on the following agenda, pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.03(A)(3).]
2024, AND THIS IS A CITY COUNCIL'S WORK SESSION.MY. ALL RIGHT, SO LET'S CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER.
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN TO THE MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC THAT AT THIS WORK SESSION, THE CITY COUNCIL MAY VOTE TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION, WHICH WILL NOT BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR DISCUSSION AND CONSULTATION WITH THE CITY'S ATTORNEYS.
FOR LEGAL ADVICE ON ANY ITEM LISTED ON THE FOLLOWING AGENDA.
CAN WE HAVE ROLL CALL? MAYOR DAGGETT HERE.
HERE. COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY.
COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET. WOULD YOU LEAD US IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE? PLEASE STAND IF YOU'RE ABLE.
A PIECE OF THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA THE REPUBLIC.
ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH THE.
THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS.
THE LAND ACKNOWLEDGMENT, PLEASE.
THESE LANDS, STILL INHABITED BY NATIVE DESCENDANTS, BORDER MOUNTAINS SACRED TO INDIGENOUS PEOPLES.
WE HONOR THEM, THEIR LEGACIES, THEIR TRADITIONS, AND THEIR CONTINUED CONTRIBUTIONS.
WE CELEBRATE THEIR PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE GENERATIONS WHO WILL FOREVER KNOW THIS PLACE IS HOME.
WE'RE DOWN TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR.
[4. Public Participation Public Participation enables the public to address the Council about an item that is not on the prepared agenda. Comments relating to items that are on the agenda will be taken at the time that the item is discussed. Public Participation appears on the agenda twice, at the beginning and at the end. If you wish to address the Council at today's meeting, please complete a comment card and submit it to the recording clerk as soon as possible. Your name will be called when it is your turn to speak. You may address the Council up to three times throughout the meeting, including comments made during Public Participation. Please limit your remarks to three minutes per item to allow everyone an opportunity to speak. At the discretion of the Chair, ten or more persons present at the meeting and wishing to speak may appoint a representative who may have no more than fifteen minutes to speak.]
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION ENABLES THE PUBLIC TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL ABOUT AN ITEM THAT IS NOT ON THE PREPARED AGENDA.AND IF YOU WISH TO ADDRESS COUNCIL ABOUT AN ITEM THAT IS ON THE AGENDA, PLEASE FILL OUT A COMMENT CARD AND YOU WILL BE CALLED WHEN THAT ITEM IS DISCUSSED, THERE IS A THREE MINUTE LIMIT AND YOU WILL SEE A TIME CLOCK AS YOU'RE SPEAKING.
SO IT LOOKS LIKE OUR FIRST PUBLIC COMMENTER.
HELLO AGAIN. MAYOR, VICE MAYOR AND COUNCIL.
MY NAME IS JILL STEVENSON AND I'M A VOLUNTEER WITH NORTHERN ARIZONA CLIMATE CHANGE ALLIANCE.
TRANSPORTATION IS THE LARGEST SOURCE OF CARBON IN THE UNITED STATES.
IF THE ARIZONA CORPORATION COMMISSION RECOMMENDS LEGISLATION TO SUPPORT COMMUNITY CHOICE AGGREGATION, WHICH IS OTHERWISE KNOWN AS COMMUNITY SOURCE ENERGY, ALL OF FLAGSTAFF COULD BE POWERED BY CLEAN, GREEN ELECTRICITY.
TEN OTHER STATES ARE SUCCESSFULLY DOING THIS.
WHAT A GREAT EXAMPLE WE COULD BE FOR ARIZONA.
WE DO COMMEND YOU FOR THE POSITIVE STEPS THE CITY HAS MADE IN PURCHASING SOME ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND THE CREATIVE USE OF ELECTRIC SCOOTERS IN FACILITATING INTER BUILDING TRIPS FOR CITY STAFF.
MANY CITIES ACROSS OUR COUNTRY ARE RAPIDLY CONVERTING THEIR FLEETS OF VEHICLES TO ELECTRIC.
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WE HOPE THAT WITH EVERY NEW VEHICLE PURCHASE, THE EV OPTION IS SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED, THOUGH UPFRONT COSTS MAY STILL BE SOMEWHAT HIGHER THAN FOR GAS POWERED VEHICLES.THE ENSUING COSTS OF MAINTENANCE CHARGING FOR EVS COMPARED TO MAINTENANCE, AND GAS FOR INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES MORE THAN MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE IN A VERY SHORT TIME.
UNDOUBTEDLY, YOUR SUSTAINABILITY DEPARTMENT CAN PROVIDE PERTINENT FACTS AND FIGURES.
WE NEED TO QUICKLY TRANSITION TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES TO CUT A MAJOR SOURCE OF GREENHOUSE GAS.
WE MUST KEEP THE GOAL OF OUR CARBON NEUTRALITY PLAN IN MIND WITH EVERY DECISION.
NEXT UP WE HAVE ALEX PUCCIARELLI.
GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR AND COUNCIL, ALEXANDRA PUCCIARELLI.
AND I'M THE CURRENT PLANNING MANAGER HERE AT THE CITY.
I'M ALSO THE STAFF LIAISON TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
AND THAT'S WHAT BRINGS ME HERE THIS EVENING, IS TO ENCOURAGE ANYONE IN THE COMMUNITY, ANYONE YOU KNOW, WHO HAS AN OPINION, TO PLEASE FILL OUT AN APPLICATION TO JOIN OUR COMMISSION.
WE CURRENTLY HAVE THREE VACANCIES.
THIS IS A VITAL COMMISSION TO THE CITY.
WE HEAR CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS.
WE PROVIDE RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNCIL FOR REZONINGS AS WELL AS SUBDIVISION PLATS, ANNEXATIONS, ETC..
SO IF YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO MAKE THEIR FAMILY PROUD, IMPRESS THEIR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION IS THE WAY TO DO IT.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU, DAPPER DRE.
GREETINGS COUNCIL STAFF, MAYOR, VIRTUALLY.
JUST KIND OF WANT TO SHARE SOME BROADER PICTURE IDEAS ABOUT CAR CENTRISM.
ALTHOUGH WE DID HEAR IN REGARDS TO ELECTRIFICATION.
I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT ROLE, BUT I THINK PLANNING OUTSIDE OF JUST A CAR CENTRIC MODEL IS ALSO GOING TO GO JUST AS FAR AS SOME OF THE TOOLS AND TECHNOLOGY THAT ARE IMPLEMENTED.
WE NEED A MULTIFACETED APPROACH, AND IF WE WERE ALL QUIET FOR A LITTLE BIT, WHAT DO YOU HEAR? YOU PROBABLY EVENTUALLY HEAR CARS.
YOU CAN HEAR CARS ON MOST OF YOUR STREETS, ON MOST OF THE PLACES THAT YOU MIGHT TAKE AS LEISURELY.
IF YOU GO OUT AND HAVE YOUR LUNCH AT WHEELER PARK, YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR NON STOP MOTORS.
THEY'RE GETTING LOUDER AND LOUDER.
THEY'RE GETTING MORE AND MORE COMPETITIVE, IF YOU WILL.
IT'S IT'S LOUD, IT'S LIGHT, BUT ULTIMATELY IT'S DANGEROUS.
AND WE CALL THEM ACCIDENTS, BUT THEY'RE COLLISIONS.
THEY'RE CRASHES, THEY'RE LIFE TAKING HEINOUS EVENTS.
THERE'S A LOT OF BLOOD, THERE'S A LOT OF GORE, THERE'S A LOT OF BAD STUFF THAT HAPPENS.
WHAT DO WE GIVE UP WHEN WE ONLY PLAN FOR CARS? WHEN WE PLAN FOR PEOPLE, THE QUESTION IS HOW CAN WE GET PEOPLE THERE SAFELY? HOW CAN WE GET THERE COMFORTABLY? HOW CAN WE GET THERE TOGETHER? AND WHEN WE PLAN FOR CARS IN A CAR CENTRIC VERSION OF THINGS, WE THINK, WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO PARK? HOW MUCH PARKING DO WE HAVE? DO WE HAVE ON STREET PARKING? DO WE HAVE PARKING LOTS? DO WE HAVE PARKING? WELL, PEOPLE ARE SMART.
THE ALL YOUR PARADES ARE TESTAMENT TO THAT.
NEW YEAR'S EVE IS A TESTAMENT TO THAT.
FARMERS MARKET IS A TESTAMENT TO THAT.
IF PEOPLE WANT TO BE SOMEWHERE, THEY'LL FIGURE OUT WHERE TO PARK.
THEY'LL FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THERE.
YOU'VE GOT TO GIVE PEOPLE CREDIT AND NOT JUST CARS.
AND WE CAN'T CONTINUE TO JUST PUT A VAST MAJORITY OF OUR BUDGET INTO CAR CENTRIC PLANNING.
SOMETIMES LET'S DO SOME PEOPLE CENTRIC, LET'S DO SOME WALKABILITY.
LET'S DO ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS, ALWAYS COMPROMISE, MOSTLY FOR THE CAR.
IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE CAR FIRST AND EVERYBODY ELSE SECOND.
AND NO MATTER ATMP VISION ZERO CARBON NEUTRALITY, HOW MANY MORE SAYINGS, ACRONYMS OR PLANNING, YOU
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KNOW, PRODUCT AND JUST PUBLICATION, DO YOU NEED TO SAY THAT PEOPLE WANT TO BE PLACES? AND IF WE PLAN FOR PEOPLE, IT'S BETTER FOR EVERYBODY, NOT JUST PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO PARK.[5. Review of Draft Agenda for the March 5, 2024 City Council Meeting Citizens wishing to speak on agenda items not specifically called out by the City Council may submit a speaker card for their items of interest to the recording clerk.]
COUNCIL, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT THIS AGENDA? ALL RIGHT. SEEING.NO C'S OR Q'S IN THE CHAT, I WILL MOVE DOWN TO CITY MANAGER REPORT.
[6. City Manager Report Information Only]
THANK YOU MAYOR. GOOD AFTERNOON COUNCIL.THIS REPORT JUST HIGHLIGHTS A FEW RECENT EVENTS THAT WE HAVE PARTAKEN IN, INCLUDING THE ACMA, WHICH IS THE ARIZONA CITY COUNTY MANAGERS ASSOCIATION.
IT WAS WONDERFUL TO SEE ALL OF OUR COLLEAGUES AND NETWORK AND LISTEN TO THE MANY GOOD SESSIONS.
ONE OF THOSE SESSIONS INVOLVED A PANEL DISCUSSION WHERE DEPUTY CITY MANAGER JOANNE KEENE PARTICIPATED TO TALK ABOUT BALLOT INITIATIVES.
AND SHE DID A GREAT JOB IN THAT.
AND SO WE SHARED THAT WITH YOU IN THE REPORT AT THE SAME CONFERENCE AND THIS IS NOTABLE, WE HAD REPRESENTATIVES OF NAU PRESENT FOR THE FIRST TIME.
NAU IS NOW A PARTICIPANT IN THE ACMA.
AND WE WERE EXCITED TO SEE INVOLVEMENT INCLUDING ONE OF OUR OWN MPA STUDENTS AT NORTHERN ARIZONA UNIVERSITY, JESSICA KITTLESON.
AND SHE WAS RECOGNIZED ALONG WITH SOME OF HER STUDENT COLLEAGUES.
SO SOME WONDERFUL THINGS HAPPENING.
WANTED TO BRING THAT TO YOUR ATTENTION.
WITH RESPECT TO NAU IN THIS GREAT ASSOCIATION.
RECENTLY AND IT'S ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED, BUT NEVERTHELESS HIGHLIGHTED AGAIN IN MY REPORT IS OUR VISIT FROM VISITOR, PARDON ME, OUR VISIT BY SENATOR KELLY OVER A WEEK AGO.
AND THEN WE MET WITH ECONA AFTERWARD.
WE ALSO IN THE SAME WEEK, HAD A VISIT FROM REPRESENTATIVE COOK, WHO CAME UP FOR THE ATHENA AWARDS, BUT ALSO SPENT SOME TIME WITH A NUMBER OF US THAT AFTERNOON TOURING THE HIGHWAY 180 CULVERT IMPROVEMENT PROJECT.
HE WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN FINDING SOME APPROPRIATION AT THE STATE LEVEL TO HELP FUND THAT PROJECT.
AND THANK THANKS TO THOSE OF YOU WHO PARTICIPATED IN THAT.
THE ATHENA AWARDS WERE WONDERFUL, AS THEY ALWAYS ARE.
WANT TO GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO KATE WYATT, THE ATHENA YOUNG PROFESSIONAL? WE OF COURSE, HAVE WORKED WITH KATE ON A NUMBER OF IMPORTANT TOPICS.
DAVONNA MCLAUGHLIN, ALSO WITH OUR HOUSING SOLUTIONS OF NORTHERN ARIZONA, THE RECIPIENT IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR, AND LISA LAMBERTSON OWNER OF MOUNTAIN SPORTS FLAGSTAFF, THE RECIPIENT IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
IT WAS A WONDERFUL EVENT HIGHLIGHTED WITH A DISCUSSION BY OUR OWN GOVERNOR WHO WAS ATTENDANT.
AND WE ARE ALWAYS HONORED TO HAVE HER PRESENCE HERE.
A WEEK AGO, WE CELEBRATED ENGINEERING WEEK.
WANTED TO MAKE MENTION OF SOMETHING, AND THERE'S A COUPLE OF PHOTOS IN THE REPORT.
PAUL MOOD WITH OUR ENGINEERING DIVISION AND OUR CITY ENGINEER APPLIED SOME OF HIS EXPERTISE WITH THE LOCAL SEVENTH GRADE CLASS.
DID SOME ENGINEERING WORK WITH THE CLASS AND THAT WAS WELL RECEIVED ALSO.
PAUL HAD A VISIT TO TINKER TOPIA, WHERE THEY CONSTRUCTED WOOD TRUSS BRIDGES.
FASCINATING STUFF, I JUST WANT TO GIVE PROPS TO PAUL FOR MAKING TIME ON HIS TIME TO GO VISIT OUR YOUTH AND TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF ENGINEERING. THAT'S ALL IN THE REPORT.
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THANKS. GOOD AFTERNOON MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBERS, HEIDI HANSEN, ECONOMIC VITALITY DIRECTOR.IT WON'T SEEM LIKE IT, BUT I DID.
AS FAR AS THE AIRPORT WAS CONCERNED, IN JANUARY WE HAD A REALLY GREAT START TO THE THE NEW YEAR.
OUR AIRPORT RESCUE, FIRE FIGHTING.
THEY CONTINUE TO DO TRAININGS OUT AT THE AIRPORT.
AS FAR AS AIRPORT MARKETING AND AIR SERVICE ATTRACTION, WE HAVE CLAIRE HARPER, OUR COMMUNICATIONS MANAGER, WHO'S BEEN ACTIVELY OUT, AND I CAN'T EVEN TELL YOU HOW MANY CONFERENCES.
CREATING THOSE RELATIONSHIPS THAT WE NEED THAT I ACTUALLY USED TO DO CONSTANTLY.
AND THEN HER AND BRIAN GALL, THE AIRPORT DIRECTOR, WILL BE GOING TO JUMP START, WHICH IS THE LARGEST, I LIKE TO SAY THE SPEED DATING AIRLINE MEETING THAT THEY HAVE IN THE SUMMER AND JUNE.
AS FAR AS PROJECTS AND GRANTS WE ARE ROLLING DOWN.
SO IT'S DEFINITELY NECESSARY FOR US TO FINISH ALL OF WHAT WE CAN.
SO WE HAVE A HUGE FIRE SPRINKLER PROJECT THAT'S GOING TO BE GOING ON.
SO IF YOU GO TO THE AIRPORT AND IT LOOKS INSANE, IT'S BECAUSE IT IS.
AND THEN PRETTY SOON YOU'RE GOING TO BE SEEING THE HOLD ROOM AREA, MORE OF A GRAB AND GO COFFEE SERVICE, AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT OUTSIDE IN THAT CAFE AREA. THAT WILL ALSO INCLUDE ANOTHER MICRO VISITOR CENTER.
SO LOTS MORE COMING TO THE AIRPORT, A LOT OF EXCITING THINGS YOU'RE GOING TO SEE.
A FENCING PROJECT THAT'S GOING TO BE COMPLETED.
WE HAD TO WAIT TO THE WINTER, GOT OVER TO FINISH THAT, AND THEN WE WILL BE ACTUALLY MAKING CHANGES TO THE THE PARKING LOT THAT'S CLOSEST TO THE AIRPORT. WE'RE GOING TO BE UPDATING THAT AS WELL.
SO NOW WE BEAT OURSELVES, WHICH WE'RE EXCITED TO SEE.
AND THEN MOVING ON TO COMMUNITY INVESTMENT.
WE ARE ALSO GOING TO PARTICIPATE WITH ANY CHANGES AT THE CITY HALL STAIRS.
WE'RE GOING TO BE ACTUALLY HELPING WITH THE RAILINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
WE ALSO WORKING ON THE DOWNTOWN CONNECTION CENTER.
AND THEN WE'RE CONTINUING TO EXPAND THE FLOWERS PROGRAM INTO THE SOUTH SIDE AREA.
SO IN THE SUMMERTIME, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT MORE OF THE HANGING BASKETS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
UTILITY CABINETS CONSTANTLY ARE HAPPENING.
AND THEN I JUST WANTED TO RECOGNIZE CHRISTINE TRUJILLO.
AND SHE WAS IN FRONT OF YOU A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO AS WELL.
MOVING ON TO PARKING SIX KIOSKS HAD TO BE REPAIRED.
AND THE REASON I SHARE THAT IS BECAUSE THEY CONSTANTLY NEED TO BE REPAIRED, BECAUSE PEOPLE LOVE TO MESS WITH THEM ESPECIALLY DRIVE THEIR BIKES INTO THEM AND THEIR CARS INTO THEM. SO IF YOU WONDER WHY WE'RE ALWAYS REPAIRING KIOSKS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE JUST HAVING A LOT OF FUN WITH THEM.
PARK FLAG ALSO MET WITH SOME INTERNAL PARTNERS THIS YEAR, AND THEY'RE DISCUSSING WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO ABOUT GETTING REAL ABOUT TOWING CARS THAT ARE NOT PARKING CORRECTLY.
AND SO WE'RE COMING BACK TO YOU VERY SOON ABOUT THAT.
ABOUT A BOOTING AND TOWING DECISION THAT WE NEED TO WE NEED TO MAKE PARKS, THE PARKING STATISTICS.
WE CONTINUE TO DO BETTER THAN THE YEAR BEFORE.
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AND WE ALSO HAVE A LICENSE PLATE READER.SO I'M JUST WARNING EVERYBODY WE DON'T HAVE TO WALK IN THE SNOW ANYMORE.
SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO DRIVE YOUR CAR, YOU NEED TO PAY FOR YOUR PARKING.
WE DID A FINANCIAL FITNESS AND ACTION PROGRAM, AND IT WAS WITH SUMMIT HIGH SCHOOL, AND THEY BASICALLY INVITED STUDENTS TO PARTICIPATE IN FINANCIAL PLANNING. WHERE WAS THIS? WHEN MY CHILDREN WERE GROWING UP, THEY GOT TO LEARN HOW TO DO A MONTHLY BUDGET AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO I THINK THAT WAS A REALLY GOOD KICKOFF, AND I KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO THOSE THINGS.
THEY ALSO HAVE A HAD A LOCAL FIRST GREEN BUSINESS BOOT CAMP.
THIS BOOT CAMP LET BUSINESSES TEACH CONCERT CONSERVATION PRACTICES.
THAT WILL HELP TO LOWER COST OF DOING BUSINESS.
SO I THINK WE HAVE SOME MORE OF THIS DESIRE TO DO GREEN BUSINESS.
JOY CONE, THEY ARE BASICALLY, WE WELL JOHN SALTONSTALL, HE ACTUALLY WAS HELPING JOY CONE WITH A GRANT THAT WILL HELP THEM TO CONTINUE TO DELIVER IMPROVEMENTS TO THE RAIL SPUR THAT THEY USE TO BRING IN RAW MATERIALS, INNOVATE WASTE.
YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS PROGRAM WHERE WE GIVE OUT $30,000 TO CERTAIN BUSINESSES? FOR THEM TO BE INNOVATIVE WITH CUTTING DOWN WASTE.
AND THAT WILL HAPPEN ON MAY 3RD AND FOURTH.
AND THEN THERE WAS A HELIOS PROJECT THAT THE MAYOR, MAYOR DAGGETT, INVITED US TO PARTICIPATE IN.
AND THIS ONE IS ABOUT EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE TO EXPLORE THE ROBUST DATA OFFERED.
AND THEN IT WILL GIVE INSIGHTS INTO THE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN EDUCATION AND EMPLOYMENT OUTCOMES.
SO AS WE LEARN MORE, WE WILL CONTINUE TO SHARE WITH YOU.
OUR WINTER PROGRAMING HAS BEEN HUGE.
ANYTHING FROM STORY TIMES TO LEGO TIME.
WE ALSO HAD A SPECIAL STORY TIME FOR READ ACROSS AMERICA DAY AND OR ACTUALLY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ONE WHERE MAYOR BECKY DAGGETT WILL BE THERE ON MARCH 2ND. AND THEN AGAIN, WE HIRED THREE NEW MEMBERS OF THE CIRCULATION STAFF FOR IT.
I LIKE TO SHOW THESE PICTURES, ALTHOUGH I DON'T KNOW WHY.
I COVERED UP TWO OF THEM, AND I APOLOGIZE.
WE HAVE CRAFTY CORNERS AT THE LIBRARY, AND I CAN TELL YOU I DON'T.
IT'S INSANE HOW MANY CHILDREN AND THEIR PARENTS COME OUT TO THESE.
AND SO I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW THESE ARE JUST THREE REALLY, REALLY CUTE CHILDREN THAT HAD COME OUT.
BUT I WILL TELL YOU, THEY GET HUNDREDS THAT COME OUT TO THE LIBRARY FOR THESE PROGRAMS. SO I REALLY APPRECIATE THE STAFF TO PUT THEM ON.
HE WON A CITY MANAGER'S AWARD THIS YEAR, AND IT WAS A WELL EARNED.
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, WE HAVE TOURISM.
AND I WANT TO EXPLAIN THESE FIGURES A LITTLE BIT TO YOU.
YOU'RE GOING TO SEE -5.3% IN OCCUPANCY, NEGATIVE SEVEN AND AVERAGE DAILY RATE -11.9 AND REV PAR.
IT'S GOING TO CHANGE YOUR VISITATION NUMBERS.
OUR DAY TRIPPERS ARE GOING TO BE LESS AND OUR OVERNIGHT STAYS ARE DEFINITELY GOING TO DECREASE.
BUT THAT'S NOT JUST THE WHOLE STORY OF OCCUPANCY.
WHAT ALSO HAPPENED IS WE HAVE MORE HOTEL ROOMS THAT HAVE COME ON.
SO THESE AREN'T BAD NUMBERS ACTUALLY AT ALL.
WE'RE ACTUALLY BEATING 2019, 20, 2021 AND 22 MARKETING, MEDIA RELATIONS.
WE ACTUALLY HAD AN ARTICLE ON OUR MUSEUM IN THE SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE.
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WE ALSO HAD A LOT OF SNOW BOWL COVERAGE, EVEN THOUGH WE ONLY HAD 19.6IN OF SNOW ON CHANNEL THREE AND CHANNEL FIVE.WHEN IT COMES TO FILM, WE ISSUED ONE PERMIT, AND THAT PERMIT WAS FOR A DOCUMENTARY DOCUMENTARY WITH THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH SERVICES, WHICH THEY WILL DO A WALK AND TALK INTERVIEW WITH A LOCAL DOCTOR DOWNTOWN TO TALK ABOUT THEIR JOB, WHAT THEY DO.
AND THEN WE'RE ALSO GOING TO HAVE SOMETHING ON THE WEATHERFORD AND ALSO ON A CLIMBING GYM.
SO THIS PERSON WANTS TO COVER A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT SPOTS TO FILM.
DISCOVER FLAGSTAFF ALSO HAD GONE TO OH, THEY HAD A SCOUT THAT WANTED TO COME FROM FOCUS LONDON CONFERENCE AND THEY'RE TALKING TO THEM.
AND THEN THEY ALSO HAD ANOTHER LOCATION SCOUT FROM THE PRODUCTION COMPANY BEHIND FOR LOVE ISLAND.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT'S ABOUT, BUT OBVIOUSLY IT'S COMING TO FLAGSTAFF.
ALSO, FOR THE WEBSITE, OUR INTERNATIONAL MARKETS ARE INCREASING.
SOME OF THE LANDING PAGES THAT WERE REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT WERE THINGS TO DO.
OUR TOP POST WAS CHEF SAM GREENLAW RECEIVING THE JAMES BEARD AWARD FOR BEST CHEF SOUTHWEST.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW BIG THAT IS.
OUR SECOND TOP POST WAS A FLAGSTAFF THEN AND NOW SERIES THAT WE'RE DOING, AND THEN AN INSTAGRAM REEL THAT WE DID WAS ON BEARIZONA, AND OUR SOCIAL MEDIA PERSON IS ROCKING IT.
WE ARE WORKING WITH VISIT USA FRANCE.
WE'RE ALSO WORKING WITH VISIT USA AUSTRALIA BECAUSE AGAIN, INTERNATIONAL IS COMING BACK.
WE'RE GETTING LOTS OF STORIES ON STARGAZING AND THEN THE ARIZONA OFFICE OF TOURISM.
WE DID A LOS ANGELES RECEPTIVE TOUR OPERATORS SALES MISSION.
WE HAD 33 TOUR OPERATORS THAT CAME FROM ALL OVER EUROPE.
WE HAD SOME FROM JAPAN AND SOME OTHER INTERNATIONAL MARKETS.
AND WHAT'S GREAT ABOUT THAT IS THAT WE ONLY HAD TO GO TO LA FOR THIS.
SO WE HOPE TO GET SOME TOURS OUT OF THAT.
IT'S GOING TO SKIP THROUGH SOME OF THESE PICTURES MEETINGS.
AND THAT WILL EQUATE TO $570,000.
JUST THIS MONTH WE BOOKED A LEAD WHICH WAS 149,500, WHICH IS OVER 500 ROOMS FOR A VERY HAPPY HOTEL.
VISITOR SERVICES WERE DOING GREAT.
THEY HAD ANSWERED 519 WINTER RECREATION HOTLINE CALLS BECAUSE WE MANAGED THAT FOR THE CITY AND THE COUNTY AND SKATED THE STATION LAST YEAR.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT ANY LONGER.
THE PLATFORM IS OLD, IT'S NOT DOING WHAT WE NEED IT TO DO ANYMORE.
I JUST WANTED TO SHOW YOU SOME OF THE ARTWORK THAT WE DID FOR SOME OF OUR ADS.
FEBRUARY IS BREW MONTH, AND SO WE DID A KIND OF A FUN FLAG AND HOPS TYPE OF CARTOONI.
WE'RE GETTING SO MANY PEOPLE LOOKING AT THESE ADS, IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY.
WE ALSO DID SOME THINGS IN THE MAGAZINE ON THE CITY OF SEVEN WONDERS.
WE ALSO DID STUFF AT SPRING TRAINING AFTER CATCHING A GAME AT THE FIELD PLANT A VISIT TO THE PARK.
HIGHLY UNLIKELY THEY'RE GOING TO COME TO FLAGSTAFF.
AND WHAT WE DO IS WE ACTUALLY GEOFENCE THEM WHEN THEY'RE AT THAT SPRING TRAINING, WHERE IT ACTUALLY COMES UP ONTO THEIR PHONE, AND WE BASICALLY JUST ANNOY THEM UNTIL THEY DECIDE TO PLAN A TRIP.
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WE'RE DOING THESE COLLAGES, AND THEN AGAIN, I JUST WANTED TO SHOW YOU WHAT WE DO WHEN WE ANNOY THEM.AND WE GEOFENCE THEM ON THEIR PHONE.
AT ANY RATE, I KNOW THAT'S A LOT.
I THINK IT JUST GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT WE'RE WE'RE DOING A LOT.
AND SO IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM, BUT IT'S BEEN A GREAT START OF THE OF THE YEAR AND EVEN THE TOURISM NUMBERS. AGAIN, I DON'T WANT ANY NEGATIVES TO FREAK YOU OUT.
WE HAVE MUCH MORE DEMAND AND WE HAVE A LOT MORE SUPPLY IN OUR COMMUNITY.
SO THOSE ARE GOING TO EVEN OUT.
ANY QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, HEIDI, AND I HOPE ALL OF YOUR STAFF IS WATCHING THE MEETING, BECAUSE I JUST WANT TO SAY BRAVO TO ALL OF YOU FOR EVERYTHING THAT YOU'RE DOING AND THE DYNAMIC WAY THAT YOU ALWAYS DO IT.
SO MUCH GETS DONE THROUGH ECONOMIC VITALITY.
AND I'M I, FOR ONE, AM GRATEFUL.
AND I SEE THAT COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS HAS A QUESTION.
I'M EXCITED TO CONTINUE TO HEAR CONVERSATIONS GOING ON WITH BREEZE AIRLINES.
DO YOU HAVE A THERMOMETER READING ON HOW YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO GO, OR IS IT TOO EARLY? MAYOR. COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS SO OUR LAST CONVERSATION WITH BREEZE, THEY WERE TALKING TO US ABOUT WHAT WERE OUR WHAT ARE OUR NEEDS AND OUR NEEDS IS SOMETHING IN CALIFORNIA.
AND IF, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'VE EVER FLOWN INTO JOHN WAYNE.
EXCELLENT. VERY LITTLE HASSLE.
SO THEY WERE HOPING TO GET SOMETHING GOING.
BUT AGAIN, IT ALL HAS TO DO WITH PLANE AVAILABILITY AND PILOTS.
SO MARCH 5TH IS OUR KIND OF OUR SECOND MEETING TO SAY, YOU KNOW, DO YOU THINK YOU CAN MAKE THE NUMBERS WORK? WE ALSO HAD A MEETING LAST MONTH, I THINK IT WAS ABOUT SIX WEEKS AGO, ACTUALLY, WITH UNITED TO ASK THEM WHAT WAS THE POSSIBILITY OF THEM COMING BACK BECAUSE THEY REALIZED THAT WE HAD LOADED ALL THEIR PLANES.
AND THEY SAID THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT POSSIBLY COMING BACK IN 2026 BECAUSE THEY HAVE 700 PLANES ON ORDER RIGHT NOW, AND THEY ARE TRAINING THEIR PILOTS. SO AGAIN, WE'RE JUST GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE REALLY TRANSPARENT WITH YOU AND THE COMMUNITY ON WHAT WE'RE HEARING.
WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO GO AND AND GET INTO THOSE MEETINGS AND, AND TALK WITH OTHERS.
GREG KEEPS ASKING ME, OUR CITY MANAGER, ABOUT SOUTHWEST SINCE THEY HAVE PRETTY GOOD RATES.
WE ACTUALLY COULD MANAGE A PLANE THAT SIZE.
BUT THE POINT IS, ONCE THEY COME IN, YOU HAVE TO FILL THE SEATS.
SO IF THE BIGGER THE PLANE, THE MORE SEATS WE HAVE TO FILL.
AND THEY WOULD EXPECT THAT THEY BE FILLED.
SO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER WE GET IN THERE, WE CAN DEFINITELY OCCUPY.
YEAH. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST, I APPRECIATE THAT.
THANK YOU. HEIDI. GREAT PRESENTATION AS ALWAYS.
WHICH IS IRONIC, BECAUSE I DO FEEL LIKE YOU ACTUALLY LEFT A COUPLE THINGS OUT.
I KNOW YOU KNOW THAT. THERE YOU GO.
AS THE TOURISM COMMISSION LIAISON, I WAS IN ATTENDANCE FOR LAST WEEK'S MEETING.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IMPRESSED ME WAS THE NEW FILM OFFICE MARKETING CAMPAIGN OR BRANDING EFFORT.
I THINK IT'S REALLY BEAUTIFUL.
AND IF ANY OTHER COMMENTS YOU HAVE ON IT TO FILL US IN.
VICE MAYOR, WHICH CAMPAIGN DID YOU JUST SAY? I HEARD HALF OF IT. THE FILM OFFICE, HOW WE ARE.
OH, YEAH. JUST SO YOU KNOW, WE DECIDED THAT OUR OTHER ARIZONA CITIES HAD ACTUALLY BRANDED THEMSELVES A DIFFERENT FILM LOGO, SO I ASKED STAFF IF THEY WOULD.
AND THEN WE DECIDED WE WANTED TO ALSO GET SOME ADS PREPARED.
SO THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW WE'RE FILM FRIENDLY AND ALL THAT.
I'LL DEFINITELY BRING THAT BACK, EVEN IF IT'S AT ANOTHER PUBLIC PARTICIPATION.
I DON'T HAVE MY LAPTOP WITH ME RIGHT THIS MINUTE, BUT IT'S PRETTY COOL.
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AND BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SHOW IS SOME ACTUAL AREAS WHERE YOU CAN YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE A FILM CREW BEING ABLE TO BE OUT IN THE FOREST AND FILMING, BUT LEAVING NO TRACE.SO WE WANT WE DON'T WANT TO CONCERN PEOPLE ABOUT FILM FILMING HERE.
WE WANT THEM TO KNOW THAT FILMING ANYONE THAT COMES IN FILMS INTO A DESTINATION WILL DEFINITELY TAKE MAJOR PRECAUTIONS ON ANYTHING THAT THEY'RE USING AND THEY'RE DOING.
BUT THE BIG THING IS IT'S A HUGE ECONOMIC IMPACT BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO STAY HERE.
THEY HAVE TO PUT A HEAD IN A BED AND THEY HAVE TO EAT.
SO WE WOULD LIKE TO WELCOME THAT TYPE OF THING BECAUSE THEY COME AND THEN THEY GO AND THEY DEFINITELY PAY ATTENTION TO HOW THEY LEAVE IT. SO I'LL DEFINITELY SHOW THAT TO YOU NEXT TIME.
ANYTHING ELSE? WELL THANK YOU VERY MUCH, HEIDI.
THANK YOU. MAYOR. APPRECIATE IT.
MAYOR AND CITY MANAGER, I THINK THAT YOU HAD SOMETHING ELSE THAT YOU WANTED TO ADD.
IS THAT CORRECT? IT'S VERY CRACKLY.
CITY MANAGER, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT YOU WANTED TO ADD? THANK YOU, MAYOR, AND THANK YOU COUNCIL.
YOU KNOW, I TALKED ABOUT THE ATHENA AWARDS.
CERTAINLY WANT TO AGAIN, AS WE DID BEFORE AT THIS DAIS IS RECOGNIZE ALL OF THOSE WHO WERE NOMINATED.
WONDERFUL TO SEE ALL OF OUR COMMUNITY LEADERS UP THERE ON THE STAGE.
OUR OWN INDIGENOUS COMMISSIONER, MARIA ZAVALA.
SHE'S WITH THE INDIGENOUS COMMISSION, AS MENTIONED, WAS NOMINATED FOR THE YOUNG PROFESSIONAL AWARD.
SO ANOTHER GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENT HERE AND SOMEBODY WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION.
SO I THOUGHT I WOULD EXTEND PROPS THERE.
THANK YOU, ROSE, FOR THE REMINDER.
AND WITH THAT MAYOR AND COUNCIL, I WILL CONCLUDE.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU, CITY MANAGER.
[7. 2024 Amendments to Engineering Design Standards, TITLE 13 Staff will provide an overview of the proposed amendments to the Engineering Design Standards and ask Council to provide initial feedback on the proposed amendments, concerns with any amendments, and any sections the Council would like to review and discuss in more detail. ]
GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR AND COUNCIL.I'M DAVE MILLIS, DEVELOPMENT ENGINEER.
SO I'M HERE TO MAKE A PRESENTATION ON OUR AMENDMENTS TO THE ENGINEERING STANDARDS FOR 2024.
YOU KNOW, THESE ARE PRIMARILY OUR STREETS, WATER, SEWER GRADING, ETC..
THERE ARE A FEW CRITERIA THAT RELATE TO PRIVATE DEVELOPMENT, BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF TITLE 13 APPLIES TO, YOU KNOW, THOSE IMPROVEMENTS THAT EVENTUALLY BECOME THE PROPERTY OF THE CITY TO OWN AND MANAGE IN PERPETUITY.
THE LAST UPDATE FOR THE ENGINEERING STANDARDS WAS IN 2017.
THEY'VE TYPICALLY BEEN UPDATED ABOUT EVERY THREE YEARS.
AS WE ALL KIND OF REMEMBER AROUND THAT 2020 TIME FRAME, SOME THINGS HAPPENED IN THE WORLD THAT KIND OF DERAILED SOME OF OUR PROJECTS, TRYING TO MOVE OVER TO ALL ELECTRONIC PLAN REVIEW A LOT OF THINGS.
ANYWAY, WE'VE HAD THIS HIGH ON OUR PRIORITY LIST, HAVE GOTTEN ENOUGH STAFF AND TIME TO GET A COMPREHENSIVE AMENDMENT UPDATES TO OUR CODE PUT TOGETHER.
THESE AMENDMENTS ARE MORE ADMINISTRATIVE IN NATURE, INTENDED TO CORRECT INCONSISTENCIES AND ERRORS IN CODE TO CLARIFY VAGUE PORTIONS OF CODE.
YOU KNOW, WE'VE INCORPORATED THE ELECTRONIC PLAN REVIEW PROCESS.
OUR CODES STILL REFERENCE THE OLDER PAPER TYPE PLANS OVER THE FRONT COUNTER PROCESS THAT WE USED.
[00:40:06]
YOU KNOW, CANDIDLY, UP UNTIL COVID KIND OF FORCED EVERYTHING DIGITALLY.AND IT'S ONE OF THE BENEFITS FROM THAT.
I THINK WE'RE WE'RE SAVING A LOT OF PAPER AND OTHER COSTS BY DOING THAT.
THE MARICOPA ASSOCIATION OF GOVERNMENTS IS A IS A STATEWIDE STANDARD RELATING TO PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE, WHICH OUR CODES REFERENCE TO. BUT THE THE MAG STANDARDS HAVE BEEN UPDATED AND WE WERE REFERENCING OUTDATED CODES.
WE REFLECT CURRENT CONSTRUCTION AND DESIGN PRACTICES AS THOSE COME ACROSS.
AND THEN WE ADDRESS ISSUES THAT WE ENCOUNTER JUST DURING THE INTERPRETATION AND IMPLEMENTATION OF EXISTING CODES AND TRY TO GET THOSE UPDATED. SO LIKE I MENTIONED, THIS ROUND OF UPDATES IS INTENDED PRIMARILY TO BE ADMINISTRATIVE TYPE CLEANUP IMPROVEMENTS, NOT DIRECTLY RESPONDING TO THE BROADER POLICY OBJECTIVES THAT ARE THE NEXT ROUND.
AND THEN THE FOLLOWING ROUND WHICH WE'VE ALREADY STARTED MEETING ON AND WILL WILL BEGIN WORKING ON WE'LL HAVE MORE SUBSTANTIVE CHANGES WHEN IT COMES TO SOME OF THOSE THINGS WITH TRANSPORTATION AND, AND OTHERWISE.
THE INTENTION OF THIS ROUND IS TO BE NEUTRAL OR REDUCTION ON BALANCE.
THERE MAY BE CERTAIN ITEMS IN HERE THAT THAT MIGHT INCREASE CONSTRUCTION COSTS, OTHERS DECREASE.
WE THINK THAT ON BALANCE THEY ARE AT WORST NEUTRAL.
AND I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY OF THE PUBLIC COMMENTS.
A LARGE CONCERN THAT THESE CHANGES WILL SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASE CONSTRUCTION COSTS.
THE PROCESS FOR FOR AMENDING THE STANDARDS OF HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED THROUGH A COMMITTEE OF STAFF FROM ENGINEERING, TRANSPORTATION, WATER SERVICES, PUBLIC WORKS, HOUSING AND SUSTAINABILITY.
WE WORK THROUGH REGULAR MEETINGS TO PUT THESE TOGETHER AND ALSO ON AN ONGOING BASIS, KEEP OUR LIST OF FEEDBACK FROM COMMUNITY PARTNERS. THE PUBLIC INPUT PROCESS FOR THESE UPDATES HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE THE 6TH OF DECEMBER.
AND YOU CAN SEE I DON'T NEED TO READ THEM ALL OFF, BUT WE'VE WE'VE MADE A PRESENTATION AT COMMISSIONS THE BUSINESS ADVOCACY DIVISION OF THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, TWO PUBLIC MEETINGS.
I WILL NOTE THAT THIS 21ST OF FEBRUARY, COMMISSION ON INCLUSION AND ADAPTIVE LIVING WAS NOT HELD DUE TO A POSTING CONCERN.
IT WAS SO THAT ONE WE WERE GOING TO GO DISCUSS FURTHER CONCERNS WITH THEM, BUT THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO HOLD THAT MEETING DUE TO NOT POSTING THE AGENDA ON TIME.
SO I'M JUST GOING TO GO THROUGH SOME HIGHLIGHTS AND THEN AT THE END, MORE THAN HAPPY, IF ANYONE YOU KNOW REALLY WANTS TO DIG INTO SOMETHING MORE DEEPLY, YOU PROBABLY SAW THERE'S A LOT OF PAGES IN THERE.
SO I'M JUST GOING TO HIT A FEW BULLETED HIGHLIGHTS OF SOME OF THE MAJOR AREAS THAT WE'VE FOCUSED ON, AND THEN I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO GO INTO DEPTH ON ANYTHING AS YOU MIGHT NEED.
SO THE ENGINEERING STANDARDS ALLOW FOR MODIFICATION REQUESTS, WHICH ARE ESSENTIALLY IN CERTAIN INSTANCES, FOR EXAMPLE, MAYBE A MINIMUM SLOPE OR A LOCATION OF A SIDEWALK.
SOMETIMES SITE CONSTRAINTS PREVENT A DESIGNER OR DEVELOPER FROM MEETING THE STANDARDS.
OUR CURRENT CODES STATE THAT COST IS NOT A CONSIDERATION.
BUT WE ADDED SOME LANGUAGE THAT SAYS COST IS A CONSIDERATION AND ADDED SOME SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS FOR A, A BASIS FOR PROVIDING THOSE COSTS.
WE HAVE HISTORICALLY SEEN DISCUSSIONS THAT SOMETIMES HAVE COME TO, TO YOU ALL, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, DURING SOME OF THE DISCUSSIONS WITH NIH WHERE THERE ARE NUMBERS BEING DISCUSSED.
[00:45:08]
PREVIOUSLY WE DIDN'T HAVE A CODIFIED WAY TO REALLY DETERMINE IT'S KIND OF WHO'S NUMBERS ARE THE NUMBERS THAT ARE TO BE USED.SO WE HAVE A STANDARDIZED PROCESS FOR THAT.
WATER SERVICES IN PARTICULAR, HAS BEEN HAVING ISSUES WITH IMPROVEMENTS BEING CONSTRUCTED IN IN EASEMENTS FOR WATER AND SEWER, CAUSING THEM DIFFICULTIES IN ACCESSING THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU HAVE EASEMENTS LIKE SAY, IN BACKYARD ALLEY TYPE SITUATIONS.
SO WE'VE UPDATED SOME OF THAT TRAFFIC RESTRICTIONS.
THIS IS KIND OF A BIG ONE WHERE WE ARE REQUIRING SOME SCHEDULING AND CRITERIA FOR PROVIDING PUBLIC NOTICE WHEN THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT TRAFFIC CONTROL TO BE PLACED IN THE ROADWAY THAT COULD AFFECT NOT ONLY IN THE ROADWAY, BUT IN THE RIGHT OF WAY.
WE HAVE SOME TECHNICAL CHANGES TO WATER AND SEWER SOME APPROACH GRADES BEING ALLOWABLE, APPROACH GRADES TO INTERSECTIONS BEING INCREASED, WHICH IS ACTUALLY A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT ALLOWANCE BEING ADDED TO OUR CODE.
THAT HELPS GIVE THE DESIGNERS A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBILITY, AS IN DESIGNING ROADWAY INTERSECTIONS.
DRIVEWAY PAVING REQUIREMENTS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN IN THE CODE, BUT HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT FOR MANY APPLICANTS TO FIND IN THE CODE, AND SO THEY SOMETIMES ARE SURPRISED BY THEM.
AND THEN ANOTHER ONE THAT PROBABLY GENERATED THE MOST DISCUSSION DURING OUR PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD IS THE ALLOWANCE FOR ROLL CURB AND THIS IS ONLY IN CERTAIN NEW SUBDIVISIONS WITH NARROWED LOTS PARKWAY.
THERE'S A WHOLE SET OF ADDITIONAL CRITERIA THAT WE ARE ALLOWING WHERE ROLL CURB CAN BE USED AGAIN, JUST IN NEW SUBDIVISIONS SUBJECT TO THESE SMALL LOT SIZES.
AND AFTERWARDS, IF YOU'D LIKE TO GO INTO MORE SOME OF THE CONSIDERATIONS THERE, WE CAN.
BUT THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF CHALLENGES WITH GETTING DRIVEWAYS ON IN THE, IN THE CORRECT LOCATION AT THE TIME THAT A SUBDIVISION HAS BEEN PUT IN.
SO THIS WAS ONE OF THE REQUESTS THAT CAME FROM THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY.
HOWEVER, WE HAVE ALSO HEARD IN OUR PUBLIC COMMENTS THERE'S THERE ARE CONCERNS FROM MORE OF A PEDESTRIAN THE INCLUSION AND ADAPTIVE LIVING CONCERNS WITH ROAD CURBS ARE MORE DIFFICULT TO MOUNT, PARTICULARLY BY PEOPLE IN WHEELCHAIRS. WE HAD SOME TRAFFIC SIGNAL CHANGES.
WE'VE UPDATED SOME OF THE FOOT'S DETAILS.
SIGN, SIGNAL AND PAVEMENT MARKING UPDATES, AND WE'VE ADDED A SECTION FOR COMMERCIAL DUMPSTER ACCESS.
THIS IS ONE OF THE ONES THAT DOES AFFECT PRIVATE.
A PROPERTY WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE DUMPSTER ENCLOSURES ARE NOT PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS PER SE, BUT THEY NEED TO BE ACCESSED BY OUR SOLID WASTE COLLECTION VEHICLES. AND SO THIS IS GOING TO BE USEFUL FOR DESIGNERS SO THAT THEY HAVE A STANDARD TO LOOK AT.
DIFFERENT ITEMS THAT WE'VE OUTLINED HERE ON THIS SLIDE.
ALSO. WE HAVE SOME DISCUSSIONS ONGOING ABOUT SOME, SOME POSSIBLE WAYS TO REDUCE THE TOTAL BURDEN OF ON ON WATER SERVICES AND WHERE THE LINE STARTS AND STOPS BETWEEN PRIVATE AND PUBLIC HYDRANTS, IN
[00:50:06]
PARTICULAR ON LARGER DEVELOPMENTS.BUT THAT'S KIND OF A DISCUSSION FOR A FUTURE ROUND OF UPDATES.
BUT IT COULD BE A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT CHANGE.
AND WITH THAT THAT ENDS MY PRESENTATION.
SO. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR I HAVE ALL OF THE DOCUMENTS IF YOU'D LIKE SAVED ON HERE.
IF YOU'D LIKE ME TO OPEN ANYTHING UP AND GO INTO ANYTHING.
I'M GOING TO TAKE QUESTIONS NOW.
AND THEN WE HAVE A COUPLE PUBLIC COMMENTERS.
SO IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS, I'D ASK THAT YOU HOLD THEM UNTIL AFTER PUBLIC COMMENT.
BUT LET'S TAKE SOME QUESTIONS.
CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE SLIDE? THE REASONS FOR AMENDMENT SLIDE TOWARDS THE BEGINNING.
I HAD STARTED JOTTING DOWN SOME NOTES WHEN I SAW THIS.
AND THEN YOU BROUGHT UP THE NEXT SLIDE.
AND IT SORT OF ALLEVIATED A LOT OF MY CONCERNS OR THE CRITIQUE I WAS GOING TO MAKE.
BUT IF YOU, IF YOU CAN MAYBE GO BACK TO THE OTHER ONE, BUT TOGGLE BETWEEN THESE TWO.
I AM CURIOUS ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE'S NO MENTION OF THE ATMP HERE, I BELIEVE THAT THE THE ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION MASTER PLAN WOULD BE A GREAT REASON FOR SOME OF THESE UPDATES.
IT SEEMS LIKE YOU HAVE IT QUEUED UP AND YOU'RE YOU'RE SENSITIVE AND AWARE OF THAT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WITH WITH RESPECT TO SOME OF THE UPDATES I DIDN'T REALLY SEE THAT THERE'S MINDFULNESS OF THE ATMP ALREADY.
AND I THINK THAT THE ATMP SHOULD BE PART OF THE, THE PSYCHE OF THE CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU'RE EVEN HAVING NOW.
SO I JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO SORT OF RESPOND TO THAT.
YEAH, I THINK THAT WE HAVE, I GUESS THE BEST WAY I COULD TRY TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION IS TO SAY THAT.
THESE VARIOUS AMENDMENTS, PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO THINGS LIKE WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, LEVEL OF SERVICE OR VMT, KINDS OF THINGS, ROADWAY, STREET SECTIONS.
THERE ARE A HOST OF BROADER IS THAT SOME OF THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR? EVEN IF YOU GO INTO WHAT SOME OF THOSE UPDATES ARE, A COUPLE SLIDES IN FURTHER IN THERE'S A COUPLE SLIDES THAT YOU GO THROUGH.
I WOULD THINK THAT YOU COULD MAKE AN ARGUMENT FOR REFERRING TO THE ATMP IN YOUR, IN THE PARAMETERS OF YOUR CONVERSATION FOR EACH ONE OF THESE BULLET POINTS.
AND SO THAT'S JUST AND MAYBE YOU DO DO THAT AND MAYBE IT IS PART OF THE CONVERSATION.
AND THEN LATER WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT VALUES AND PRIORITIES.
I THINK THEY'RE MORE INTEGRATED THAN THAT.
I THINK THE INTENTION OF THESE WAS TO GET THE CLEANUP DONE, TO PREPARE US FOR WHAT WE RECOGNIZE IS A WHAT NEEDS TO BE A BROADER, MORE HOLISTIC LOOK AT THE ENGINEERING STANDARDS.
I THINK THAT COMBINED WITH THAT, WE'VE THAT AS I MENTIONED, WE'VE BEEN PLAYING CATCH UP ON THIS AND THAT, YOU KNOW, JUST, YOU KNOW, WITHIN DEVELOPMENT ENGINEERING SPECIFICALLY, WE'RE NOT SO MUCH ON THE POLICY SIDE, BUT IN THE DAY TO DAY, LIKE ADMINISTERING THE CODE AND, AND USING THE CODE RATHER THAN, THAN KIND OF THESE BROADER YOU KNOW, POLICY LEVEL SHIFTS THAT REALLY NEED TO BE NOT ONLY WITHIN ENGINEERING STANDARDS, BUT LIKELY, YOU KNOW, ZONING CODES, STORMWATER, ALL SORTS OF OF CODES.
[00:55:07]
I KNOW THAT THERE ARE ALSO THERE'S ALSO A CODE AUDIT GOING ON CURRENTLY, WHICH WE DIDN'T FEEL IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO KIND OF TRY TO FRONT RUN THAT WITH, WITH THINGS.SO OUR INTENTION TO HAVE THIS WHERE WE HAD THINGS TEED UP WHERE ALL THE THE MORE BECAUSE ADMITTEDLY THESE ARE THE MORE BORING KIND OF TECHNICAL MUMBO JUMBO ISH TYPE STUFF TO MOST PEOPLE, AND NOT THE REALLY INTERESTING THING, BUT BECAUSE THEY WERE SO FAR BEHIND, THE OTHER CONCERN THAT WE HAD IS PARTICULARLY FROM DEVELOPMENT ENGINEERING, WHO JUST DEALS WITH ADMINISTERING THESE ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS, IS THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT IS A MUCH BROADER CONVERSATION WHEN YOU BRING THE THESE BROADER SHIFTS IN THE ATMP AND TALKING ABOUT COMPLETELY OR MAYBE NOT COMPLETELY, BUT SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGING HOW TIAS OR OTHER THINGS ARE DONE.
AND WE HAD THE CONCERN THAT, CAN WE JUST GET THIS PIECE CLEANED UP SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE ADMINISTERING CODE AS AN EFFICIENT MANNER AS POSSIBLE, CONCURRENT WITH THIS BROADER THINGS, BUT IT WAS NOT INTENDED IN ANY WAY AS TO INDICATE THAT THIS IS SOMEHOW A HIGHER PRIORITY FOR US.
BUT JUST THAT THERE WERE STUDIES AND AUDITS IN PLACE.
AND IN THE MEANTIME, COULD WE KIND OF TEE THIS, TEE THIS UP SO THAT OUR, OUR BASELINE, WHICH WAS ALREADY OUT OF, YOU KNOW, THE THREE YEAR CYCLE THAT HAS TRADITIONALLY BEEN DONE AT LEAST THAT WAS IN PLACE.
SO AS WE ENTER THESE BROAD THINGS, WE DON'T HAVE LIKE A WATER SERVICES UPDATE TO, YOU KNOW, A WATER METER DETAIL WAITING AS PART OF A LARGER ENGINEERING STANDARD UPDATE.
WELL, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT RESPONSE.
YOU KNOW, COUCHING IT IN TERMS OF PLAYING CATCH UP.
JUST TO PREPARE THE WAY FOR THESE CONVERSATIONS.
MAKES A LOT OF SENSE, AND IT'S A FAIR POINT.
I'M ASSUMING THAT YOU'RE, I'M ASSUMING THAT AT SOME LATER POINT YOU'RE GOING TO COME BACK AND TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE IN DEPTH ABOUT PRIVATE HYDRANTS.
BUT CAN YOU EXPLAIN? ARE WE TALKING ABOUT WATER HYDRANTS OR FIRE HYDRANTS AS WE USED TO CALL THEM? YES, ABOUT FIRE HYDRANTS AND WHERE THE LINE BETWEEN PUBLIC AND PRIVATE.
CURRENTLY THE THE HYDRANTS ARE PRIMARILY ALMOST UNIVERSALLY PUBLIC IN OUR CURRENT STANDARD REQUIRES ALL NEW ONES TO BE PUBLIC, BUT THERE ARE MANY OTHER MUNICIPALITIES.
THIS IS PRIMARILY WHEN IT TALKS ABOUT HYDRANTS.
WHEN YOU GET ON SITE OF MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS OR LARGE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS, THE CITY ENDS UP BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR THE OWNERSHIP, MAINTENANCE AND PERPETUITY OF HYDRANT LOOPS THAT BASICALLY SERVE ONE PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT.
AND SO THERE ARE WAYS THAT ARE COMMONLY DONE BY MANY MUNICIPALITIES WHERE THERE'S A DEMARCATION LINE BETWEEN THE PUBLIC MAIN WATER MAINS IN THE STREET AND THE PRIVATE MAINS ON SITE.
BUT THAT'S A VERY DIFFERENT CONVERSATION THAN THAT'S A FUTURE THING.
NOTHING ABOUT THAT IS IN THERE TODAY.
OKAY. MAYBE I'LL COME FIND YOU AND FIND OUT A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE IT'S JUST KIND OF INTERESTING TO ME BECAUSE I'M MAKING AN ASSUMPTION AND WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU ASSUME.
YEAH, I WOULD LOVE TO, IT'S A, I'M VERY INTERESTED IN THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC.
THANK YOU. ANOTHER QUESTION FOR YOU.
IF YOU CAN GO BACK TO THE SCHEDULE AND PUBLIC INPUT SLIDE.
SORRY I LOST. OH, THERE YOU GO.
SO IT'S GREAT THAT THIS OUTREACH IS HAPPENING.
I DON'T SEE THE SUSTAINABILITY COMMISSION ON HERE.
AND I'M WONDERING IF YOU CAN SPEAK TO THAT.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO HEAR FROM THEM AND THEY WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU.
YEAH. I AGREE THAT THAT THE METHOD BY WHICH THESE WERE CHOSEN.
I AGREE IN HINDSIGHT, I WOULD HAVE DEFINITELY PUT THOSE ON AND CAN DISCUSS THAT INTERNALLY ABOUT HOW TO DO THAT. SEEING NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS FROM COUNCIL, I'M GOING TO TAKE OUR
[01:00:07]
PUBLIC COMMENTER WHO IS THERE IN PERSON, AND THAT'S JOHN SUTHERLAND.MAYOR. WE UNFORTUNATELY DO NOT SEEM TO HAVE JOHN IN THE ROOM RIGHT NOW.
OKAY, LET'S TAKE OUR ONLINE COMMENTER, RUSS RANDALL.
RUSS, IF YOU'D LIKE TO GO AHEAD AND UNMUTE, YOU CAN GIVE YOUR COMMENTS NOW.
THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR AND MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL.
TODAY, WE ARE HERE TO EXPRESS OUR RATHER STRONG CONCERNS WITH THE CITY POTENTIALLY ADOPTING ENGINEERING STANDARDS, ALLOWING FOR INCREASED USE OF ROAD CURBS RATHER THAN STANDARD OR VERTICAL CURBS.
THAT WITH THE INCREASED USE OF ROAD CURBS COMES INCREASED PARKING ON SIDEWALKS.
THIS IS, OF COURSE, A MAJOR CONCERN FOR FOLKS WITH MOBILITY CHALLENGES.
ROLL CURVES ARE ALSO FOUND TO BE MUCH LESS ACCESSIBLE THAN OUR TRUE CUTOUTS.
MANY, MANY FOLKS WITH MOBILITY CHALLENGES HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF DIFFICULTY ACCESSING RESIDENTS OR ACCESSING A PLACE OF BUSINESS USING A ROLL CURB, RATHER THAN GOING THROUGH A CUTOUT.
SO AT THIS TIME, THE NORTHERN ARIZONA COMMUNITY OF PRACTICE TEAM WOULD STRONGLY URGE THE CITY TO TO POSTPONE A DECISION ON AMENDING THE STANDARDS THAT ALLOW FOR INCREASED USE OF ROAD CURBS UNTIL MORE PUBLIC INPUT CAN BE GATHERED.
HELLO, JOHN SUTHERLAND, I'M WITH CAPSTONE HOMES, 3605 SOUTH FLAGSTAFF RANCH ROAD.
WE LITERALLY WORK WITH THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY ON A DAILY BASIS, WHETHER IT BE IN THE FIELD OR PLAN REVIEW, PERMIT APPLICATIONS, YOU NAME IT.
SO IN ANY DOCUMENT LIKE THIS, THERE'S THINGS WE'RE IN FAVOR OF AND THINGS WE'RE NOT SO CRAZY ABOUT.
WE ARE IN FAVOR OF THE ROLL CURB.
CHANGE TO SUBDIVISIONS IN PARTICULAR.
THE MAIN REASON FOR THAT IS, LIKE MR. MILLER SAID, IS THE DRIVEWAYS THAT WE BUILD.
SO CURRENTLY OUR, YOU KNOW, REGULAR OPERATING WAY OF DOING IT IS WE POUR VERTICAL CURB THROUGHOUT AND THEN WE LIKE TO GIVE THE OPTION TO HOME BUYERS, WHETHER THEY WANT A DRIVEWAY ON THE LEFT OR RIGHT, AND TO FLIP THE FLOORPLAN.
INITIALLY, THAT CUT ISN'T NEEDED.
AT THAT POINT, THERE'S ACCESS OVER THE ROLL CURB WHEREVER THE DRIVEWAY MIGHT BE PLACED.
SO IT'S A MORE EFFICIENT WAY, IN OUR OPINION, TO TO PLACE DRIVEWAYS IN THE COMMUNITY IN THE END AND NOT HAVE TO MAKE ALL THOSE CURB CUTS TO PROVIDE THOSE DRIVEWAYS FOR THE HOMES.
THERE'S OTHER THINGS THAT KIND OF GET IN THE WAY.
LIKE FIRE HYDRANTS, THEY RVS, RAMPS.
THAT WHEN YOU'RE DOING VERTICAL CURB, IT MAKES IT A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT BECAUSE IF YOU IMAGINE A DRIVEWAY AND VERTICAL CURB, NOT ONLY IS IT THE BOTTOM OF THE DRIVEWAY, LET'S SAY YOU HAVE A 16 FOOT WIDE DRIVEWAY.
YOU ALSO HAVE THESE WINGS THAT COME UP THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE ROOM FOR THOSE AS WELL.
SO THE DRIVEWAY IS ESSENTIALLY TEN FEET WIDER ON A VERTICAL CURB CUT THAN IT IS ON A ROLL CURB.
SITUATION. AND THEN JUST ONE MORE POINT ON THAT.
ODDLY ENOUGH, IT'S KIND OF A CATCH 22 WITH DRIVEWAYS AND AND ACCESS.
[01:05:07]
A DRIVEWAY DOESN'T TECHNICALLY MEET THE CODE FOR ADA ACCESSIBLE ACCESSIBILITY LIKE A REGULAR HANDICAP RAMP WOULD.SO THERE'S BEEN PLACES WHERE I'VE TRIED TO PUT A DRIVEWAY IN THE PLACE OF A RAMP WHERE THERE HAPPENS TO BE A T INTERSECTION OR WHATEVER, BUT IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY MEET THAT THAT STANDARD FOR AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT.
SO THE NEXT POINT I WANTED TO BRING UP IS FUT'S TRAILS.
THANK YOU. AND COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY HAS A QUESTION FOR YOU.
SURE. WE'VE JUST HEARD SOME PRETTY GOOD ARGUMENTS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE RO11 CURB QUESTION.
OBVIOUSLY, WE WANT TO DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO REDUCE COSTS, UNNECESSARY EXPENSES IN PARTICULAR.
SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE ANY MIDDLE GROUND? I MEAN, IS THIS A ROAD CURB? IS THAT DEFINED SOMEWHERE? OR COULD MAYBE WE HAVE ROLLED CURBS THAT AREN'T SO STEEP, AND MAYBE YOU OR STAFF COULD ADDRESS THAT QUESTION.
WELL, I KNOW THE ROLL CURB AND THE VERTICAL CURB ARE BASICALLY MAX STANDARDS.
SO AND WHETHER A SUBDIVISION IS ROLL CURB OR VERTICAL CURB, THERE'S STILL REQUIREMENT FOR HANDICAP RAMPS AT THE INTERSECTIONS AT TS, THAT KIND OF THING, REGARDLESS OF WHAT KIND OF CURB YOU HAVE THERE.
AND THAT MIGHT NOT BE A SUBJECT FOR TONIGHT, BUT IT MIGHT BE A SUBJECT FOR FUTURE DISCUSSIONS.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. SUTHERLAND. THANK YOU.
COUNCIL. DO YOU? THAT IS ALL THE PUBLIC COMMENT THAT WE HAD.
I DON'T SEE ANY INDICATION THAT THERE'S ANY ADDITIONAL DO WE HAVE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS AND STAFF IS LOOKING FOR A LITTLE BIT OF DIRECTION ON THIS.
AND I THINK IN PARTICULAR RUSS'S COMMENTS ADVOCATING FOR THE COMMUNITIES OF PURPOSE DEMONSTRATES HOW WE'RE PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE A LITTLE BIT BY HAVING THESE VERY TECHNICAL CONVERSATIONS WITHOUT THE CONTEXT OF OUR VALUES AND PRIORITIES ALREADY SORT OF LAUNDERED INTO THE THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT WORD, BUT A FACTORED IN.
SO AGAIN, MY I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF DIRECTION WE'RE SUPPOSED TO GIVE TONIGHT, BUT MY SENSE PERSONALLY AND I'M JUST ONE OF SEVEN IS THAT WE HOLD OFF ON ON RATIFYING THESE TECHNICALITIES UNTIL WE HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE THE COMMUNITY PRIORITIES ARE AND WHAT THE VALUES ARE BEHIND THE BEHIND THE NUMBERS, BEHIND THE SPECIFICS.
I THINK THAT'LL SMOOTH THINGS OVER A LOT, BUT THAT'S JUST MY PERSPECTIVE.
THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET.
THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION.
I HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS AND A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
HOPEFULLY IT'LL MOVE THINGS ALONG AND MAKE THINGS LESS COMPLICATED.
[01:10:04]
AND I LIKE THE CONSTRUCTION TRAFFIC CONTROL PLANS.WE HAVE A LOT OF CONSTRUCTION COMING UP, AND I THINK THAT'S SMART TO HAVE THAT IN THERE.
AND I'M WONDERING WITH THE STREET LIGHTS, CAN WE ADD THE YELLOW TAPE TO EXISTING? I KNOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOING IT FOR FUTURE, BUT CAN WE ADD THAT TO EXISTING LIGHTS? I THINK STEPH SANTANA COULD ANSWER THIS.
STEPH SANTANA, TRANSPORTATION ENGINEERING.
SO I KNOW WE ARE LOOKING INTO SOME GRANTS RIGHT NOW FOR SOME CIP GRANTS, AND I KNOW WE'RE TRYING TO WORK THIS, AND IT DOESN'T COST ENOUGH TO GO AROUND AND PUT TAPE ON ALL OF OUR SIGNALS TO GET THIS GRANT.
SO LONG STORY SHORT, WE ARE LOOKING INTO IT AND I DO THINK IT CAN BE DONE.
IN ORDER TO DO IT, WE WOULD NEED TO TAKE OFF THE BACKING.
POSSIBLY. AND ALL OF THE SCREWS ARE CORRODED AND STUFF.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN WORK IT IN.
BUT LONG STORY SHORT, WE ARE WE ARE TRYING.
THANK YOU. IT'S NEVER AS EASY AS YOU WANT IT TO BE, RIGHT? IT'S NEVER EASY AS PUTTING TAPE ON THERE.
THANK YOU. AND A COUPLE OF THOUGHTS WITH THE PEDESTRIAN RAPID FLASHING BEACON.
I DRIVE BY THE ONE ON OLD 66 QUITE A BIT, AND I FEEL LIKE OUR DRIVERS DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO HAVE THEM DO. SO AN EDUCATION CAMPAIGN OR MAYBE BETTER SIGNAGE.
AND ALSO WITH THE EDUCATION, I'M WONDERING WHAT THE ROLLED CURB DEBATE, AND I THINK IT'S A GOOD DISCUSSION TO HAVE, BUT I'M WONDERING IF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA TEAM CAN MAYBE DO SOME PLUGS ON HEY, DON'T PARK ON THE SIDEWALK.
SO I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERNS OF THAT.
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THE PRESENTATION.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS APPROPRIATE, BUT I DID COME PREPARED WITH SOME OTHER DETAILS ON THAT.
BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE RIGHT TIME, BUT THERE IS A LOT MORE IN THE STANDARD.
IT'S NOT JUST, OH, ALLOW ROLL CURB.
BUT I WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, LET COUNCIL DIRECT THIS DISCUSSION.
YEAH, I JUST COULD SHOW YOU, FOR EXAMPLE, THE THIS IS A MAG STANDARD DETAIL OF THE TYPE OF CURB THAT'S, THAT'S BEING PROPOSED. SO I KNOW WHEN A LOT OF PEOPLE HEAR ROLL CURB.
THERE IS A LOT OF ROLL CURB EXISTING IN THIS TOWN, A LOT OF IT BUILT IN THE 50S.
THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS WHAT A STANDARD THIS TYPE C ROLL CURB IS.
IT'S A FOUR INCH HIGH CURB, WHEREAS A STANDARD VERTICAL CURB IS SIX INCHES.
THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THIS COULDN'T EVER BE RETROFITTED INTO AN EXISTING SUBDIVISION.
IS THERE'S A DIFFERENT DESIGN WHEN YOU HAVE A SIX INCH HIGH CURB VERSUS A FOUR INCH HIGH CURB, AND THEN THE NEED FOR OR THE CONCERN WHICH WE SEE ALL THE TIME, WHICH IS, IS PEOPLE CAN MOUNT A ROLL CURB, BUT TYPICALLY THAT'S WHEN THERE'S A SIDEWALK.
AMENDMENTS DO CALL UP THAT 85% OF THE LOT WIDTHS IN THE SUBDIVISION HAVE A WIDTH EQUAL TO OR LESS THAN 50FT.
SO IT'S NOT ANY SORT OF A BLANKET ALLOWANCE.
IT'S IT'S REALLY RESPONDING TO THESE MUCH DENSER SUBDIVISIONS WHERE IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT A LOT WITH UP TO 50FT OF LOT FRONTAGE.
I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS COMMON, BUT A MEG STANDARD WOULD ALLOW UP TO A 30 FOOT WIDE DRIVEWAY.
NOW, ZONING CODE AND OTHER THINGS MAY PREVENT THAT.
BUT OVER AND ABOVE THAT, WITH THE TYPICAL DRIVEWAY, YOU HAVE AN ADDITIONAL IN FACT, I COULD QUICKLY SHOW YOU A TYPICAL DRIVEWAY.
[01:15:01]
IF YOU CAN KIND OF SEE WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT FROM ABOVE IS YOU HAVE YOU HAVE THE ACTUAL DRIVEWAY ITSELF, BUT THEN YOU HAVE THESE FIVE FOOT WINGS ON EITHER SIDE. SO IMAGINE FOR AN EXAMPLE, IF YOU'RE IF YOU HAVE A 20 FOOT WIDE DRIVEWAY PLUS FIVE FOOT WINGS, YOU NOW HAVE 30FT OF THE 50FT OF THIS LOT FRONTAGE TAKEN UP JUST BY DRIVEWAY, WHETHER BY THE DRIVEWAY ITSELF OR THE WINGS. SO YOU CAN END UP IN THESE NARROWER SUBDIVISIONS WITH VERTICAL CURBS THAT LAST A FEW FEET BEFORE THEY GO BACK DOWN, ESPECIALLY WHERE YOU HAVE DRIVEWAYS THAT ABUT IF YOU IT ALMOST LOOKS A BIT LIKE A ROLLER COASTER SOMETIMES WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO FIT IN VERTICAL CURB, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE STANDARD REQUIRES.BUT WHEN YOU START GETTING INTO THESE TIGHTER WIDTH, VERY DENSE, DENSELY SET SUBDIVISIONS, THAT'S WHERE THE CHALLENGES ARISE.
SO THE, THE STANDARD AS PROPOSED IS LIMITING FOR THAT.
IT'S LIMITING WHERE WHERE THERE IS PARKWAY, WHICH IS WHERE IS THERE'S A FIVE FOOT DISTANCE BETWEEN THE BACK OF THE CURB AND THE FRONT OF THE SIDEWALK, WHICH IS LANDSCAPED AND TYPICALLY HAS AT LEAST ONE STREET TREE PER LOT.
SO WHILE, YES, THE CURB CAN STILL BE MOUNTED, IT ALSO.
HAS A PARKWAY THERE, WHICH I THINK IF ONE IS GOING TO DRIVE INTO A LANDSCAPED AREA LIKE THAT.
TYPICALLY THESE ARE MOSTLY GOING TO APPLY IN YOUR KIND OF HOA TYPE.
MOST OF THE NEWER, DENSER SUBDIVISIONS HAVE THAT.
THE DRIVEWAY ENTRANCE WIDTH IS LIMITED TO 20FT, SO IT ACTUALLY PROVIDES A BIT OF A CONSTRAINT THERE VERSUS WHAT THE EXISTING MAG STANDARD WOULD ALLOW. SO WE DID TRY TO TAKE SOME OF THESE IN INTO CONSIDERATION AS STAFF TRYING TO YOU KNOW, ADDRESS A LOT OF THE DIFFERENT CONCERNS HERE AND JUST ADDRESSING SOME OF THE REAL PRACTICALITY THINGS.
THERE'S ANOTHER ISSUE WITH ROWE KHIRBAT AT CUL DE SACS, WHERE ROLL CURB ACTUALLY HELPS WITH ADA AT CUL DE SACS BECAUSE OF. OR WE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE OUR RATHER LARGE CUL DE SACS EVEN LARGER BECAUSE WITH, WITH THE TRADITIONAL WE DON'T WE DON'T REQUIRE PARKWAY AT CUL DE SACS.
THAT MEANS TO GET AN ADA SIDEWALK AROUND THE END OF A OF A CUL DE SAC, WE WOULD NEED TO INCREASE THE DIAMETER OF OUR OF OUR CUL DE SAC TEN FEET BEYOND WHAT THEY ALREADY ARE, OR USE THE ROLL CURB WHICH WE'VE BEEN GRANTING IN CERTAIN INSTANCES ON A MODIFICATION ON AN ENGINEERING STANDARD MODIFICATION BECAUSE THE.
WE FELT THAT MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS OF ADA AND USING A ROLL CURB IN THAT INSTANCE WERE PREFERABLE TO CREATING EITHER TRYING TO GET PROPERTY RIGHTS TO GO OUTSIDE, OR TO EXTEND THE THE RIGHT OF WAY AT A CUL DE SAC.
SO THAT'S JUST ANOTHER INSTANCE WHERE IT'S NOT UNIFORMLY NEGATIVE AS FAR AS THAT GOES.
BUT THERE IT'S I'M NOT TRYING TO DISMISS THE THE CLEAR FACT THAT TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, MOUNT UP AND DOWN A ROLL CURB IS CERTAINLY MUCH, MUCH MORE CHALLENGING THAN IT WOULD BE WITH THE TRADITIONAL DRIVEWAY.
AND I'M NOT TRYING TO DISCOUNT THAT THE ADA REQUIRES US TO PUT RAMPS WHICH OUR CODE, OUR PROPOSED AMENDMENTS CLARIFY AT INTERSECTIONS AS WELL AS MID-BLOCK CROSSINGS WHERE THERE'S A T TYPE INTERSECTION.
SO THIS IS WHAT WE'VE PROPOSED.
AND, AND WE WE DO KNOW THAT THERE ARE COMPETING INTERESTS HERE.
AND WE DIDN'T FEEL AS STAFF THAT AT THIS TIME IT WAS YOU KNOW, WE KIND OF WERE LOOKING FOR A LITTLE BIT OF GUIDANCE ON IS THIS IT'S IT'S KIND OF BALANCING COSTS OF CONSTRUCTION AND, AND RECOGNIZING AS STAFF IN THE FIELD THAT THE REALITIES OF THIS SITUATION, WHEN YOU GET TO THESE VERY NARROW LOTS IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THAN, I THINK, WHAT PEOPLE PICTURE IN THEIR MIND.
IF YOU HAVE 100 FOOT, 200 FOOT WHATEVER IN A IN A LARGER LOT, THEN THE ROAD CURB IS NOT EVEN BEING PROPOSED HERE. IT'S JUST IN THESE HIGHER DENSITY SUBDIVISIONS.
ANYTHING ELSE? COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET.
[01:20:04]
NOT AT THIS TIME. THANK YOU.AND I'LL JUST POINT OUT THAT THE AGENDA ITEM SAYS ANY YOU WANT TO KNOW ANY SECTIONS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO COME BACK TO AND REVIEW IN MORE DETAIL? SO WE'RE NOT BEING ASKED TO APPROVE ANYTHING TONIGHT JUST FOR THE SAKE OF THAT AND STAYING ON ROLL CURBS FOR A MINUTE.
YOU KNOW, AT FIRST IT MAKES SENSE.
THEN IT IS, YOU KNOW, VERY TIGHT SUBDIVISION, MAYBE TOWNHOUSES OR WHATEVER.
NARROW LOTS THAT WE ONLY HAVE THE ROAD CURBS BECAUSE OF THE REASONS THAT YOU GAVE.
BUT I THINK THE KEY POINT THAT WE'RE MISSING HERE IS THAT IF WE HAVE ROAD CURBS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE REST OF THE STREET LOOKS LIKE, WE'RE ELIMINATING THE PLACE WHERE SOMEONE IN A WHEELCHAIR CAN GET ACROSS THE STREET.
IN EFFECT, BASICALLY, THEY'RE MAKING A CURB THAT'S NON PASSABLE FOR WHEELCHAIR PEOPLE.
SO THERE'S A PART OF ME THAT WOULD JUST LOVE TO GO TO ROLL CURVES.
BUT I GUESS I HATE TO SAY IT, BUT I I'M AGAINST THE ROAD CURBS BECAUSE OF THE WHEELCHAIR ISSUE.
YEAH. I'D LIKE TO BRING UP A NEW ITEM.
AND THAT IS TRAFFIC SIGNALS OF ALL THINGS.
THERE'S A GENTLEMAN IN THE BACK HERE THAT WAS IN A VERY SERIOUS TRAFFIC ACCIDENT ON BUTLER AVENUE AND BEAVER.
AND I HYPOTHESIZE, AND I'M NOT SURE, BUT I HYPOTHESIZE THAT THE REASON FOR THAT ACCIDENT.
OR THAT COLLISION IF WE DON'T WANT TO USE THE WORD ACCIDENT.
WAS THAT THE SUN IS IN A PERSON'S EYE.
WHERE THEY'RE GOING. I'VE EXPERIENCED THIS MYSELF.
I WAS GOING DOWN ROUTE 66, COMING FROM THE EAST, COMING INTO THE DOWNTOWN AREA.
AND I CAME VERY CLOSE TO RUNNING A RED LIGHT.
BUT WHY WOULD I ALMOST RUN A RED LIGHT? BECAUSE THE SUN WAS RIGHT IN MY EYES AND I COULDN'T SEE THE DAMN LIGHT.
SO WHAT DO WE WANT TO DO ABOUT THIS? NORMALLY OUR TRAFFIC SIGNALS ARE ABOVE THE LANES, BUT THEN WE HAVE ONE OFF TO THE SIDE THAT'S A LITTLE BIT LOWER.
IT'S LIKE, NO, I THINK WE CAN PUT THAT SIGNAL.
AND I NOTED THAT THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER, MR. BOWMAN, STATED THAT THERE ARE SOME SIGNALS IN THIS TOWN THAT ARE MONITORED AT EIGHT FEET.
NOW, YOUR STANDARD DRAWING THAT'S IN THE DRAFT HERE IS 12FT.
SO I CONTEND THAT IF WE COULD GET SOME TRAFFIC SIGNALS THAT ARE LOWER, THAT PEOPLE MIGHT NOT MISS THE SITES THAT ARE LIKE RIGHT IN THE SUN, YOU KNOW, SO AM I MAKING MYSELF CLEAR? AM I TALKING AROUND IN CIRCLES? NO, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
I THINK WE CAN, YOU AS STAFF PROVIDES SOME SORT OF FEEDBACK ON THAT.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR? YEAH, AND IT COULD BE TODAY OR IT CAN BE NEXT TIME WE TALK ABOUT THIS.
AND I GUESS THE PRIORITY WOULD BE FOR STREETS WHERE THE SUN'S IN YOUR EYES, WHICH IS BASICALLY EAST WEST STREETS AND NOT SO MUCH NORTH SOUTH STREETS WHERE IT'S NOT AS CRITICAL, I DON'T THINK.
SO I'D BE INTERESTED IN SOME FEEDBACK EITHER TONIGHT OR NEXT TIME YOU GUYS COME BACK.
SO I'LL LEAVE IT. I'LL GIVE THE PODIUM BACK TO YOU.
MUCH MORE. THAT WAS A GOOD BAND, INCIDENTALLY.
[01:25:02]
ANY CHANGES THAT WE MAKE, WE CAN DISCUSS THEM FOR THAT FIRST READ.I THINK THAT I'M GETTING HEAD NODS FROM THE LAWYER, SO I THINK THAT CAN BE OUR PLAN.
IF THAT'S OKAY, WE'LL DO SOME RESEARCH ON THAT AND SEE IF WE CAN COME WITH SOMETHING.
WELL, WHEN YOU SAY OFFLINE, I GUESS THAT MEANS LIKE BETWEEN YOU AND ME, WHICH IS GREAT, BUT I'M THINKING THAT THE REST OF THE COUNCIL MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN THAT DISCUSSION ALSO. OKAY.
IS THAT POSSIBLE? OH. THANK YOU.
ANYTHING ELSE? COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY.
I'M A LONG TIME ROLLED CURB CRITIC AND FOR THE REASONS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, WHICH IS CHALLENGES GETTING UP ON TO THE CURB, BUT ALSO BECAUSE CARS TEND TO PARK ON THE SIDEWALK.
AND I'M ALSO A BIG PROPONENT OF SIDEWALKS BEING USED FOR THE PURPOSE OF TRANSPORTATION OF PEOPLE.
SO I'M NOT COMFORTABLE SIGNING OFF ON ANYTHING RELATED TO ROLLED CURBS UNLESS WE CAN HAVE SOME EXTENDED CONVERSATION ABOUT IT.
AND DECIDE WHAT THIS COUNCIL WANTS TO DO IN TERMS OF ENGINEERING STANDARDS.
I'M WILLING TO HEAR OUT MAYBE SOME OPTIONS FOR FOR HOW WE HOW WE ACHIEVE A COMPROMISE THAT IS GOING TO.
WORK FOR MOST IN OUR COMMUNITY.
BUT AND ESPECIALLY YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT PARKWAYS.
AND IF THE CURB IS ATTACHED TO OR IF THE ROAD CURB IS ATTACHED TO A PARKWAY AND THAT TAKES AWAY THE THE ONE ISSUE OF VEHICLES PARKING ON.
HOWEVER, THE CHALLENGE OF SOMEONE WHO IS UTILIZING A WHEELCHAIR, GETTING UP THERE REMAINS.
AND ONE OTHER THING I JUST WANT TO REMIND US ALL ABOUT.
IT STRUCK ME IN THE CONVERSATION ABOUT GRANDVIEW BOULEVARD AND THE REPLACEMENT.
OF ALL THE UTILITIES AND THE REDESIGN OF THE STREET IS THAT.
ENGINEERING SAID THAT THE REASON WHY THEY WERE INSTALLING VERTICAL CURBS IS TO HELP CONVEY WATER, STORMWATER OFF THE STREET MORE QUICKLY.
SO THAT'S ALSO ANOTHER CONSIDERATION THAT I'M TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION.
SO HOW HOW WOULD WE DO THIS THEN? TO HAVE ADDITIONAL CONVERSATION ABOUT ROLLED CURBS.
COULD THIS BE PART OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, BRINGING BACK TO COUNCIL AS SOME OPTIONS THAT ARE FIRST READ? AS FAR AS BRINGING BACK SOME OPTIONS LIKE THE THE OTHER ENGINEERING STANDARDS WITHOUT IT OR I'M SORRY. I'M NOT.
YOU HAD INDICATED THAT WHAT WAS THE QUESTION THAT COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY ASKED ABOUT? COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY PLEASE YOU JUST SAID IT.
AND STAFF SAID THAT THEY WOULD LOOK AT SOME OPTIONS AND COME BACK TO COUNCIL WITH SOME ALTERNATIVES WHEN WE HAVE OUR FIRST READ. I HAD SOME SUGGESTIONS ABOUT HOW HIGH ABOVE GROUND LEVEL THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL SHOULD BE.
NOT THE ONES OVER THE LANE, BUT THE ONE OVER ON THE SIDE OVER IN THE SIDEWALK AREA.
SO I GUESS MY MY BIGGER QUESTION IS.
WILL YOU THESE THESE POINTS THAT WE'RE MAKING ABOUT THESE STANDARDS WHERE WE HAVE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR MAYBE SOME DISAGREEMENT? WILL YOU COME BACK TO US WITH SOME OPTIONS THAT WE CAN DISCUSS AND DECIDE UPON? MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBERS, PAUL MOODY, CITY ENGINEER.
WE CAN DEFINITELY BRING BACK OPTIONS.
[01:30:04]
THIS FIRST ROUND OF UPDATES WAS MEANT TO BE THE EASY ONES.OBVIOUSLY, WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THE DIFFERENT COMMISSIONS, THE QUESTIONS CAME UP WITH ROLLED CURBS.
WE LEFT IT. WE LEFT IT IN HERE FOR TONIGHT'S WORK STUDY PRESENTATION.
THEN I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THAT WE MOVE IT INTO THE MEDIUM CATEGORY.
BECAUSE I, I AGREE WITH VICE MAYOR THAT AT LEAST FOR THAT TYPE OF ISSUE, THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A VALUE STATEMENT IN TERMS OF OUR FUTURE TRANSPORTATION NEEDS.
WE'RE TRYING TO GET THIS WE CALLED IT THE LOW HANGING FRUIT.
GET THOSE THROUGH AND WE CAN DEFINITELY MOVE THE ROAD CURVES TO THE NEXT ROUND.
AND CITY MANAGER HAS A SUGGESTION.
WE ALSO DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE AN ACTION ITEM ON THIS AS SLATED.
AS COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY HAS BROUGHT FORWARD AND ON THE ROAD CURBS.
I KNOW THAT'S GOING TO PUSH THINGS BACK, BUT FRANKLY, IT'S AN IMPORTANT DISCUSSION.
SO COUNCIL HAS A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT PATHS FORWARD, BUT I DON'T WANT COUNCIL TO FEEL COMPELLED THAT IT NEEDS TO ACT ON THIS AT ANY TIME, BECAUSE THAT CAN BE DELAYED AND WE CAN HAVE MORE DISCUSSION.
THAT IS EXACTLY THE INTENT OF THESE WORK SESSIONS.
ROLL CURB IS AN ALTERNATIVE TO A HIGH BACK CURB.
A VERTICAL CURB VERTICAL CURBS ARE A VERY REAL OBSTRUCTION FROM AN ACCESSIBILITY STANDPOINT.
SO WHILE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS IN THE CONTEXT OF ACCESSIBILITY, LET'S PLEASE BE MINDFUL THAT THE STATUS QUO, THE CONVENTIONAL APPROACH NOW IS A VERTICAL CURB, WHICH IS QUITE ARGUABLY MORE OF AN IMPEDIMENT THAN A ROLLED BACK CURB.
AS TO THE COMMENTS ABOUT GRANDVIEW AND YOUR SPOT ON MAYOR WITH YOUR OBSERVATIONS, NOT ONLY IS THAT A VERTICAL CURB, MY UNDERSTANDING IS IT INCREASED HEIGHT, VERTICAL CURB FOR THE PURPOSE OF GRANDVIEW, OF ACCOMMODATING AN INCREASED WATER FLOW ALONG WITH THE INVERTED GRADIENT OF THAT ROAD.
SO I WOULD CAUTION ON THAT ONE.
IT'S ONE OF THE ONLY ROADS IN TOWN.
MAYBE THE ONLY ONE THAT IS BEING DESIGNED IN IT'S BEING DESIGNED AND BUILT AS IT IS TO ACCOMMODATE A HIGH FLOW OF WATER. SO IT IS VERY MUCH AN EXCEPTION, BUT A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE MAYOR.
SO THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT FORWARD.
THANK YOU. AND I WOULD JUST NOTE THAT WITH A UPRIGHT CURB, THERE ARE CURB CUTS.
AND THAT'S HOW PEOPLE WITH STROLLERS AND WITH WHEELCHAIRS ACCESS THE SIDEWALK.
SO COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY HAS A COMMENT.
WELL, I GUESS I HAVE TWO COMMENTS NOW, I'D LIKE TO.
AND YOU YOU KIND OF DID IT, MAYOR, BUT I WANT TO COMMENT TO THE CITY MANAGER'S COMMENT.
I AGREE THAT A VERTICAL CURB IS MORE OF A OBSTRUCTION TO SOMEONE IN A WHEELCHAIR THAN A ROLL CURB.
HOWEVER, IF WE HAVE VERTICAL CURBS AT EVERY DRIVEWAY, THERE'S A DRIVEWAY WHICH HAS WAY LESS SLOPE THAN A ROLLED CURB.
A ROLLED CURB IS LIKE THIS, AND A DRIVEWAY IS MORE LIKE THIS.
MY WIFE CAN GET DOWN MY DRIVEWAY OVER TO THE MAILBOX VERY EASILY.
SHE WOULD NEVER EVEN THINK OF GOING OVER THE VERTICAL CURB, BUT A ROLLED CURB.
I'M CONCERNED THAT SHE WOULD HAVE A REALLY DIFFICULT TIME.
OKAY. OH, I GOT MIXED UP ON THE.
I BELIEVE THAT COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS WAS THE NEXT UP ON CHAT.
THAT'S OKAY. I KNOW IT'S DIFFICULT.
[01:35:08]
THE COST AND WHERE YOU WOULD, WHERE THE STANDARDS WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THOSE GO ALL OVER IN SUBDIVISIONS AND, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY'RE CONDOS OR WHATEVER.CAN YOU, CAN YOU BRING THAT INFORMATION? BECAUSE I'M INTERESTED IN THE COST OF ONE OVER THE OTHER.
AND THEN WHERE DOES THAT COST? DOES IT GET PASSED ON TO THE RESIDENTS OR WHATEVER? MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING FOR THE DEVELOPERS TO TO WEIGH IN ON.
SO IF YOU COULD JUST INCLUDE THAT IN OUR IN STUFF FOR OUR DISCUSSION, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR ME.
AND I, I DON'T WANT THIS AGAIN TO BE A SNAG.
CLEARLY THERE'S A LOT OF INTEREST IN DIFFERENT OPINIONS AND CONCERNS.
I'M I AGREE WITH COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS THAT WE HAVEN'T DISCUSSED THE COST TO THE HOME BUYER AND FACTORING THAT IN, BUT I THINK TONIGHT'S NOT THE NIGHT TO TALK ABOUT THAT.
IF WE CAN JUST PUT IT INTO THE NEXT WAVE SO YOU CAN CONTINUE ON WITH EVERYTHING ELSE THAT YOU HAD PROPOSED AND DO THE CLEANUP, I THINK THAT WOULD BE YOU CAN CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD AND JUST PULL THAT ONE ITEM OUT.
SO I THINK WE'VE CLEARLY FOUND THE TOP END OF LOW MAYBE OR SOMETHING THEREIN.
BUT YEAH, THAT'S PART OF REALLY THE THE GUIDANCE WE WERE LOOKING FOR TONIGHT.
THANK YOU, MAYOR. JUST BRIEFLY, I WANTED TO REITERATE THE COMMENT FROM AND AND AGREE WITH THE COMMENTS AND QUESTION FROM COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET ON JUST THE EDUCATION COMPONENT OF ALL OF THIS.
ON MY WAY BACK FROM MY TRAVELS TODAY, I ACTUALLY HAD TO GO THROUGH THE PEDESTRIAN CROSS ON OLD ROUTE 66 AND TO WATCH EVERYONE AROUND THAT ONE INTERSECTION TRY AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, AS IT WAS, FLASHING RED WAS VERY IT'S ALWAYS VERY INTERESTING.
SO I THINK WITH A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING TONIGHT, THERE IS GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR SOME OF THAT PUBLIC EDUCATION AND ENGAGEMENT. I DID NOTICE A RECENT POST THROUGH THE CITY ON THOSE STOP SIGNALS AND THE CONFUSION, EVEN IN THE COMMENTS FROM PEOPLE SAYING THAT THEY STILL DIDN'T GET IT.
SO CLEARLY THERE'S JUST A NEED FOR SOME MORE EDUCATION AND OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THOSE SORTS OF SIGNALS ARE, SOME OF THE OTHER CHANGES THAT WE'RE MAKING, AND NOT ONLY THE WHAT, BUT ALSO THE WHY BEHIND THEM, I THINK IS IS GOING TO BE REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE COMMUNITY. ALL RIGHT.
IS THERE ANYTHING ADDITIONAL STAFF THAT YOU NEED FROM US? NO, MAYOR.
I THINK WE HAVE THE GUIDANCE WE NEED.
ALL RIGHT, WE'RE MOVING ON TO ITEM NUMBER EIGHT.
[8. Butler Avenue Corridor and Pilot Bicycle Lanes Update Staff recommends transitioning the separated bicycle lanes to painted double stripes on Butler Avenue and Beaver Street to lessen the financial impacts and staffing requirements on City snow operations, and in anticipation of the future projects including the Safe Streets for All grant project and the Lone Tree Overpass project. Staff also recommends keeping the speed limit on Butler Avenue the same to promote voluntary compliance, encourage uniform flow, clearly communicate reasonable and prudent speeds, and ensure an effective enforcement environment for the Police Department.]
BUTLER AVENUE CORRIDOR AND PILOT BICYCLE LANES UPDATE.[01:40:02]
COUNCIL MEMBERS, VICE MAYOR ASLAN AND HONORABLE MAYOR DAGGETT.MY NAME IS DAVID LEMKE, AND I AM A TRANSPORTATION ENGINEER ASSOCIATE HERE WITH THE CITY.
WE HAVE ALREADY PRESENTED THIS INFORMATION TO THE PEDESTRIAN ADVISORY COMMITTEE, BICYCLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION, AND THEIR FEEDBACK IS INCLUDED IN THE PRESENTATION. AND I ASK IF WE COULD JUST PLEASE HOLD ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS TILL THE END.
OKAY, SO TONIGHT WE'LL COVER AN UPDATE ON THE PILOT BIKE LANES, THE FINDINGS OF THE BUTLER AVENUE SPEED STUDY, AND INFORMATION ON FUTURE GRANT AND CITY FUNDED PROJECTS THAT ARE PLANNED TO OCCUR ALONG BUTLER AVENUE.
AND I ACTUALLY WILL NOW HAND THINGS OVER TO OUR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT FOR THESE NEXT FEW SLIDES.
ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR.
COUNCIL, I APPRECIATE THE TIME TONIGHT.
I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH THESE SLIDES FAIRLY QUICKLY.
YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THERE'S LIMITED TEXT.
SO WE'LL TRY AND KEEP IT SIMPLE AND JUST GO OFF OF MORE OF A NARRATIVE HERE.
SOME PEOPLE ASK, WELL, WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO ACTUALLY MAINTAIN SOME OF THIS INFRASTRUCTURE OUT HERE? THIS IS A REALLY GOOD IMAGE OF WHAT IT TAKES TO SAFELY MAINTAIN THIS PARTICULAR INFRASTRUCTURE.
THIS RIGHT HERE IS ON MILTON OR I'M SORRY, ON BUTLER.
AND IT WOULD BE JUST WEST OF SAWMILL ON THIS ONE HERE.
WE HAD TO MAKE CUTS ACROSS THE CITY AS WE RESTRUCTURED.
AND I THINK WE ALREADY KIND OF REVIEWED A LOT OF THAT IN DECEMBER.
GENERAL MAINTENANCE. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, AS WE HAVE WORKED TO TRANSITION FROM THE CURBS TO THIS DOUBLE STRIPED BUFFER, WE DID THAT IN THE LATE FALL. SOME OF THE STUFF THAT WE WERE ABLE TO GET OUT THERE WAS CLEAN UP A LOT OF THE AREA, GET INTO AREAS THAT WE COULDN'T GET INTO WITH EVEN SOME OF THE EQUIPMENT WE PURCHASED, AND IT CLEANED UP QUITE NICELY IN BETWEEN THE STORMS HERE.
AND SO WE WERE ABLE TO IN AREAS WHERE WE HAVE DRIVEWAYS, CROSS ROADS THAT COME THROUGH, ADD ADDITIONAL SHARROWS TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT EXACTLY WE WERE DOING OUT THERE AND WHAT THOSE CURBS AND WHAT THOSE DOUBLE STRIPED AREAS ARE FOR, WHAT THE INTENTION IS FOR.
WE ALSO GOT SOME GOOD FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMISSIONS ON POTENTIALLY GETTING SOME EDUCATION OUT THERE FOR PEOPLE TO HELP THEM UNDERSTAND WHAT EXACTLY OUR SHARROWS, WHAT DO THEY REPRESENT, AND WHAT DO THEY MEAN WHEN THEY'RE OUT THERE IN THE ROADWAY, LIKE YOU SEE RIGHT HERE ON BEAVER STREET ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN WHEN IT'S IN THE ROADWAY AS WELL? SO WE'RE WORKING ON THAT TO, TO HELP EDUCATE THE PUBLIC TO JUST HELP INCREASE THAT AWARENESS.
I THINK THOSE WERE THE BIG ITEMS HERE.
WE'LL WORK ON QUESTIONS AT THE END.
I'LL HAND IT BACK OVER TO DAVID.
ALL RIGHT. SO NOW I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE BUTLER SPEED STUDY.
I'LL COVER THE PURPOSE OF THE STUDY.
SO DURING THE MAY 23RD, 2023 SPECIAL MEETING WORK SESSION, COUNCIL TASKED STAFF WITH CONDUCTING AN ENGINEERING STUDY ALONG BUTLER AVENUE BETWEEN MILTON ROAD AND SAWMILL ROAD TO DETERMINE IF THE SPEED LIMIT COULD BE LOWERED.
SPEED STUDIES TAKE THE TEMPERATURE OF THE ROAD.
THEY EVALUATE THE EXISTING CONDITIONS OF A ROADWAY TO DETERMINE IF THE ESTABLISHED SPEED LIMITS PROMOTE VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE, AND REFLECT THE 85TH PERCENTILE OF FREE FLOW SPEED. SHOULD BE NOTED THAT DRIVEWAY DENSITY, BUS STOP LOCATIONS, HORIZONTAL AND VERTICAL CURVES, LAND USE AND SIGNAL SPACING AND BICYCLE AND PEDESTRIAN USES WERE ALL CONSIDERED IN THIS EVALUATION.
[01:45:10]
STOREFRONTS. BUTLER AVENUE HAS A SPEED LIMIT OF 35MPH.THERE ARE PEDESTRIAN PHASES WITH COUNTDOWN SIGNALS AND TWO STRAY, TWO STAGED BICYCLE TURN BOXES.
PAVEMENT MARKINGS ARE PRESENT.
SPEEDS CAN RANGE FROM 25MPH FOR LOCAL ROADS TO 40 OR 45MPH FOR ARTERIALS.
THIS LEFT MAP SHOWS THE DIFFERENT SPEEDS WHICH EXIST IN FLAGSTAFF IN FLAGSTAFF ROAD HIERARCHY, WHERE THE RIGHT MAP SHOWS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF ROAD HIERARCHY IN MESA, AND IT SHOULD BE NOTED, THERE IS A HIGHER DENSITY OF 45 AND 50 MILE PER HOUR ROADS IN MESA COMPARED TO FLAGSTAFF.
LOWER SPEEDS MAKE THE ROADWAY SAFER FOR ALL USERS.
SETTING APPROPRIATE POSTED SPEED LIMITS IS PART OF AN OVERALL APPROACH TO SPEED MANAGEMENT, BUT MAY REQUIRE ADDITIONAL CHANGES SUCH AS GEOMETRY, EDUCATION, AND ENFORCEMENT. UNREASONABLE POSTED SPEED LIMITS WILL NOT BE FOLLOWED AND MAY INTRODUCE OTHER SAFETY CONCERNS, SUCH AS SPEED DIFFERENTIAL, AND MAY INCREASE POLICE ENFORCEMENT EFFORTS. IT IS WRITTEN IN THE ARIZONA REVISED STATUTES, TITLE 28, THAT A LOCAL AUTHORITY SHALL DETERMINE, BY AN ENGINEERING AND TRAFFIC INVESTIGATION, THE PROPER MAXIMUM SPEED FOR ALL ARTERIAL STREETS IN ITS JURISDICTION.
THIS APPLIES TO BUTLER AVENUE BECAUSE IT IS AN ARTERIAL STREET OR IT IS AN ARTERIAL STREET.
ALL RIGHT. THESE ARE THE CURRENT SPEED LIMITS ON BUTLER.
SO YOU'LL SEE UP IN THE TOP LEFT THAT'S MILTON ROAD AND DOWN IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT THAT'S SAWMILL.
AND CURRENTLY IT IS 35MPH BETWEEN MILTON AND LONE TREE ROAD.
AND THEN IT GOES UP TO 40MPH PAST LONE TREE ALL THE WAY TO PONDEROSA PARKWAY.
SO THE 85TH PERCENTILE SPEED IS DEFINED AS THE SPEED AT OR BELOW WHICH 85% OF VEHICLES TRAVEL SPEED ZONING IS BASED ON THE PRINCIPLE OF SETTING THE SPEED LIMIT AS NEAR AS PRACTICAL TO THE SPEED THAT 85% OF DRIVERS CONSIDER TO BE REASONABLE AND PRUDENT.
SPEED LIMITS ESTABLISHED BY AN ENGINEERING AND TRAFFIC INVESTIGATION ENCOURAGE VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE BECAUSE THEY APPEAR REASONABLE TO THE MAJORITY OF MOTORISTS POSTED LIMITS THAT ARE SET HIGHER OR LOWER THAN THOSE DICTATED BY ROADWAY, AND TRAFFIC CONDITIONS ARE IGNORED BY THE MAJORITY OF MOTORISTS.
AND THESE WERE ALL TAKEN AFTER THE BARRIERS WERE INSTALLED.
THE SEPARATED BIKE LANES ON BUTLER.
THAT BASED ON THESE RESULTS, IT'S APPARENT THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT ALIGNS CLOSELY WITH THE OBSERVED 85TH PERCENTILE SPEEDS, AND THAT ALSO ALIGNS WITH THE DESIGN SPEED OF THE ROADWAY. AND IT DEMONSTRATES THIS CHART THAT THE EXISTING SPEED LIMIT ENCOURAGES VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE AND MATCH THE CONTEXT OF THE ROADWAY, INCLUDING THE LEVEL OF URBANIZATION, PEDESTRIAN ACTIVITY, AND AND ADJACENT LAND USES.
CURRENTLY, ABOUT 10% OF DRIVERS EXCEED THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT, BUT IF WE LOWER THE SPEED LIMIT BY FIVE MILES PER HOUR, ABOUT 50% OF DRIVERS WOULD BE EXCEEDING THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT. CREATING AN ENFORCEMENT ISSUE.
SO THE RESULTS SHOW THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF DRIVERS ARE DRIVING AT OR BELOW THE SPEED LIMIT, AND THE POSTED SPEED ALIGNS WITH THE DESIGN SPEED, WHICH ALSO ALIGNS WITH THE OPERATING SPEED OF THE ROAD.
THAT BRINGS US TO OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.
SO THIS ENGINEERING SPEED STUDY CONCLUDES THAT THE SPEED LIMITS ON BUTLER AVENUE SHOULD REMAIN THE SAME TO CONTINUE PROMOTING VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE, ENCOURAGING UNIFORM FLOW, AND PROVIDING A CLEAR REMINDER OF REASONABLE AND PRUDENT SPEEDS, AND ENSURING AN EFFECTIVE ENFORCEMENT ENVIRONMENT FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT STAFF IS COMMITTED TO
[01:50:09]
REEVALUATING THE SPEED LIMITS ON BUTLER AVENUE AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THE SAFE STREETS FOR ALL COMPLETE STREETS, GRANT AND THE LONE TREE OVERPASS PROJECT, WHICH WILL SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGE THE CHARACTER OF THE ROAD.ALL RIGHT, SO I WOULD NOW LIKE TO WRAP THINGS UP BY HIGHLIGHTING TWO PROJECTS THAT WILL AFFECT BUTLER AVENUE THE SAFE STREETS FOR ALL GRANT PROJECT AND THE LONE TREE OVERPASS PROJECT.
BOTH PROJECTS INCLUDE ENHANCED BICYCLE AND PEDESTRIAN FEATURES THAT ARE NEW TO FLAGSTAFF.
ALL RIGHT, SO SAFE STREETS FOR ALL.
THESE IMPROVEMENTS INCLUDE THREE PROTECTED INTERSECTIONS, TWO ENHANCED CROSSINGS, AND RAISING THE BIKE LANE TO THE SAME LEVEL AS THE SIDEWALK, WHILE ADDING A PARKWAY WHERE RIGHT OF WAY PERMITS.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR PROTECTED INTERSECTIONS AS SEEN HERE, THEY ARE CHARACTERIZED BY BUMP OUTS AT ALL FOUR CORNERS OF THE INTERSECTION, LEADING PEDESTRIAN INTERVALS, BICYCLE SIGNALS, AND CROSSWALKS WITH SEPARATION BETWEEN BICYCLISTS AND PEDESTRIANS.
AND THIS IS AN AERIAL VIEW OF THE LONE TREE OVERPASS PROJECT AND THE SCHEDULE FOR THE PROJECT, WHICH WILL BEGIN CONSTRUCTION SPRING 2025 AND WITH AN ANTICIPATED COMPLETION DATE IN LATE 2026, PENDING RIGHT OF WAY ACQUISITION.
BUT IT DOES INCLUDE WIDE MULTI-USE PATHS, BRIDGE OVER TRAIN TRACKS, PROTECTED INTERSECTIONS AT BUTLER AND LONE TREE, WHICH WILL DIRECTLY AFFECT THE BUTLER CORRIDOR, LONE TREE AND FRANKLIN AND LONE TREE AND SAWMILL, AND THERE WILL ALSO BE A SIGNALIZED INTERSECTION INSTALLED AT LONE TREE AND SAWMILL, AS WELL AS PART OF THE PROJECT.
THIS SLIDE SUMMARIZES THE FEEDBACK WE RECEIVED FROM OUR MEETINGS WITH THE BICYCLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND THE PEDESTRIAN ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND THE TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION. SO THE BACK AND PACK TOLD US THAT SPEED LIMITS SHOULD BE LOWERED DUE TO PROXIMITY TO NAU AND THE NUMBER OF PEDESTRIANS AND BICYCLISTS PRESENT ON BUTLER, AND FOR THE COMFORT OF PEDESTRIANS AND BICYCLISTS, BECAUSE WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE MORE PED AND BIKE USE, AND THAT THEY PREFER TO KEEP THE CURBS UNTIL THE BUTLER AVENUE RECONSTRUCTION. THE TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION FELT THAT THE SPEED LIMITS SHOULD BE LOWERED BEFORE OR WITH THE CONSTRUCTION OF SAFE STREETS FOR ALL PROJECT, AND THAT THEY PREFER TO KEEP CURBS ON THE SEPARATED BIKE LANE CURBS UNTIL FALL 2024 TO SEE IF PUBLIC WORKS CAN MAINTAIN DURING THE WINTER AND IF MAINTENANCE IS NOT FEASIBLE. THEY THE IDEA WAS THAT THEY SHOULD BE TRANSITIONED TO DOUBLE STRIPES, DOUBLE PAINTED STRIPES.
THANKS FOR GOING THROUGH THIS WITH ME ALL THE WAY TO THIS POINT.
I KNOW THAT WAS A LOT OF INFORMATION.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO SUMMARIZE WHAT WE COVERED.
SO WE RECOMMEND KEEPING THE SPEED LIMIT ON BUTLER AVENUE THE SAME.
WE ARE COMMITTED AND COMMITTED TO REEVALUATING BUTLER AVENUE SPEED LIMITS AFTER THE COMPLETION OF OUR FUTURE PROJECTS, SUCH AS THE SAFE STREETS FOR ALL, GRANT AND THE LONE TREE OVERPASS PROJECT.
AND I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
WELL, I GUESS I'LL I'LL GO THROUGH THESE REAL QUICK.
SO THE FIRST ONE WOULD BE TO FOLLOW STAFF RECOMMENDATION TO KEEP EXISTING POSTED SPEED LIMITS.
SECOND ONE WOULD BE TO WAIT FOR THE GRANT PROJECT TO COMPLETE AND THEN STUDY AGAIN.
THAT WOULD BE THE SAFE STREETS FOR ALL PROJECT, WITH THE RAISED BIKE LANES AND THE PROTECTED INTERSECTIONS, AND ALSO THE PROTECTED INTERSECTION FROM LONE TREE, YOU KNOW, WAIT FOR THOSE TO BE COMPLETED AND THEN SEE HOW THOSE ARE AFFECTING HOW PEOPLE ARE DRIVING.
AND THE THIRD IS, EXCUSE ME, IT'S A COMEBACK WITH AN ORDINANCE TO ADJUST THE SPEED LIMITS BY COUNCIL AUTHORITY, AND THAT WOULD BE MORE OF AN IMMEDIATE CHANGE TO THE EXISTING SPEED LIMITS.
AND WITH THAT, I'LL THANK YOU.
SO WE'RE GOING TO TAKE QUESTIONS FROM COUNCIL.
AND THEN WE HAVE SEVERAL PUBLIC COMMENTERS.
AND THEN WE CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION AMONGST COUNCIL MEMBERS AND GIVE OUR FEEDBACK AND DIRECTION.
FIRST UP WE HAVE COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS.
AND I REALIZE THAT THEY'RE THEY'RE DRIVING PAST DIFFERENT.
SO IS THERE ANY THOUGHT TO JUST MAKING IT THE SAME SPEED ALL THE WAY ACROSS? THAT WAS BROUGHT TO US BY THE TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION, BUT WE ARE ADVISING AGAINST THAT BECAUSE AS YOU GET CLOSER TO LONE TREE, THE LAND USE CHANGES.
[01:55:03]
THERE'S A LOT MORE INDUSTRIAL LAND USE PAST LONE TREE AND THE ROAD BECOMES MUCH STRAIGHTER.AND SO THE CHARACTER OF IT DEFINITELY LENDS ITSELF TO BEING 40MPH.
SO WE WE FEEL THAT THERE'S A BIG DISTINCTION ONCE YOU GET ONCE YOU GET PAST LONE TREE, THAT SPEED LIMIT SHOULD BE KEPT HIGHER THAN THE SPEED LIMIT OF THE REST OF THE ROAD IS.
AND I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE SPEED LIMITS ON BUTLER, YOU KNOW, A YEAR AGO.
AND IT SEEMS LIKE I REMEMBER A COMMENT OR RESPONSE SAYING THAT IT WASN'T.
DO YOU REMEMBER THAT OR DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT? YES. SO THAT'LL GO TO ARIZONA TITLE 28 STATUTES THAT SAY YOU HAVE TO DO AN ENGINEERING STUDY BEFORE YOU CHANGE THE SPEED LIMITS ON A ROAD.
SO AT THE TIME WE HADN'T STUDIED THE ROAD.
BUT NOW THAT WE DO HAVE THE RESULTS THERE'S THERE IS STILL AN OPTION.
LIKE WE HAVE OUR OWN RECOMMENDATION.
BUT IF COUNCIL LOOKS THROUGH THE RESULTS AND FEELS THAT A LOWERED SPEED LIMIT COULD BE BENEFICIAL, I BELIEVE THERE'S IT'S POSSIBLE TO DO THE ORDINANCE TO LOWER THE ROAD, TO LOWER THE SPEED AT THIS POINT.
AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION.
WHEN YOU DO A STUDY, DO YOU DO I MEAN, IS IT THERE, YOU KNOW, FOR LIKE DAYS AT A TIME, OR IS IT ONLY FOR, LIKE, FROM, YOU KNOW, MAYBE 8:00 TO 2:00 OR WHATEVER? IS THERE SPECIFIC TIMES OR IS IT JUST 24 OVER SEVEN WHEN YOU DO THE STUDY? SO WE SET THIS STUDY UP FOR NINE DAYS THAT IT WAS A TUBES ON THE ROAD.
AND THEY CONTINUOUSLY COLLECTED DATA FOR THOSE NINE DAYS.
OKAY. AND THAT'S 24 OVER SEVEN CORRECT.
OKAY. THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY.
WELL. THANK YOU. WHEN YOU DO THESE TWO STUDIES, YOU DON'T AVERAGE IT OVER THE 24 HOURS.
YOU HAVE DATA FOR ANY GIVEN TIME, RIGHT? IN OTHER WORDS, WOULD THE SPEED LIMIT THE THE PREVAILING SPEED MIGHT HAVE BEEN 35 MILES AN HOUR BETWEEN 1 AND 2:00 OR SOMETHING, AS OPPOSED TO WELL, WE AVERAGED IT OVER 24 HOURS.
AND WE DO TAKE THE AVERAGE OVER THE ENTIRE TIME SPAN.
THE ONES THAT WOULD KIND OF SKEW THE RESULTS AND JUST LOOK AT THE ONES THAT WOULD BE FREE FLOWING.
OKAY. MY SECOND QUESTION IS ARE THERE ANY RULES OR GUIDELINES ON HOW RAPIDLY YOU CHANGE THE SPEED LIMIT? AND BY THAT, I MEAN, IF YOU'RE GOING DOWN A ROAD AND THE SPEED LIMIT IS 30 AND ALL OF A SUDDEN IT GOES TO 50 OR VICE VERSA, IT'S 50 AND ALL OF A SUDDEN GOES TO 25.
ARE THE RULES ON LIKE, NO, NO, NO, NO.
YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE IT IN, YOU KNOW, 5 OR 10 MILES PER HOUR INCREMENTS, FOR INSTANCE, IN THIS CASE, WE COULD CHANGE THE SPEED LIMIT TO 30 AND THEN IT WOULD GO RIGHT TO 40.
OR WE COULD GO FROM MAKE IT 30 AND THEN GO 35 AND THEN GO 40.
I BELIEVE GOING FROM 30 TO 35 TO 40 WOULD BE ALLOWABLE.
I'D HAVE TO DOUBLE CHECK. AND I CAN COME BACK TO YOU WITH A CLEAR ANSWER ON THAT.
ALL RIGHT. SO YOU MIGHT HAVE TO LOOK INTO IT, BUT IF HYPOTHETICALLY, WE COULD GO FROM 30 TO 40 AND GOING IN THE OTHER DIRECTION, 40 TO 30, I BELIEVE WE'D WANT TO STAY AT FIVE MILE PER HOUR INCREMENTS, BUT I'D HAVE TO CHECK.
THANK YOU. MAYOR. COMING ATTRACTION, YEAH.
AND I THINK PROBABLY WE ALL HAVE LOTS OF COMMENTS TO MAKE AFTER PUBLIC COMMENT.
SO FIRST UP, WE HAVE DAPPER DRE AND THEN MATTHEW WISE.
[02:00:01]
I'M GLAD THIS SCREEN IMAGE STAYED UP BECAUSE IN BETWEEN THE MILTON AND BEAVER STREET, YOU HAVE THE SOUTH HUMPHREYS CROSSING THAT IS DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM HIGH COUNTRY CONFERENCE CENTER.THEN YOU HAVE BEAVER STREET, THEN YOU HAVE SAN FRANCISCO STREET.
THE MOST CONCERNING OMISSION OF DATA THAT I SEE IN NOT ONLY THE SUMMARY, BUT I ALSO READ THE EXTENDED OBSERVATIONS ON A LOT OF THIS IS THAT THERE'S NOT A LOT OF CROSS TRAFFIC CONSIDERATION.
I THINK YOU DO HAVE SOME NUMBERS AT THE CROSSING OF RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIGH COUNTRY CONFERENCE CENTER, WHICH IS ONE OF THOSE BLINKY ONES, AND I BELIEVE OVER AN EIGHT HOUR PERIOD THAT WAS SOMEWHERE IN THE 650 PEOPLE, INDIVIDUAL USERS, WHETHER THAT WAS PEDESTRIANS OR SCOOTERS OR BIKES, PEOPLE WALKING DOGS, THAT KIND OF STUFF.
SO IF THAT'S OVER EIGHT HOURS, THAT'S ABOUT 80 PEOPLE PER HOUR USING JUST THAT CROSSING.
THEY HAD TO TAKE THEIR RIGHT TURN ONTO BUTLER, THEY SPEED UP.
THEY SLOW DOWN FOR THE PEOPLE CROSSING AT HIGH COUNTRY CONFERENCE CENTER.
THEY SPEED UP. THEY SLOW DOWN AT THE PEOPLE CROSSING AT BEAVER STREET, THEY SPEED UP.
THEY SLOW DOWN AT THE PEOPLE CROSSING AT SAN FRANCISCO STREET.
THEY SPEED UP. THEY SLOW DOWN AT PEOPLE CROSSING AT LONE TREE STREET.
AND OF COURSE, YOU HAD JUST THE MODELING THAT THEY TALKED ABOUT WITH THE GENERAL THAT WAS PRESENTED, BUT THEY ALSO DID A US LIMIT TWO, WHICH IS THE NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION ADMINISTRATION MODELING.
AND THAT SAID IT COULD DROP TO 30MPH.
SO ONE STUDY SAYS YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T DO IT.
ONE STUDY SAYS YOU PROBABLY SHOULD.
SO I WOULD SAY IF ONE STUDIES NATIONAL AND ONE STUDIES LOCAL, YOU CAN TAKE THE NATIONAL ONE IF YOU WANT TO, ANY AMOUNT OF INFRASTRUCTURE, ANY AMOUNT OF CONSIDERATION FOR ANYTHING BESIDES CARS HELPS ALL ROAD USERS.
SO PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE JUST CONSIDER THAT BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE USE THAT CORRIDOR, A LOT OF PEOPLE PROBABLY WOULD USE THAT CORRIDOR MORE IN THINGS THAT ARE NOT CARS. IF YOU MADE IT COMFORTABLE, IF YOU MADE IT SAFE, IF YOU JUST DID ANYTHING.
BESIDES ALWAYS CONSIDERING HOW FAST CARS CAN GO, SLOW THEM DOWN NO MATTER WHAT.
PUT IN GEOMETRY BECAUSE THAT HELPS OUT.
INFRASTRUCTURE IS INFRASTRUCTURE.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MATTHEW WISE AND THEN JEFFREY MCCARROLL.
AH HELLO TO THE CITY COUNCIL TO THE MAYOR, TO THE VICE MAYOR.
I WANT TO FIRST THANK THE PEOPLE WHO FOUGHT SO HARD FOR THIS SAFE STREETS GRANT.
THEY GO AGAINST OUR COMMITMENTS TO VISION ZERO, TO THE ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION MASTER PLAN.
I BELIEVE THAT THEY GO AGAINST THE VALUES THAT WE'VE STATED AS A COMMUNITY.
I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WAS AN INTENTIONAL OMISSION OR NOT, BUT IT HIDES THE FACT THAT THIS IS NOT A RELEVANT GUIDELINE FOR A COMPLEX URBAN CORRIDOR LIKE BUTLER AVE, WHERE EVEN OUR OWN CITY COUNCIL MEMBER MENTIONED THAT THEY ALMOST RAN A RED LIGHT ON THIS CORRIDOR.
AND WE KNOW THAT IT'S IT'S A COMPLEX AREA.
WE CAN USE DIFFERENT PERCENTILES THAN THAT.
IF THAT MEANS THAT THEIR NEIGHBORS AND FRIENDS AND FAMILY ARE SAFER.
WE CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE LONG TRAFFIC DELAYS CAUSED BY THE FREQUENT COLLISIONS WE SEE ON BUTLER AVE, BUT WE CERTAINLY CANNOT AFFORD ANOTHER MAJOR COLLISION ON THIS CORRIDOR LIKE WE HAD IN THE PAST.
[02:05:05]
AND SO WE NEED TO CONSIDER OTHER FACTORS THAN THESE OUTDATED GUIDELINES.THANK YOU. JEFFREY MCCARROLL AND THEN JEFFREY WHITAKER.
MADAM MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, COUNCIL AND STAFF, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK HERE.
I WAS GOING TO SAY SOME DIFFERENT THINGS, BUT JUST READING OVER FROM THE AGENDA TODAY.
JUST POINT OUT A FEW THINGS HERE.
LESSEN THE STAFF REQUIREMENTS.
WOULD CHANGING THE CORRIDOR, CLEARLY COMMUNICATING REASONABLE AND PRUDENT SPEEDS, ENFORCING CREATING AN EFFECTIVE ENFORCEMENT ENVIRONMENT FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT? ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE MONEY BASED.
THEY ARE ALL FULLY AND COMPLETELY WRAPPED AROUND THE IDEA OF HOW MUCH IT WILL COST.
AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION WHEN PUBLIC SAFETY IS INVOLVED.
WE'VE SEEN, YOU KNOW THESE DIFFERENT THINGS.
COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY, I APPRECIATED YOUR COMMENT ABOUT THE THE STREET LIGHTS.
WOULD THAT WOULD HE HAVE MAYBE SEEN IT IF HE WAS GOING 30 AND NOT 35? I DON'T KNOW. I KNOW 30 IS SAFER THAN 35.
I KNOW PHYSICAL BARRIERS ARE SAFER THAN PAINTED LINES.
AND IF WE CAN SIT UP HERE AND TALK ABOUT BEAUTIFICATION PROJECTS, SOCIAL MEDIA PROJECTS, ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS, WHY CAN'T WE PUT THIS MONEY INTO KEEPING OUR RESIDENTS SAFE? I, YOU KNOW, I'M A LEFTIST SNOWFLAKE, BUT I STILL UNDERSTAND THAT MONEY DOESN'T GROW ON TREES.
BUT THIS TO ME, IS IS NOT AN ISSUE TO BE DEBATED.
THESE THINGS CANNOT COST THAT MUCH MONEY.
IN LIGHT OF THE SAFETY OF OUR PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WE LOST A BEAUTIFUL WOMAN.
WE HAVE SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT WILL EXPERIENCE PHYSICAL PAIN THE REST OF THEIR LIFE.
WE HAVE DOZENS OF PEOPLE THAT WILL EXPERIENCE EMOTIONAL AND MENTAL ANGUISH THE REST OF THEIR LIFE.
CAN'T WE DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO STOP THAT FROM HAPPENING AGAIN? YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE THAN THIS, BUT I THINK THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL PLACE TO START OF LOW SLOWING EVERYBODY DOWN, KEEPING THOSE STRUCTURES IN PLACE THAT ARE GOING TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFE.
THANK YOU. GEOFFREY WHITAKER AND THEN RYAN DRENDEL.
GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR, COUNCIL AND STAFF.
THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK WITH Y'ALL.
THAT'S 19 YEARS AGO, AND I'M CONCERNED ABOUT ALL THESE THINGS COMING UP.
I JUST WANT TO TELL YOU HOW I FEEL WHEN I COMMUTE.
I FEEL A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
I FEEL ALIVE, I FEEL INVIGORATED, AND I FEEL SCARED AND I FEEL THREATENED.
AND ONE OF THOSE FEELINGS OF FEAR WAS MITIGATED WITH THE BARRIERS.
AND NOW I'M HEARING THAT WE MIGHT TAKE A STEP BACK TO REMOVE THOSE.
AND SO NOW I'VE GOT TO JUGGLE THAT AGAIN.
I FEEL FEAR WHEN THE SPEED LIMITS ARE HIGHER AND NOW THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOWER THEM.
AND WE SAW THE BULLET POINT EARLIER DONE BY THE STAFF THAT SAYS LOWER SPEEDS IS SAFER.
WE ALL KNOW THE SCIENCE IS REAL.
SO IT SHOULDN'T BE HARD TO ASK TO LOWER IT FOR A SAFER COMMUNITY.
THE LAST THING I WANT TO SAY IS, IS THAT BY COMMITTING TO HIGHER SPEEDS, TO COMMITTING TO REMOVING OF PHYSICAL BARRIERS, IS COMMITTING TO MORE VIOLENCE.
[02:10:01]
AND I THINK THAT'S THE WRONG COMMITMENT, THE WRONG VALUE THAT WE CAN TAKE IN THIS MATTER.THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME.
THANK YOU, RYAN DRENDEL AND THEN JOSEPH KOENIG.
I'VE LIVED IN FLAGSTAFF FOR FIVE YEARS.
I'M HERE TODAY SPEAKING AS A CYCLIST WHO USES BUTLER AVENUE, CROSSES BUTLER AVENUE EVERY SINGLE DAY.
I'M SPEAKING AS A FACULTY MEMBER OF NAU WHOSE STUDENTS CROSS BUTLER AVENUE EVERY SINGLE DAY.
I'VE PERSONALLY BEEN STRUCK BY A VEHICLE ON MILTON AVENUE DUE TO THE LACK OF PROTECTED BIKE INFRASTRUCTURE ON THAT ROAD, AND ON A NEAR DAILY BASIS, I HAVE TO MAKE SOME EVASIVE MANEUVER TO PREVENT BEING HIT OR POSSIBLY KILLED BY A MOTORIST.
I'M HERE TODAY TO REFUTE THE DANGEROUS RECOMMENDATIONS MADE BY SANTANA AND LEMKE'S UPDATE MORE SPECIFICALLY, I'M HERE TO REFUTE THE QUESTIONABLE AND TROUBLING MOTIVATIONS THAT LED TO THESE RECOMMENDATIONS.
WHY SHOULD WE PRIORITIZE THE EASE OF SNOW REMOVAL OVER THE SAFETY OF PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS? IF ANYTHING, WE NEED TO EXPAND OUR SNOW REMOVAL STRATEGIES TO INCLUDE CONSISTENT MAINTENANCE OF BIKE LANES AND SIDEWALKS THROUGHOUT THE WINTER.
THESE NON MOTORIST PATHWAYS ARE FREQUENTLY MADE IMPASSABLE BY BERMS OF SNOW THAT HAVE BEEN PLOWED FROM THE MOTORISTS PATHWAYS, AND THE LACK OF CONSISTENT SNOW REMOVAL ON NON MOTORIST PATHWAYS INCREASES MOTORIST TRAFFIC IN THE WINTER MONTHS.
WHEN I DO DRIVE, IT'S BECAUSE THERE'S SNOW IN THESE LANES WHICH SURELY DISRUPTS THE UNIFORM FLOW THAT IS MOTIVATING THE SPEED LIMIT RECOMMENDATION. SPEAKING OF WHICH, 35MPH ON THIS STRETCH OF BUTLER IS NEITHER REASONABLE NOR PRUDENT.
WE SHOULD NOT AVOID LOWERING A DANGEROUS SPEED LIMIT, JUST BECAUSE IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO ENFORCE LAWS THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO ENFORCE, PERHAPS OUR LAWS THAT OUGHT TO BE ENFORCED. AND YEAH, I'LL SKIP A LITTLE BIT HERE.
ULTIMATELY, I THINK TODAY'S DEBATE STEMS FROM THE ENTANGLED NATURE OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND ALL THREE HAVING DIFFERENT SPEEDS AND DIFFERENT LEVELS OF SPATIAL AWARENESS.
THEN WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO DEBATE THE SPEED LIMIT THAT WOULD BE LEAST DEADLY.
WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT HOW PROTECTED BIKE LANES MAY DISRUPT THE EFFORTS TO REMOVE SNOW.
I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT THE TRAFFIC IN OUR TINY TOWN IS TOO CONGESTED, AND I THINK EXPANDING THESE INFRASTRUCTURES FOR CYCLISTS AND PEDESTRIANS WILL HELP REDUCE TRAFFIC FOR ALL.
THANK YOU AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND CONSIDERATION.
THANK YOU, JOZEPH KENIG AND THEN ADAM SHIMONI.
GOOD EVENING, JOSEPH KOENIG, RESIDENT OF THE CITY.
I AM THE CHAIR OF THE TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION.
I HAVE A LOT OF LITTLE THINGS THAT I COULD SAY, BUT I.
YOU KNOW, HEARING EVERYBODY TALK IT.
IT'S CONFUSING WHY? I NEED TO TRY AND ARGUE ALL THESE LITTLE THINGS TO JUSTIFY WHY LOWERING THE SPEED LIMIT MAKES SENSE.
YOU KNOW, LIKE WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK AND FORTH AND I DON'T KNOW, IT JUST IT SEEMS CLEAR TO ME.
AND IT YEAH, BUT I'VE GOT TWO MINUTES LEFT, SO I'LL START GOING THROUGH SOME OF THEM.
ONE OF THE THINGS I WANT TO SAY IS THAT STUDIES THAT EVALUATE THE CURRENT SPEED WILL PROBABLY FIND PEOPLE GO THAT SPEED, AND TO USE THAT AS JUSTIFICATION, NOT TO LOWER THE SPEED, I THINK IS A FAILURE OF IMAGINATION AND OF OF WHAT WE DO AS TRYING TO BUILD THE COMMUNITY THAT WE WANT TO LIVE IN.
IF WE DO ANOTHER SPEED STUDY, I DON'T THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO DO IT UNTIL WE LOWER THE SPEED AND ENFORCE THAT SPEED, AND THEN GIVE IT SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR FOR PEOPLE TO SETTLE IN AND THEN DO A SPEED STUDY, YOU KNOW, OTHERWISE IT'S A WASTE OF EVERYBODY'S TIME.
A COMMENT ON SO THIS IS A ONE MILE OF ROAD THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AT 30MPH.
THAT TAKES TWO MINUTES TO GET THROUGH IT AT 35 MILES AN HOUR, THAT'S ONE MINUTE AND 43 SECONDS.
[02:15:06]
THAT'S 17 MILES, 17 SECONDS DIFFERENT.AND THAT'S NOT INCLUDING FOUR TRAFFIC LIGHTS.
WHAT WILL BE TWO PEDESTRIAN CROSSINGS AND TRAFFIC? IF YOU'RE EVER ON THIS ROAD AT A BUSY TIME, YOU'RE SITTING THROUGH MULTIPLE LIGHTS ANYWAY.
SO I LIKE I'M STRUGGLING TO SEE HOW THIS ISN'T MORE APPARENT.
OF THE IMPORTANCE OF CHANGING THE SPEED AND WHY IT'S SO WE COULD DO IT, AND IT WOULD THEN BE CHANGED, AND THEN WE'D BE DONE WITH THIS, AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO WASTE EVERYBODY'S TIME WITH ALL THESE CONVERSATIONS STILL.
ANOTHER COMMENT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THIS 40 MILE PER HOUR SECTION.
IT IS IN A MORE INDUSTRIAL AREA.
THERE ARE A TON OF NOT THERE A TON, THERE ARE TWO ROUTES GOING IN AND OUT OF THAT.
AGAIN, IF YOU DRIVE THAT SECTION, THERE'S THIS BIG CURVE IN IT.
IT'S HECTIC AT TIMES TRYING TO MISS PEOPLE DRIVING IN AND OUT OF THAT.
THANKS. THANK YOU, ADAM SHIMONI, AND THEN TYLER DENHAM.
HI, MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS.
SEE LEADERSHIP, SEE STAFF MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC.
VERY EXCITED ABOUT TONIGHT'S CONVERSATION AND GRATEFUL FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.
THIS HAS BEEN A LONG TIME COMING.
WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THESE LANES AND THE SPEEDS FOR QUITE SOME TIME, AND I AM SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF FLAGSTAFF BIKING ORGANIZATION TONIGHT, WHO HAS BEEN INVOLVED WITH THESE PILOT LANES SINCE THE BEGINNING.
THE INTENTION BEHIND THESE LANES ORIGINALLY WAS TO SUPPORT THE 60% POPULATION OF POTENTIAL RIDERS.
BUT THE 60% WHO AREN'T AS COMFORTABLE ARE REALLY WHAT THIS PILOT DEMONSTRATION WAS AIMING TO BEGIN TO CHIP AWAY AT IN TOWN, RIGHT ALONG A NORTH SOUTH CORRIDOR AND AN EAST TO WEST CORRIDOR.
WE'VE ALSO LEARNED THAT CARS LIKE TO HIT THEM.
THEY WERE HITTING THEM. THEY FELT LIKE AT RISK OF HITTING THEM.
ONE OPTION WAS TO LOWER THE SPEED.
WHAT OPTION DID WE CHOOSE? REMOVE THE ONES THAT WERE GETTING HIT THE MOST.
THOSE ARE POTENTIAL INDIVIDUALS WHO COULD BE RIDING IN THOSE BIKE LANES THAT WERE CHOOSING TO LET THE CAR CRUISE WITH CONVENIENCE OVER THE PEDESTRIAN AND THE CYCLISTS LIFE GETTING HIT.
WHERE WE HAVE REMOVED THOSE BIKE LANES ON BUTLER AND PUT IN DOUBLE STRIPED PAINTS OF LINES OF PAINT, YOU'LL SEE CARS GOING FASTER AND YOU'LL SEE THEM SWERVING IN AND OUT OF THE BIKE LANE WHERE THOSE BARRIERS USED TO BE.
SO IF ANYTHING, I'D IMPLORE YOU ALL TO CONSIDER PUTTING MORE OF THOSE BIKE LANE SEPARATED BARRIERS BACK IN AND AND PERHAPS EVEN AS A SOLUTION, RATHER THAN PUTTING THEM IN AS ONE FULL STRIP, DO IT EVERY THIRD RIGHT.
CREATE SPACE TO ALLOW FOR THE TRASH CANS TO GO BETWEEN THE BIKE LANE AND THE VEHICLE LANE.
I THINK THAT WOULD REALLY SOLVE A LOT OF ISSUES FOR CYCLISTS AND FOR THE TRASH.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT OTHER TOWNS DO THAT I'VE SEEN WHERE THEY PUT THEM IN PERIODICALLY.
AND ALSO, IF CONCRETE'S AN ISSUE, THAT'S KIND OF A MESSAGE FOR STAFF.
AND I'M CURIOUS IF WE CAN TRY SOME DIFFERENT APPROACHES.
YES, WE DEFINITELY NEED TO LOWER THE SPEED.
EAST BUTLER, AS WE'RE PLANNING, THAT CORRIDOR SHOULD ALSO BE AT 30 MILES AN HOUR, BUT AT LEAST THE SECTION THAT'S GOING THROUGH MORE OF AN URBAN CONTEXT SHOULD BE 30 MILES AN HOUR HERE AS WELL. I'M OUT OF TOWN, BUT I'LL JUST SAY DON'T PHOENIX FLAG.
WE ARE OUR OWN COMMUNITY AND WE LIKE OUR QUALITY OF LIFE.
[02:20:03]
I ON THE SPEED LIMITS ALONG BUTLER I AGREE WITH THE STAFF REPORT THAT MERELY REDUCING THE SPEED.TYLER, CAN YOU PUT THE MIC CLOSER TO YOUR.
THAT'S FOR ONLINE PEOPLE, NOT FOR US.
THE SPEED OF FREE FLOWING TRAFFIC IS DICTATED BY THE DESIGN OF THE ROAD, AND A LARGE MISMATCH BETWEEN THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT AND THE DESIGN SPEED LIMIT CAN CAUSE ISSUES. BUT IN THE LONG RUN, I THINK DESIGN CHANGES TO BRING DOWN THE SPEED OF FREE FLOWING TRAFFIC.
AS RECOMMENDED BY THE FEDERAL HIGHWAY ADMINISTRATION MODEL.
THAT WAS IN THE REPORT, BRINGING IT DOWN TO 30 WAS THE SUGGESTION WOULD BE A PRUDENT.
AND AS FOR THE PILOT BIKE LANES, ANOTHER QUESTION.
I'M CURIOUS WHAT ALTERNATIVE DESIGNS HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED THAT COULD REDUCE THE MAINTENANCE BURDEN ON STAFF WHILE STILL PROVIDING SOME PROTECTION? WHEN I LOOKED AROUND AT OTHER CITIES FOR EXAMPLES, A COMMON DESIGN I SAW WAS SMALL MOUNDS OF HARDENED RUBBER SPACED OUT ALONG THE STREET, AND THE HARDENED RUBBER SEEMS TO HOLD UP TO COLLISIONS BETTER THAN THE CONCRETE MATERIAL THAT'S CURRENTLY USED DOES, AND THE FREQUENT GAPS MAKE IT EASIER FOR A CYCLIST TO WEAVE IN AND OUT AROUND OBSTRUCTIONS.
I'M JUST THROWING THAT OUT THERE FOR THOUGHT.
AND YEAH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
SO WE HAVE A COUPLE OF ONLINE COMMENTERS.
SAM, YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND UNMUTE AND OFFER YOUR COMMENTS NOW.
WONDERFUL. THANK YOU. CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES WE CAN. PERFECT.
THANK YOU, MAYOR AND COUNCIL, I'M PLEASED TO BE WITH YOU TODAY.
AS A MEMBER, I'VE BEEN ABLE TO SEE A PREVIOUS VERSION OF THIS PRESENTATION BY STAFF.
I ALSO ATTENDED THE TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION MEETING ON THIS TOPIC, AND I'M VERY PLEASED TO SEE THAT STAFF HAVE INCLUDED AND INTEGRATED SOME OF THE FEEDBACK THEY RECEIVED REGARDING VISION ZERO AND THE NEEDS OF BICYCLISTS AND PEDESTRIANS IN THIS VERSION.
I'M SURE WE'RE ALL AWARE, BUT JUST TO SAY VERY EXPLICITLY WHAT THE STAKES OF THIS DECISION ARE.
AND THE STAKES ARE PEOPLE'S LIVES, RIGHT? WE KNOW, BASED ON DATA, THAT A PEDESTRIAN WHO'S INVOLVED IN A CRASH AT 35MPH HAS ROUGHLY A 1 IN 4 PERCENT OR 1 IN 4 CHANCE OF DYING FROM THAT COLLISION.
RIGHT. THAT'S WHY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SPEEDS.
WHEN PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS ASK STAFF TO CONSIDER LOWERING THE SPEED.
WE ARE ASKING YOU TO PROTECT OUR LIVES.
WITH REGARDS TO BUTLER AND THE SPEED ON BUTLER PARTICULARLY.
I DID WANT TO SHARE THAT WHILE STAFF MENTIONED THAT CRASHES ON BUTLER ARE ROUGHLY EQUIVALENT TO OTHER STREETS AND FLAGSTAFF, I ASSUME THAT THAT DATA IS ONLY FOR VEHICLES BECAUSE THE CITY'S CRASH DATA INDICATES THAT ACTUALLY, BUTLER IS THE SECOND MOST DANGEROUS STREET IN FLAGSTAFF FOR PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS IN TERMS OF AVERAGE NUMBER OF CRASHES AND COLLISIONS.
SO I'M NOT CERTAIN, AND I WOULD BE GLAD TO BE CORRECTED IF THAT DATA WAS FACTORED IN.
BUT, YOU KNOW, BUTLER IS ONLY LESS DANGEROUS THAN MILTON.
MILTON IS SO DANGEROUS THAT ADOT JUST WROTE A WHOLE REPORT ABOUT HOW DANGEROUS IT IS FOR ROAD USERS.
A LOT OF FOLKS HAVE SPOKEN TO POINTS I WOULD HAVE MADE.
CAR OWNERSHIP IS NOT A PREREQUISITE FOR CITIZENRY IN THE CITY OF FLAGSTAFF.
AND NOT OWNING A CAR, CHOOSING TO USE OTHER MODES OF TRANSPORTATION SHOULD BE JUST AS ACCESSIBLE AS CHOOSING TO OWN A CAR, RIGHT? WE KNOW THAT MANY FOLKS WHO CANNOT AFFORD CARS USE OTHER MODES OF TRANSPORTATION.
THEIR NEEDS NEED TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR.
NOT ONLY DO THEY NEED TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR, THEY NEED TO BE PLANNED FOR.
[02:25:03]
MAYOR, MAY I GO ON TO OUR NEXT PUBLIC COMMENTER? YES, PLEASE. THANK YOU.ANTHONY, YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND UNMUTE AND OFFER YOUR COMMENTS NOW.
HI, THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TODAY.
I'M WITH FLAGSTAFF BIKING ORGANIZATION AS WELL.
THE IRONY OF SPENDING A HALF AN HOUR EARLIER IN THIS MEETING DISCUSSING.
THE PROBLEM WITH ROLLED CURBS THAT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO PARK ON THE SIDEWALK, BUT THEN TALKING ABOUT TAKING OUT BARRIERS TO KEEP MOVING CARS FROM RUNNING PEOPLE OVER IS NOT LOST ON ME.
SO I THAT WAS REMARKABLE TO ME TO HEAR THAT CONVERSATION.
I'D ALSO POINT OUT THAT THAT SCHOOL ZONES ARE ENTIRELY POINTLESS IF ROAD DESIGN PARAMETERS ARE THE ONLY DETERMINING FACTOR FOR REASONABLE SPEED LIMITS, WE MIGHT AS WELL ELIMINATE ALL THE SCHOOL ZONES AND THOSE 15 MILE AN HOUR SPEED LIMITS, SINCE THEY'RE OFTEN ON ROADS THAT ARE 30 OR 35 MILES AN HOUR.
OTHERWISE, OBVIOUSLY ENFORCEMENT WOULD HAVE TO BE PART OF A NEW LOWER SPEED LIMIT.
IT'S REMARKABLE HOW MANY TIMES WE'VE HAD TO COME TO THE TABLE ON THIS ISSUE.
AS FOR BICYCLISTS AND PEDESTRIANS AS THEY SEEM TO BE DOING, I GET THERE'S CHALLENGES.
THERE'S CHALLENGES IN ANYBODY'S VOCATION, ANY JOB.
AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW HARD IT IS TO REMOVE CINDERS FROM A BIKE LANE IF WE TRY TO PROTECT CYCLISTS FROM MOVING VEHICLES, OR HOW THE DESIGN PARAMETERS FOR A ROAD MAKE IT HARD TO ENFORCE A LOWER SPEED LIMIT, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED AND BADLY INJURED.
LET'S SEE THE STAFF OF THE CITY TRYING TO WORK HARD TO FIND GOOD, PROACTIVE, CREATIVE SOLUTIONS RATHER THAN PUSHING BACK ON EVERY EFFORT.
I HAVE TO KEEP COMING AND TALKING AT THESE MEETINGS AND SAYING THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
IT'S IT'S REMARKABLE TO ME THAT IT'S TIME TO MOVE THESE THINGS FORWARD, NOT KEEP STEPPING BACKWARDS.
THANK YOU. WE'VE HAD ANOTHER COMMENT CARD SUBMITTED FROM NADINE HART.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT HOUSING TODAY.
I FELT LIKE, YOU KNOW, BIKERS CAN BIKE ON THE SIDEWALK.
AND THEN I STARTED WRITING AND I MOVED AND MY KIDS STARTED RIDING, AND I REALIZED HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS AND HOW FAST CARS REALLY DO GO, AND HOW EVEN IN MY BIG OLD HUMMER, I AM STILL AFRAID OF DISTRACTED DRIVING.
YOU KNOW, WITH MY NEW HOUSE, I CAN'T EVEN RIDE SAFELY TO FAC WEST SIDE.
I DO HAVE TO USE BUTLER ON OCCASION, AND MY DAUGHTER AND I DID GO RUNNING THE OTHER DAY AND I TOLD HER, I SAID, IMAGINE IF WE WERE ON BIKES, WE WOULD BE IN THE ROAD WITH UNRELENTING DRIVERS.
THAT SPEED LIMIT MIGHT BE 35, BUT I GUARANTEE YOU IT'S GOING TO BE 45 WITH DRIVERS OR EVEN 55 EVEN AS IT STANDS, THAT'S A TEN MILE AN HOUR GRACE, THAT A LOT OF DRIVERS ARE DOING AND THEY'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION.
IF YOU GET HIT BY A CAR, IN A CAR, YOU MIGHT BE SAFE.
WHEN YOU'VE GOT YOUR BIKE THAT YOU CAN USE TO GET TO AND FROM WORK, IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR FLAGSTAFF TO BE THE LEADERS THAT WE ARE AND SHOW THE REST OF THE STATE THAT WE ARE PROTECTING OUR BIKERS, AND WE'RE ENCOURAGING HEALTHY AND SAFE TRAVEL.
[02:30:04]
BUT THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS.I THINK WE NEED TO MAINTAIN OUR BIKE LANES.
AND AGAIN, IF AND IF THERE'S ANY NAYSAYERS, JUST TRY IT.
WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO GO FROM A TO B AND SEE HOW SAFE YOU FEEL.
AND I RECOGNIZE THAT THE AGENDA STATED THAT STAFF RECOMMENDS TRANSITIONING THE SEPARATED BIKE LANES. HOWEVER, STAFF HAD PREVIOUSLY GIVEN DIRECTION ON THAT.
NOT TO REMOVE THE SEPARATED BIKE LANES.
SO I GUESS THAT THAT WAS A MISSTATEMENT BY STAFF ON THE AGENDA.
AND SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR BEFORE WE GO TO COUNCIL DISCUSSION.
MY FEELINGS ABOUT THE SPEED LIMIT HAVEN'T CHANGED FROM A YEAR AGO.
I ASKED ON THE CHAT WHAT 66 DOWNTOWN SPEED LIMIT IS, BECAUSE THAT'S A MUCH BUSIER ROAD, AND IT'S 30 DOWNTOWN, AND THEN IT MOVES TO 40 OUTSIDE OF DOWNTOWN.
SO I AGREE THAT THE SPEED LIMIT SHOULD BE REDUCED DOWN TO 30 AND MAYBE EVEN EXTEND IT TO SAWMILL ROAD. NOW THAT WE HAVE A HUGE APARTMENT COMPLEX WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CROSSING, IT'S NO LONGER INDUSTRIAL ON THAT SIDE OF THE ROAD.
WE ARE A TOWN THAT PROMOTES HEALTH AND WELLNESS AND GETTING PEOPLE OUT THERE TO WALK AND BIKE.
AND WE'RE A TOURIST TOWN, AND WE ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO RIDE THEIR BIKES AROUND TO SIGHTSEE.
I'M EXCITED ABOUT OUR THE GRANT THAT WE JUST GOT THAT WILL REALLY IMPROVE BUTLER AND WILL IMPROVE THAT IN WHAT, BY 2027, 2026.
THAT'S FAST FOR THE TIMELINES THAT I NORMALLY SEE IN GOVERNMENT WORK.
BUT I DO THINK THERE'S A LOT OF MERIT TO REDUCING THE SPEED LIMIT.
AND KEEPING OUR PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS SAFE.
SO I'M GOING TO BE IN SUPPORTIVE OF THAT.
I HAVE SOME THINGS TO SAY, BUT I WANT TO.
I DON'T SEE ANY C'S OR Q'S IN THE CHAT.
THERE'S SEVERAL THINGS I WANT TO SAY.
NOT ONCE IN THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS THAT WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING THIS HAVE I HEARD ONE COMPLAINT FROM ANY MEMBER OF STAFF OR ANY OF OUR LEADERSHIP ABOUT THIS EXPERIMENT THAT WE'VE CONDUCTED? THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF COMPLAINING FROM VARIOUS SIDES OF THE PUBLIC, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
THEY HAVE TAKEN OUR DIRECTION, AND THEY HAVE GONE WITH IT.
AND THERE HASN'T EVEN BEEN ANY SIDE CONVERSATIONS OR LITTLE SNIDE REMARKS.
STAFF HAS BEEN COMPLETELY NEUTRAL AND COMPLETELY FOCUSED ON COUNCIL DIRECTION WITH THIS.
I JUST WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AND THANK YOU GUYS.
I I'M REALLY IMPRESSED WITH THAT, ACTUALLY.
YOU KNOW, EVEN THIS EVENING, THERE'S BEEN SOME DISPARAGING COMMENTS ABOUT OUR STAFF.
WHAT'S BEHIND SOME OF THE DECISION MAKING? I DON'T APPRECIATE THAT.
I THINK WE CAN HAVE THIS CONVERSATION WITHOUT VILIFYING ANYBODY.
WITHOUT QUESTIONING PEOPLE'S MOTIVES.
AND I HOPE WE CAN KEEP THE CONVERSATION AT THAT LEVEL.
[02:35:01]
I THINK I THINK FOR THE MOST PART, THIS HAS BEEN FAIRLY RESPECTFUL.AND I'M NOT COMPLAINING TOO MUCH.
I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I BRISTLE WHEN I HEAR POTENTIAL.
YOU KNOW, I CAME INTO THIS CONVERSATION THERE'S WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS NOW HAVING THIS CONVERSATION SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THESE CONCRETE BLOCKS.
AND I'VE, I REMEMBER BACK TO EACH OF THESE CONVERSATIONS AND FEELING.
CONFLICTED IN BOTH DIRECTIONS.
I'VE HAD MANY CONVERSATIONS WITH FOLKS WHO LIKE THEM, AND AT FIRST I WAS I WAS OPEN TO DOING THIS BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS A WORTHWHILE EXPERIMENT. IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD ABSOLUTELY LOOK INTO.
WHY NOT? IT WAS A BIT EXPENSIVE, BUT IT WAS ALSO A GOOD INVESTMENT.
I HAPPEN TO BE THE LAST PERSON TO TALK, AND IT WAS VERY CLEAR THAT IT WAS A33 ROOM AT THE TIME.
I VOTED TO KEEP THE BLOCKS IN PLACE BECAUSE I THINK WE NEEDED ANOTHER SIX MONTHS, A FULL YEAR, TO REALLY HAVE THIS EXPERIMENT COME TO FRUITION AND HAVE ENOUGH DATA TO LOOK INTO IT.
YOU KNOW, AND SINCE THEN, WE'VE GOTTEN THIS WE'VE GOTTEN THE SAFE STREETS FOR ALL.
GRANT, I WANT TO GIVE CREDIT TO MAYOR BECKY DAGGETT, ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE OF US SITTING UP HERE AND AGAIN CITY STAFF FOR MAKING THAT HAPPEN, I THINK IT'S A HUGE WIN.
I THINK IT'S GOING TO MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE.
BUT IT'S A REALLY NICE VICTORY, AND WE SHOULD ALL BE CELEBRATING IT.
AND WE SHOULD ALL BE PATTING EACH OTHER ON THE BACK FOR THAT.
WELL, THE SPEED LIMIT THING, I WAS COMFORTABLE WITH LOWERING THE SPEED LIMIT.
AS OF SEVERAL DAYS AGO WHEN I WENT OUT TO BUTLER AND I HAD SOME, I WAS RUNNING SOME ERRANDS ALL WEEK LONG, AND I DECIDED TO TAKE BUTLER TO DO THOSE, JUST TO EXPERIENCE ALL OF IT FOR MYSELF AND TO BE, YOU KNOW, I'M ON BUTLER ALL THE TIME, BUT I'M USUALLY NOT THINKING ABOUT THESE THINGS.
SO WHAT I WILL NOTE IS THAT I, I AGREE, I THINK WE SHOULD CHANGE.
WE SHOULD CHANGE THE SPEED LIMIT TO 30, AND THAT SHOULD GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO SAWMILL DRIVE.
AFTER THAT, I THINK 40 IS FINE.
LET THE TECHNICAL PEOPLE FIGURE OUT WHETHER OR NOT A TEN MILE AN HOUR JUMP IS APPROPRIATE.
BUT BUT THE CONVERSATION SHOULD BE BASED AROUND THE FACT THAT THAT STRETCH OF BUTLER IS AT 30MPH.
FIVE MILES AN HOUR DOESN'T REALLY GET NOTICED BY THE DRIVER.
SOMEONE MENTIONED IT WAS, LIKE 17 SECONDS FOR THAT WHOLE LENGTH.
AND WITH STOPS, IT'S ALL GOING TO IT'S IT'S ALL GOING TO BE COMPENSATORY ANYWAY.
IT'S ALL GOING TO AVERAGE OUT FIVE MILES AN HOUR SLOWER IS NOT GOING TO BE NOTICED BY ANY DRIVER.
BUT THE KEY POINT HERE IS THAT THE PHYSICS ARE GOING TO CHANGE.
IMMENSELY. THE THE PHYSICS BEHIND A FIVE MILE PER HOUR DROP OF SPEED FOR AN OBJECT THAT IS, THE MASS OF A VEHICLE IS REALLY CONSEQUENTIAL.
SO I JUST THINK THE EQUATION FAVORS DROPPING THE SPEED BY BY A LANDSLIDE.
WITH REGARD TO THE CONCRETE BARRIERS, I'M GOING TO RECOMMEND THAT WE DO KEEP THEM.
AND I WASN'T SURE ABOUT THAT UNTIL THIS EVENING.
AND THE REASON I'M GOING TO RECOMMEND THAT WE KEEP THEM IS SOMETHING I HAVEN'T HEARD YET.
SO IT'S GOING TO BE AN ARGUMENT THAT I MAKE.
THAT HASN'T BEEN PORTRAYED YET.
AND LET'S SEE IF I CAN JUST GET INTO THIS.
SO A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, WE HAD A REALLY CRAZY SNOWSTORM.
IT SURPRISED ME. I THINK IT SURPRISED A LOT OF US.
AND I HAD REASON TO BE OUT SCHLEPPING AND DOING ERRANDS OVER THE SUBSEQUENT FEW DAYS AND JUST REALLY CAME TO GRIPS WITH AN OBSERVATION THAT, THAT THAT REALLY, THAT REALLY GOT TO ME.
[02:40:04]
YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PEDESTRIANS AND A LOT OF CYCLISTS IN THIS TOWN THAT ARE GENERALLY INVISIBLE.AND I DON'T MEAN THAT IN A BAD WAY.
I JUST THINK WE'RE AS A DRIVER.
YOU'RE GOING DOWN THE STREET, YOU'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT THESE THINGS.
BUT WHEN THE SIDEWALKS ARE SUDDENLY GONE AND THERE'S FIVE FOOT BERMS EVERYWHERE, THE.
THAT POPULATION BECOMES VERY VISIBLE.
WHY? BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL WALKING IN THE STREET WITH THE CARS.
AND IT ALWAYS SURPRISES ME, EVEN AS INFORMED AS I AM THAT THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE, SO MANY PEOPLE WALKING ON MILTON, SO MANY PEOPLE WALKING ON THESE, THESE BUSY VEHICULAR STREETS.
SO THEY'RE THERE AND WE TEND NOT TO NOTICE THEM OR THINK ABOUT THEM.
BUT BOY, WHEN WE HAVE TO SHARE THE SAME SPACE THEY BECOME A FORCE OF NATURE.
AND I HAVE SEEN SOMEONE FALL OVER IN THAT SNOW, AND I COULD HAVE EASILY BEEN BY HAPPENSTANCE IN A POSITION TO RUN OVER THEIR HEAD BEFORE I COULD EVEN REACT TO IT.
SO THAT'S A VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION IN AND OF ITSELF.
IT'S A SITUATION THAT'S NOT UNDER OUR CONTROL.
BUT WE DO HAVE CONTROL OVER A LOT OF OTHER ROADS.
AND IT'S REGARDLESS, IT'S THE SITUATION THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.
ACKNOWLEDGE HER OF CLIMATE CHANGE.
I THINK OUR WINTERS ARE GOING TO CHANGE, BUT IN A LOT OF WAYS, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IS WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THESE BIG STORMS LESS FREQUENTLY, BUT WITH MORE INTENSITY. AND SO THE PROBLEM OF WHAT TO DO WITH ALL OF OUR PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS IN OUR ROADS IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO GRAPPLE WITH REGARDLESS.
AND THE ARGUMENT THAT I CAME UP WITH FOR MYSELF AS TO WHY WE NEED TO KEEP THESE BIKE LANES IN PLACE, EVEN WHILE WE'RE WAITING FOR THE GRANT TO COME TO FRUITION.
BUTLER IS GOING TO CHANGE ENORMOUSLY.
IT'S A GREAT SOLUTION FOR THAT WHOLE STRETCH.
AND AFTER THAT POINT, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT GOING TO NEED CONCRETE BARRIERS IN THE STREETS.
BUT THE ARGUMENT THAT CONVINCED ME IS THAT.
IF IF WE CAN'T FIGURE THIS OUT ON BUTLER, AND IF WE CAN'T BE IN THE PRACTICE OF ENGAGING WITH THESE PROBLEMS AND TACKLING THEM AND COMING UP WITH SOLUTIONS, THEN WE'RE NOT PREPARED IN THE FUTURE TO BE DOING IT ON OTHER ROADS.
THIS THIS ISN'T JUST AN EXPERIMENT ABOUT ONE ROAD.
IT'S A TEST FOR OUR COMMUNITY.
DO WE HAVE THE MUSTER? DO WE HAVE THE WILL TO ACTUALLY.
PUT OUR MONEY WHERE OUR MOUTH IS.
GO THROUGH THE DIFFICULT EFFORT AND FACE THE CHALLENGES OF MAKING THIS A MULTIMODAL COMMUNITY.
YOU KNOW, IF WE CAN'T HAVE BIKE LANES IN ON BUTLER AND WE CAN'T KEEP THEM CLEAR DURING SNOWSTORMS, THEN HOW CAN WE EVER ASK ADOT TO GO FURTHER AND DO MORE ON MILTON? WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO GRAPPLE WITH THIS, TO FACE THE CHALLENGE AND TO LEARN AND TO AND TO CREATE A MUSCLE MEMORY AROUND HOW TO DO THIS.
SO FOR ME, THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT BUTLER, BUT IF WE GIVE UP ON BUTLER, IT REPRESENTS A FAILURE.
IT REPRESENTS A FAILURE OF IMAGINATION, AND IT REPRESENTS A SURRENDER TO FUTURE EFFORTS.
IN THE SAME VEIN THAT ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE THERE.
SO I DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP ON THIS, I THINK.
I THINK IT'S A WORTHY I THINK IT'S A WORTHY CAUSE.
IT IS A CHALLENGE THAT WE ARE FACED WITH THAT WE SHOULDN'T IGNORE.
AND THAT'S WHY I'M GOING TO RECOMMEND THAT UNTIL THE THE NEW STREETS ARE PUT IN.
WE KEEP A SEPARATED BARRIER ON BUTLER.
AND WE HAVE THE MORAL HIGH GROUND WHEN WE GO TO ADOT AND WE SAY WE'VE GOT PEOPLE IN THE STREETS DURING SNOWSTORMS AND THEY'RE FALLING OVER INTO TRAFFIC.
HOW CAN WE ASK THEM TO DO MORE IF WE'RE GIVING UP ON THIS PROCESS HERE? SO THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS.
PLEASE. I HOPE WE CAN LOWER THE SPEED TO 30 ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO SAWMILL.
IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL TO DRIVERS.
IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE TO THE PHYSICS.
[02:45:01]
AND I THINK WE SHOULD KEEP THOSE BARRIERS IN PLACE, EVEN THOUGH THEY REALLY ARE CHALLENGING.AND THEY THEY THEY THEY TEST ALL OF OUR PATIENTS.
VERY MUCH I THINK IT'S I THINK IT'S A CHALLENGE WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO FACE.
IT IS A BURDEN THAT WE ARE OBLIGATED TO BEAR.
DID YOU WANT TO MAKE A CLARIFYING COMMENT? YEAH. THANK YOU MAYOR.
THANK YOU, VICE MAYOR, FOR THOSE COMMENTS.
HOW DID WE GET TO THE DISCUSSION OF THE BARRIERS? YOU KNOW, A YEAR AGO, LAST YEAR, AT SOME TIME, THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON THE BIKE PILOT PROJECT, AND WE PRESENTED WE THE STAFF I WAS THERE SPEAKING AS WELL AS MANY OF OUR PUBLIC WORKS AND ENGINEERING STAFF TO THE BIKE AND PED SUBCOMMITTEES AND TO THE TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION AND THEN EVENTUALLY TO THE COUNCIL AT THIS DAIS ON THIS.
AND JUST TO REFRESH OUR MEMORIES, YOU KNOW, THE OUTCOME OF ALL OF THAT WAS A BIT OF A COMPROMISE THAT SOME OF THE BARRIERS IN AREAS THAT WERE PROVING TO BE PROBLEMATIC AND NOT DEFINED BY HARD MAINTENANCE BY THE STAFF, MORE DEFINED BY VEHICULAR COLLISIONS UNAVOIDABLE VEHICULAR COLLISIONS, NOT CARELESS COLLISIONS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE SWERVING, BUT PLACES WHERE THESE WERE NOT EXPECTED TO BE IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO DRIVEWAYS AND CROSS STREETS AND BUSY INTERSECTIONS BEING THE PRIME EXAMPLE.
AND THAT BECOMES EXACERBATED WHEN THE BARRIERS ARE NOT SEEN BECAUSE OF SNOW.
AND SNOW HAPPENS DURING THE PLOW OPERATIONS.
WE CANNOT JUST PICK UP THE SNOW AND MOVE IT FROM THESE ARTERIALS SO IT IS PUSHED TO THE SIDE.
THAT IS THE BEST PRACTICE IS REALLY THE ONLY PRACTICE HERE IN FLAGSTAFF.
AND THERE ARE TIMES, ESPECIALLY AFTER A SIGNIFICANT EVENT, WE JUST HAD ONE.
WE HAD A 36 INCH SNOWSTORM THAT SPANNED A FEW DAYS FROM START TO END, AND IT TOOK A WHILE TO SEE.
THEN THE BARRIERS BECOME MORE VISIBLE.
UNFORTUNATELY, WE YOU KNOW, THERE WERE A FEW THAT WERE LOST.
AND TO ATTRITION, IT'S VEHICULAR COLLISIONS.
IT'S SOMETIMES IT'S THE SNOW PLOWS.
THOSE ARE THE PRACTICALITIES OF THIS.
SO IT'S I SO MUCH THANK YOU, VICE MAYOR, FOR YOUR COMMENTS.
STAFF IS NOT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM OPPOSED TO THE BIKE LANE PROJECTS.
MANY ON STAFF RIDE BIKES, MANY ON STAFF EMBRACE THESE CONCEPTS AND EMBRACE THE IDEALS BEHIND BECOMING MORE MULTIMODAL AND MORE BICYCLE FRIENDLY IN OUR COMMUNITY.
WHEN THE BARRIERS ARE NOT THERE, THE SWEEPING OPERATIONS THAT FOLLOW ONCE THE SNOW AND ICE HAS MELTED AND NOW WE HAVE THE CINDERS, IT BECOMES A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO SWEEP THE CINDERS WITHOUT THE BARRIERS.
IT BECOMES VERY CHALLENGING WHEN THE BARRIERS EXIST, AND WE HAVE A LARGE AGGREGATION OF CINDERS BETWEEN THE BARRIERS AND THE CURBS, AND THAT'S THE STATUS FOR SOME TIME. AND THEN IT TAKES SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT TO COME IN AND SWEEP THOSE OUT.
WHAT KIND OF TIME FRAME WOULD BE INVOLVED TO SEE OUR BIKE LANES BECOME OPERABLE AGAIN? AFTER THE CINDERS WERE SWEPT WHERE THERE ARE NO BARRIERS, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS OCCURRING ABOUT TWO WEEKS AFTER THE EVENT.
AFTER THE STORM EVENT? WITHIN THREE WEEKS SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT WERE WAS IN THE BIKE LANES AND THEY WERE BECOMING MORE CLEAR, INOPERABLE.
SO AFTER A THREE FOOT SNOW EVENT IT TOOK 2 TO 3 WEEKS.
WE ARE OPERATING WITH A GROSSLY UNDERSTAFFED CREW IN OUR STREETS AND OUR SNOWPLOW OPERATIONS AND STREET SWEEPING OPERATIONS.
IT'S JUST THE REALITY OF THE DAY.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S A TRUISM KIND OF ACROSS THE SPECTRUM.
THESE ARE CHALLENGES THAT THE ORGANIZATION LIVES WITH.
AND THEY WERE CHALLENGES LAST YEAR.
THEY'RE MORE THE CASE THIS YEAR.
[02:50:01]
IT IS NOT BECAUSE OF A LACK OF PRIORITIZATION OR AN A SOME SORT OF ADAMANT INSISTENCE THAT WE DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY.THAT IS THE CONTEXT THAT UNDERLIES ALL OF THIS.
WE ALL HAVE FEELINGS ABOUT WHETHER THE BARRIERS ARE EFFECTIVE OR NOT.
I YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO SAY, I ALWAYS APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS BY ALL SPEAKERS.
WHEN TYLER DENHAM COMES UP AND SPEAKS, I USUALLY HAVE A HEIGHTENED INTEREST IN WHAT IS BEING SAID BECAUSE TYLER BRINGS SUCH AN INTUITIVE AND WELL REASONED RESPONSE TO THE THINGS HE ADVOCATES.
AND AND I WOULD JUST ECHO THE THINGS HE MENTIONED.
MAYBE WE SHOULD TRY A DIFFERENT TYPE OF BARRIER.
THE CONCRETE AND REBAR BARRIER HAS NOT BEEN REAL FRIENDLY TO THE COLLISIONS.
AND THAT'S ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS VEHICULAR AND BIKE.
COLLISIONS. AS A CYCLIST, I DON'T LIKE THE BARRIERS.
BUT I'LL TAKE A DRY ROAD RATHER THAN THAN A ONE THAT'S FILLED WITH CINDERS, PROTECTED BY A BARRIER THAT AT THAT POINT OF TIME IS JUST AN IMPEDIMENT.
THAT COULD MEAN MORE INJURY WHEN THE WHEN THE FALL HAPPENS.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO GET VARYING VIEWPOINTS ON THIS.
I HAVE LIVED IN COMMUNITIES WITH THE RUBBER BARRIERS.
THEY SEEM TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE FRIENDLY.
THE RUBBER MOUNTED BARRIERS, PERHAPS.
BUT I DO THINK THAT A LOT OF EDUCATION AND PUBLIC AWARENESS OF THIS HAS TO HAPPEN.
AND IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN YEAR ONE.
YOU KNOW, WE HAD SO MANY VEHICULAR COLLISIONS IN THE FIRST YEAR OF THESE BARRIERS.
SO. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE BEST PRACTICE IS ON THIS.
I LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING BIKE PATHS THAT ARE TOTALLY OFF THE ROADWAY.
WE ARE NOT REMOVING THE CONCRETE BARRIERS.
I WANT TO APOLOGIZE THAT THERE WAS REFERENCE IN SOME OF THE MATERIALS THAT WENT OUT EARLIER, WHEN STAFF HAD ALL THIS DISCUSSION A YEAR AGO, AND WHEN WE WERE IN FRONT OF THE DAIS, WE PROMISED COUNCIL THAT WE WOULD COME BACK FOR A CHECK IN.
THAT IS REALLY WHAT IS HAPPENING TONIGHT.
SHOULD HAVE OCCURRED A WHILE BACK.
THAT'S OKAY. WE TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE FACT THAT IT DID NOT OCCUR PRIOR TO THE WINTER SEASON.
BUT FRANKLY, I THINK THERE'S BENEFIT IN HAVING THIS DISCUSSION IN FEBRUARY AND NOT IN AUGUST.
SO I THINK THERE'S VALUE IN WHAT WE SEE.
MAYBE NEXT YEAR IS A DIFFERENT STORY.
THAT WAS THE COMPROMISE THAT WAS REACHED LAST YEAR, AND SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO REVISIT THAT.
THE ISSUE IN FRONT OF THE COUNCIL RIGHT NOW IS THE SPEED LIMIT.
AND ONE QUICK COMMENT ON THAT.
YOU'RE GOING TO GET DIVERGENT VIEWPOINTS ON THAT FROM.
FROM WITHIN STAFF AND CERTAINLY FROM IN THE COMMUNITY.
I CAME FROM A COMMUNITY IN COLORADO WHERE THE HIGHEST SPEED LIMIT WAS 15 MILES AN HOUR ON ALL ROADS.
BOX CANYON. YEAH, IT'S AN APPLES TO ORANGES COMPARISON.
BUT I'LL GRANT YOU, WE DID NOT HAVE ACCIDENTS INVOLVING VEHICLES AND BIKES AND PEDESTRIANS.
SO THERE'S A LOT TO BE SAID FOR LOWERING SPEED LIMITS.
I THINK I'LL LET IT GO AT THAT.
I THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT DISCUSSION FOR COUNCIL.
I WOULD ENCOURAGE COUNCIL TO LISTEN TO ITS CITIZENRY.
AS MUCH AS YOU'RE LISTENING TO YOUR STAFF ON THIS, YOU'LL YOU'LL GET THE ENGINEERING VIEWPOINTS, YOU'LL GET THE 85 PERCENTILE DISCUSSION, ALL THE FORMULAIC APPROACHES TO THIS. YOU'LL HEAR FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT, YOU'LL HEAR FROM THE ATTORNEYS, YOU'LL HEAR FROM THE COURTS.
EVERYBODY SEEMED TO WEIGH IN ON THIS, SO I FEEL OBLIGATED TO SHARE MY $0.02.
I'M ALL ABOUT LOWER SPEED LIMITS.
[02:55:02]
I'M ALL ABOUT COUNCIL EXERCISING ITS DISCRETION AS POLICYMAKERS TO DECIDE WHAT THE SPEED LIMITS SHOULD BE, AND DO SO WITH GOOD INFORMATION FROM STAFF. BUT IN THE END, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POLICY DISCUSSION, AND IT'S AN IMPORTANT ONE FOR THIS COUNCIL AND IT RESIDES WITH THIS COUNCIL.SO THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME SHARE MY COMMENTS.
THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY.
I SAT THROUGH A LOT OF MEETINGS ON THIS.
I'M THE LIAISON TO THE TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION, AND I SAT THROUGH THEIR MEETINGS ON THESE ISSUES.
I SAT THROUGH THE MEETINGS OF THE BICYCLE AND PEDESTRIAN COMMITTEES.
SO I'VE HEARD THIS MANY TIMES, AND NOT JUST HEARING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN, BUT HEARING THE COMMENTS OF THE COMMISSIONERS. THE 85%.
THIS CAME OUT IN THOSE MEETINGS.
THAT'S JUST ONE WAY OF LOOKING AT THIS.
BUT WE ALSO NEED TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHAT'S THE TRAFFIC, THE PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC.
WHAT'S THE WIDTH OF THE ROADS.
WHAT'S THE TRAFFIC VOLUME? ARE THERE CURVES ON THE ROADS? WHAT'S NEXT TO THE ROADS? AND HERE'S ONE YOU MIGHT GET A LAUGH OUT OF.
I JUST KIND OF NOTICED HOW FAST I GO WHEN I'M GOING DOWN THAT STREET, AND I TEND TO BE GOING ABOUT 25 MILES AN HOUR, AND IT ISN'T LIKE CARS ARE PASSING ME LIKE CRAZY.
BUT THAT JUST IS THE SPEED THAT FEELS NORMAL TO ME.
ALSO POINT OUT THAT, AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE OFFICIAL NAME OF THIS IS, BUT IT'S THE ANALYST IS THIS GUY BY THE NAME OF MARTIN INCE AND IT SAYS FHWA APPENDIX C.
ANYWAY, WHATEVER THIS THING IS, THIS WAS AN ALTERNATE WAY OF LOOKING AT IT, AND ITS CONCLUSION WAS 30 MILES AN HOUR IS WHAT REALLY SHOULD BE SUGGESTED OR AGREED TO.
SO WHAT ARE JIM MCCARTHY'S CONCLUSIONS? I FEEL THAT BETWEEN MILTON AND LONE TREE FOR SURE, 30 MILES AN HOUR BETWEEN, LONE TREE AND SAWMILL, I COULD GO WITH 30 OR I COULD GO WITH 35.
THAT'S KIND OF WHERE MY HEAD'S AT.
SO I DEFINITELY SUPPORT LOWERING THE SPEED LIMIT TO 30.
AFTER LOOKING AT IT FROM ABOUT FIVE DIFFERENT ANGLES.
I'M PRETTY FIRM ON THAT CONCLUSION.
COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET. THANK YOU.
THIS IS A GREAT DISCUSSION AND I'M GLAD WE'RE HAVING IT.
I'LL KEEP MY COMMENTS SHORT AND TO THE POINT.
AND I WILL AGREE WITH STAFF AND THEIR RECOMMENDATION NOT TO REMOVE THE CURRENT BARRIERS.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MAYBE SOME ALTERNATIVES AND ESPECIALLY ON BEAVER.
WE'RE LOOKING AT KEEPING THE BARRIERS THERE.
I DON'T THINK THE CONCRETE LONG TERM IS THE SOLUTION.
SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME ALTERNATIVES FOR THAT.
AND I GUESS I JUST WANT TO GIVE MY COMMENTARY BRIEFLY ON THE CINDER ISSUE.
I'VE BECOME A FAIRLY COMFORTABLE CYCLIST AND THE CINDERS FOR ME ARE HINDERING ME WRITING RIGHT NOW.
AND I'M JUST I'M NOT GOING TO DO IT.
IT JUST I DON'T THINK IT'S VERY SAFE.
I KNOW YOU ALL ARE DOING THE BEST YOU CAN, AND I.
I JUST WANT TO GIVE MY THOUGHT THAT THE CINDERS ARE REALLY A BIG, A BIG HINDRANCE FOR ME.
AND I'M SURE FOR A LOT OF OTHERS IN OUR COMMUNITY.
[03:00:05]
MY FIRST ISSUE IS THAT 30 MILES AN HOUR ON BUTLER FROM MILTON TO.IF YOU LOOK, THERE'S A CURVE RIGHT THERE AND THAT'S AT O'LEARY AND IT'S HARD TO GET OUT OF THERE.
I'VE SAT THERE ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS AND I WATCH PEOPLE TRY AND CROSS.
AND IF YOU'RE GOING 35, 40, WHICH A LOT OF PEOPLE, I THINK DO.
AND I SPEND A LOT OF TIME SITTING IN THE MURDOCH CENTER LOOKING OUT THAT WINDOW.
SO I SEE THAT STREET VERY WELL.
SO. I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE GO TO 30.
AS FAR AS THE BARRIERS LEAVE THEM.
WE'LL FIGURE OUT THE CINDERS AND WE'LL FIGURE OUT THE SNOW.
BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT I WANT TO SAY FROM THIS SEAT IS THAT WE HAVE TO BE A LITTLE MORE GENTLER AND KINDER TO OUR STAFF.
THEY DIDN'T WAKE UP IN THE MORNING AND SAY, I'M NOT GOING TO REMOVE THOSE CINDERS.
I'M GOING TO MAKE THIS A HARD TRIP FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO RIDE.
THEY DIDN'T WAKE UP THAT MORNING.
THEY DIDN'T WANT 36 INCHES OF SNOW.
THE MINIMUM WAGE IN FLAGSTAFF IS, WHAT, $18 AN HOUR NOW? PEOPLE AREN'T SHOVELING SNOW.
THEY'D MUCH RATHER WASH DISHES INSIDE WHERE IT'S WARM.
HOW TO HELP PEOPLE LIVE IN THIS COMMUNITY.
AFFORDABLY. WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO HAVE THIS PROBLEM.
AND SO I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT FOR THOSE OF US.
WHEN WE HEAR FOLKS COMPLAINING.
ABOUT THE CINDERS AND ABOUT THE SNOW.
THAT WE SHARE WITH THEM THE CITY'S ISSUE OR OUR ISSUE AS A COMMUNITY WITH GETTING PEOPLE TO DO THE WORK THAT WE NEED THEM TO DO IN ORDER FOR FOLKS TO RIDE IN THE BIKE LANES.
AND SO THAT MEANS THAT WE ALL HAVE TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF RESPONSIBILITY, AND WE HAVE TO CONFRONT OUR FRIENDS AND OUR COLLEAGUES AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT? THEY DIDN'T WAKE UP THIS MORNING AND SAY, THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE YOUR LIFE MISERABLE.
I'M IN AGREEMENT, I BELIEVE, WITH THE REST OF COUNCIL IN TERMS OF THE SPEED LIMIT.
I BELIEVE I WAS A PROPONENT FOR THAT FROM THE BEGINNING AND REMAINED SO TO THIS POINT.
I DO WANT TO ECHO, AND I WON'T BELABOR IT BY BY GOING INTO TOO MUCH DETAIL.
BUT ECHO COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE MINDFULNESS THAT WE PAY IN THESE CONVERSATIONS TO THE FACT THAT WE ARE ONE COMMUNITY. AND I THINK THAT WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO NOT JUST BECOME SO PASSIONATE FOR THE THE THINGS THAT WE ARE ADVOCATING FOR, THAT WE FORGET THAT THE OTHER PEOPLE WITHIN THIS COMMUNITY HAVE CARES AND CONCERNS AS WELL AND ARE DOING THE BEST THAT THEY CAN TO MAKE THESE SITUATIONS WORK.
SO I, I'M VERY GRATEFUL FOR THE CONVERSATION THAT WE'VE HAD.
I'M GRATEFUL FOR ALL OF THE PUBLIC COMMENTERS.
I'M VERY GRATEFUL FOR THE CITY MANAGER'S COMMENTS, AND I THINK IT BROUGHT AN ELEVATED LEVEL OF MINDFULNESS AND CONSIDERATION TO THE VARIOUS CHALLENGES THAT WE'RE FACING.
NOT JUST AS A CITY STAFF, BUT AS A CITY, AS A CITY, PERIOD.
I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION FOR US TO KEEP IN MIND, BECAUSE WITH EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING FROM THIS DAIS AND AS A COUNCIL AND AS A CITY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS ADVANCING OUR MISSION FOR THE CITY OF OF MEETING THE NEEDS OF, OF ALL AND ENHANCING AND PRESERVING THE LIVELIHOODS AND THE THE VALUES OF OUR CITIZENS.
SO I JUST WANTED TO EXPRESS THAT GRATITUDE WITH THAT CAUTION OF MAINTAINING THAT MINDFULNESS, BUT DEFINITELY IN AGREEMENT ON LOWERING THE SPEED LIMIT.
[03:05:09]
USE OUR ROADWAYS AND REMEMBERING THAT AMONG THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT JUST THE VEHICLE DRIVERS AMONG WHOM I AM ONE BUT ALSO THE PEDESTRIANS AND THE BICYCLISTS AND THOSE IN OTHER FORMS OF MULTIMODAL TRANSPORTATION IN WHEELCHAIRS AND ETC..SO LET'S LET'S JUST KEEP THAT HOLISTIC VISION WHEN WE'RE HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS.
AND I'M GRATEFUL TO SEE THAT WE'RE MOVING FORWARD IN THIS UNIFIED VISION OF OF MOVING THIS FORWARD.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU COUNCIL MEMBER.
I DON'T SEE ANY ADDITIONAL COUNCIL COMMENT.
SO I'VE JOTTED DOWN A COUPLE OF IDEAS, AND MY APOLOGIES FOR NOT BEING THERE WITH YOU THIS EVENING.
I HAD A LONG WEEKEND WITH A FRIEND, AND THAT FRIEND HAS TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID, SO I AM TESTING TO MAKE SURE THAT I DON'T SPREAD IT TO YOU ALL.
SO IN TERMS OF THE SPEED LIMIT, I HAVE BEEN AND CONTINUE TO BE IN SUPPORT OF LOWERING IT. I LIKE THE 30 TO SAWMILL AND THEN 35 BEYOND THAT.
AND I THINK THAT BUTLER AVENUE IS THE PERFECT STREET TO LOWER THE SPEED LIMIT BECAUSE WE ALWAYS WE ALREADY HAVE TRAFFIC CALMING ELEMENTS SUCH AS LANDSCAPE MEDIANS, BIKE LANES AND PROTECTED LANES.
AND FLAGSTAFF HAS ALREADY VOICED SUPPORT FOR VISION ZERO CONCEPTS SUCH AS SPEED MANAGEMENT, SAFER BIKE AND PEDESTRIAN INFRASTRUCTURE, PRIORITIZING TRAFFIC SAFETY AND PRIORITIZING EQUITY IN ALL ASPECTS OF OUR PLANNING AND OUR PROCESSES.
HIGHER DRIVING SKILLS PROVIDE LESS TIME TO PROCESS INFORMATION AND ACT.
THE BRAKING DISTANCE IS LONGER AND THE POSSIBILITY OF AVOIDING A COLLISION IS LESSENED.
HIGH DRIVING SPEEDS LEAD TO A HIGHER CRASH RATE AND HAVE A LIKELY HAVE A GREATER LIKELIHOOD OF MORE SEVERE OUTCOMES, AS WE ALL KNOW. WE'VE HEARD FROM THE BIKE AND PEDESTRIAN COMMITTEES, AS WELL AS THE TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION, THAT THEY ARE IN SUPPORT OF LOWERING THE SPEED LIMIT. LOWERING SPEEDS WILL HELP US PROMOTE WALKING AND BIKING.
AND BECAUSE WE HAVE A COMMITMENT TO VISION ZERO.
SO LOWERING THE SPEED ISN'T THE ONLY MEASURE THAT WE CAN AND WE WILL TAKE.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT OTHER ONES TONIGHT, BUT IT IS AN IMPORTANT ONE, I THINK.
AND SO I APPRECIATE ALL OF STAFF'S ATTENTION TO THIS.
WE'VE ALL BEEN HERE AT THE TABLE, GRAPPLING WITH SOME OF THESE ISSUES FOR HOW WE MOVE CARS AND HOW WE ALSO FOCUS ON MOVING PEOPLE.
AND I APPRECIATE THAT EVERYONE STAYS COMMITTED TO THE CONVERSATIONS.
SO I I THINK THAT STAFF HAS HEARD A CONSENSUS FROM COUNCIL THAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE THE SPEED LIMIT LOWERED ON BUTLER AVENUE.
STAFF, DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE ADEQUATE INFORMATION? THANK YOU, MAYOR DAGGETT.
AND THANK YOU FOR ALL THE PUBLIC COMMENTS AND COUNCIL MEMBER COMMENTS.
WE DO APPRECIATE THAT FEEDBACK.
I DO BELIEVE WE HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION TO GO FORWARD.
I THINK WE JUST MIGHT NEED A FEW THINGS TO CLARIFY, TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE.
THE THE SPEED LIMIT, LIKE LOWERING IT BY FIVE MILES PER HOUR.
IF THAT WAS THE CASE THAT IT FORCED THE VEHICLES TO ALSO DRIVE SLOWER.
THIS WOULD BE A LOT EASIER CONVERSATION.
BUT WE FOUND TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT LOWERING JUST THE SPEED LIMIT WITHOUT DESIGN CHANGES DOESN'T AFFECT HOW PEOPLE DRIVE THE 85TH PERCENTILE SPEED, 50TH PERCENTILE SPEEDS STAY THE SAME.
BUT THAT'S WHY WE ARE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THE SAFE STREETS FOR ALL GRANT, BECAUSE THAT WILL HAVE A BIG IMPACT ON HOW THE ROAD IS DESIGNED AND WE BELIEVE WILL LOWER THE DESIGN SPEED. AND I KNOW THERE'S BEEN TALK ABOUT 30MPH FROM MILTON TO SAWMILL.
THERE'S BEEN TALK ABOUT 30MPH FROM MILTON TO LONE TREE.
[03:10:07]
SO 30 FROM MILTON TO LONE TREE AND THEN 35 FROM LONE TREE TO SAWMILL.THAT WAS THE RESULTS FROM THE US LIMITS TWO STUDY, WHICH IS GOOD.
WE HAVE FOUND IN THE PAST SOMETIMES USE LIMITS TO RECOMMEND HIGHER OR LOWER.
A LOT OF THESE DECISIONS DO COME DOWN TO ENGINEERING JUDGMENT, BUT WE DO ASK COUNCIL THAT IF WE ARE LOWERING THE SPEED LIMIT THAT WE LOWER IT FROM 35 TO 30, FROM MILTON TO LONE TREE AND FROM 40 TO 35 FROM LONE TREE TO SAWMILL.
YES. AND I THOUGHT WHEN I WAS SPEAKING, I HAD MY CAMERA ON, SO MY APOLOGIES.
PLEASE JUMP IN AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.
I HEARD SEVERAL SAY 30 AND 35 IS THERE.
IS THERE ANYONE WHO WANTS TO ARGUE AGAINST THAT? SO 30 TO SAWMILL AND 35 FROM SAWMILL ON.
DO YOU MEAN 35 TO LONE TREE? THAT WOULD BE TO THE END OF THE BLUE LINE IS LONE TREE OR DID YOU WANT THE 30 ALL THE WAY TO SAWMILL? I WILL. SEVERAL OF US SAID THAT WE THOUGHT SAWMILL WOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE.
THANK YOU. AND I JUST WANT TO STATE THAT WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT SIMPLY POSTING A SPEED LIMIT.
DOESN'T MAKE PEOPLE GO THAT SPEED.
BUT I THINK THAT WE ALL ALSO SEE THAT WE'VE ALREADY IMPLEMENTED SOME DESIGNS AND WE'VE GOT LOTS MORE TO ADD TO THAT CORRIDOR.
SO THAT COMBINED WITH LOWERING THE SPEED LIMIT IS IS WHAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE IN ORDER TO START START SLOWING DOWN TRAFFIC ON BUTLER.
JIM AT COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY HAS A COMMENT.
JUST FOR THE RECORD, THE LAST JOB I HAD AS AN ENGINEER, I WORKED IN THE DEPARTMENT CALLED CONTROL SYSTEMS. SO WE STUDIED CONTROLS.
WELL, THIS IS A CONTROL ISSUE.
THE ISSUE IS IF YOU CHANGE AN INPUT, IN THIS CASE THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT, WILL THAT HAVE AN IMPACT AND IF SO, HOW MUCH? WELL, IT'LL PROBABLY WON'T.
IT ISN'T LIKE IT'S THE PUBLIC IS COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS TO THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT.
SO MY COMMENT THEN IN SUMMARY IS THAT IT IT WILL LOWER THE SPEED LIMIT, BUT NOT AS MUCH AS WE WOULD HOPE. WE WOULD HOPE FOR FIVE MILES AN HOUR.
IT'LL PROBABLY BE, I WOULD GUESS, THREE MILES AN HOUR OR MAYBE FOUR.
COMMENT. THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY.
I MIGHT LOOK MAYBE TO JEFF FOR SOME HELP, BUT WE HAVE SEEN STUDIES WHERE BY AND LARGE IT DOESN'T REDUCE MAYBE IN LIKE THE VERY HIGHEST OFFENDERS, BUT IN OTHER TIMES, LIKE THERE'S NO REDUCTION AT ALL, JUST BASED ON THE STUDIES THAT WE'VE SEEN AND THINGS WE'VE DONE ON OUR OWN IN TOWN.
SO. WITHOUT, LIKE, UNDERLYING CHANGES TO THE ROAD, LOWERING THE SPEED.
WE'RE NOT CONFIDENT THAT WE WOULD HAVE A BIG EFFECT.
I CAN BUY THE COMMENT THAT WE'RE NOT CONFIDENT THAT IT'LL HAVE THE DESIRED THE FULL DESIRED EFFECT.
SO, STAFF, DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE ADEQUATE DIRECTION.
YOU HAVE A COMMENT? MAYOR NO, I WILL WITHDRAW BECAUSE WE HAVE THE THE CLARIFICATION THERE.
OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE GREAT CONVERSATION.
AND THANK YOU TO THANKS COUNCIL AND AND TO ALL OF THE PUBLIC COMMENTERS FOR A ROBUST DISCUSSION
[03:15:06]
ON THIS. ALL RIGHT.SO WE ARE DOWN TO PUBLIC PARTICIPATION.
AND I DON'T HAVE ANY INDICATION THAT WE HAVE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION.
SO WE'RE MOVING DOWN TO INFORMATIONAL ITEMS. TWO FROM MAYOR.
COUNCIL, CITY MANAGER AND FUTURE AGENDA ITEM REQUESTS.
[10. Informational Items To/From Mayor, Council, and City Manager; future agenda item requests]
LET'S START WITH COUNCIL MEMBER HOUSE.IT WAS MY PLEASURE LAST WEEK TO OR THIS PAST WEEKEND TO ATTEND THE BLACK RENAISSANCE GALA WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS HARRIS AND SWEET.
IT WAS JUST A BEAUTIFUL EVENING AND A LOT OF FUN.
I AM SORRY TO NOT BE THERE WITH YOU ALL TODAY.
AND THE FIRST MEETING FOR THAT.
IT WAS ONE OF THEIR BIG PRIORITIES IN THE REAPPOINTMENTS TO HAVE CROSS STATE REPRESENTATION AND TO ENSURE THAT OUR VOICE WAS PART OF THE CONVERSATION. SO IT'S MY HONOR TO BE ABLE TO SERVE ON BEHALF OF FLAGSTAFF AND NORTHERN ARIZONA IN THAT CAPACITY.
AND I WILL CLOSE BY JUST WISHING COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS A VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY.
COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET. THANK YOU.
CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL OF THE NEW OFFICERS.
AND THEN LAST SATURDAY I DID ATTEND THE BLACK RENAISSANCE EVENT AND IT WAS WONDERFUL.
AND THANK YOU TO COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS FOR HELPING ME GET INTO THAT.
AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO THANK COUNCIL MEMBER HOUSE FOR SERVING ON THAT COMMISSION.
AND A VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO DEB HARRIS.
THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER MCCARTHY.
WELL, THANK YOU, MAYOR. I HAVE A FAIR REQUEST, AND I HAVE A BRIEF INTRODUCTION.
I JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT MY GRANDFATHER FOUGHT TO PRESERVE DEMOCRACY DURING WORLD WAR ONE.
HE WAS SHOT, BUT HE SURVIVED MOST OF THOSE THAT HE SERVED WITH, THEY DIED.
MY FATHER SERVED IN WORLD WAR TWO.
ALL RIGHT, SO WHAT? WHY DID I BRING THIS UP? I BRING THIS UP BECAUSE OUR COUNTRY HAS STOOD TO PROTECT FREEDOM AND FIGHT FASCISM FOR LONGER THAN ANYONE SITTING IN THIS ROOM HAS BEEN ALIVE. UKRAINE IS THE SECOND LARGEST EUROPEAN COUNTRY AFTER RUSSIA.
UKRAINE, OUR EUROPEAN FRIEND IS UNDER ATTACK.
WE NEED TO CONTINUE OUR SUPPORT FOR A FREE EUROPE.
WE NEED TO SEND SUPPLIES TO THE BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN THAT ARE FIGHTING TO PROTECT THEIR COUNTRY.
WE NEED TO SEND SUPPLIES SO THAT OTHER NATIONS DON'T FALL TO BLATANT AGGRESSION.
MOST AMERICANS AGREE WITH ME ON A BIPARTISAN BASIS.
THE US SENATE JUST VOTED 70 TO 29 IN FAVOR ON A AID BILL.
HOWEVER, THERE IS CONCERN THAT THE US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES WILL KILL THE BILL BECAUSE SOME EXTREMISTS OPPOSE IT. I RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT THIS COUNCIL CONSIDER SENDING A RESOLUTION TO CONGRESS A RESOLUTION IN SUPPORT OF THE AID BILL.
I REQUEST THAT A FAIR BE CONSIDERED ON AN EXPEDITED BASIS, WHY ON AN EXPEDITED BASIS, BECAUSE PEOPLE'S LIVES DEPEND UPON IT. WITHOUT OUR SUPPORT, THIS WAR COULD BE OVER IN MONTHS WITH THE RESULT THAT WE SHOULD NOT SUPPORT.
THANK YOU. THAT'S MY FAIR REQUEST.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU COUNCILMEMBER.
THANK YOU. HAPPY BIRTHDAY, COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS.
AND I YIELD THE REST OF MY TIME BACK TO MY COLLEAGUES.
[03:20:02]
HOW ABOUT THE BIRTHDAY COUNCIL MEMBER? YAY! IT'S MY BIRTHDAY.THANK YOU SO MUCH TO COUNCIL MEMBER SWEET AND HOUSE FOR ACCOMPANY ME TO THE BLACK RENAISSANCE.
IT WAS A GOOD TIME, AND EVERYBODY WAS ALL DRESSED UP, AND WE HAD SUCH A GREAT TIME.
AND SO HOPEFULLY NEXT YEAR, YOU CAN ALL JOIN US.
IT'S JUST A GREAT EVENT, AND IT'S A NICE WAY TO KIND OF END BLACK HISTORY MONTH.
AND SO IT'S ALWAYS THE LAST SATURDAY IN FEBRUARY.
SO GET YOUR DANCING SHOES READY AND COME JOIN US.
WE HAVE A HOUSING AND WE HAVE A CLIMATE.
AND I'M JUST WONDERING IF BY SOME CHANCE, ALL OF OUR COMMISSIONS UNDERSTAND THOSE PLANS AND IF THEY ARE MAKING SURE THAT THEIR WORK, ADDRESSES THOSE PLANS AND SUPPORTS THOSE PLANS.
AND I'M JUST ASKING THE QUESTION.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING FOR US TO THINK ABOUT AND TO DECIDE IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT AT SOME POINT.
BUT IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE'VE GOT 28 COMMISSIONS, I THINK.
IS THAT RIGHT? SOMEBODY, 28 COMMISSIONS, SOMEBODY.
AND THEY'RE DOING A LOT OF WORK.
AND IF THEIR WORK IS NOT SUPPORTING OUR TWO EMERGENCIES, THEN THAT'S A CONCERN.
AND SO WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S HAPPENING.
SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER MATTHEWS.
AND I HOPE YOU HAVE A GOOD STIR FRY SHRIMP, SHRIMP, RICE.
YOU. AND THERE'S NOTHING FROM ME.
CITY MANAGER? NO THANK YOU, MAYOR.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS.
AND WE WILL SEE EACH OTHER VERY SOON.
AND WE ARE ADJOURNED.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.